A gun in every household? Utah town drafting a resolution


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  • HotGlobe SAN RAFAEL, CA
    Jan. 25, 2013 10:23 a.m.

    If you are going to require anything, it should be to read (and understand) the second amendment which specifies when it is applicable. Since we have a standing army, we don't need or have a militia. Since a militia is not necessary for security, the right to keep and bear arms does not exist. The constitution does not prevent new laws limiting gun ownership at this time.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 5:24 p.m.

    @the truth (or anyone else):

    If you'll indulge a little more on the militia question... I'm genuinely curious as to how it works.

    Say there is a government action someone perceives as tyrannical. Let's say there's a Ten Commandments plaque on a rock in the town square that the ACLU sued to remove. The city agrees to comply with the court order. A city worker with a backhoe is scheduled to come at 10:00 Tuesday to haul it away. Some residents see this as the tyrannical workings of an activist judge. They assemble at the square, armed, to defend the plaque from the poor guy on the backhoe. The sheriff comes to enforce the court order. In this scenario, are the citizens the militia? Are they justified in shooting the sheriff in the defense of religious expression? Or are they just petty hooligans? What if one of them stalks the judge and shoots him? Is it murder or insurrection?

    Do the Black Panthers count as militia? What about the Weather Underground or the Symbionese Liberation Army? They were fighting government tyranny.

    Who decides? Who gets to say I'm defending liberty, but your're just a criminal?

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    worf @6:15 pm: "Lets list some items which kill more Americans then gun ownership... automobile accidents"

    1) So, by your logic, we shouldn't do anything to reduce cancer deaths because more people die of heart disease?
    2) The more relevant car/gun comparison in the current debate is intentional deaths (i.e. murder). Very few people use cars as an instrument for killing. Most auto fatalities are unintended.

    the truth @ 6:21 pm: "a well regulated militia meant meant a functioning militia..."

    Continuing my previous thought: Would a militia keep a membership roster (i.e. registration)? I'm fine with the idea of a militia as individuals and with gun ownership as an individual right, but how is the militia manifested in practice? What does it look like? How does it defend against tyranny? Does the individual make the determination that a government action requires armed response, or does it come from some recognized authority? Were the southern citizens committees killing civil rights workers acting as militias under the umbrella of the 2nd Amendment? They were, after all, standing up for states rights in the face of federal power. Was the Kennedy assassination a militia action?

    Continuing the

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    worf @6:15pm: "Lets list some items which kill more Americans then gun ownership..."

    And yet the sale and consumption of alcohol are strictly regulated, driving an automobile is highly regulated (licensing, training, insurance, speed limits, etc.), and so on. Regulation is routinely used to reduce the harm of activities and products.

    the truth @6:21pm: "SO a well regulated militia meant meant a functioning militia, one that capable of doing the job..."

    What does a functioning (capable of performing) militia look like? Would it have inventory controls for its arms (gotta know what you have and where it is)? Would it have proficiency standards for its members (can't win the battle if you can't hit the bad guys)? Would there be a command structure and organization? Would there be mandatory training? Would it have policies to prevent the weapons inventory from getting into the wrong hands? Does ANY organization that uses arms to achieve its ends (from the Crips to Delta Force) not have all of these controls on its members? Would a functioning (well-regulated) militia have, you know, regulations?

    county mom @9:02pm: "We are well on our way to becoming pre-WWII Germany..."


  • tlaulu Taylorsville, Utah
    Jan. 10, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    My grandpa is eighty nine years old. I asked him one day if he would like to have a gun in his home for protection. He looked at me and he said, "I've been carrying a dead weapon for a while son".

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 5:41 p.m.

    LDS Lib,
    How does socialism and universal military service connect?

  • Hamfischer American Fork, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    Spring City has a low crime rate because it is a small town in a rural area where everybody knows everybody. Just like very other small town in rural Utah. Guns have little or nothing to do with it. Anyone who has lived in a town like this will know what I mean. The city council's actions are designed to make a political statement, not to empower residents to protect themselves from a non-existent crime spree.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:58 p.m.

    common sense is alive and well in Spring City

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    Looks like the radical left has shown up in droves, some claiming we're paranoid.

    Really? Have you paid any attention to the news today? Joe Biden stated today that "The president is going to act...There are executives orders, there's executive action that can be taken."

    There is good reason for me and you to be paranoid. When the Russian and Chinese governments both called for the president to take away our guns and he today shows his intention to do so, we should be alarmed.

    Further, it should cause concern among Americans to know that many government agencies and departments have purchased during recent months 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammo. No explanation sought by the media.

    This is one issue that most Americans know is critical to our freedom. Without our ability to revolt, tyranny is inevitable. Our enemies outside and in know it.

    Further, the enemies within knows and expects that we will not let an executive order taking this freedom away go down without a fight. Thus, the need for 1.6 billion rounds of ammo. Americans also see the fight coming. For that reason, gun and ammo sales have gone crazy.

    Get ready.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 9, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    The 'Proclamation to the world' from the Church Presidency and Apostles states that "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families... and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families.


    My goodness - you really twisted that one around backwards to fit your agenda iron&clay...

    I protect my children from the world by teaching them the Gospel.
    FYI - Your "GUNS" won't protect your family from the World.

    BTW iron&clay -- I also served in the United States Military for 6 years. Did you?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 12:26 p.m.

    Maybe we should just become a theocracy because the one place nobody in this state seems to want to put guns is the BYU campus.

  • taichik provo, ut
    Jan. 9, 2013 12:16 p.m.

    a gun in every household is only a good idea if EACH gun has a mandatory lock. think of children who play with their parents' guns and accidentally kill another child. gun owners need to be responsible to lock their guns.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    To "airnaut" Did you see the report that Planned Parenthood performed 393,000 abortions last year. That means that there were more children killed by Planned Parenthood than by guns.

    Lets ban Planned Parenthood since they kill more children than guns do.

  • Elcapitan Ivins, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    This Spring City proposal is a joke to elevate the rage of left wing extremists and Democrats who take themselves so seriously as control freads. I expect we will have a hundred additional new anti firearm laws proposed which only law abiding people will be forced to obey.

    Spring City is like the skunks which inhabit all rural areas, who have just sprayed an intriding enemy.....Funny. Come on Democrate, get a life, laugh along with us.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    Number of children accidentally shot in their own homes in utah 2012 -- 3
    Number of children massacred by a wild lunatic with an assault rifle, criminal breaking into their home, or the American Government or United nation invading it. -- Zero.

    More children are shot and killed each and every year by guns their parent had in the home,
    than all the other wild myths and stories the scared and the paranoid can conjure up - combined.

    BTW - one of those kids was the son of a Police officer.

  • Elcapitan Ivins, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:30 a.m.

    We are not Brits UK! We drove them from our shores years ago. We are advocates of a sacred Constitution which makes us different and freedom loving. This Spring City thing is just an in your face statement directed toward the anti gun crowd on the East and West Coasts. Not really all that serious, just a way to get their point of view across in a country style, unsophistocated manner.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    The 'Proclamation to the world' from the Church Presidency and Apostles states that "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families... and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families.
    From the above statement, homeowners with guns is the best way to protect families from a mob who would want a tyrant to take away a families protection so the mob could more easily rape, plunder and pillage.
    The history of the church in Missouri is an example where the law abiding homeowners were forced to give up their firearms by the government and then the mobs were able to steal their property and force them out of the state.

  • EMSONE Los Angeles, CA
    Jan. 9, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    This is a very, very good concept. For years, I have said that the armed citizen is identical to being trained in CPR. It is what one may do in the absence of first responders. One has not only a civil right to be armed, but also the public policy, public interest, legal doctrines and other latitude in self-defense or defense of another. The preparedness concept alone makes this a very welcome and useful policy throughout any interruption of services.

    Thank you, Sir, for your service.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:55 p.m.

    Midwest Mom,

    Protecting yourself is snuffing out life? You like protecting people who would harm you or your family?

    county mom,

    You hit the nail on the head. I have an old German friend who would totally agree with you.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:45 p.m.

    Isn't it interesting that so many who claim to be "pro life" are so willing to be constantly in possession of the ability to instantly snuff it out.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:02 p.m.

    Wow are we a foolish people. We are well on our way to becoming pre-WWII Germany.
    You know, Lets get ourselves in huge debt.
    Lets take away peoples rights to pray, display Christian beliefs or any belief for that matter. Lets vilify the wealthy.
    Lets take away peoples right to defend themselves and their homes.
    Lets vote to give the current President an unending term, no limits.
    Lets allow him to thumb his nose at our highest court.
    Lets let him disrespect our House of Representatives, you know the ones who actually represent us.
    Lets let him make shady deals with foreign leaders.
    Lets let him disrespect our military and not allow them a vote.
    Lets let him create regulations and treat them like laws.
    Lets give him a national system where he can choose who lives and dies.
    Then lets let him control a national system that has collected guns & ammo and spys on the citizenry telling them this group is here to keep them safe.
    Yep, we are headed down almost the same pathetic path! And the liberals all defend these actions.

  • Sophie 62 spring city, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    Most of the crime in Spring City happens when people are away from their homes, or they forget and leave their purse in their car or their keys in their car or trucks. Every once in awhile, the police remind us that we should lock our homes when we leave, or even when we're there.
    But the idea that we're all a bunch of armed militia holding off the bad guys is ridiculous.
    The fact is that most of the people here are good people who mostly don't bother their neighbors except with an occasional overly-enthusiastic rooster or coon hounds who bark at all hours. The gas station had a short-lived string of burglaries where the thieves stole as much beer as they could carry.
    I'm sure there's a certain amount of domestic abuse, which can only be exaccerbated by having a gun at home, and there certainly is drug use and other stupidity.
    But to say that for the most part we have low crime here because the bad guys know we're all armed is beyond silly.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:21 p.m.

    @Craig Clark

    I hate to burst your bubble,, but "well regulated" does NOT mean, in circa 1789 use of the word "regulate" to make regulations, laws, and otherwise control things.

    "well regulated" meant well functioning or working.

    a regulated gun was a functioning gun, a gun that was working like it should.

    SO a well regulated militia meant meant a functioning militia, one that capable of doing the job,

    The right to bear arms was guaranteed to the people, not to the state nor a standing army.

    And this right was intended to secure a free state, not for hunting nor personal defense, they went without question, but to guarantee this nation and each individual state will remain free from tyranny.

    This city got it right.

    The left got it wrong, comments against are looney and irrational, based on unfounded fear of gun ownership and ignorance of what the 2nd amendment actually says.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:15 p.m.

    Hmmm? Lets list some items which kill more Americans then gun ownership:

    * alcohol
    * automobile accidents
    * junk food
    * stress caused by debt
    * drugs
    * government starting wars

    Why all the focus on guns?

  • Sophie 62 spring city, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:12 p.m.

    The more guns we have around, the more gun deaths there will be, by accident and by impulse. Kids shooting themselves and others, adults doing the same. You may say, well,if somebody is going to kill or hurt themselves or another person and they can't get to a gun easily, they'll find another way.
    Sometimes yes but sometimes no.
    Nobody ever thinks it will happen to them or their family, but it does. People shoot their own kids when they come in through a window, little kids accidentally shoot friends and family members. Teenagers, (the invulnerable) kill each other by accident and by impulse.
    And if you keep your gun in a safe and a bad guy comes into your bedroom some night, will you say, excuse me Mr. Rapist while I unlock my gunsafe and get my gun out to defend myself and with any luck kill you. ?
    Who of the families of those victims of accidental death would not do ANYTHING to go back and change what happened, but they cannot.
    You think it cannot happen to you or those you love. You are wrong.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:14 p.m.


    I get that crime rates are measured "per capita" (actually, they are usually measured "per 1,000" or "per 100,000"), so as to make apples-to-apples comparisons possible; only, they're not (apples-to-apples). On average, crime rates tend to grow at a slightly disproportionate rate as population increases above a certain number -- somewhere in the tens of thousands, if I recall correctly. Not all of the many factors that contribute to this phenomenon have been identified; but basically, it comes down to culture, demographics, and population density.

    My point was that an idyllic, pastoral, somewhat-isolated community like Spring City would be EXPECTED to have a lower crime rate PER CAPITA than somewhere like Miami or Philadelphia or St. Louis, based on the phenomenon that I mentioned.

    You can draw your own conclusions regarding how that squares with gun control/gun advocacy issues.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 8, 2013 4:09 p.m.


    ".....Control is needed but it should not be mandated by the government. We as individuals should be able to control ourselves."

    Government has both the right to enforce the Second Amendment and the duty to do so, even though each successive generation poses unique challenges in applying it to its times.

    I totally agree with you on your second point. We have the right to keep a gun but anyone who does should be aware that a gun kept in the home is more likely to be used to kill a family member in a domestic quarrel than an intruder in a home invasion. That's a grim reality that shouldn't be ignored.

  • OldSalt94 Murray, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    @Midwest Mom, I am glad you shared your opinion...but I have to disagree with the part about the pro-gun lobby using the tragedy...Most places I watch/read the news it is the Anti-Gun Lobby that is flaunting all of the tragedies involving guns to create a legislative action at the highest level of Government to add more laws on the books, when the ones already there just aren't being enforced. And why is that...Fast and Furious is one example. Yes there are accidents in the home, and not just from mishandled weapons. I don't have the numbers but I would bet that more people die or are injured from falling in the bath tub or off a ladder or many other common household accidents than there are gun related Murders. If some one is pushed from a ladder is that different from a mis-step and accidentally falling? Yet all gun related deaths are lumped to enhance the chance of sensationalism. Control is needed but it should not be mandated by the government. We as individuals should be able to control ourselves.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    I have been to and stayed in Spring City multiple times. It is a quaint and peaceful rural haven for art, recreation and leisure. Now it will be best known as an arsenal? Spring City is as much a target for armed criminals as Virgin, Utah (made a UN free zone by a resolution) is threatened by an invasion by the United Nations. Instead of making us safer, we are merely increasing our paranoia. I prefer to live with the miniscule chance of being harmed than go through my life in constant fear of both criminals and under-trained armed residents, who could easily mistake me, an outsider, as an intruder.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 8, 2013 2:28 p.m.


    "This has been very entertaining watching liberals go ballistic (no pun intended) over this story...."

    All due credit goes to your side for handing us tons of ammunition (pun intended) with each shrill outburst.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 8, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    This has been very entertaining watching liberals go ballistic (no pun intended) over this story, and they don't even live there! Says a lot doesn't it?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    Let me get this stright...

    Conservatives say Spring City, UT has a low crime rate because of guns.
    Then, the city council [i.e., the Government] wants to force everyone in town to have a gun in their home.

    Is the gun requirement by the Government to decrease an already non-existant crime rate in rural setting Spring City, Utah?
    to satisfy someone's extreme sense of insecurity and paranoia?

    BTW -- brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

    Will they be drafting a resolution to require everyone to go to church? Why not? We have freedom of religion - why not require it?

    7:16 a.m. Jan. 8, 2013

  • Salsero Provo, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 1:18 p.m.

    Well, there is a difference between having a gun in the home and carrying a concealed weapon out in public. Perhaps Spring City could enact a Stand Your Ground Law to facillitate a sense of security among its residents. That way, anyone who looks different who comes to town can be immediately challenged and dealt with to the relief of the citizens.

    For a community with essentially no crime, generating a fear of immenient crime is great for gun manufacturers and retailers. Perhaps they need to expand the resolution to include more lethal weapons because you never know. Maybe someone might come at them with a grenade launcher. Then real firepower can be requested for the real reason people want more guns, defense against a democratically-elected government they don't like.

    It doesn't matter that the recent talk about responsible gun legislation targets only a miniscule sector of the gun and ammunition industry. No one is making an issue out of hunting rifles and guns in the home for self-defense. The focus is only on military-type weapons for mass killing which have a high profit margin in the industry..

  • Aloha Saint George Saint George, Utah
    Jan. 8, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    A Novel Idea. Some are trying to take guns off the street. Where and when is the next movie theater or school??? Would it be in a place where more people carried guns? Teachers in school, movie theater workers. Hire more trained guards? Who's to say the guard will handle it appropriately. The concept of more having guns is going in the right direction. Especially in a society that's decaying in their morality and degenerate. Right to bear arms is a RIGHT, doesn't necessarily need to be law.
    It not the gun that's problem, it's the one holding it. If you want to fight guns, try taking some of that energy toward those degenerates. What if all teachers had a gun in their room?? I think the degenerates are smart enough to think twice to go there.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    Hayden, ID
    Switzerland does the same thing and guess what the crime rate is there compared to Detroit, Chicago, New York and most other American cities where gun laws are strict and only criminals can own guns?

    6:47 a.m. Jan. 8, 2013


    It's because Switzerland is SOCIALIST,
    requires 100% military service.

    If you want to use Switzerland as the example to follow,
    then you must follow ALL of it.

    Cherry-picking to suit your agenda is living a lie.

  • UT Brit London, England
    Jan. 8, 2013 12:49 p.m.


    So we can own firearms in the UK, gotcha. Thankfully few of us actually do. Also firing those activated replicas more often than not injures the shooter.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 8, 2013 12:04 p.m.

    At least it's just a resolution and not a nutty city ordinance making gun ownership compulsory like we've seen in other communities in America attempt to do. Still, it doesn't help dispel a growing perception of gun advocacy as something that has taken a turn towards fanaticism. To answer reasonable gun control proposals with a posture of in-your-face defiance gives greater weight to calls for updated gun control measures.

    "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State....."

    The original intent couldn't be any plainer, could it? The Second Amendment itself opens by stating its sole purpose. The ghosts of the Founding Father must be grimacing at the specter of how a right that they meant to guarantee a well-regulated militia now does little more than accommodate a well-armed mob.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    I wonder how many who support compulsory gun ownership are against the Affordable Health Care Act. Problem is, no one in my vast extended family has ever needed a gun to defend themselves but all have needed affordable access to healthcare, at some point in their lives. Access to healthcare is clearly more urgent.

    Fear doesn't build, it destroys. The result of fear is to flee the cause of anxiety, not move constructively towards a specific good. You see that in animals. Fear mongers don't help you, they inspire phobia in order to control, or get gain. I find it disgusting that the pro-gun agenda has used the tragedy of murdered children and teachers to further their cause. Follow the money. There is profit in fear.

  • Demisana South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    Oh, boy. Crime rates are calculated as the number of crimes per capita. I.e., a low population has few total numbers, a large population higher total numbers, but the rates make it possible to compare apples to apples.

    And this highly informed comment "I'm not against guns, though I don't see the point or need to own semi-automatic rifles." Almost all guns sold today are semi-automatic. Every gun used by a cop or a soldier is semi-automatic. It just means that every time you pull the trigger, another round is loaded into the chamber, ready for the next time you pull the trigger. Trust me, if I have a home invader high on meth or something, I want to be able to pull the trigger again quickly if he doesn't get the idea the first time. Rifles are easier to use than pistols, and more accurate. And with the correct ammo, also less likely to go through walls.

  • Demisana South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    Re: British gun laws - the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 criminalised most semi-automatic long-barrelled weapons. The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 criminalised private possession of most handguns having a calibre over .22, and in 1997 the incoming Labour government introduced the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act, which extended this to most handguns with a calibre of .22 (there are exceptions for some antique handguns and black-powder revolvers.) A firearms certificate issued by the police is required for all weapons and ammunition except air weapons of modest power. Shotguns with a capacity of three rounds or less (up to guns with a magazine holding no more than two rounds, in addition to one in the chamber) are subject to less stringent licensing requirements than other firearms; shotguns with higher capacity require a Firearms Certificate. Possession of a live firearms round can lead to severe penalties. Shotgun cartridges can be possessed by anybody over the age of 17 but a Shotgun Licence is required.

    Criminals have maintained a steady flow of smuggled guns from eastern Europe, exhibition weapons reactivated in illegal "factories" run by underworld dealers, and guns stolen from private collections. Between 1989/2009 gun violence doubled.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    To any of you who believe that America can or will somehow get rid of guns someday, that could only happen if we became a totalitarian police state. Like for instance Nazi Germany. Getting rid of guns in America would be like getting rid of illegal aliens. Possible, but few Americans would want to pay the price to do it. So with that reality to face, deal with what to do with an armed America. My advise is to make gun crime a manditatory 20 to life prison sentence with no parole. The one government program that I would like to see an increase of funding for is more prisons. If we have to keep one third of our population locked up because they are criminals, that's fine with me. I think that kind of punishment would eventually result in deterrence and ultimately less gun crime as well as other crime in general. The fact that we as honest citizens have to live in our communities and walk the streets with criminals who are out on early parole because of overcrowding is a large part of the reason we want guns in the first place.

  • Reasonable Person Layton, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    Blame "Hollywood". Blame violent video games. Blame the mentally ill.

    Go ahead. BUT, other developed countries watch our movies, play our video games, and have mentally-ill people.
    They do not have our rate of violence and murder.

    When Gabby Giffords was shot, there were three concealed weapons carriers in the audience who did NOTHING until an elderly man and woman physically jumped on top of Loughner and stopped the shooting. Then, one of the CCW jumped on top of them.

    THEN, the man who was holding down Loughner was almost shot by another "good guy" who was walking out of the Walgreens store next door. This "hero" could have started a huge firefight.

  • Beverly Eden, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    This kind of thinking is the end-product of fear. In the United States, over many years of research, it is clear that homes with guns in them are twelve times more likely to have a gun death of a family member than homes that do not have a gun in them. Accidental death, and suicides are the leading causes. Spring City is a quiet, peaceful, community. Crime is very low. Fear will take freedom more quickly than the U.S. government. When fear creates this kind of thinking, freedom is lost. When you lock yourself in your home, clutching a gun, forced on you by your fear-mongering local government, you have lost a substantial amount of freedom. Think this through. It is a foolish idea based on unfounded fear.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    So if violent crime is deterred by every home having a gun, doesn't it follow that we could deter DUI's by every home having a bar?

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 8, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    Mountainman, Switzerland in many provinces has started requiring households to keep the state owned rifles in a town locker because they also had a mass shooting,home shooting, suicides and "accidents".

    Many of the gun enthusiast's favorite stories are just that.

    Israel has also stopped letting soldiers take guns home because of their soldier suicide problem. Turns out that without the gun, not too many commit suicide.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    The resolution defies rational discussion.

  • granddaddy stamford / usa, CT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    The Scots had such laws in the 16th century (and following) something to the effect every adult male had to have his sword and other weapons at the ready, so as to respond to the clan Chief's call within hours of summons. I believe adult was defined as who could lift a claymore (a sturdy double handled sword). See Sir Walter Scot's history of Scotland, sometimes calles Tales of a Grandfather (circa 1826-1830)

    South Carolina had a law in the 18th century that every voting adult male who had a pistol had to be armed at all times, including Sundays when they went to church meetings!

    The Minutemen in New England had their muskets at the ready at all times (18th century).

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    More misinformation from MM when he says "Switzerland requires the same thing."

    If this wasn't such a serious subject, it would be hilarious that the Republicans who decry any kind of government regulation want to to do this.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    Read the article instead of just the headline and you will find that the city council is recommending gun safety and training as the main thrust of their ordinance.

    Homeowners are specific as the basic unit of gun ownership for protection of family and property.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    "Spring City has a low crime rate for two reasons - the knowledge that most people are prepared to defend themselves and the community will support them doing so."

    . . . or, perhaps more likely, Spring City has a low crime rate because it is an out-of-the-way rural farming community of less that 1000 people, and is over 50 miles away from the Wasatch Front.

    By comparison, Newtown, CT (population 27,000), is about 45 miles from the Hartford, CT metro area (population 1.2 million), and just over 60 miles from New York City. Aurora, CO (population 325,000) and Columbine, CO (population 24,000) are both suburbs of Denver. And, Clackamas/Happy Valley, OR (population 14,000) is a suburb of Portland.

    While it is not the sole factor, and correlation certainly does not equal causation, there is a strong correlation between higher crime rates and lots of people in close proximity (read: higher populations).

    Just sayin' . . .

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    Oh my liberal citizens how the Constitution muddies up the water. Other countries cultures? Who cares. We are who we are. " He who trades freedom for safety get neither. Good for Spring City. Yippy Ky Yay!!!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    Esquire. Next time you are about to be a victim of a crime, don't call the police because they will show up with guns!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    The same people who don't want government to tell them what to do now wants to tell people what to do. This is madness! Don't you people see the hypocrisy?

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    Do these people still think we live in the wild west? Apparently. I'm not against guns, though I don't see the point or need to own semi-automatic rifles. Switzerland has extremely low crime for a whole lot of other reasons besides everyone owning a rifle. See above posts.

    The fact remains, the US has 3.7 gun homicides per 100,000 people. Greece is 0.59, Norway is .04, The UK is 0.04, Germany is 0.06, Japan is 0.02..... Do you see a trend here? Clearly what we are doing IS NOT WORKING. Yet you can't get that through people's heads, they continue to believe that the solution is more and more guns. I'm sure there are other reasons that contribute to the huge disparity, hollywood culture, etc..... but to look at those numbers and believe that the solution is more guns is just ludicrous.

  • Bergbub Midway, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    The dumbing-down of America at its finest! What a rediculous proposal and shame on those who find this to be a solution to a real problem.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:56 a.m.

    Switzerland also has the fourth highest homicide rate according to PolitiFact (not exactly left-leaning either). The reason why for this gun training in Switzerland is because they don't have a standing army and rely on "a well regulated militia."

  • Shimlau SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:55 a.m.

    HB; this was not an ordinance, or a law, did you read the article? NFISG; "Will a penalty be initiated for those who choose to refuse to join in their irrational insanity?" Sounds just like nationally mandated health care right?

  • UT Brit London, England
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:50 a.m.


    Except crime has been dropping in the UK for years but dont let facts stand in your way.

    One fact you cant escape though, Utah has a higher rate of murder than the UK and overall the US has 4 times the murder rate of the UK.

    Whatever you are currently doing sure aint working.

    Also how do some of my friends legally own rifles and shotguns here? I thought you said the government confiscated them all?

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    In Bowling for Columbine, the great Michael Moore displayed a town in Arizona that required it's citizens to own a gun. Most people laughed and shook their heads. Once again--(and again and again) Moore is proven right in his belief that our own fear will be our undoing. This is sad, childish and a knee jerk response to tragedy by leaders with the wisdom that would have been thought of as immature in a Junior High School Student Body Officer only a few years ago.

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    A waste of time for all involved. Republicans seem to specialize in this kind of work; making laws/resolutions that are completely pointless. It's telling that the council member with the original idea wanted it to be a law, got voted down by his peers, and THEN comes out with old "big government is bad" line. It seems to only be bad when they don't get what they want.

    Re: Allen, since when do burglars know if there is a gun or not in a home they rob now? I think one of the hallmarks of home robbery in America is that the person doing the robbing is generally not the brightest bloke and usually doesn't think about whether or not a gun is in the target household.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    Bravo for the city leaders of Spring City, a most pisturesque and nostalgic place. This is not a requirement, it is a recommendation and if it results in the residents getting more training and practice to be responsible gun users, that will be a great example.

    All of you who think restricting gun ownership will help, please remember that the horrible incidents that have happened with guns have usually happened in "gun free" zones. Lanza's mother made a terrible mistake in making guns accessible to a mentally ill son, and the lesson from that is that parents need to keep their guns locked up. He wasn't a responsible adult, his mentality was that of a troubled child. Plenty of parents wish there were better resources for dealing with children with mental problems.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:46 a.m.


    I've lived in Switzerland (not a missionary but as an expat). The reason their crime rate is low is because of their total culture. They are a much more controlled society, less given to free expression and the extremes we have in the USA. They do not own handguns. Every man serves in the military and has a rifle which they use in training every year. That is the extent of gun ownership and use. They rarely hunt, do not have concealed weapons, and have a stronger sense of community and trust in their government and police to protect them.

    I can tell you my Swiss friends (both LDS and non LDS) are horrified at the gun culture here and perplexed at our inability to solve it.

    Jan. 8, 2013 7:44 a.m.


    Switzerland also has universal health care. Those with mental illness can get help without going into bankruptcy. Switzerland also has some of the most lenient prisons in the world where inmates are allowed to have cell phones. And yet their rate of recidivism is much lower than the US. By the way, only specific Swiss military units are allowed to have ammo in their home. The average Swiss citizen has their firearm at home, but no ammo. The sale of ammunition – including Gw Pat.90 rounds for army-issue assault rifles – is subsidized by the Swiss government and made available at the many shooting ranges patronized by both private citizens and members of the militia. There is a regulatory requirement that ammunition sold at ranges must be used there.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    A similar law was passed in Kennesaw, Georgia in 1982.

    Between 1982 and 2005, overall crime DECREASED 50% in that city. And, Kennesaw now has the lowest crime rate in the county.

    Thus we have actual evidence that requiring guns (with an exception for those who object) does not result in more crime, more accidents, or anything bad, but does result in less crime.

    And, on the other hand, we have firm evidence from Chicago and Washington, SC, that total gun bans do not result in less killings, less overall crime, or less violence of any type.

    Sorry, liberals, nothing valid to complain about with a town that is doing something that works, even if it goes against your unfounded prejudices.

    Hurrah for Spring City, a breath of sanity!

  • Demisana South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    Um, it's a resolution - meaning an official recommendation - not a law. No penalties, no requirements. And if you think people are paranoid - see England, Australia and South Africa, all of which in recent years confiscated the guns of the people, and all of which have seen a large rise in crime since then. In our country - see Chicago, which has some of the most draconian gun laws and also one of the worst crime rates. Gun control laws take guns out of the hands of the law abiding and embolden the criminals.

    Spring City has a low crime rate for two reasons - the knowledge that most people are prepared to defend themselves and the community will support them doing so.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Will they be drafting a resolution to require everyone to go to church? Why not? We have freedom of religion - why not require it?

  • Allen Salt Lake valley, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    So far the town council is showing signs of common sense in trying to have the new regulation be a recommendation and not a requirement. Burglars won't know who has a gun and who doesn't, and that is good.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:59 a.m.

    "Crime is virtually nonexistent in Spring City," she wrote. "Maybe people could actually lock their homes if they don't feel safe." Priceless, yes lock your door is a good start.

    If you want to have fun go out there and ask the people if their town is safe. They, like most of rural America will burst with pride of the low crime rates and how they feel so safe they don't even lock their doors in case their neighbor wants to borrow a cup of flour.

    But, get them on politics and it's all about about how the democrats are coming for their guns that they need for personal protection. They're preparing for Armageddon which they will start themselves to fulfill their own ungodly prophecies.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:47 a.m.

    Switzerland does the same thing and guess what the crime rate is there compared to Detroit, Chicago, New York and most other American cities where gun laws are strict and only criminals can own guns?

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:40 a.m.

    Ah...I love home.

    Jan. 8, 2013 6:31 a.m.

    I spent eight years in the Army and served in Iraq. Negligent discharges are real and happen more than many people like to admit. Ask any veteran police officer. There are some people that should not be allowed to have a fork. Asking a very large group of civilians to all own firearms is a bad idea.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:50 a.m.

    People like this are the reason we have Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc. Don't you get it?? The Lanza's also believed this way and took at as far as having multiple semi-automatic weapons. I'm not against guns, but paranoia has played a part in our gun owning, violent culture. We think we have to solve all our own problems. I don't want to live in a society where everyone is armed to the teeth and thinks they can take the law into their own hands.

    Also, a little bit of sporadic training is not going to cover it. Even seasoned veterans of combat, when they are home for a while, lose their edge and don't react they way they need to. This is not like training to rent a snowmobile.

    Since an interesting culture in Utah that preaches loving your enemy, turning one's cheek, etc., and at the same time, kills for sport and wants everyone to pack heat under their coat and under their pillow.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2013 11:55 p.m.

    The infamous paranoid of our society are super spooked that someone is coming to take away their guns.
    So now they want to take it a step further and require that we all have guns in our homes.
    Will a penalty be initiated for those who choose to refuse to join in their irrational insanity?

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 11:53 p.m.

    I believe in the right to keep and bear arms but I also believe in personal freedom not to exercise that right...