Lawmakers cite lack of spending cuts in voting against fiscal cliff bill
@EvolvedRevolutionary the poor common man can't get a break? Nearly half
of Americans pay no income tax. Shame on the successful business person who is
so greedy as to think that paying nearly 40 percent is excessive when half
aren't paying anything. Remember the good old days when even poor people
avoided the stigma of being on welfare. Now it is all about how to get me some
bennies without having to pay for them.
Because they dream of conservative gold 1950's utopia and thats all their
constituents want to hear.
Senator Hatch showed his maturity and leadership in this situation. The rest of
our state's legislators are the people our nation is disgusted with. These
lawmakers are content returning to the economic nightmare we saw unfold a few
years back. They should be embarrassed.
We are 16 trillion dollare in debt and headed for 20. Your representatives at
least had a clue. They should be thanked for at least trying.
CA: Yes we understand...that you don't understand. Since you will never be
convinced that in no way does Social Security fit the definition of a Ponzi
Scheme, at least have the courage to call it the "longest running Ponzi
scheme in history". Most schemes unravel in the first few years, some like
Bernie Madoff's version lasted more than 10 years. Social Security is at 78
years and still going strong...now that the full payroll tax is restored thanks
to the adults in Congress. The system needs some tweaks like it has twice before
in its 78 years, but with those you will be telling your grandchildren that what
you thought was a boondoggle is still providing support for seniors and the
Politics. Self over country. A knowledge that they simply well not be held
accountable for their actions, unless they switch parties. Any number of
The deficit is important and needs to be managed..but..Elcapitan what crisis?
Interest is 0 inflation is 0 we have no trouble selling our bonds..what crisis?
I think I see my last 10 years of paid taxes in the decor of Senator
Hatch's office. Whatever Orrin. Your whole campaign was based on 'What
If' Your term can't end soon enough.
I go back many years...even to the time when Marriner Eccles wss running the
fed. He said at that time that deficit spending was OK and that it would always
exist. Well, the chickens are now coming home to roost. It has taken years to
get into crisis mode. Obama obviously does not intend to try to reverse our
course. He is bent on fundamentally changing America into a socialist state. We
will probably pay an awful price for not running our house on a sensible budget.
I feel sorry for my grandkids, we are handing them a real mess.
A Ponzi scheme is defined as you cannot give back the return you have promised.
Looking at social security and other welfare programs, they definite meet the
definition of the Ponzi scheme, because people pay taxi, they will not get the
service which is promised to (look beyond year 2017). Therefore, less amount of
money put into the Ponzi scheme is better. In this sense, any deal without
spending cut would be a bad deal for American People. Do you understand?
More significant than the scorecard for the Utah delegation is the one for the
early Republican favorites for President in 2016. Both Marco Rubio and Rand Paul
(newcomers to the Senate not unlike Senator Obama 6 years ago) were allowed to
vote "no" so as not to have to explain to the voters in four years why
they "consorted with the enemy" even though the Senate vote was 89 to 6
in favor. They get the best of all worlds: a vote that everyone on both sides
knew had to happen and they don't have to pay for it by raising the ire of
the fire eaters in their party.
Of course most of the Utah reps are mad about the deal. They make more than
$400, 000!!! Gosh forbid the regular man catch a break from the greedy Utah
politician/businessman! Sen Hatch had it right to support this bill!
Same old political games! Why didn't our wonderful delegation at least
push the Boehner-Kantor incompetents to push the Sandy aid bill? Time to
replace the whole bunch with a statesman who wants to serve the country and not
just their lobbyist-benefactors.
MightyHunter: The problem I have with this deal is it didn't change a dang
thing! Congress the House, and even the president said there just wasn't
enough time to come up with a better deal, bull! They have had months and
months, ever since they imposed this dumb fiscal cliff. I am sick and tired of
all the politicians kicking the can farther down the road instead of figuring
out how to fix the problems! If I did my job half as ineffectively as them, I
would be fired in no time flat. That is why I am angry, nothing is getting done,
and the can gets kicked farther down!
@lost in DC -- It is absolutely nutty that a Republican is saying that voting
for a tax cut is evil. I know, I know, if it's ANYTHING that Obama even
looks like he supports, it is evil, even if it's exactly what you were
trying to get all along. It's a crazy world in tea party land.
Can we finally face the fact that Mr. Hatch is no longer right to represent the
values and concerns of most Utahn's? When will we come to our Tea
sippin' senses and elect the kind of candidates who will really, honestly
represent hard line conservative values and show the rest of the nation how a
truly anti-liberal state can lead the way? From all appearances, it would seem
like the country is choosing to go in another direction. It's time to
double down on all of those things that the nation voted against and present
them in a new and delightsome way. Mr. Hatch simply does not want to play
hardball and actually wants to "bipartisanship." With who?! President
Obama and the left leaning media. Right. Like that's ever gonna happen.
Hatch proved long ago he feels he no longer has to answer to his constituents.
Especially since he said he will not run again (though I would not be surprised
to see him reverse himself on that, too)blueDevil,so
you’re saying, go ahead and go along with evil if you cannot overcome it.
Like a good German industrialist in 1936: we can’t stop Hitler, so
let’s make money building his war machines.Pragmatist,What cuts are you talking about? The deal includes INCREASED, not decreased
The simple fact is is that those who voted no, regardless of whay they say,
voted for a tax increase on everyone. The fact that in this stop gap legislation
that there were no spending cuts is no excuse.. They gave us all an convenient
Cool-Aid excuse, and some of you have bought it. But the real reason for the
vote was fear of being Tea Party primaried in the next election. That wouuld
not be a problem for Hatch, he has six years before he has to worry about that.
Fear is a great motivator.The worst part of it is that a so called
democrat was so fearful that he voted against what the majority of his party
wanted. That is real fear. I expect that of the Utah Republican establisment,
they have seen what the radical tea party can do. But Mattheson, needs to
change parties and join the Tea Party caucus, because that is what he really is.
I've heard two Republican Reps (in Illinois and Indiana) justify their yes
votes. The one from Illinois voted for it because it preserved the inheritance
cap of $5 million which is good for farmers.The one from Indiana claims it
will box Obama into a corner a couple of months down the road because they can
throw this deal back in his face telling him he got what he asked for and it
didn't work.Those are both interesting takes on the matter but they
don't sell to the informed voter.Obama's approval rating is at
57% with Rasumussen. That's amazing. What it tells me is that voters want
the perks today. They don't care about the national debt, deficit
spending, making our kids pay for the government benefits we recieve...Most importantly, voters and congressmen do not understand that we are playing
with fire. If we lose our reputation as the world's currency the cost of
money will bury us. The Fed will no longer be able to manage interest rates and
inflation.This dabbling with our fiscal situation will cost us far more
than a cheap gain in January of 2013.
Lets look at the really sad part of this whole mess.We have had this
staring us in the face for almost 2 years.How sad is it that the
"children" who run our government cant get this done, with reasonable
debate and compromise. Why did they not do this a year ago? Do you let your
kids start on that project on Sunday night when it is due on Monday?Instead, they do a 2 month measure because it is easier than fixing the DANG
issue like they were sent there to do.What a bunch of pathetic
non-leaders we have. ON BOTH SIDES of the political isle.
Most of Utah's delegation voted "No" because "Maybe"
wasn't an option.
Boehner has a grand bargin with over a trillion in spending cuts, but it rasises
taxes on those making over 400K..can't even get it to the floor because of
the tax increase. Realizes there will be a tax increase so he decides to be
pro-active and unilateraly set the bar at a million..can't get that to the
floor. Gives up and passes the ball to the senate at the two yard line. Senate
passes a smaller bill saving tax cuts for all those under 400K..hmm, that looks
familiar..and it restores the payroll tax to shore up SS, and give all workers
more skin in the game..hmmm I thought that's what the republicans were
crying about during the election..and it says ok folks you've got two
months to figure out the sequestar with taxes off the table..and our congressmen
vote against this..talk about do nothings. They have a chance blow it are given
another chance and blow that.
1. Government makes giant Fiscal Cliff Problem.2. Government makes
everyone aware of giant Fiscal Cliff Problem.3. Government solves problem
it made... 4. Government wonders why no one likes government... Hrm. Now there's a toughy.
Everyone who was against this deal is out to lunch. Had this deal not passed and
taxes increased they would have screamed louder than anyone. Had this deal not
passed they are fooling themselves in thinking they would have got a better
deal. Congress is broken but so is America. Too many stand on the far right or
left and we have few hero's like Hatch who have the courage of our founding
fathers to compromise. Those against this bill would never have allowed the
Constitution or the 13th Amendment to ever survive a vote. They don't
understand what the word compromise means or entails.
Each of these members of the Utah delegation want spending cuts, as long as they
don't affect Utah. What is Utah ready to give up? The answer is clear:
So, if they vote no and the bill fails, everyone's taxes go up and Utah
screams. If they vote yes and it passes, then taxes stay relatively low, but
the social safety net (ie. Medicare, Social Security) doesn't get
completely gutted and Utah screams. Regardless of whether the bill passes or
fails, Utah screams. When Obama fought to extend the payroll tax cut, the
commenters here complained. Now that it has expired they still complain. There
is absolutely nothing anyone can do that would make Utah republicans happy.
so what's really wrong with the cliff...we have to understand that at
some point someone has to pay for all this and having people on food stamps and
medicaid pay a little into the pot with the rest of us sounds like a great idea.
True, there would be a lot of people very upset...but that would get the
masses involved and interested.I wouldn't mind paying extra taxes for
a year or two if it meant that we as a society realized we have to stop
spending- or come up with the money
@ETT - the reason given by the head of the Utah Tea Party said it best..."We have a big problem were not looking at he said. These guys are
never going to fix it. You know what? In Hatch's defense, maybe he realized
that and got what he could for taxpayers."There are signs of
intelligent life out there.You can tell that the people who keep
playing the role of all-ot-nothing have not had serious jobs where getting the
deal was more important than arguing over whose kids are better looking. Any
deal where someone gets all they want is a bad deal and will eventually come
back to haunt them - the Treaty of Versailles is a great example.This is why they call it politics boys and girls. How many of you were
willing to have you jobs lost to make a point?
The reason one delegate (Hatch)voted yes, is because he's a career
politician. He's forgotten how to serve the people of Utah. Like his former
colleague Bennett, he ignored his constituency. He voted the way he thought
would keep him in office next term. Hatch has become old and jaded. It's
time for him to retire.Our other delegates voted no because they knew this
was political cliff compromise. The Senate Republicans, and now the House
Republicans sold us out on a disastrous bill. They traded a cliff for a
Oh, you've got to be kidding, durwood. The voters have short, short
memories. Otherwise how could Obama and Harry Reid ever get re-elected? Yet
A better question might be, "Why will many voters ignore these people in the