@pleblian - apparently the moderators are either very slow to post, or are much
more concerned about your feelings than us ignorant BYU fans. I'll try to
tone it down, although I think you would have lived through my original
comments.BYU fans, and their spectrum of knowledge, are no different
than fans of any school across the country. To say otherwise displays a
provincialism that reflects a knee-jerk hatred of BYU.I checked out
the walk-on status of BYU starters. Out of a total of 26 different starters for
the Poinsettia Bowl (11 offense, 11 defense, 4 special teams), a grand total
of.....wait for it..... 1 walk-on - Ezekial Ansah!BYU detractors
continually surprise me with how little they actually know about the BYU
football team, when they claim to know so much.
BYU fans ignore or just aren't informed enough to know just how many of
their starters began as 'walk ons'. And how many scholarship athletes
end up busts?Also, comments about a high school qb playing qb for college
demonstrate even more ignorance by fans. You realize that nearly all your
linebackers, DBs, running backs and some of your tight ends were starting high
school quarterbacks? USU isn't recruiting a qb, they are recruiting speed
and athleticism-just like anyone else.BYU fans continually surprise
me with how little they actually know about their own team.
@jpg - we're solving an important intra-state athletic crisis here, if you
don't mind.I became embarrassed at my participation well before
my last post, and must admit my stubborn pride made me persist long after I
should have quit. I totally agree with your comment, and I'm glad there
was at least some entertainment value for you.Ending on a high note
- Goodnight Everyone!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!Just sat down to catch up on a little sports news
before rolling into bed and can't believe what I've just ready. Three
grown guys (that's an assumption) wasting the better part of two days
arguing about nothing in front of anyone who cares to read.Go to
bed, catch a little rest and reread your posts in the morning. You'll all
be embarassed. At least I got a little chuckle at the end of the day.
Thanks!And good luck, Jordan.
A Game - in your post at 7:18, you respond to DSB as follows"You're saying that a walk-on can't excel?"My
deepest apologies for suggesting you used the word "impossible."
Clearly, it's entirely different than "can't"Comprehension - look it up. Also, "literally."
OK, since it's quite apparent that you will not accept that my phrase
"it's unlikely for an unwanted player to excel" captures both the
odds and the possibility of success, despite repeated attempts to explain the
concept, let me just say for easy understanding that:I believe the
possibility exists for Brown to succeed, and even excel as a quarterback at
USU.That does not contradict anything I have already said, and is
apparently in complete agreement with your claims. I withdraw the true but
apparently confusing qualifier "but it's statistically unlikely,"
since that is apparently a source of confusion and great angst for you. Since
we both hope that Jordan Brown is a wild success, this argument has become
rather silly.I'll even let you have the last word. You can
tell us how much you're laughing, and make it sound like you've been
making some different argument than me, and that it's so hysterical how
confused and uncomprehending I am. I won't even respond, so you can seize
the moment and spike the metaphorical football.Thanks Let's
Debate for explaining the painfully obvious.
LetsDebate,And dude, you should learn to read. Literally. Why
don't you quote a time I've said the word "impossible." There
is one debate here dude: does Brown have a chance to become a good player at
USU? Based on the way USU works, then yes he has a chance. This isn't BYU
or the SEC, it's USU. That is the point. The walk-on debate just reaffirms
that at USU, not BYU, any player with or without a scholarship can excel, but
that is up to the player and if they put forth the work. Now do you get it? The
fact that BYU didn't give brown a scholarship really isn't relevant as
to how good he will be, as evident by Heaps and Nelson. Pretty simple
The A Game - really dude, you're challenging DSB on his comprehension?
DSB's many posts have asserted that walk-ons have a chance, but you keep
insisting he hasn't made that point. Doesn't the phrase "it
isn't likely" carry the assumption that, although unlikely, it IS
possible? You realize there's a difference between "unlikely" and
"impossible," which he never said, right? Plus, DSB explicitly said it
is possible, multiple times. Man, you need a dictionary for a lot of words,
including the one you raised - comprehension.
And you should use a dictionary to find the definition of
"comprehension." Then maybe you'll be able to understand what
people are talking about instead of arguing with yourself. I said look at
Kerwynn, as in: anything is possible. I did not say " Brown will without a
doubt have the same impact Kerwynn did." Once again, brown has the
opportunity, no one has predicted anything more or less. Get it? Your SEC
comment is pointless and hilarious. USU doesn't claim to be anything more
than who they are, unlike another team in the state claiming a national title is
in the works. However, like I said before. Jake Doughty, Zach Vigil, and Mcade
Brady prove my point that walk-ons have the chance, not the guarantee, to be
successful. Get it?
A dictionary may help you better understand words like "chances,"
"odds," and "likely," all words I have been using. I have not
been using certitude language that you keep trying to pin on me. I first chided
others for implying that signing the former BYU walk-on was the path for
building the top qb school in the state. Your response to me was "Nobody
wanted Kerwynn Williams either, and look how that turned out." If you
weren't saying Brown would end up as great as Kerwynn Williams, then how is
that different than what I said? I never said he would turn out terrible, and
repeated that I hope he succeeds wildly.So, what's your
disagreement? Are not the ODDS against him, even though it's possible for
him to excel? If you really think walk-ons "can succeed as well as anyone
else," you should apply for a position at an SEC school, because they
believe blue chip athletes succeed much better than anyone else. They
don't know walk-ons are equally likely to maintain a successful program.
Your philosophy should be very enlightening to them, and save them a lot of
The fact that Brown received a scholarship from USU makes my original point that
much more valid. Kerwynn had no other offers, so he took what he had and
excelled. Have I, or am I, professing Brown will do the same? Not once have I
said that. However, once again I am saying that just because BYU didn't
offer him a scholarship doesn't reflect how he'll play at USU. Maybe
he'll do terrible, maybe he'll do great. Fact is, USU couldn't
care less what BYU thought of him. Now do you get it? To prove my point, once
again: Jake Heaps and Riley Nelson. I'm assuming they were both on
scholarship, no? Wow, and they turned out great! Obviously the name
"BYU" does not guarantee success. So, like I said: Brown has the
opportunity to do great. Let's hope he does. If he doesn't, then
it's not the end of the world. Original point made: no one cares that BYU
didn't offer him a scholarship. Make sense?
A GameI'll make it easy for you to understand:Blue
Chip recruit - highest chance of excelling.Player who is pursued by
several schools - moderate chance of excelling.Player with 1 offer - some
chance of excelling.Walk-on - lowest chance of excelling (But yes - still
possible!)You were the very first commenter to make the
"confusing" running back to quarterback relation of Kerwynn Williams to
Jordan Brown, and now you're "laughing" because a statistically
sound argument is made that Kerwynn is an anomoly, and entirely atypical of a
player "nobody wanted," to use your own words.By the way -
both Williams and Brown are USU scholarship players. I think you're a
little confused. But if you keep laughing, I'm sure you'll feel
@The A Game - you can't stop laughing like those little girls Let's
Debate was talking about? If you laugh, then I suppose you think you've
got a good argument. I don't know if Kerwynn Williams was a walk-on.
You're the one who said nobody wanted him, making the comparison to Jordan
Brown. You can delude yourself all you want, and laugh until you're blue
in the face, but it is nevertheless true that a blue chip athlete has a far
greater chance of success than a walk-on. Brown CAN succeed, but his chances
are very slim. Get it? I don't suppose you do, because I've tried to
explain it several times and you can't even repeat it back correctly.
Who's confused?By the way, Brown and Williams are both on
scholarship for USU, so neither is a walk-on for the Aggies. For USU, both are
the same - players no one else wanted who USU picked up. Good on Kerwynn for
stepping up. I hope Brown does as well. If I was a betting man, however - the
odds are against him. Get it?
Dude, you've got issues and once again, I can barely type because I
can't stop laughing. Did I once say Kerwynn was a walk-on? Two different
topics buddy. Kerwynn topic = no one wanted him, became great athlete. Brown
topic = although a walk-on, can succeed as well as anyone else. Get it?
It's pretty simple, and your attempt to "make it more meaningful"
is nothing short of pure genius. A running back compared to a quarterback, one
on scholarship, one a walk-on......yeah I think you're a little confused.
@The A GameWow, no offense but you really should learn to read
before lecturing others about reading. Where did I ever say a walk-on
"can't excel?" I said it's highly unlikely. Kerwynn Williams
is not a typical walk-on, if he was one. MOST walk-ons are not impact players.
As I said, it would be difficult to build a traditionally powerful football
program with players nobody else wanted. I can't think of any nationally
respected team that has done so.From your first post: "Nobody
wanted Kerwynn Williams either, and look at how that turned out..." What
exactly does that mean to you, if not a comparison to another low-interest
player who made a big impact? Although you didn't say Jordan Brown was the
next Chuckie Keeton, if he's going to make it big, he will have to fill
Keeton's shoes. We all know that Brown won't be the next Kerwynn
Williams, since they don't play the same position. Kerwynn and Chuckie are
similarly high impact players - I was simply attempting to make the comparison
more meaningful, but apparently that went over your head.
Wow, no offense guys but you really should learn to read before you speak. DSB,
when did I ever say Brown was the next Chuckie Keeton? You're saying that a
walk-on can't excel? Since you profess to watch the Aggies, look at their
defense this past year. Heard of Mcade Brady, Jake Doughty, and Zach Vigil?
Walk-ons. Like I said before, just because BYU didn't offer someone a
scholarship in no way determines how they will play. Not once on here have I
professed anything about Brown, so like I said, read before you speak.
A Game,Despite a factual error about Nelson playing against Utah
State this year, DSB is right. If his error makes you laugh, maybe you win the
laughing contest. Little girls also laugh a lot, and sometimes think it conveys
some kind of superiority. That you enter a grown-up comment section, and your
best counterpoint is how hard you're laughing is really the embarrassment.
Fact is, Jordan Brown is an unproven entity who has not raised the
interest of any other college, and your post about BYU losing him as part of a
historical pattern is pretty ridiculous, no matter how hard you're
@The D Game So, Riley beat Kerwynn one year, and BYU's backup
qb beat him the next. Yeah, that's way better for you. The entire point
of our debate is whether Jordan Brown is your next Chuckie Keeton. As a former
BYU walk-on that no other teams pursued, it's highly unlikely that Brown
will work out as a great quarterback and help build a USU reputation as a top
flight football school. It takes embarrassingly exuberant wishful
thinking to crow about a great catch like Brown, and how BYU let him get away
per their "history." First, BYU doesn't have a "history"
of letting good qb's get away. Every school has isolated incidents.
Second, if no schools pursued him, that indicates latent greatness hasn't
been recognized by ANYONE. Possible, but highly unlikely. Brown has a
significant uphill battle to prove himself as terrific as you seem to think.You've already lost the debate on relevant arguments, so you
distract. Embarrassing indeed. I just can't stop laughing myself silly.
It's the funniest thing ever in the history of the world! I'll
probably die from infected belly stitches!
DSB,Riley didn't play in the game against USU this year so how
could he beat Kerwynn? Thanks for making me laugh harder now at your comments
than I was before. Next time you should try harder. Or in your words, get real.
You're embarrassing your team.
Good luck to Brown at USU. If BYU was not already loaded in the QB slots they
would have made a scholarship available to him. They have quality QB's in
the pipeline for years so Brown probably qould not have played anyway at BYU.
Good move to a classy place.
@The A GameI hope Jordan Brown succeeds and has a Hall of Fame NFL
career. I hope every kid succeeds. I'm sure it's real tough for you
to debate someone who's not as rabidly fanatical as you are about your
team. Like I said, get real about the likelihood of building a program on
walk-ons that no other school wants. Apparently that works out well every 76
years or so for USU. Keep dreaming, and keep telling us how Brown is as certain
of success as Kerwynn Williams, or as certain as we were 3 years ago about Jake
Heaps.By the way, Riley Nelson beat Kerwynn two years in a row
(insert laugh here).When USU can match BYU's resume for the
last 40 years, or even 25 years, or even the last 10 years (which is nothing to
brag about), then come back with your "A Game" debate. Quite frankly,
the Aggies are my second favorite team, and I love seeing them play well. Your
guess that Brown will be the next Kerwynn Williams is, at this point, nothing
more than wishful thinking. Statistically speaking, more like delusional
thinking. Again, get real.
Quarterback numbers by school ranked by completion percentage:School
- Quarterback: yards/CMP%1. Utah State - Chuckie Keeton: 3,373/67.6%2. Utah - Travis Wilson: 1,311/62.7%3. BYU - Riley Nelson: 2,011/58.8%
Nottoosmart, USU is a college town. The last game of the season was over
Thanksgiving when the vast majority of students have gone home, so you are
always going to struggle to fill the stadium that week. If you graph the USU
attendance over the past four years you will see that there has been dramatic
increases each year. Expect a continued increase next year.USU has
a junior qb that is by far the best in the state and a terrific defense. Yes,
it hurt to see Gary leave. But if you expect the Aggies to roll over, die, and
become irrelevant in football again, then you are probably also one of those
that believe a NC 30 years ago means that your team is always on the brink of
Two thoughts. One about Chris B's contributions and the other about the
real topic of this story Jordan Brown.It could very well be that
Chris B is actually a DNews staffer attempting to increase comments. If so, it
has been a very productive ploy. One Chris B comment, regardless of how out of
touch to reality it might be, generates many rebuttal comments almost
immediately. A newspaper couldn't ask for a better controversy maker than
a real or fiction Chris B. I am sure the DNews appreciates the business.As far as Mr Brown goes, he has made a good choice for one simple fact,
money. A full ride to a university is worth thousands of dollars each year. It
was great for him that Utah State came up with the offer, especially where other
schools didn't. I hope he does well both on the field and in the classroom.
DSB,Nobody wanted Kerwynn Williams either, and look at how that
turned out (In other words: a lot better than anyone at BYU). I'm sure
it's real tough for you to accept that just because the (not-so) mighty Y
didn't give the scholarship in no way determines how well he will play at
Utah State. I've got two words for you buddy: Riley Nelson. (Insert laugh
here)Toosmartforyou (or so you keep dreaming),Still
commenting on the fan turnout at Romney? You do realize how no one cares,
right? USU ended up top 20 and BYU ended up.......um......... top 50.
Congratulations. That is definitely something to be proud of. Looks like your
fan turnout didn't help in that regard.
@ utahaggiefootball fanKudos to USU for the best season in school
history. They finally won the conference crown outright (as in WAC crown) for
the first time since 1936. Finally---after 76 years it was, after all, a big
deal. A bowl game victory was stupendous, too. Then you lost your
head coach. Oooppps. How will USU do in the MWC instead of the WAC? Probably
about as well as Utah has fared in the PAC 12.....not so good.As far
as building a dynasty in Logan, why couldn't you get 18,000 fans into your
stadium each of the last three games for this magical, unbelievable,
history-making season? Where's the local support? If you don't play
BYU or Utah you don't sell tickets and that is telling about a supposedly
great program. USU doesn't qualify in that regard----sorry.Go
back to sleep and call us again in another 76 years. Maybe you'll beat BYU
in that magical year because you didn't beat them this year. (But keep
hoping, I guess.)
I hope Jordan Brown has a great career at USU. I really do, but to Chris B and
Aggie84, do you really believe USU is going to become the top qb school in the
state by signing former BYU walk-ons with no other scholarship offers? Get
real.And, Chrissy, "if history is any indication" (meaning,
actually looking at history as the phrase implies, instead of just one
incident), this year's qb situation with BYU is an anomoly, and we'll
be getting back to the real historical pattern of qb's like Sheide,
Nielson, Wilson, McMahon, Young, Bosco, Detmer, Sarkesian, Doman, Beck, and
Hall. Every decade or so we have a Steve Lindsley, Paul Shoemaker, and Riley
So Utah State did recruit a BYU missionary player? Hmmm? Had BYU
done the same thing?---go figure.
As a BYU fan I wish you the best of luck at USU.
Good luck to Brown.
All you utah and byu fans. The top 25 rated Aggies are the best football team
in the state. I love how fans from each school are rating the Aggies 2nd to
your team. We will prove it again this year.
I believe that USU is about to become the qb school in the state as well as the
running back and corner back and safety and linebacker. Can't wait to see
Chuckie followed by many others playing on Sunday. You can count on that Chris
Good choice Jordon. With Utah State and Boise State in the MWC and the changing
nature of the BCS you may find yourself playing in a BCS bowl.
Chris B - about the only thing going on with utah, since your boys couldn't
qualify for a bowl game, is basketball. so sorry they lost the first conference
game tonight. And Saturday will not be any better at Arizona. A sure win for the
Cats. too bad.
Gosh, more Chris B and his "anti-BYU" rhetoric. The only thing that
keeps me laughing rather than throwing up is that Chris B. is almost universally
wrong with his predictions. I hope he predicts Utah will play in the Rose Bowl
this next year and that BYU will lose every game. Did you see his prediction
that SDSU would win the Pointsettia Bowl? Laughable....that guy....and he
can't resist any article about BYU......he is fixated on the Cougars.
I love BYU almost as much as Chris B. hate the place. I don't blame Jordan.
The BYU QB situation was not pretty this last year. We have plenty of horse
power in the pipeline. Jordan will probably get a lot more playing time at USU.
Hope he does well, but not as well as my cougars.
Good luck Jordan. Moving from one to two isn't a bad move.
At least he may get to play. I wish him. Luck.
The best of luck to this young man. Hope USU continues in the direction it has
with the new coach.
re: Chrissy BCurious .. how low are you ranking your sorry utes now
... 3rd or 4th best in state ?
Wish him the best at USU. Good Luck.
If history is any indication, he will end up like Sorenson from SUU. Sorensen
is listed around the 10th best QB in the NFL draft. But instead Bronco wanted
Riley Nelson.LOL. Good luck in Logan kid. 2nd best program in the
state, and best team this past year!