If you are going to require anything, it should be to read (and understand) the
second amendment which specifies when it is applicable. Since we have a standing
army, we don't need or have a militia. Since a militia is not necessary for
security, the right to keep and bear arms does not exist. The constitution does
not prevent new laws limiting gun ownership at this time.
@the truth (or anyone else):If you'll indulge a little more on
the militia question... I'm genuinely curious as to how it works.Say there is a government action someone perceives as tyrannical. Let's
say there's a Ten Commandments plaque on a rock in the town square that the
ACLU sued to remove. The city agrees to comply with the court order. A city
worker with a backhoe is scheduled to come at 10:00 Tuesday to haul it away.
Some residents see this as the tyrannical workings of an activist judge. They
assemble at the square, armed, to defend the plaque from the poor guy on the
backhoe. The sheriff comes to enforce the court order. In this scenario, are
the citizens the militia? Are they justified in shooting the sheriff in the
defense of religious expression? Or are they just petty hooligans? What if one
of them stalks the judge and shoots him? Is it murder or insurrection?Do the Black Panthers count as militia? What about the Weather Underground or
the Symbionese Liberation Army? They were fighting government tyranny.Who decides? Who gets to say I'm defending liberty, but your're
just a criminal?
worf @6:15 pm: "Lets list some items which kill more Americans then gun
ownership... automobile accidents"1) So, by your logic, we
shouldn't do anything to reduce cancer deaths because more people die of
heart disease?2) The more relevant car/gun comparison in the current
debate is intentional deaths (i.e. murder). Very few people use cars as an
instrument for killing. Most auto fatalities are unintended.the
truth @ 6:21 pm: "a well regulated militia meant meant a functioning
militia..."Continuing my previous thought: Would a militia keep
a membership roster (i.e. registration)? I'm fine with the idea of a
militia as individuals and with gun ownership as an individual right, but how is
the militia manifested in practice? What does it look like? How does it defend
against tyranny? Does the individual make the determination that a government
action requires armed response, or does it come from some recognized authority?
Were the southern citizens committees killing civil rights workers acting as
militias under the umbrella of the 2nd Amendment? They were, after all,
standing up for states rights in the face of federal power. Was the Kennedy
assassination a militia action?Continuing the
worf @6:15pm: "Lets list some items which kill more Americans then gun
ownership..."And yet the sale and consumption of alcohol are
strictly regulated, driving an automobile is highly regulated (licensing,
training, insurance, speed limits, etc.), and so on. Regulation is routinely
used to reduce the harm of activities and products.the truth
@6:21pm: "SO a well regulated militia meant meant a functioning militia, one
that capable of doing the job..."What does a functioning
(capable of performing) militia look like? Would it have inventory controls for
its arms (gotta know what you have and where it is)? Would it have proficiency
standards for its members (can't win the battle if you can't hit the
bad guys)? Would there be a command structure and organization? Would there be
mandatory training? Would it have policies to prevent the weapons inventory
from getting into the wrong hands? Does ANY organization that uses arms to
achieve its ends (from the Crips to Delta Force) not have all of these controls
on its members? Would a functioning (well-regulated) militia have, you know,
regulations?county mom @9:02pm: "We are well on our way to
becoming pre-WWII Germany..."Godwin.
My grandpa is eighty nine years old. I asked him one day if he would like to
have a gun in his home for protection. He looked at me and he said,
"I've been carrying a dead weapon for a while son".
LDS Lib,How does socialism and universal military service connect?
Spring City has a low crime rate because it is a small town in a rural area
where everybody knows everybody. Just like very other small town in rural Utah.
Guns have little or nothing to do with it. Anyone who has lived in a town like
this will know what I mean. The city council's actions are designed to make
a political statement, not to empower residents to protect themselves from a
non-existent crime spree.
common sense is alive and well in Spring City
Looks like the radical left has shown up in droves, some claiming we're
paranoid.Really? Have you paid any attention to the news today? Joe
Biden stated today that "The president is going to act...There are
executives orders, there's executive action that can be taken."There is good reason for me and you to be paranoid. When the Russian and
Chinese governments both called for the president to take away our guns and he
today shows his intention to do so, we should be alarmed.Further, it
should cause concern among Americans to know that many government agencies and
departments have purchased during recent months 1.6 billion rounds of hollow
point ammo. No explanation sought by the media.This is one issue
that most Americans know is critical to our freedom. Without our ability to
revolt, tyranny is inevitable. Our enemies outside and in know it. Further, the enemies within knows and expects that we will not let an
executive order taking this freedom away go down without a fight. Thus, the need
for 1.6 billion rounds of ammo. Americans also see the fight coming. For that
reason, gun and ammo sales have gone crazy.Get ready.
iron&clayRIVERTON, UTThe 'Proclamation to the world'
from the Church Presidency and Apostles states that "By divine design,
fathers are to preside over their families... and are responsible to provide the
necessities of life and protection for their families.========My goodness - you really twisted that one around backwards to fit your
agenda iron&clay...I protect my children from the world by
teaching them the Gospel.FYI - Your "GUNS" won't protect your
family from the World.BTW iron&clay -- I also served in the
United States Military for 6 years. Did you?
Maybe we should just become a theocracy because the one place nobody in this
state seems to want to put guns is the BYU campus.
a gun in every household is only a good idea if EACH gun has a mandatory lock.
think of children who play with their parents' guns and accidentally kill
another child. gun owners need to be responsible to lock their guns.
To "airnaut" Did you see the report that Planned Parenthood performed
393,000 abortions last year. That means that there were more children killed by
Planned Parenthood than by guns.Lets ban Planned Parenthood since
they kill more children than guns do.
This Spring City proposal is a joke to elevate the rage of left wing extremists
and Democrats who take themselves so seriously as control freads. I expect we
will have a hundred additional new anti firearm laws proposed which only law
abiding people will be forced to obey. Spring City is like the
skunks which inhabit all rural areas, who have just sprayed an intriding
enemy.....Funny. Come on Democrate, get a life, laugh along with us.
Number of children accidentally shot in their own homes in utah 2012 -- 3Number of children massacred by a wild lunatic with an assault rifle, criminal
breaking into their home, or the American Government or United nation invading
it. -- Zero.More children are shot and killed each and every year by
guns their parent had in the home, than all the other wild myths and
stories the scared and the paranoid can conjure up - combined.BTW -
one of those kids was the son of a Police officer.
We are not Brits UK! We drove them from our shores years ago. We are advocates
of a sacred Constitution which makes us different and freedom loving. This
Spring City thing is just an in your face statement directed toward the anti gun
crowd on the East and West Coasts. Not really all that serious, just a way to
get their point of view across in a country style, unsophistocated manner.
The 'Proclamation to the world' from the Church Presidency and
Apostles states that "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their
families... and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and
protection for their families.From the above statement, homeowners with
guns is the best way to protect families from a mob who would want a tyrant to
take away a families protection so the mob could more easily rape, plunder and
pillage.The history of the church in Missouri is an example where the law
abiding homeowners were forced to give up their firearms by the government and
then the mobs were able to steal their property and force them out of the state.
This is a very, very good concept. For years, I have said that the armed citizen
is identical to being trained in CPR. It is what one may do in the absence of
first responders. One has not only a civil right to be armed, but also the
public policy, public interest, legal doctrines and other latitude in
self-defense or defense of another. The preparedness concept alone makes this a
very welcome and useful policy throughout any interruption of services. Thank you, Sir, for your service.
Midwest Mom,Protecting yourself is snuffing out life? You like
protecting people who would harm you or your family?county mom,You hit the nail on the head. I have an old German friend who would
totally agree with you.
Isn't it interesting that so many who claim to be "pro life" are so
willing to be constantly in possession of the ability to instantly snuff it out.
Wow are we a foolish people. We are well on our way to becoming pre-WWII
Germany.You know, Lets get ourselves in huge debt. Lets take away
peoples rights to pray, display Christian beliefs or any belief for that matter.
Lets vilify the wealthy. Lets take away peoples right to defend
themselves and their homes. Lets vote to give the current President an
unending term, no limits. Lets allow him to thumb his nose at our highest
court. Lets let him disrespect our House of Representatives, you know the
ones who actually represent us. Lets let him make shady deals with foreign
leaders. Lets let him disrespect our military and not allow them a
vote.Lets let him create regulations and treat them like laws.Lets
give him a national system where he can choose who lives and dies. Then
lets let him control a national system that has collected guns & ammo and
spys on the citizenry telling them this group is here to keep them safe. Yep, we are headed down almost the same pathetic path! And the liberals all
defend these actions.
Most of the crime in Spring City happens when people are away from their homes,
or they forget and leave their purse in their car or their keys in their car or
trucks. Every once in awhile, the police remind us that we should lock our homes
when we leave, or even when we're there.But the idea that we're
all a bunch of armed militia holding off the bad guys is ridiculous.The
fact is that most of the people here are good people who mostly don't
bother their neighbors except with an occasional overly-enthusiastic rooster or
coon hounds who bark at all hours. The gas station had a short-lived string of
burglaries where the thieves stole as much beer as they could carry.I'm sure there's a certain amount of domestic abuse, which can only
be exaccerbated by having a gun at home, and there certainly is drug use and
other stupidity.But to say that for the most part we have low crime here
because the bad guys know we're all armed is beyond silly.
@DanO@Craig ClarkI hate to burst your bubble,, but "well
regulated" does NOT mean, in circa 1789 use of the word "regulate"
to make regulations, laws, and otherwise control things."well
regulated" meant well functioning or working.a regulated gun was
a functioning gun, a gun that was working like it should.SO a well
regulated militia meant meant a functioning militia, one that capable of doing
the job,The right to bear arms was guaranteed to the people, not to
the state nor a standing army.And this right was intended to secure
a free state, not for hunting nor personal defense, they went without question,
but to guarantee this nation and each individual state will remain free from
tyranny.This city got it right.The left got it wrong,
comments against are looney and irrational, based on unfounded fear of gun
ownership and ignorance of what the 2nd amendment actually says.
Hmmm? Lets list some items which kill more Americans then gun ownership:* alcohol* automobile accidents* junk food* stress
caused by debt* drugs* government starting warsWhy all
the focus on guns?
The more guns we have around, the more gun deaths there will be, by accident and
by impulse. Kids shooting themselves and others, adults doing the same. You may
say, well,if somebody is going to kill or hurt themselves or another person and
they can't get to a gun easily, they'll find another way. Sometimes yes but sometimes no. Nobody ever thinks it will happen to
them or their family, but it does. People shoot their own kids when they come in
through a window, little kids accidentally shoot friends and family members.
Teenagers, (the invulnerable) kill each other by accident and by impulse.And if you keep your gun in a safe and a bad guy comes into your bedroom some
night, will you say, excuse me Mr. Rapist while I unlock my gunsafe and get my
gun out to defend myself and with any luck kill you. ?Who of the families
of those victims of accidental death would not do ANYTHING to go back and change
what happened, but they cannot.You think it cannot happen to you or those
you love. You are wrong.
Demisana,I get that crime rates are measured "per capita"
(actually, they are usually measured "per 1,000" or "per
100,000"), so as to make apples-to-apples comparisons possible; only,
they're not (apples-to-apples). On average, crime rates tend to grow at a
slightly disproportionate rate as population increases above a certain number --
somewhere in the tens of thousands, if I recall correctly. Not all of the many
factors that contribute to this phenomenon have been identified; but basically,
it comes down to culture, demographics, and population density.My
point was that an idyllic, pastoral, somewhat-isolated community like Spring
City would be EXPECTED to have a lower crime rate PER CAPITA than somewhere like
Miami or Philadelphia or St. Louis, based on the phenomenon that I mentioned.You can draw your own conclusions regarding how that squares with gun
control/gun advocacy issues.
OldSalt94,".....Control is needed but it should not be mandated
by the government. We as individuals should be able to control
both the right to enforce the Second Amendment and the duty to do so, even
though each successive generation poses unique challenges in applying it to its
times.I totally agree with you on your second point. We have the
right to keep a gun but anyone who does should be aware that a gun kept in the
home is more likely to be used to kill a family member in a domestic quarrel
than an intruder in a home invasion. That's a grim reality that
shouldn't be ignored.
@Midwest Mom, I am glad you shared your opinion...but I have to disagree with
the part about the pro-gun lobby using the tragedy...Most places I watch/read
the news it is the Anti-Gun Lobby that is flaunting all of the tragedies
involving guns to create a legislative action at the highest level of Government
to add more laws on the books, when the ones already there just aren't
being enforced. And why is that...Fast and Furious is one example. Yes there are
accidents in the home, and not just from mishandled weapons. I don't have
the numbers but I would bet that more people die or are injured from falling in
the bath tub or off a ladder or many other common household accidents than there
are gun related Murders. If some one is pushed from a ladder is that different
from a mis-step and accidentally falling? Yet all gun related deaths are lumped
to enhance the chance of sensationalism. Control is needed but it should not be
mandated by the government. We as individuals should be able to control
I have been to and stayed in Spring City multiple times. It is a quaint and
peaceful rural haven for art, recreation and leisure. Now it will be best known
as an arsenal? Spring City is as much a target for armed criminals as Virgin,
Utah (made a UN free zone by a resolution) is threatened by an invasion by the
United Nations. Instead of making us safer, we are merely increasing our
paranoia. I prefer to live with the miniscule chance of being harmed than go
through my life in constant fear of both criminals and under-trained armed
residents, who could easily mistake me, an outsider, as an intruder.
Mountanman,"This has been very entertaining watching liberals go
ballistic (no pun intended) over this story...."______________________________All due credit goes to your side for
handing us tons of ammunition (pun intended) with each shrill outburst.
This has been very entertaining watching liberals go ballistic (no pun intended)
over this story, and they don't even live there! Says a lot doesn't
Let me get this stright...Conservatives say Spring City, UT has a
low crime rate because of guns.Then, the city council [i.e., the
Government] wants to force everyone in town to have a gun in their home.So, Is the gun requirement by the Government to decrease an
already non-existant crime rate in rural setting Spring City, Utah?orto satisfy someone's extreme sense of insecurity and paranoia?BTW -- brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!CHS85Will they be
drafting a resolution to require everyone to go to church? Why not? We have
freedom of religion - why not require it?7:16 a.m. Jan. 8, 2013
Well, there is a difference between having a gun in the home and carrying a
concealed weapon out in public. Perhaps Spring City could enact a Stand Your
Ground Law to facillitate a sense of security among its residents. That way,
anyone who looks different who comes to town can be immediately challenged and
dealt with to the relief of the citizens.For a community with
essentially no crime, generating a fear of immenient crime is great for gun
manufacturers and retailers. Perhaps they need to expand the resolution to
include more lethal weapons because you never know. Maybe someone might come at
them with a grenade launcher. Then real firepower can be requested for the real
reason people want more guns, defense against a democratically-elected
government they don't like. It doesn't matter that the
recent talk about responsible gun legislation targets only a miniscule sector of
the gun and ammunition industry. No one is making an issue out of hunting
rifles and guns in the home for self-defense. The focus is only on
military-type weapons for mass killing which have a high profit margin in the
A Novel Idea. Some are trying to take guns off the street. Where and when is
the next movie theater or school??? Would it be in a place where more people
carried guns? Teachers in school, movie theater workers. Hire more trained
guards? Who's to say the guard will handle it appropriately. The concept
of more having guns is going in the right direction. Especially in a society
that's decaying in their morality and degenerate. Right to bear arms is a
RIGHT, doesn't necessarily need to be law. It not the gun
that's problem, it's the one holding it. If you want to fight guns,
try taking some of that energy toward those degenerates. What if all teachers
had a gun in their room?? I think the degenerates are smart enough to think
twice to go there.
MountanmanHayden, IDSwitzerland does the same thing and guess what
the crime rate is there compared to Detroit, Chicago, New York and most other
American cities where gun laws are strict and only criminals can own guns?6:47 a.m. Jan. 8, 2013============ It's
because Switzerland is SOCIALIST, andrequires 100% military
service.If you want to use Switzerland as the example to follow, then you must follow ALL of it.Cherry-picking to suit your agenda
is living a lie.
@DemisanaSo we can own firearms in the UK, gotcha. Thankfully few of
us actually do. Also firing those activated replicas more often than not injures
At least it's just a resolution and not a nutty city ordinance making gun
ownership compulsory like we've seen in other communities in America
attempt to do. Still, it doesn't help dispel a growing perception of gun
advocacy as something that has taken a turn towards fanaticism. To answer
reasonable gun control proposals with a posture of in-your-face defiance gives
greater weight to calls for updated gun control measures."A
well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State....."The original intent couldn't be any plainer,
could it? The Second Amendment itself opens by stating its sole purpose. The
ghosts of the Founding Father must be grimacing at the specter of how a right
that they meant to guarantee a well-regulated militia now does little more than
accommodate a well-armed mob.
I wonder how many who support compulsory gun ownership are against the
Affordable Health Care Act. Problem is, no one in my vast extended family has
ever needed a gun to defend themselves but all have needed affordable access to
healthcare, at some point in their lives. Access to healthcare is clearly more
urgent.Fear doesn't build, it destroys. The result of fear is
to flee the cause of anxiety, not move constructively towards a specific good.
You see that in animals. Fear mongers don't help you, they inspire phobia
in order to control, or get gain. I find it disgusting that the pro-gun agenda
has used the tragedy of murdered children and teachers to further their cause.
Follow the money. There is profit in fear.
Oh, boy. Crime rates are calculated as the number of crimes per capita. I.e.,
a low population has few total numbers, a large population higher total numbers,
but the rates make it possible to compare apples to apples.And this
highly informed comment "I'm not against guns, though I don't see
the point or need to own semi-automatic rifles." Almost all guns sold today
are semi-automatic. Every gun used by a cop or a soldier is semi-automatic. It
just means that every time you pull the trigger, another round is loaded into
the chamber, ready for the next time you pull the trigger. Trust me, if I have
a home invader high on meth or something, I want to be able to pull the trigger
again quickly if he doesn't get the idea the first time. Rifles are easier
to use than pistols, and more accurate. And with the correct ammo, also less
likely to go through walls.
Re: British gun laws - the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 criminalised most
semi-automatic long-barrelled weapons. The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997
criminalised private possession of most handguns having a calibre over .22, and
in 1997 the incoming Labour government introduced the Firearms (Amendment) (No.
2) Act, which extended this to most handguns with a calibre of .22 (there are
exceptions for some antique handguns and black-powder revolvers.) A firearms
certificate issued by the police is required for all weapons and ammunition
except air weapons of modest power. Shotguns with a capacity of three rounds or
less (up to guns with a magazine holding no more than two rounds, in addition to
one in the chamber) are subject to less stringent licensing requirements than
other firearms; shotguns with higher capacity require a Firearms Certificate.
Possession of a live firearms round can lead to severe penalties. Shotgun
cartridges can be possessed by anybody over the age of 17 but a Shotgun Licence
is required.Criminals have maintained a steady flow of smuggled guns
from eastern Europe, exhibition weapons reactivated in illegal
"factories" run by underworld dealers, and guns stolen from private
collections. Between 1989/2009 gun violence doubled.
To any of you who believe that America can or will somehow get rid of guns
someday, that could only happen if we became a totalitarian police state. Like
for instance Nazi Germany. Getting rid of guns in America would be like getting
rid of illegal aliens. Possible, but few Americans would want to pay the price
to do it. So with that reality to face, deal with what to do with an armed
America. My advise is to make gun crime a manditatory 20 to life prison
sentence with no parole. The one government program that I would like to see an
increase of funding for is more prisons. If we have to keep one third of our
population locked up because they are criminals, that's fine with me. I
think that kind of punishment would eventually result in deterrence and
ultimately less gun crime as well as other crime in general. The fact that we
as honest citizens have to live in our communities and walk the streets with
criminals who are out on early parole because of overcrowding is a large part of
the reason we want guns in the first place.
Blame "Hollywood". Blame violent video games. Blame the mentally
ill.Go ahead. BUT, other developed countries watch our movies, play
our video games, and have mentally-ill people.They do not have our rate of
violence and murder.When Gabby Giffords was shot, there were three
concealed weapons carriers in the audience who did NOTHING until an elderly man
and woman physically jumped on top of Loughner and stopped the shooting. Then,
one of the CCW jumped on top of them.THEN, the man who was holding
down Loughner was almost shot by another "good guy" who was walking out
of the Walgreens store next door. This "hero" could have started a
This kind of thinking is the end-product of fear. In the United States, over
many years of research, it is clear that homes with guns in them are twelve
times more likely to have a gun death of a family member than homes that do not
have a gun in them. Accidental death, and suicides are the leading causes.
Spring City is a quiet, peaceful, community. Crime is very low. Fear will take
freedom more quickly than the U.S. government. When fear creates this kind of
thinking, freedom is lost. When you lock yourself in your home, clutching a
gun, forced on you by your fear-mongering local government, you have lost a
substantial amount of freedom. Think this through. It is a foolish idea based
on unfounded fear.
So if violent crime is deterred by every home having a gun, doesn't it
follow that we could deter DUI's by every home having a bar?
Mountainman, Switzerland in many provinces has started requiring households to
keep the state owned rifles in a town locker because they also had a mass
shooting,home shooting, suicides and "accidents".Many of the
gun enthusiast's favorite stories are just that.Israel has also
stopped letting soldiers take guns home because of their soldier suicide
problem. Turns out that without the gun, not too many commit suicide.
The resolution defies rational discussion.
The Scots had such laws in the 16th century (and following) something to the
effect every adult male had to have his sword and other weapons at the ready, so
as to respond to the clan Chief's call within hours of summons. I believe
adult was defined as who could lift a claymore (a sturdy double handled sword).
See Sir Walter Scot's history of Scotland, sometimes calles Tales of a
Grandfather (circa 1826-1830)South Carolina had a law in the 18th
century that every voting adult male who had a pistol had to be armed at all
times, including Sundays when they went to church meetings!The
Minutemen in New England had their muskets at the ready at all times (18th
More misinformation from MM when he says "Switzerland requires the same
thing."If this wasn't such a serious subject, it would be
hilarious that the Republicans who decry any kind of government regulation want
to to do this.
Read the article instead of just the headline and you will find that the city
council is recommending gun safety and training as the main thrust of their
ordinance.Homeowners are specific as the basic unit of gun ownership
for protection of family and property.
"Spring City has a low crime rate for two reasons - the knowledge that most
people are prepared to defend themselves and the community will support them
doing so."-Demisana. . . or, perhaps more likely, Spring
City has a low crime rate because it is an out-of-the-way rural farming
community of less that 1000 people, and is over 50 miles away from the Wasatch
Front.By comparison, Newtown, CT (population 27,000), is about 45
miles from the Hartford, CT metro area (population 1.2 million), and just over
60 miles from New York City. Aurora, CO (population 325,000) and Columbine, CO
(population 24,000) are both suburbs of Denver. And, Clackamas/Happy Valley, OR
(population 14,000) is a suburb of Portland.While it is not the sole
factor, and correlation certainly does not equal causation, there is a strong
correlation between higher crime rates and lots of people in close proximity
(read: higher populations).Just sayin' . . .
Oh my liberal citizens how the Constitution muddies up the water. Other
countries cultures? Who cares. We are who we are. " He who trades freedom
for safety get neither. Good for Spring City. Yippy Ky Yay!!!
Esquire. Next time you are about to be a victim of a crime, don't call the
police because they will show up with guns!
The same people who don't want government to tell them what to do now wants
to tell people what to do. This is madness! Don't you people see the
Do these people still think we live in the wild west? Apparently. I'm not
against guns, though I don't see the point or need to own semi-automatic
rifles. Switzerland has extremely low crime for a whole lot of other reasons
besides everyone owning a rifle. See above posts.The fact remains,
the US has 3.7 gun homicides per 100,000 people. Greece is 0.59, Norway is .04,
The UK is 0.04, Germany is 0.06, Japan is 0.02..... Do you see a trend here?
Clearly what we are doing IS NOT WORKING. Yet you can't get that through
people's heads, they continue to believe that the solution is more and more
guns. I'm sure there are other reasons that contribute to the huge
disparity, hollywood culture, etc..... but to look at those numbers and believe
that the solution is more guns is just ludicrous.
The dumbing-down of America at its finest! What a rediculous proposal and shame
on those who find this to be a solution to a real problem.
Switzerland also has the fourth highest homicide rate according to PolitiFact
(not exactly left-leaning either). The reason why for this gun training in
Switzerland is because they don't have a standing army and rely on "a
well regulated militia."
HB; this was not an ordinance, or a law, did you read the article? NFISG;
"Will a penalty be initiated for those who choose to refuse to join in their
irrational insanity?" Sounds just like nationally mandated health care
@DemisanaExcept crime has been dropping in the UK for years but dont
let facts stand in your way.One fact you cant escape though, Utah
has a higher rate of murder than the UK and overall the US has 4 times the
murder rate of the UK.Whatever you are currently doing sure aint
working.Also how do some of my friends legally own rifles and
shotguns here? I thought you said the government confiscated them all?
In Bowling for Columbine, the great Michael Moore displayed a town in Arizona
that required it's citizens to own a gun. Most people laughed and shook
their heads. Once again--(and again and again) Moore is proven right in his
belief that our own fear will be our undoing. This is sad, childish and a knee
jerk response to tragedy by leaders with the wisdom that would have been thought
of as immature in a Junior High School Student Body Officer only a few years
A waste of time for all involved. Republicans seem to specialize in this kind
of work; making laws/resolutions that are completely pointless. It's
telling that the council member with the original idea wanted it to be a law,
got voted down by his peers, and THEN comes out with old "big government is
bad" line. It seems to only be bad when they don't get what they
want.Re: Allen, since when do burglars know if there is a gun or
not in a home they rob now? I think one of the hallmarks of home robbery in
America is that the person doing the robbing is generally not the brightest
bloke and usually doesn't think about whether or not a gun is in the target
Bravo for the city leaders of Spring City, a most pisturesque and nostalgic
place. This is not a requirement, it is a recommendation and if it results in
the residents getting more training and practice to be responsible gun users,
that will be a great example. All of you who think restricting gun
ownership will help, please remember that the horrible incidents that have
happened with guns have usually happened in "gun free" zones.
Lanza's mother made a terrible mistake in making guns accessible to a
mentally ill son, and the lesson from that is that parents need to keep their
guns locked up. He wasn't a responsible adult, his mentality was that of a
troubled child. Plenty of parents wish there were better resources for dealing
with children with mental problems.
Mountainman,I've lived in Switzerland (not a missionary but as
an expat). The reason their crime rate is low is because of their total culture.
They are a much more controlled society, less given to free expression and the
extremes we have in the USA. They do not own handguns. Every man serves in the
military and has a rifle which they use in training every year. That is the
extent of gun ownership and use. They rarely hunt, do not have concealed
weapons, and have a stronger sense of community and trust in their government
and police to protect them.I can tell you my Swiss friends (both LDS
and non LDS) are horrified at the gun culture here and perplexed at our
inability to solve it.
Mountainman,Switzerland also has universal health care. Those with
mental illness can get help without going into bankruptcy. Switzerland also has
some of the most lenient prisons in the world where inmates are allowed to have
cell phones. And yet their rate of recidivism is much lower than the US. By
the way, only specific Swiss military units are allowed to have ammo in their
home. The average Swiss citizen has their firearm at home, but no ammo. The
sale of ammunition – including Gw Pat.90 rounds for army-issue assault
rifles – is subsidized by the Swiss government and made available at the
many shooting ranges patronized by both private citizens and members of the
militia. There is a regulatory requirement that ammunition sold at ranges must
be used there.
A similar law was passed in Kennesaw, Georgia in 1982. Between 1982
and 2005, overall crime DECREASED 50% in that city. And, Kennesaw now has the
lowest crime rate in the county.Thus we have actual evidence that
requiring guns (with an exception for those who object) does not result in more
crime, more accidents, or anything bad, but does result in less crime.And, on the other hand, we have firm evidence from Chicago and Washington, SC,
that total gun bans do not result in less killings, less overall crime, or less
violence of any type.Sorry, liberals, nothing valid to complain
about with a town that is doing something that works, even if it goes against
your unfounded prejudices.Hurrah for Spring City, a breath of
Um, it's a resolution - meaning an official recommendation - not a law. No
penalties, no requirements. And if you think people are paranoid - see England,
Australia and South Africa, all of which in recent years confiscated the guns of
the people, and all of which have seen a large rise in crime since then. In our
country - see Chicago, which has some of the most draconian gun laws and also
one of the worst crime rates. Gun control laws take guns out of the hands of
the law abiding and embolden the criminals.Spring City has a low
crime rate for two reasons - the knowledge that most people are prepared to
defend themselves and the community will support them doing so.
Will they be drafting a resolution to require everyone to go to church? Why
not? We have freedom of religion - why not require it?
So far the town council is showing signs of common sense in trying to have the
new regulation be a recommendation and not a requirement. Burglars won't
know who has a gun and who doesn't, and that is good.
"Crime is virtually nonexistent in Spring City," she wrote. "Maybe
people could actually lock their homes if they don't feel safe."
Priceless, yes lock your door is a good start. If you want to have
fun go out there and ask the people if their town is safe. They, like most of
rural America will burst with pride of the low crime rates and how they feel so
safe they don't even lock their doors in case their neighbor wants to
borrow a cup of flour.But, get them on politics and it's all
about about how the democrats are coming for their guns that they need for
personal protection. They're preparing for Armageddon which they will start
themselves to fulfill their own ungodly prophecies.
Switzerland does the same thing and guess what the crime rate is there compared
to Detroit, Chicago, New York and most other American cities where gun laws are
strict and only criminals can own guns?
Ah...I love home.
I spent eight years in the Army and served in Iraq. Negligent discharges are
real and happen more than many people like to admit. Ask any veteran police
officer. There are some people that should not be allowed to have a fork.
Asking a very large group of civilians to all own firearms is a bad idea.
People like this are the reason we have Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc. Don't you
get it?? The Lanza's also believed this way and took at as far as having
multiple semi-automatic weapons. I'm not against guns, but paranoia has
played a part in our gun owning, violent culture. We think we have to solve all
our own problems. I don't want to live in a society where everyone is armed
to the teeth and thinks they can take the law into their own hands. Also, a little bit of sporadic training is not going to cover it. Even
seasoned veterans of combat, when they are home for a while, lose their edge and
don't react they way they need to. This is not like training to rent a
snowmobile. Since an interesting culture in Utah that preaches
loving your enemy, turning one's cheek, etc., and at the same time, kills
for sport and wants everyone to pack heat under their coat and under their
The infamous paranoid of our society are super spooked that someone is coming to
take away their guns.So now they want to take it a step further and
require that we all have guns in our homes.Will a penalty be initiated for
those who choose to refuse to join in their irrational insanity?
I believe in the right to keep and bear arms but I also believe in personal
freedom not to exercise that right...