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Published: Monday, Dec. 31 2012 10:40 a.m. MST

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motorbike
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Duckhunter

"So is the BYU football team as good as Notre Dame?"

The answer is no. First of all, Notre Dame was missing their starting quarterback against BYU ... kind of a big deal.

That said, BYU was a very good defensive team this year and in my opinion they really aren't a ton worse than Notre Dame, so props to your Cougars. However, I also believe Alabama is about to lay a smack down on Notre Dame and we'll finally see that the Fighting Irish were pretty lucky to land in the Championship game. Just ask undefeated Ohio State. And ask Stanford the same thing, as Notre Dame was fortunate to win that game.

So the bottom line is this ... BYU is good, and minus a Notre Dame starting quarterback they were close to AS GOOD as Notre Dame. Back to BYU and Utah basketball ... yes, this years Utah squad is every bit BYU's equal. I'd have no issue with someone stating that Utah would compete strongly for 2nd-4th in the WCC standing this year, just as BYU will be. Curious, what would your argument to that statement be?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@spokane dupe

BYU is certainly not "horrible" although they are not as good as they have been the last few years. utah is "horrible" however. BYU is an NCAA bubble team but with haws and davies they can certainly make it. Regardless BYU will win 20+ game while utah may have won its last game this year. But I do apprecitate the "frantic and emotional" response you gave me.

LOL!

@stg

Collinsworth is a 6'7" kid that can handle the ball, he is projected to maybe even be a point guard. hardly a "defensive role-playing wing player". Meanwhile BYU does have a couple of big men out on missions but BYU doesn't need a bunch of big men, banging it out inside is not how they play. They are a running up-tempo team and 6'7" guys that run are what they use.

Not to mention Haws is a star in the making and only a sophomore. I would imagine he improves with each year and will be the center piece. They'll keep being a 20+ win NCAA team for the next decade at least. I know that hurts you.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@motorbike

My argument to that statement is you are delusional. utah is not anywhere close to as good as BYU this year despite playing them close, and ultimately losing in embarrassingly inept fashion, their game. Playing one close game once a decade does not make them anywhere near as good. utah would not compete for 3rd or 4th in the wcc, they would compete for 9th or 10th. They are bad, they have played a bunch of bad teams and may have won their last game of the year. Personally I think they'll probably pull out a win or two against the worst pac12 teams but in reality that is the best you can hope for.

It starts with a trouncing tonight and continues on for the next couple of weeks.

Oh and who are the future NBA players on the utah team? I can think of at least 2 playing for BYU right now.

StGtoSLC
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

11:02, 11:09 am: extreme homerism combined with haterism at its finest. Sure, buddy, we'll see how that all plays out.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@ Ducky

I stand corrected, BYU is fair at best. As opposed to popping off with nothing to back it up; I looked into BYU's "bubble status". Per bracketology, they are not in the field, or included in the last 8 out. Yeppers, that's fair at best. Always nice to see you on the Utah threads trying to pick an agruement though. It's always great to see you lose a debate, then laugh while doing so. I guess you have to laugh, since no one else does. Kinda weird and juvenille though.

motorbike
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Duckhunter,

"BYU doesn't need a bunch of big men, banging it out inside is not how they play. They are a running up-tempo team and 6'7" guys that run are what they use."

You actually nailed that one right on the head, congrats. The problem however is this, BYU will never win more than one game in the NCAA tourney without a heroic Jimmer-type effort, while playing the style and the personnel you just mentioned. I like Rose and I don't blame him for coaching the way he does due to the players he's recently had. But a deep run in the tourney isn't in BYU's future with what you've just described.

I find it humorous that you can't fathom Utah competing with the 2-4 spots in the WCC even though the WCC has proven to be far worse this year than last year ... it's okay though, keep that delusion alive! It'll just be that much more enjoyable to watch Utah's rise back to state of Utah prominence. No I'm not saying Utah's there yet, but it's happening my friend ... sooner than you thought and still think.

Just Smiling
BOUNTIFUL, UT

Seriously byu fans....what satisfaction do you find in attacking a Utah football program that has beaten you 3 years in a row and a basketball team that you beat by 3 points while they are down and barely at the beginning point of rebuilding. When you watch top rated teams in bowl games and top rated basketball teams play each other you realize that both teams at both schools are mediocre at best. My opinion- Utah is a little better than BYU at football and BYU is a little better at basketball. Both of them are insignificant on the national elite level. These comments are like watching two 3rd stringers arguing who is best while the first stringers are playing.

B C
Park City, UT

Just Smiling

It's obviously going to take awhile longer for Ute nation to come to grips with the reality that one game - in football or basketball - does not a season make, UNLESS that one game is THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP game.

Utah fans can console themselves with head-to-head wins and a close loss if it helps them sleep at night, but

2011 - BYU(10-3), ranked > Utah(8-5), unranked
2012 - BYU(8-5), bowl winner > Utah(5-7), no bowl

Rose era - 6 NCAA tournaments, 7 20+ win seasons, and counting for 2012-13
Utah - 1 NCAA tournament, 1 20+ win season, during the last 8 seasons, with no chance of improving on those numbers this season

Only a Utah homer could look at those results and conclude anything other than BYU > Utah in football and basketball.

B C
Park City, UT

motorbike

I find it humorous that you could even remotely fathom Utah competing with the 2-4 spots in the WCC! A team that blew double-digit leads at home to Sac St and CSN isn't even close to being able to compete with BYU, Saint Mary's, or Santa Clara, despite your close loss at BYU. As often happens in close games like that, as soon as the superior team turned up the heated, the inferior team wilted under the pressure.

It's even more humorous to watch Utah fan predicting the rise of Utah back to state of Utah prominence. No need to even think that Utah's there yet; the Utes are no where close to that happening anytime soon my friend...

Hill is still so scared that he won't even schedule Weber State and Utah State.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

B C

Something really humerous is a BYU fan, trying to explain there schools relevance, on a thread regarding PAC 12 basketball. Stay on topic guy! It's not our fault BYU has never, nor never will, play in a BCS bowl; or made the final 4. Deal with and accept it. Quick, now turn on the spin cycle!

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

BC

Your football comparison is completely meaningless because the two teams played vastly different schedules. If the schedules were switched, logic would tell us that the records would switch as well...

No argument that BYU basketball has been better during the Rose era. Too bad BYU has nothing to show for it. Each team has one Sweet 16 appearance since 2005. Nobody cares about 20 win seasons, especially in the WCC. 14 seed last year (with 26 wins), and Rose has only been above a 7 seed once in all those twenty win seasons. For everything Rose has done BYU still has no respect.

Riddles in the Dark
Olympus Cove, Utah

Spokane Ute

Would you care to explain the relevance of a perennial conference bottom dweller in ANY conference or sport?

Your brief football BCS moments in the sun PALE in comparison BYU's decades of football accomplishments.

When the BCS championship game is played next week, pay particular attention to the American Football Coaches Association National Championship Trophy that is presented to the winner. You'll find an identical trophy on display in BYU's Athletic Hall of Fame.

When the National Football Foundation College Football Hall of Fame honors its latest group of of inductees at tonight's Sugar Bowl, BYU's Heisman Trophy winner, Ty Detmer, will be included in the group. BYU's sixth player so honored.

No spin cycle needed; the facts speak for themselves!

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Spin This, which school has 3 times the amount of players as the other, currently in the NFL? Which team has won 3 in a row and 8 of the last 11? Who's on who's thread trying to justify there schools relevance? Quick, to the time machine.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Riddle me this, what in the world does Ty Detmer have to do with Utah opening at Arizona State tonight?

Absoultely nothing, just another BYU fan trying to justify there programs existence. I guess that happen when you are the nomad of college football.

motorbike
Cottonwood Heights, UT

B C

Any idea what's wrong with this sentence of yours?

"[Utah] isn't even close to being able to compete with BYU, Saint Mary's, or Santa Clara, despite your close loss at BYU."

That pretty much puts the pretty bow on this entire thread.

PAC man
Anaheim, CA

Two For Flinching

"Your football comparison is completely meaningless because the two teams played vastly different schedules. If the schedules were switched, logic would tell us that the records would switch as well..."

Sorry, but there's absolutely no proof that switching schedules would have improved Utah's record.

The Utes would have lost to Utah State, Notre Dame, Boise State, Georgia Tech, San Jose State, Oregon State, and, given Utah's penchant for losing games they're not supposed to lose (see 10-loss Colorado and UNLV), the Utes would have dropped one more game to finish with the same 5-7 record they had with their PAC schedule.

-----------

Spokane Ute

You failed to explain how being a perennial conference bottom dweller in ANY conference in any sport makes U relevant.

PAC man
Anaheim, CA

motorbike

A close loss/win doesn't necessarily prove that two teams are closely matched or that they'd have similar records if they'd played the same schedule.

UCLA(10-3), a projected NCAA tourney team and a team that just beat #7 Missouri, LOST to Cal Poly(5-6), 70-68, a team that was DESTROYED by Saint Mary's, 86-68.

Nothing was wrong with the sentence; it's simply your logic that's flawed.

PAC man
Anaheim, CA

Spokane Ute

"Spin This, which school has 3 times the amount of players as the other, currently in the NFL?"

Spin This: Which school did BYU beat that had three of the first four players selected in that year's NFL draft, including the #1 overall pick?

btw, projected first round draft pick, Star Lotulelei, wasn't even good enough to get U into a bowl this year or help you beat a single PAC 12 opponent with a winning record.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@motorbike

You're struggling badly, let me help you. One game does not prove anything. Every year bad teams, like utah, have good games, while good teams, like BYU have bad games, and that results in a close game. In this case utah still lost for the 13th time in 14 tries and something like 8th or 9th in a row, I didn't look it up, but did manage to make it close for the 1st time in a very looooooooong time. Congratulations?

utah currently, with a drastically inferior schedule, has a worse record than BYU, and lost to BYU head to head for the aformentioned however many times. No utah is not as good, is not nearly as good, is not close to as good, and is in fact drastically worse. They are in a weak conference and will still finish with a losing record, I'll be surprised if they win more than 4 pac12 wins.

BYU will finish with 20+ wins, will play in the postseason, and of course still beat utah head to head for the umpteenth time.

Hope that helps you but I doubt it will.

agb
Layton, UT

Spokane ute:

The fact you're talking football to avoid talking about basketball (the subject of the article) is the definition of spin.

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