The real problem is greed. People want "money for nothing." If someone
offers it and they are religious, they think, "Well, I've been good,
this is the way the Lord is going to bless me." And he does.After you lose your money you end up getting humble. And there are
blessings in that. You end up realizing how dependent you are on the Lord.
There are blessings in that too. Sigh.I regret that any
man or woman in any position of authority would abuse that position. But,
"we have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of
almost all men... to exercise unrighteous dominion." Unfortunately, it is not limited to those in the church. But it is
disheartening when it happens in the church.Read "Approaching
Zion," Nibley's book on economics. He suggests that we cannot build
Zion using the means and methods of Babylon. He also suggests that if we would
follow the biblical injunction: "Having food and raiment, therewith be
content," we would live happier more productive lives, build the church
better and faster - and of course, be far less prone to fall for schemes
promising enormous returns.
I don't think any bishop should be trying to get his congregation to invest
in his business. Leave business out of church. I wouldn't trust any bishop
using his members to make money.
Remember: Judas Iscariot was an apostle -- and a thief. Don't put your
trust in the arm of flesh (Jeremiah 17:5) even when that flesh holds a high
office of trust in the Lord's Church.
If they prayed about it and received good feelings then it would have eventually
worked out. I have no doubt about that. Need more faith so our prayers can be
Angrymonkey - it is not hard to be a business man when you steal money from your
congregation. Furthermore, he has judgements against him, which means he has not
been a successful businessman. He used his religious position to influence
others to give him money. That is very low, and I don't see how people fall
for it. I have been approached by fools trying to get me to do the same thing.
They think they are good at what they do. But here is the key.... Ask alot of
questions. The more questions you ask, the more confusing their stories usually
get if they are a fraud. Keep asking them, and take note of the answers. Then
ask them the same questions again and you will get different answers. You see,
liars are good at lying, but not good at keeping their lies straight.
Why is it that people are so fearful about checking out a company by just doing
a 10 sec search on the Internet? It never ceases to amaze the greed that
motivates someone to sell their soul by committing fraud as well as those who
see big dollar signs just by handing over all the cash they can find to a crook.
I cam still recall the larger Utah schemes that promised double your money in 30
days and people were so idiotic to go for it. Ya some legit company is going to
say NO to borrowing from banks at maybe 6% because they so badly want to pay Bro
Brown 600% for his Iives savings. Think people!
@TheAngryMonkey28, that's just a super example of forgiveness. No; wait . .
not forgiveness, the other thing. What's it called? Oh, yeah --
"willful blindness."If the guy didn't appear kind and
loving and wasn't able to influence people, this couldn't have
happened. You don't often hear about con-men who were arrogant jerks to
everyone around them. Kind of defeats the whole purpose.And your
protestations about the article singling out ward members are petty. Of course
many investors outside his ward were involved. Anyone who reads at an 8th grade
level understands that. If $50K got your friend a 1% stake, obviously the 99%
came from elsewhere. Nowhere does this "sensational" article imply most
or all of the funds came from the ward.The fact that you and your
victim friend are still so pro-Reid does give me an idea, though. I've got
a great idea for a can't-miss business. Would the two of you like to invest
$25k apiece? I prefer cash.
Pretty high profile case like this in Austin, TX that went to trial last year.
Member of the Church had a $75m Ponzi scheme going and recruited Heisman Trophy
winners as pitchmen. Ty Detmer was one of them that "invested" $2m.
Only about $20m went to the stated purposes of the investments, the rest to line
the pockets of Kurt Barton. He got sentenced to 17 years in prison, lost his
family. Of course, it came to light when people wanted their investment money
back. One drunk woman forced her way into his office with a loaded pistol,
pointed it at Barton demanding her $150k back. Ironically, he was meeting with
another man at the time who wanted his $400k back.
Besides being a trusted clergyman, Mr. Reid was a successful businessman, this
also was a contributing factor as to why these people trusted him and with their
money. Something the author failed to divulge in her sensationalistic
article.My friend loves the bishop and hopes that the truth will
come out...and I hope that the truth will too.I love Bishop Reid and
always will. He was and is the most kind, loving, and influential man I have
ever dealt with in my life. I don’t know if Bishop Reid is guilty or not.
That, thankfully, is not for me to decide.But, it should be
remembered that no matter what the outcome may be, we all do good and bad things
in our lives. There is good and bad in all of us. Repentance and Forgiveness is
the key and I will choose to love the Bishop for the good that he brought to my
life and to many others, even if he is guilty.
I was a member of the 14th Ward while Mr. Reid was the bishop.I am
also very good friends with the ex-Executive Secretary of whom the article
quotes.I am afraid that the story is very misleading in that it
makes it seem as if my friend is the one bringing charges against the bishop, he
is not. It is the State of Utah, The Attorney General‘s office that has
decided to charge the Mr. Reid. The State of Utah has interviewed all of the
"primary" investors involved in this case.The author, trying
to get her story read by throngs of people, decided to report on the story that
Mr. Reid was a bishop and former members of the ward invested in this
business.The author could have and very possibly did interview many
other investors for this article. However, in her desire to capture
reader’s attention with a sensationalistic story she decided to single out
my friend because of the relationship that he and some of the investors had with
the bishop through the church.The fact is that there were many more
investors involved in this than just members of the ward.
It happens everywhere, not just Utah. People are people, and some are bad,
regardless of their religious affiliation.
@Maxof course no one thinks this problem is exclusive to utah or
mormons. it's just funny to me because i've seen 3 instances of this
very problem in 2 different wards i've attended in the past.
Its so easy to say dont be gullible. We as a society are not educated or trained
to confront fraud artists. They are very very good at what they do. It is
impossible to prevent this from happening. Just hope the opportunity doesnt come
knocking at your door.
@Bigv56 and EightOhOne Oh naive ones if you think it only happens in
Utah. Be careful. Affinity fraud runs rampant everywhere.
When you mix religion with business things often go south. Too many people get
caught up with thinking with their emotions and not thinking with their heads.
"but...but...but...but he's a bishop! surely he wouldn't rip me
off!!!" lol, just like the previous comments, an all too often occurrence
here in good 'ol utah
We watch this happen over and over in Utah. Don't you people read the news?
If it is too good to be true it is too good to be true.refer to the first
posting. Have some healthy skepticism. That is advice from the church way back
in the eighties.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It keeps happening over and over and
over again. If super spiritual Brother Jones offers you a once in a lifetime
investment opportunity with extraordinary returns and no (or very little) risk
RUN THE OTHER WAY. People who value their faith simply do not use their
religious ties to enrich themselves. Their faith means too much to them. I feel
so sorry for these people who believed this man to be honest based on his church
service. But the economic reality is that there is a positive relationship
between risk and return. There is no getting around that -- even if you are a