Point guard Carlino scores 22, helps BYU come back late
After a nail-biting game, we are grateful for a win on the road! Way to rally
from behind, Cougars. Practice free throws this week.Go BYU!
After my Utes could not pull off the upset of Arizona (who really did deserve us
upsetting them after the refs GAVE them the previous game vs. Colorado), I was
really hoping for the Dons to beat the Cougars. But, alas, I was disappointed
twice tonight. Despite my thrill at seeing Davies foul out and Haws FINALLY
miss some free throws, Carlino has to come out again as a leader and will his
team to victory.He and Doolin had a little battle going. While
Doolin had 3 times the assist Carlino had, it was fun to see Carlino pick the
other guy's pocket a few times. Ha, ha. Good stuff. And Josh Sharp is
becoming the next Dennis Rodman, rebound king. And the frosting on top???
Bronson Kaufusi comes in and pads his stats w/ another basket and a rebound.
Good stuff.Again, you make me think I oughta be a Cougar fan...
What did the refs have against Brandon Davies?
For those who thought every game in the WCC, except Zags and SMU, would be a
cake walk, hopefully this was a wake up call. SF is a very good team and
capable of knocking anyone off who doesn't bring their A game.I've been very impressed with Carlino and Sharp the last few games.
Carlino is performing like I thought he would all year, and Sharp is a beast on
the offensive boards and very good defender.I was a little surprised
that Kaufusi came in and that Ambrosina didn't.Very happy to
see the Cougs get a tough, hard fought road win.
2,000 was the turnout? I realize that the WCC has some tough teams to beat at
home, but I can't help but feel like the conference is small-time when I
read figures like that. I long for the days of UNLV, New Mexico and SDSU. Still
no Big 12 or Pac 14/16 invite coming, alas. BYU has a good basketball program
going, but they need to get a better schedule ASAP or recruiting is going to
fall off a cliff. With only about 5 good WCC games a year, we should have zero
non-conference patsy games set up.
Key stat for BYU this season - 80 points:BYU is 10-0 when scoring 80
or more points.BYU is 2-4 when scoring fewer than 80 points.Utah(61-58) and Weber State(78-68) are the only teams BYU has beaten while
scoring fewer than 80 points.Interestingly, the Utes haven't
scored 80 points against a D-1 opponent this season.
BYU has to somehow learn to defend off the penetrating dribble.They need to
recruit some players who can penetrate off the dribble and then they can learn
to defend it better -- I liked the way they hung in all the way despite not
playing as good as they normally do.
IN past years I've seen BYU charge out and do great for the first half of
the season only to tire and fade and stumble into the NCAA tourney.I'm hoping this year is different... stumble at the start, not have the
act together, and the 3rd, 4th, 5th and bench guys doing little. Then, they
learn to play together and go into tourney time with a head of steam.Nice thing about sports, Andy, is there's always hope. And hope is a good
@CougFaninTXA 7-8 Dons team with an RPI of 173 is a good team?Yet you are on Utah boards telling us how bad we are at 8-6 with an RPI
of 103?BYU played a horrible team and survived, that's all
there is no need to talk up a horrible opponent.
Snack PAC"interestingly" you bring the Utes into your
comment though no Ute fans had posted a comment prior. Obsessed much?Also,
if Utah was playing an uptempo run and gun system as the Cougs do then your
comment would mean something. Since they don't, you're simply
comparing apples and oranges. I'm pretty sure a 3 point loss to the
#3 ranked team in the country at their house tells Utah fans which style of play
will eventually win the bigger games. And just think, Utah is coming that close
despite having a retooled team fresh off their worst season ever. I guess we now
understand why you're so nervous.
@Snack PACInterestingly, the Utes haven't scored 80 points
against a D-1 opponent this season.---------And who has
scored 80 on us? #3 Arizona State on the road? Nope, held to 16
points below their average. ASU on the road? Nope, held to 18
points below their average. The #2 WCC BYU on the road? Nope, held
to 18 points below their average. 12-2 Boise at home? Nope, held
to 25 below their average. We don't have to score 80 points, we
actually play defense. Unfortunately our offense isn't as good.
Thanks to the ute trolls for giving me an update on Utah basketball, in which I
have no interest. If I did, I would read an article about them. BYU played down
to their opponent last night as did Arizona. San Francisco was 7-1 at home
before playing the Cougars. The Dons don't play well on the road and the
Marriott Center will be difficult for them.
Utah doesn't really play great D, they just play a really slow, boring
game. Running down the shot clock until 8 or 9 seconds doesn't really mean
you play great D.
You people have to realize that most of the schools in the WCC are private
religious schools with a student body of 6000 or less so why would they build a
center that holds more than 6000,BYU is the exception because their student
population is near 30,000 so a big place makes sense,but as for the conference
not being good is another thing,Bill Russell,Steve Nash,and John Stockton are
all alumni of the WCC.
@motorbikeNervous no, happy to see the Utes holding their own and will
keep watching for better things to come and they will if they can keep their
coach. The Cougars played like they had their heads in the clouds after
the game on Wednesday then this game started and they got smacked in the mouth
and they had to keep fighting a very young opponent who if they can keep their
players will be really good in a couple of years
Uteology - RPI, really? who uses RPI in this day and age besides weak sports
news sites and the ever behind the times NCAA? Do you know that CBSSports shows
BYU at 30 in their RPI? I am a BYU Fan, but that is ridiculous! As a
Utah fan I would think you would not want to quote RPI stats since RPI generally
doesn't include how close the win or loss was.I chose a couple
of the most respected rankings below that take into account all D-1 opponents
and how close the game was through 1/5/13: Sagarin
PomeroyBYU - 55 Rank, SOS 97 47 Rank, SOS 132Utah -
88 Rank, SOS 128 116 Rank, SOS 298SF - 143 Rank, SOS 51 131
Rank, SOS 128 AZ - 9 Rank, SOS 55 14 Rank, SOS 107As you can see the rankings and SOS are all over the place, especially the
SOS. They do tend to come together at the end of the season, but RPI is famous
for being even more inconsistent and a team can often jump 30 places in rank
after one game using RPI.
@ 4601Actually it was Snack PAC who first gave this thread an update
on the Utes and bothered to do his research on point totals.@
LindonManWhat you said SOUNDS real nice, but have you actually done
your research or do you prefer just pretending your opinions are facts? You
might want look at who the number 7th ranked team in the country is at opponents
field goal percentage - which has little to nothing to do with pace of the game.
For kicks and giggles, Utah is ranked 21st in Opponents points per game.
@LindonManLindon, UTUtah doesn't really play great D,
they just play a really slow, boring game. Running down the shot clock until 8
or 9 seconds doesn't really mean you play great D.------------True. But holding your opponents to a low shooting
percentage does mean you play a great defense.BYU shot 31% against
our defense at the Marriott Center.Arizona shot 36% against our defense at
McKale Center.ASU shot 37% against our defense at the Wells Fargo
Arena.SMU shot 33% at Moody Coliseum.BYU held Weber State to
42%, Iowa State 48%, FSU 58%, Notre Dame 52%, Baylor 45%, and the Dons to 50%
shooting at War Memorial Gymnasium.Result? Utah in year one of
rebuilding the program has been in every single game while BYU has been blown
out 4 times.
Uteology"And who has scored 80 on us?"#3 Arizona
[sic] State on the road? Nope, held to 16 points below their average. - LOSSASU on the road? Nope, held to 18 points below their average. - LOSSThe #2 WCC BYU on the road? Nope, held to 18 points below their average.
- LOSSBurning the entire play clock may keep opponents from having
enough possessions to score 80 points, but it's extremely boring and
doesn't win games against good teams. If the Utes are going to run a
20-pass before shooting Princeton-style offense, they should get rid of the
"Runnin' Utes" nickname because it's false advertising.In 5 of Utah's 6 losses, the Utes scored fewer than 60 points.The Utes are 183rd in the country in scoring and already dead last in
the conference. If that kind of offense excites U, enjoy.
UteologyWhen a team shoots 70% in the first half expect a tough game
regardless of their w/l record.USF would smoke the Utes on a night
like they played BYU.Those moral victories got a few of you Utesies
excited huh? LOL
Uteology"Result? Utah in year one of rebuilding the program has
been in every single game while BYU has been blown out 4 times."Yes, but BYU is 12-4, while Utah is 8-6.And, unlike Utah, every
one of BYU's 4 losses has come against big name teams on the road, Florida St(9-5)Notre Dame(13-1)Iowa St(10-3)Baylor(9-3)while the Utes have lost 3 games against non-big name
teams, including two at home,Sac St(6-5)SMU(10-6)CSN(9-6)btw, Utah is in year 2 of rebuilding under coach small k,
but year 7 of rebuilding since Majerus left.Utah's defense is
improved, but Utah's offense is still ugly and boring.
Uteology"...holding your opponents to a low shooting percentage
does mean you play a great defense."True. But it doesn't
often result in wins, if you don't have an offense that can score.Sometimes you have to outscore the other team.For example, CSN
scored 76 points against Utah and 75 points against BYU, but bottom lineBYU 87-75 (BYU 47%, CSN 42%)Utah 76-71 (Utah 42%, CSN 53%)The difference in BYU winning and Utah losing versus CSN, was BYU
scoring 16 more points against the Matadors than the Utes.
LindonmanHow do you run the clock down to 8-9 seconds on D? Is that
your (byU "fan")way of saying that they play great D? Very well.Truth MachineThe difference is, those "big name"
schools rocked the cougs by a combined 64 point margin. The Utes on the other
hand have been in every game they have played. Losing by a combined 21 points in
all 6 losses including the #3 team in the country on their floor. Big
difference.All this flack about boring play. Just go take a close
look at how the Majerus teams played. Great D and a motion offense that produced
wins. Take that all day long.
utahcountyuteA loss is a loss.I do find it hilarious
that Utah fans are suddenly beating their chests about close losses in
basketball, after completely dismissing BYU's close losses during the
utahcountyute"Just go take a close look at how the Majerus teams
played. Great D and a motion offense that produced wins."Here's your "close look"Majerus's motion offense
produced wins because it SCORED at the end of most of those possessions!During Utah's heyday of the 90's, only one of Majerus's
teams averaged less than 70 ppg.Majerus's best teams1990-91 (30-4) 73.7 ppg1994-95 (28-6) 77.5 ppg1995-96 (27-7) 76.7
ppg1996-97 (29-4) 74.4 ppg1997-98 (30-4) 70.4 ppg1998-99
(28-5) 71.2 ppg2002-03 (25-8) 66.3 ppgOnly ONE of
Majerus's 25+ win teams averaged less than 70 ppg, and that team suffered
more losses than any other Rick Majerus-coached 25+ win team.Bottom
line:The Utes aren't going to win any championships or play in
many tournaments scoring 67.4 ppg (182nd in the country), especially when the
Utes are really averaging 64.5 ppg, if you don't include the 104 points
Utah scored against D-II Willamette.--------It's
interesting that you conveniently ignored Utah's losses to Sac St, CSN, and
utahcountyuteWhile good defense is important, being able to score is
a much bigger factor in determining how good a team is.Top 10 Teams
in FG% DefenseTexas6 KansasMaryland7 SyracuseGa
IndianaAP Top 10 and Scoring and FG% rank1 Duke(13)(34)2
Michigan(7)(95)3 Louisville(32)(93)4 Arizona(45)(72)5
Indiana(1)(10)6 Kansas(36)(2)7 Syracuse(14)(4)8
Minnesota(50)(32)9 Gonzaga(12)(86)10 Missouri(30)(19)
You guys are arguing over some ridiculous stuff.first of all, for
anyone that thinks scoring is more important than defense, check back with us
come tourney time and lets talk about how those high scoring teams that
don't play good defense end up doing.Now obviously if you can
run and score AND play great defense and rebound, you're a great team. The comparison of defense and scoring in reference to Rick Majerus
coached teams (made by our friend skywalker) is simply an example of what I just
wrote above. Notice Mr Skywalker didn't include the field goal percentages
of Utah's opponents but instead pointed only to Utah's offensive
production?Bottom line is this, Majerus built his program on defense
AND rebounding and had virtually the same type of results in his first 2 years
that Utah's starting to see this year under Coach Krystowiak. Once his
system started producing some decent results it was simply adding better scoring
recruits and fine-tuning his motion offense that made Utah's scoring go up
... and THAT's when the NCAA Tourney success truly began.Any
UteologyCSN shot 53% against your defense in the Huntsman Center.Result, another loss at home for the Utes.The real problem
Utah faces is U have no offense to compensate for the opponent having a hot
shooting night.By contrast, even with San Francisco shooting 50% FG
and 46% 3PFG, with Davies in foul trouble and Haws missing free throws, BYU
still had enough firepower to overcome a double-digit 2nd half deficit on the
road.How many double-digit leads has Utah blown this year because
they stopped scoring in the 2nd half?Defense can only carry U so
motorbikeNice strawman, but not a single blogger said that defense
isn't important.What they have been saying is you can't
rely solely on defense. If you can't score, it doesn't matter how good
your defense is, you're still going to lose.Majerus's best
teams averaged 70+ ppg (usually in the mid-70s).Against D-1 teams
this year, Utah is only averaging 63.9 ppg.It doesn't matter
how you spin, the Utes will lose far more games than they win when they only
score 64 points, regardless of how good your defense is.
@ Rockwell"Nice strawman, but not a single blogger said that
defense isn't important."To which I say, nice strawman, but
not a single blogger said that offense isn't important.I can
supply you with a nice big DUH to every comment you made. No one is saying you
don't need offense, but it should be fairly obvious that defense is more
reliable than offense if your team knows how to play it. Why? Like you said,
shooters can be hot and cold ... that's why we're here stating that
defense and rebounding are the proper foundation to success. This doesn't
mean you don't still put the best offense on the court that you possibly
can.I spent one year under Majerus and I can tell you 100% that
Kryskowiak is building things the same way he did and going through the same ups
and downs that come with it. As I continually say, the foundation is nearly
completed, now watch what happens as the offensive system and talent improves.
It'll take some more time to build the correct way but it's gonna get
silly sooner than many think.
SkywalkerHow did I "ignore" the losses to CSNR, Sac St and
SMU? I included the numbers of all 6 losses the Utes have had. ???Well explained Motor. There will most likely be questions though.
Official NCAA RPI Rankings#30 BYU#103 Utah St#107
Utah#143 Weber St
Oh, by the way. USF is a three time national champion in basketball. Just
sayin'.Uteology - USF would have crushed utah last Saturday
night. They brought their "A" game. Not as "horrible" as you
Utah is in year one of rebuilding since I we have 10 new players from last
year.Settle down BYU fans, I never claimed Utah was a good team. I
said we are playing some great defense and we struggle on offense.Tom in CA: "Uteology - USF would have crushed utah last Saturday night.
They brought their "A" game. Not as "horrible" as you
say."Arizona would have crushed BYU last Saturday night. So
whats your point? Don's are a horrible team, even lipstick won't
help.@phoenixI find it hilarious that BYU fans after
"beating their chests" after losing close football games with a great
defense and a poor offense our tell Utah fans how not to act.
The ironic part of this offense vs defense debate is if Jimmer played defense
BYU probably would have made it to the Final 4 at least once. And "Jimmer
Watch" would be "Who got Jimmered".
UteologyJimmer's defense was never an issue; Rose structured
his game plan around giving Jimmer a bit of a break on defense so he could
handle the physical toll of the constant double-teams he faced on offense. BYU
would have made the Final 4, possibily even won a championship if Davies
hadn't been suspended just before the playoffs.
Next year will be great. Picture this:PG Matt CarlinoSG Tyler
HawsSF Kyle CollinsworthPF Josh Sharp/Eric Mika/Nate AustinC
Eric Mika/Nate Austin.Everyone on here can score(sure, you can argue
Sharp, Collinsworth, and Austin not scoring much, but they CAN score.)Carlino can pass, and pretty much everyone can rebound(Carlino can rebound) .
The only area of question is defense, which I actually think they can do
decently. Really watch out next year