Duckhunter,I agree, ASU is not a team that will be world beaters
this year ... but the fact remains that you predicted a blowout. At least you
finally admitted the obvious which is that Utah didn't get trounced, this
alone is progress from you.Look, in all seriousness, no one,
including me, is saying Utah is incredible. They're far from incredible.
But it's not difficult for unbiased eyes to see that the Utes aren't
far below BYU's level this year. They're still below, but not by much.
Now depending on which new recruits stay home from missions and which
missionaries return, BYU could take a nice step forward next year that Utah may
not be able to match with new recruits etc. But again, THIS year, teams such as
Utah and ASU would be right behind BYU in the WCC standings as much as you
don't want to admit it. It's really Gonzaga and then a giant step down
to St Mary's and BYU. Santa Clara will prove to be weak and the rest of the
field is not good at all.Just the facts, that's all I'm saying.
@motorbikeThey lost. Sorry to have to break it to you but they LOST.
LOL!I admit they didn't get "trounced" but your
assertion about "ability to compete with good competition" is an LOL!
gem. asu is not "good competition" they only won 10 games last year and
played a crappy schedule similar to utah's this year in a feeble attempt to
get some pre-season "wins". They played 11 of their 13 pre season games
AT HOME against some extremely bad teams. 2 of their games came at a neutral
site in a tourney so they played exacly 1 road game.Their schedule
consisted of a whose who of bad teams. Just like utah's. I find
it interesting how utah "fans" like yourself want to ignore the abysmal
schedules utah and other pac12 teams are playing and pretend that their records
somehow indicate that they are good. If you are going to play almost all of your
games at home against bad teams then you are going to win most of them.
Duckhunter ...Yes they indeed did lose, very observant of you,
you're getting better at this. But in the process of a one point loss in
overtime it also pulled the carpet out from under your argument about where Utah
currently stands in their rebuilding process and ability to compete with good
competition. Don't worry though, despite your prediction of a
blowout, no one expects you to admit to having misguided opinions anytime soon -
we've come to know you better than that.
@motorbikeSure I'll check in, they lost. Again. Kind of
pathetic when the only consolation you can take is that I said they would get
"trounced" and then they managed to keep it close, yet still LOST.
Duckhunter,"It starts with a trouncing tonight"Care to check in and explain what happened? I guess we now know who's
wearing the shaded goggles.
agb, I'll give you a hint: start at the beginning of the comments section.
agbDo you often come on Utah threads to try and pick a fight?
Who's in denial about the current state of affairs with Utah Hoops? Utah
lost a close game, on the rosd, to a good ASU team. Utah basketball is on the up
swing. Nothing emabarrassing about that. Not near as emabarrassing as trolling
your rivals thread and trying to start an agruement. That's not only
emabarrassing, but really quite sad.
StGtoSlc :I checked. It was DH who brought up the score of BYU ND as
an analogy to prove a point about bball. From there it was u fans who steered
the conversation to players in the nfl etc.The only embarrassment is
u fan denial about the current state off affairs with the bball team.
agbLet's talk basketball Mr. Helper. Care to discuss last
nights game? So many of you BYU fans said Utah was going to get crushed. No
where to be found today; typical.
PAC manSo there is no proof that switching schedules would have
improved Utah's record.... as you tell us who exactly Utah would have lost
to on BYU's schedule, even though you have no proof. You're talking
out of both sides of your mouth.Personally I like Utah's
chances against USU if that game had been played in RES, I also think Utah could
have beaten GT (again) and SJSU. We do know that Wazzu was a win, and that
Weber, Idaho, NMSU, Hawaii would most likely be wins as well. As for the rest,
who really knows? There is a reason they play the game.....
motorbikeAs hard as it is for our crimson-goggled friends on the
hill to come to grips with, BYU is better in football, and MUCH better in
basketball, than the Utes.We know that's hard on mighty weak
Ute egos, but that's just the way it is.It's laughable
that Utah fans beat their chests every time the Utes beat a ranked team, then
pretend that rankings don't matter when BYU is ranked.Here's a clue: BYU BEAT a Top 25 team THIS YEAR, finished with a better
record, and won a bowl, while the Utes finished with a losing record and no
bowl.Only a delusional Utah fan would even try to argue that Utah
had a better football team this year.I'm sorry this is hurting
your precious egos, but that's just the way it is.
Hahahaha! We've got some serious blue-goggled dreamers out today. I love
how each and every one of you has to try and spin the 3 point victory over Utah
as something other than what it really is ... a game showing how very closely
talented these 2012-13 rosters actually are.The funniest thing of all,
it's you exact fans that continually claim that your football team is not
only close to as good as Utah when BYU loses the close games to Utah, but you in
fact claim your team is better! So which is it guys, you can't have it both
ways?! Oh wait, you're BYU fans so you actually can have it both ways.
LOL!Deal with it, Utah is nearly as good as your cougars this year and
would compete similarly in the terrible WCC. I'm sorry this is hurting your
precious egos so very, very much.
agb, you may want to check how the topic of football got brought up before
posting to save yourself the embarrassment of finding out after.
BC- why do I have a feeling you've never played athletics before and spent
your time in the math class???? You love statistics and rankings(which are
worthless after the top 10- after that it is win/loss record no matter how
mickey mouse your schedule is). That's why they play the game - If you win
3 out of 3 games in the last 3 years....you're better!Next year with a
little harder schedule (still not as difficult as a PAC-12 schedule) will change
your statistical and ranking banter. I'm sure you will then go back to the
1980's and a national championship win over a non-ranked team for your
Spokane ute:The fact you're talking football to avoid talking
about basketball (the subject of the article) is the definition of spin.
@motorbikeYou're struggling badly, let me help you. One game
does not prove anything. Every year bad teams, like utah, have good games, while
good teams, like BYU have bad games, and that results in a close game. In this
case utah still lost for the 13th time in 14 tries and something like 8th or 9th
in a row, I didn't look it up, but did manage to make it close for the 1st
time in a very looooooooong time. Congratulations?utah currently,
with a drastically inferior schedule, has a worse record than BYU, and lost to
BYU head to head for the aformentioned however many times. No utah is not as
good, is not nearly as good, is not close to as good, and is in fact drastically
worse. They are in a weak conference and will still finish with a losing record,
I'll be surprised if they win more than 4 pac12 wins.BYU will
finish with 20+ wins, will play in the postseason, and of course still beat utah
head to head for the umpteenth time. Hope that helps you but I
doubt it will.
Spokane Ute"Spin This, which school has 3 times the amount of
players as the other, currently in the NFL?"Spin This: Which
school did BYU beat that had three of the first four players selected in that
year's NFL draft, including the #1 overall pick?btw, projected
first round draft pick, Star Lotulelei, wasn't even good enough to get U
into a bowl this year or help you beat a single PAC 12 opponent with a winning
motorbikeA close loss/win doesn't necessarily prove that two
teams are closely matched or that they'd have similar records if
they'd played the same schedule.UCLA(10-3), a projected NCAA
tourney team and a team that just beat #7 Missouri, LOST to Cal Poly(5-6),
70-68, a team that was DESTROYED by Saint Mary's, 86-68.Nothing
was wrong with the sentence; it's simply your logic that's flawed.
Two For Flinching"Your football comparison is completely
meaningless because the two teams played vastly different schedules. If the
schedules were switched, logic would tell us that the records would switch as
well..."Sorry, but there's absolutely no proof that
switching schedules would have improved Utah's record.The Utes
would have lost to Utah State, Notre Dame, Boise State, Georgia Tech, San Jose
State, Oregon State, and, given Utah's penchant for losing games
they're not supposed to lose (see 10-loss Colorado and UNLV), the Utes
would have dropped one more game to finish with the same 5-7 record they had
with their PAC schedule.-----------Spokane UteYou failed to explain how being a perennial conference bottom dweller in ANY
conference in any sport makes U relevant.
B CAny idea what's wrong with this sentence of yours?"[Utah] isn't even close to being able to compete with BYU, Saint
Mary's, or Santa Clara, despite your close loss at BYU."That pretty much puts the pretty bow on this entire thread.
Riddle me this, what in the world does Ty Detmer have to do with Utah opening at
Arizona State tonight? Absoultely nothing, just another BYU fan
trying to justify there programs existence. I guess that happen when you are the
nomad of college football.
Spin This, which school has 3 times the amount of players as the other,
currently in the NFL? Which team has won 3 in a row and 8 of the last 11?
Who's on who's thread trying to justify there schools relevance?
Quick, to the time machine.
Spokane UteWould you care to explain the relevance of a perennial
conference bottom dweller in ANY conference or sport?Your brief
football BCS moments in the sun PALE in comparison BYU's decades of
football accomplishments.When the BCS championship game is played
next week, pay particular attention to the American Football Coaches Association
National Championship Trophy that is presented to the winner. You'll find
an identical trophy on display in BYU's Athletic Hall of Fame.When the National Football Foundation College Football Hall of Fame honors its
latest group of of inductees at tonight's Sugar Bowl, BYU's Heisman
Trophy winner, Ty Detmer, will be included in the group. BYU's sixth player
so honored.No spin cycle needed; the facts speak for themselves!
BCYour football comparison is completely meaningless because the two
teams played vastly different schedules. If the schedules were switched, logic
would tell us that the records would switch as well...No argument
that BYU basketball has been better during the Rose era. Too bad BYU has
nothing to show for it. Each team has one Sweet 16 appearance since 2005.
Nobody cares about 20 win seasons, especially in the WCC. 14 seed last year
(with 26 wins), and Rose has only been above a 7 seed once in all those twenty
win seasons. For everything Rose has done BYU still has no respect.
B CSomething really humerous is a BYU fan, trying to explain there
schools relevance, on a thread regarding PAC 12 basketball. Stay on topic guy!
It's not our fault BYU has never, nor never will, play in a BCS bowl; or
made the final 4. Deal with and accept it. Quick, now turn on the spin cycle!
motorbikeI find it humorous that you could even remotely fathom Utah
competing with the 2-4 spots in the WCC! A team that blew double-digit leads at
home to Sac St and CSN isn't even close to being able to compete with BYU,
Saint Mary's, or Santa Clara, despite your close loss at BYU. As often
happens in close games like that, as soon as the superior team turned up the
heated, the inferior team wilted under the pressure.It's even
more humorous to watch Utah fan predicting the rise of Utah back to state of
Utah prominence. No need to even think that Utah's there yet; the Utes are
no where close to that happening anytime soon my friend... Hill is
still so scared that he won't even schedule Weber State and Utah State.
Just SmilingIt's obviously going to take awhile longer for Ute
nation to come to grips with the reality that one game - in football or
basketball - does not a season make, UNLESS that one game is THE NATIONAL
CHAMPIONSHIP game.Utah fans can console themselves with head-to-head
wins and a close loss if it helps them sleep at night, but2011 -
BYU(10-3), ranked > Utah(8-5), unranked2012 - BYU(8-5), bowl winner
> Utah(5-7), no bowlRose era - 6 NCAA tournaments, 7 20+ win
seasons, and counting for 2012-13Utah - 1 NCAA tournament, 1 20+ win
season, during the last 8 seasons, with no chance of improving on those numbers
this seasonOnly a Utah homer could look at those results and
conclude anything other than BYU > Utah in football and basketball.
Seriously byu fans....what satisfaction do you find in attacking a Utah football
program that has beaten you 3 years in a row and a basketball team that you beat
by 3 points while they are down and barely at the beginning point of rebuilding.
When you watch top rated teams in bowl games and top rated basketball teams play
each other you realize that both teams at both schools are mediocre at best. My
opinion- Utah is a little better than BYU at football and BYU is a little better
at basketball. Both of them are insignificant on the national elite level. These
comments are like watching two 3rd stringers arguing who is best while the first
stringers are playing.
Duckhunter,"BYU doesn't need a bunch of big men, banging it
out inside is not how they play. They are a running up-tempo team and
6'7" guys that run are what they use."You actually
nailed that one right on the head, congrats. The problem however is this, BYU
will never win more than one game in the NCAA tourney without a heroic
Jimmer-type effort, while playing the style and the personnel you just
mentioned. I like Rose and I don't blame him for coaching the way he does
due to the players he's recently had. But a deep run in the tourney
isn't in BYU's future with what you've just described.I find it humorous that you can't fathom Utah competing with the 2-4
spots in the WCC even though the WCC has proven to be far worse this year than
last year ... it's okay though, keep that delusion alive! It'll just
be that much more enjoyable to watch Utah's rise back to state of Utah
prominence. No I'm not saying Utah's there yet, but it's
happening my friend ... sooner than you thought and still think.
@ DuckyI stand corrected, BYU is fair at best. As opposed to popping
off with nothing to back it up; I looked into BYU's "bubble
status". Per bracketology, they are not in the field, or included in the
last 8 out. Yeppers, that's fair at best. Always nice to see you on the
Utah threads trying to pick an agruement though. It's always great to see
you lose a debate, then laugh while doing so. I guess you have to laugh, since
no one else does. Kinda weird and juvenille though.
11:02, 11:09 am: extreme homerism combined with haterism at its finest. Sure,
buddy, we'll see how that all plays out.
@motorbikeMy argument to that statement is you are delusional. utah
is not anywhere close to as good as BYU this year despite playing them close,
and ultimately losing in embarrassingly inept fashion, their game. Playing one
close game once a decade does not make them anywhere near as good. utah would
not compete for 3rd or 4th in the wcc, they would compete for 9th or 10th. They
are bad, they have played a bunch of bad teams and may have won their last game
of the year. Personally I think they'll probably pull out a win or two
against the worst pac12 teams but in reality that is the best you can hope for.
It starts with a trouncing tonight and continues on for the next
couple of weeks.Oh and who are the future NBA players on the utah
team? I can think of at least 2 playing for BYU right now.
@spokane dupeBYU is certainly not "horrible" although they
are not as good as they have been the last few years. utah is "horrible"
however. BYU is an NCAA bubble team but with haws and davies they can certainly
make it. Regardless BYU will win 20+ game while utah may have won its last game
this year. But I do apprecitate the "frantic and emotional" response you
gave me.LOL!@stgCollinsworth is a
6'7" kid that can handle the ball, he is projected to maybe even be a
point guard. hardly a "defensive role-playing wing player". Meanwhile
BYU does have a couple of big men out on missions but BYU doesn't need a
bunch of big men, banging it out inside is not how they play. They are a running
up-tempo team and 6'7" guys that run are what they use. Not
to mention Haws is a star in the making and only a sophomore. I would imagine he
improves with each year and will be the center piece. They'll keep being a
20+ win NCAA team for the next decade at least. I know that hurts you.
@Duckhunter"So is the BYU football team as good as Notre
Dame?"The answer is no. First of all, Notre Dame was missing
their starting quarterback against BYU ... kind of a big deal. That
said, BYU was a very good defensive team this year and in my opinion they really
aren't a ton worse than Notre Dame, so props to your Cougars. However, I
also believe Alabama is about to lay a smack down on Notre Dame and we'll
finally see that the Fighting Irish were pretty lucky to land in the
Championship game. Just ask undefeated Ohio State. And ask Stanford the same
thing, as Notre Dame was fortunate to win that game.So the bottom
line is this ... BYU is good, and minus a Notre Dame starting quarterback they
were close to AS GOOD as Notre Dame. Back to BYU and Utah basketball ... yes,
this years Utah squad is every bit BYU's equal. I'd have no issue with
someone stating that Utah would compete strongly for 2nd-4th in the WCC standing
this year, just as BYU will be. Curious, what would your argument to that
Pac-12 primer: Zona's title to lose, according to Andy KatzWins
to brag about: Arizona over Florida in Tucson and then beating San Diego State
in the Diamond Head Classic.Losses that sting: Sacramento State and
Cal State-Northridge winning at Utah.Anticipated NCAA bids: Arizona,
Oregon and UCLARevised predictions:#1 Arizona - Zona's
race to lose#11 Utah - improved, but still bottom of the PAC
How did this article turn from the woes of the Utes to bashing BYU? Get over it
folks. Utah will still be the bottom dweller of the PAC 10.2 or of any
conference in the country for many years. Let's leave them alone to suffer
in silence.How did the big brother down south do in their bowl game
and how did the Utes do in theirs? Oh, never mind.
I find it amussing that BYU fans are on this thread bragging about there team.
Actually, it's just the usual band of Haters. BYU just got dumped by 21
points against Iowa State. Gonzaga will crush BYU, both home and away. No
tournament for BYU, they are horrible. Utah will finish in the
middle of the conference. The PAC 12 is down this year. Sorry, but neither BYU
or Utah are very good this year. That's reality, a concept BYU fans have
Duckhunter, so a defensive role-playing wing player will make up for a lack of
post presence after Davies graduates? Pardon my skepticism, but I'm not
@stg"Are there some amazing players currently serving misions
that I don't know about that will be returning soon?"Apparently so. Collinsworth for one. Remember him? The kid that turned down
Stanford and half the other teams in the country to play for BYU.
@motorbikeSo because utah managed to play, and still lose for the
13th time in the last 14 tries, a close game once in the last several years they
are all of a sudden as good as BYU. Let me just say thisLOL!So is the BYU football team as good as Notre Dame? You guys
sure are easy to slap around. LOL!
CFIT, "This is the weakest BYU team in the past 5 years, and likely the
weakest one U will see for the next 5 years."What makes you
think next year or the year after will be any better? You'll be losing your
best big man in years in Davies, and is that entire 2013 recruiting class not
expected to defer enrollment for two years? Anyway, I was told all year up until
November that last year was the "rebuilding" season. Are there some
amazing players currently serving misions that I don't know about that will
be returning soon?
re: Dave S - "I predict the Utes will finish the Pac-12 in a higher seed in
their conference than byu does in the WCC or whatever their conference is this
year so let's talk at the end of conference play."You're joking, right? Even though the PAC12 is weaker than expected,
Utah will still finish 10th, 11th or 12th. BYU will finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th in
the WCC. Four conference wins will be about all Utah can get. But that is
better than last year. If Utah finishes above.500, the PAC12 is weaker than I
thought.Playing teams like Willamette and College of Idaho did
nothing to prepare U for your conference schedule. It simply over-inflated fans
expectations.BYU is likely the only team U played that has a shot at
dancing in March, and we are not a shoe-in. This is the weakest BYU team in the
past 5 years, and likely the weakest one U will see for the next 5 years.
Dave SDude, I'm a Ute fan through and through but lets not get
ahead of ourselves. BYU could be one of the worst teams in the country and still
have a decent shot at finishing 2nd in the WCC. Utah will be very fortunate to
finish any better than 8th or 9th in the PAC-12 ... and that's being kind
to our Utes.Duckhunter"Utah is the worst basketball
program in a major conference in the entire nation. They are absolutely
terrible."Yet your Cougars needed a 7-minute scoring drought by
Utah to pull off the 3-point win - at home no less. So you're either saying
that BYU would have about the same chances as Utah in regard to competing in the
PAC-12, or that Utah, "the worst basketball program in a major
conference", is still good enough to compete at the top of the WCC. Hmmm,
based on that I guess we Utes should say thank you.
Re: DuckhunterYou're hatred of anything Utah continues to cause
you to make embarassing and ill-informed remarks. No, the Utes aren't back
yet but even the casual BB fan can see that they are on their way.However, the fun of it is- the Utes will be playing in places like Pauley
Pavillion and BYU will be tearing it up in the Slim Gym. ha! Enjoy your
"exposure"- to 500 fans.
Dave S says:In fact, I predict the Utes will finish the Pac-12
in a higher seed in their conference than byu does in the WCC or whatever
their conference is this year so let's talk at the end of conference
play."The whatever the conference is this year" is the same
one that had more teams ncaa tourney last year than the PAC.And as far as Utah "being back" which one of the 8 wins on their
schedule proves that? Any big names? Or are most of them from a "whatever conference?"
Hmm, just to interject a little sanity here Jason King in his article - Ten
observations from 2012's final Saturday - on ESPN said "As bad as the
Towson loss was for OSU coach Craig Robinson, who entered the season on the hot
seat, it was even more damaging for the Pac-12, whose reputation was in shambles
following a 2011-12 campaign so embarrassing that its regular-season champion
(Washington) didn't even get an NCAA tournament bid. As if the
Beavers' meltdown wasn't bad enough, the conference took another hit
Saturday when Cal lost to depleted Harvard. At home. Arizona and UCLA may be
better but, overall, this is still a very bad league. Sorry if that stings, but
it is the truth. If the Pac-12 was good, then Cal and Oregon State wouldn't
lose home games to Harvard and Towson, Arizona State wouldn't get blown out
by DePaul, Washington wouldn't lose to Albany and USC wouldn't lose to
UC-Irvine. Utah wouldn't lose to Cal State Northridge and ... well, you get
Re: DuckhunterWhat Utah B-ball team are you talking about? Climb
out from the plastic bubble and realize the Utes are on their way back and are
doing it in much quicker fashion than most thought possible after last season!!
This is the same Ute team that lead your mighty byu team almost the entire game
only to blow it in the last two minutes.In fact, I predict the Utes
will finish the Pac-12 in a higher seed in their conference than byu does in the
WCC or whatever their conference is this year so let's talk at the end of
@silent lurker"BYU would win the PAC 12 in basketball when pigs
fly."Perhaps, but one thing we know for sure, utah will not win
it. utah is the worst basketball program in a major conference in the entire
nation. They are absolutely terrible. It must be a lot of fun for you following
that program. LOL!
That wonderful historical school called the U will finish last in the conference
of chumps and would finish last in the WCC, WAC, MWC, and probably the Big
Sky.Oh how the mighty (at least in their own eyes) have fallen!
In the spirit of fair and balanced reporting, this article should have mentioned
the caliber of the pre-season schedule. USC lost to teams like Illinois,
Marquette, San Diego St, New Mexico and Nebraska. Utah beat teams like
Willamette, Idaho St, College of Idaho, Texas State.
BYU would win the PAC 12 in basketball when pigs fly.
"USC just lost... Good thing for the pac that football is over."PAC football continues as Stanford plays tomorrow against Wisconsin, then
Oregon plays Kansas State on Thursday.
USC just lost... Good thing for the pac that football is over. I hear the name
WAC will be available next year. Just thinking out loud.
BYU would win the PAC 12 easily.