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Comments about ‘Gun show packs 'em in as enthusiasts fear showdown with government’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 5 2013 7:26 p.m. MST

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justamacguy
Manti, UT

If you are going to talk about suicide then you better talk about the route cause and lever the gun out of it. Both Canada and Australia, which have very tight gun control, have higher suicide rates than the US. Canada, Australia and England also have a higher victim assault rate, more than double the US. These same gun control countries also lead the US by a factor of 2 to 1 for rape. There is more to the "gun violence" than the gun. I you look at the FBI crime statistics violent crime is down by half in the US. We are actually improving despite intermittent sensational stories. If you take the world crime statistics demographic and look at violent crime you will find that it exists in pocket of population, in particular those greater than 250,000. If you compare this demographic with England the violent crime rate is equal. The US looks worse because we have 186 of these vs 32 in England. Fact: Only 3.5% of violent crime was committed with rifles, of which the AR-15 is a subset. Shows how much you can trust the media in portraying truth.

Rynn
Las Vegas, NV

Not sure what the answer is. As long as there are people walking the Earth, there are going to be people that want to do bad things. And they will find a way to do so.
At the same time, the idea of every person walking around with a gun seems a little unnerving too.

Unless a citizen is one of those highly skilled gun owners that have trained to shoot with precision...I don't think I'd feel comfortable around them.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

These are fearful people. I wish they'd participate in society and governance, instead of preparing to take up arms against it.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . if you own a gun it is 22 times more likely to be used to kill you (suicide) or someone you love (accident, homicide in a heated argument) than a stranger in self-defense."

That's a classic false analogy.

While the quoted numbers may approach validity, the reasoning doesn't. It's comparing apples to kumquats.

The only valid comparison would be to compare accident/injury rates in homes with and without guns, or assault/suicide rates in homes with or without guns. And, to be valid, the studies would need to be normalized for other possible confounding factors, such as income, drinking, drug use, etc.

Since such studies have not been proposed or funded, and since most investigators and grantors are liberals, one may assume the results of such a study would not be helpful to the gun-control cause.

juni4ling
Somewhere in Colorado, CO

"Shall not be infringed."

To liberals that somehow gets translated into: Taken away.

But the original founding fathers meant "Shall not be infringed."

The original founding fathers meant for the populace to have the same guns as the police and the military.

It had nothing to do with hunting.

It had nothing to do with target practice.

It had everything to do with citizens having the ability to resist. It had everything to do with self defense.

Liberals can mock gun owners. Liberals can site guns in "suicide" deaths in an effort to make it appear that guns are the "bad" thing.

But the truth: Liberals want a government that is armed to the teeth, but averace citizens unarmed in comparison.

At the gut-deep level, we need to ask ourselves: "What ultimate goal do liberals have in mind when they want an armed government, but an unarmed populace."

Because we can look at history to see what an armed government can do to an unarmed populace.

In the not-too-distant past we can see cattle cars of unarmed citizens.

The intent of the founding fathers was the freedom of self-defense.

Liberals want to reduce freedom.

mohokat
Ogden, UT

No girly men at the South towne Expo Center.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Insane. Just insane.

juni4ling
Somewhere in Colorado, CO

People are buying guns, and Hutterite assumes that they are preparing to take up arms against the government.

Not for self-defense.

Not for home protection.

Not for target shooting or practice.

But to take up arms against the government.

I bet there were very, very few folks going into the gun show thinking, "I hope I can get a good gun so that I can take up arms against the government."

Yes... That was the intention of the founding fathers. The intention of the founding fathers was that an armed and prepared populace could not be bullied by the government.

There are bad guys who are resisting the government. The Obama administration funneled guns into cartels in Mexico.

The Obama administration intended those guns to be used *against* the government, against officers, and against citizens.

But I bet the number of ladies and gentlement purchasing guns, thinking, "I can't wait till I can shoot police officers" is zero.

I bet there was not a single gun purchaser thinking about putting rounds down range against police officers. None.

I bet they are worried about a volatile Obama administration fighting the rights of average citizens.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Juni4ling -- I can't even begin to count the times I've read right here in these comments that pro-gun folks have included the need to be prepared to resist when our government needs to be overthrown.

Owl
Salt Lake City, UT

Truthseeker,
People announcing themselves as the seeker of truth usually means just the opposite. You seem to have an obsession with the LDS church. Look at the totality of it's emphasis (Actually seek the truth and start by reading the Family Proclamation of 15 years ago.) on following Christian doctrine and applying it in one's life. That will answer your questions.

Beverly
Eden, UT

The idea that a gun is going to keep safe you from criminals is not realistic. Homes with guns in them have twelve (12) times as many gun deaths than homes that do not have guns in them. Your teenage son, whose girlfriend tells him to take a hike, and he becomes despondent and in this foolish moment can't see all the other opportunities that are available ahead, and he commits suicide - that is what you need to fear with the gun in your home. Ask the Layton Grandparents, whose grandchild was accidentally killed, with the loaded gun in their home. Before this child's parents reached the airport for a short vacation, the home with a gun in it was the home where a child was accidentally killed - that is what you need to fear. These events do not occur in homes that do not have a gun. The instant death is 12 times more likely in homes with guns. Stop and think about this. Utah is not a crime ridden ghetto - Utah is a gun crazy killing zone filled with suicides and accidental gun deaths.

Beverly
Eden, UT

Fear is often based on nonsense. What gun owners need to fear is the accidental gun death or gun death suicides by their family members. The accidental gun death of a grandchild recently dropped off in a Layton, Utah home to be watched by grandparents while the parents went on a short vacation; the love struck teenager whose loss of a boyfriend or girlfriend causes them to feel life is not worth living and commits suicide with the readily available gun in the Utah home - that is what should be feared. Buying a gun for protection from criminals is a good example of unfounded fear. Homes with guns in them have twelve times (12X) as many gun deaths than homes that do not have a gun in them. The instant death from a gun in Utah homes kills more young people than you can imagine, certainly kills more innocent people than are hurt or killed by criminals.

DH48
West Jordan, UT

The behavior and obsession being demonstrated by gun enthusiasts right now is sickening. We live in a very sad world where the things that really matter are ignored while people obsess over things that ultimately only bring pain and suffering. Guns are just one of these items. Wake up people and start looking for the things that matter.

I was at South Town yesterday also, for the home show. What a sorry sight these people were!

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . the need to be prepared to resist when our government needs to be overthrown."

The best way to make sure we never have to fight our own government is to stay strong enough, that the threat of insurrection operates as a meaningful deterrent to liberals looking to take away our freedoms.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

As the Tories used to say: These are fearful people. I wish they'd participate in society and governance, instead of preparing to take up arms against it.

DN Subscriber 2
SLC, UT

@ one old man- There is a difference between preparedness and desire.

Our Founders wisely foresaw the need for multiple checks and balances when they established our government. And they hoped that the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment would never be needed.

I have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen, a spare tire in my car, and insurance on my house and car. That does not mean I WANT or LOOK FORWARD TO a kitchen fire, a flat tire, a car accident or loss of my house or car. It is called smart people being prepared for unexpected and undesired possible events.

If the Founders were alive today, they would have fire extinguishers, spare tires, insurance, and some guns. And, their guns would not be flintlock muskets!

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

It's amazing how ill informed people are and how they let the media influence them. If guns are so bad let the police turn theirs in first. How about all you intellectuals put a sign on your door that says "gun free zone" or better yet let the DN post a map of all the homes with no guns. I fear the government. If you don't you are a fool.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

By reading these posts, there sure are a lot of paranoid people out there. Just as there were 45 years ago, when these same arguments were being made. And I'm sure before that; I just don't have a memory that far back. A hundred bucks says in 10, 20, 30 years, you will still be able to buy a gun, and this same sky-is-falling, the government is going to take all our guns away mentality will continue!

1hemlock
Tooele, Utah

When someone is deranged/stupid/attention-seeking and wants to "do something" you will not stop them by "hiding/confiscating" the guns.
There have been several people killed in Yew York City as "someone" pushed them into the rail tracks. Should we ban the subway and close up all access to the subway stations? Should we "confiscate" the railcars? Should we make the rail cars go more slowly (and defeat the purpose of the subway . . . to get folks to places fast)? Should we only let people that can pass an IQ test above a certain level get on the subway?
Would any of the proposed regulations (or previously proposed regulations) have stopped any of the tragedies?
Probably not. Have there been any folks who know guns, have learned to shoot, enjoy shooting who is proposing any bans? The fearful, because of lack of knowledge and a feel a need to do something, seem to be beating this drum.

no fit in SG
St.George, Utah

Too bad there isn't a "Learn to be tolerant, understanding, and get along with others without using guns" show.
Or....a "Why are people so scared of everything that they need multiple assault rifles?" show?

Any chance "They" could pack em' in?

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