Comments about ‘Critics say NRA solution to school shootings expensive, unproductive’

NRA answer to school violence is arming police in every school. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 98,817 public schools during the 2009-2010 school year and 33,366 in private schools totaling 132,183 schools requiring double that number of armed police in schools.

Firearms-related murder victims dropped from more than 17,000 in 1993 to 9,903 in 2011. On balance real progress has been made. Waiting in the wings are always deranged individuals with supposed grievances and an axe to grind. There are no 100% precautions possible to rid potential assassins of guns as they will steal weapons, already common. The most difficult to find and control are individual assassins who keep their inclinations and intent to themselves.

Every solution creates at least two new problems and the most obvious and least insidious solution might be the posting of the Ten Commandments in each school room and perhaps reading them to start each week of school, much like reciting the National Anthem. It’s like the question of whether chicken soup can cure a cold; the comedic answer being, “It can’t hurt.”

In 2000 President Bill Clinton pushed for more armed cops in schools.
Was he an NRA rightwing nutjob?
Just sayin'.

There are no Silver Linings in the death of 20 children, but it does appear that the this horrible school shooting will finally expose the NRA's on-going lack of common sense. The NRA is only commitment is to gun sales. It is my sincere hope that this national exposure of the NRA's agenda will help motivate timid legislators to act. The NRA is a political bully. They have threatened legislators, encouraged its member to write threatening letters to members of Congress, and have used schoolyard bullying tactics to prevent any reasonable gun legislation. Hunters and hobbyists are not the problem. It is the fear mongering NRA leadership that is creating serious problems across America.

Ms Martindale's reaction is obviously knee jerk. She thinks banning high capacity magazines will stop the problem. Not at all. A bad buy with 4 15 round magazines can shoot just as much as one with two 30 round magazines. Only difference? Reload twice more. Other than that, same problem. Putting cops in the schools is an excellent idea. It would give cops a chance to actually stop something before it starts instead of always getting there after when they can't do anything but clean up. IT changes them from being reactive to active.

Until we change society through education, teaching that some things are right and some things are wrong, morals, ethics, and the good old Golden Rule, instead of the do what you want mentality because you might offend someone, we will have a need to protect ourselves. One armed good guy could have stopped all of the recent tragedies in their tracks. Had the principle at Sandy Hook been armed and trained, she might not have been the first victim.

I'd rather have a volunteer armed in a school willing to give their life to protect students than a liberal that thinks guns are bad.

I have a Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP). I feel much safer, knowing that if I am found in a dangerous and/or life threatening situation, that I have the "option" to assess the situation, and if necessary, take defensive or offensive action. People, who have a CFP, are required to have their firearm "concealed" at all times. Only law enforcement officers should be permitted to "openly" carry a firearm. If it is well-known in our communities and public schools, that a number of people in our schools, are "trained and armed" to protect themselves and their students, the chance of even one of these cowards, entering the school in the first place, is slim to none. And, if this was our “standard” throughout the nation, these senseless killings in our schools, would stop.

There’s no doubt, that a number of teachers and administrators would be willing to receive the necessary CFP training. The only cost is the initial investment and a CFP license renewal every five years. For the well-being of the children, all they need to know is that they are protected.

@one old man: Yes, because hyperbole and sophistry are both so very useful when solving problems.

@atl134: How many children today alone have gotten a "head shot" merit in some video game? How many children today have killed other children? Now where is the most logical place to put blame? Personally, I like guns for both personal protection and the protection of my liberties. It looks to me that the NRA is defending my 2nd Amendment rights, which is why I signed up for a lifetime membership after their announcement yesterday.

@LeDoc: There's no such thing as an "assault weapon." That's media hype and propaganda. Also, the majority of murders in the U.S. are committed with cheap handguns.

Despite media hype, there have been less mass murders in the U.S. this century so far than there were in the 1990s (26 vs. 42 respectively). That there are any is definitely a problem worth looking into, but blaming it on guns is just stupid. The ACLU laws that make it almost impossible to intervene and identify dangerous people are more to blame than guns.

@LeDoc: First of all, Obama was wrong. We have MORE bayonets these days. You can outlaw horses if you want though.

Secondly, what was the difference between the Sandy Hook shootings and the recent shooting in Texas at the crowded movie theater for "The Hobbit?" Oh, yes, a good guy with a gun. You can't argue with the facts here. Good guys with guns save lives.

Thirdly, your average J. Doe doesn't have access to "military weaponry." That is agenda-based media sophistry for political gain.

Fourthly, it's fine to love your neighbor, but what if he is insane and comes into your house to kill you and your family? Christ also taught his followers to defend themselves, as shown so many times in the Bible (and LDS scriptures if you lean that way).

Finally, Korea ban guns, yet you still have the mass murder by an arsonist at the Daegu Subway in 2003, which killed at least 198 people, for instance. How many were children? In fact, the worse mass murders in the U.S. in the last 100 years have not been gun related at all.

The thing is that if you ban these weapons you are infriging on the rights of the public sector to bear arms, a guaranteed right provided for by the Constitution. Sure laws can be made to ban semi-automatic assualt weapons, or even to make it harder to get a weapon. However, each time the law is done a criminal mind or a suicidal manic will find a way to kill. These you can not stop. There are black market gun markets already in this country and they are selling fully automatic M-16s to the highest bidder. Our dear President knows this but no he would rather place the blame on the makers of these weapons than on our society in general. It has been said of the United States, that we would not be destroyed by outside forces but from within our own boundaries. The most obvious choice is always to put a band-aid on it, kiss it and the hurt goes away. That is what we do when we ban the selling of semi-automatic assualt rifles from the public. Some how though they seem to always end up in criminal hands.

The idea that any sane-thinking person could claim that the Sandy Hook murders were cause by guns, or that passing more gun laws are going to stop mass murders in the U.S. is absolutely unbelievable, and shows just how ignorant our population really is.

The worst mass murders in the U.S. during the last hundred years haven't had anything to do with guns. The worst massacre at a school in U.S. history was the Bath, Michigan School Massacre of 1927. 44 individuals killed (about the same as both Virginia Tech and Columbine combined) and not a single shot fired. Then you have the Alfred P. Murrah building, 168 dead, not a single shot fired. Then, of course, you have the September 11th attacks. Again, not a single shot fired.

The idea that guns cause people to kill other people, or that tighter regulation or a ban on guns will cause murderers not to murder is asinine and shows a complete lack of common sense or an understanding of history.

I agree that half the problem are video games and movies, but they make too much money so they can't be touched. You will see all of these Hollywood stars speak out about gun control, but they wouldn't dare talk about how their movies contribute to the problem.

Look at every individual who has been at the center of these violent shootings. Find out how they ended up where they did. Solve the people problem, not the symptoms.

In the 1960s, we said "can't pray in school." In the 1970s, we said it's okay to rip an innocent child from it's mother's womb. In the 1980s we said "can't display the 10 commandments in public." In the last 20 years we've seen ridiculously violent video games and movies. The sanctity of life has slipped tremendously. We don't respect each other as human beings. We used to tell kids "respect your elders." Now we tell parents they can go to jail for appropriate discipline. In the 40s we sent 18 year old kids to the battle field and they saved the world. Now we have to provide 20 counselors to kids because some kid got hit by a car crossing the street and we're afraid they're so fragile they can't cope. Our society is devolving. Families are disintegrating. Fix the family and you'll go a long, long way to fixing these violent shootings.

It is easy to focus on the gun and hard to focus on the mental illness of the person holding the gun

@mark: You certainly CAN make a gun "in your own bathtub." Is is actually quite easy.

@one old man: What is wrong with an armed volunteer? Are "volunteers" somehow too stupid to be trained on how to use a gun responsibly?

@cjb: Yours is both an excellent and responsible idea.

@10cc: You can't set off a concealed weapon by hugging somebody if it is properly holstered. Besides, teachers shouldn't be hugging kids anyway. I know it is sad, but that is the world we live in.

@Free Agency: Nobody is recommending barbed wire, machine gun nests, and Air Force fly-overs. Walk around outside today and I guarantee you'll see at least a few people carrying guns. I'll bet you can't point them out though. If you can't, how will kids? Also, you can't solve a problem by blaming the problem on something that had absolutely nothing to do with the problem you're trying to solve.

I would like to know from all the critics of the NRA what expense it would cost to deal with killers by treating their mental health such as Ms. Martindale suggests in the article. I would submit that it would be a whole lot more expensive and a lot less reliable than what the NRA is suggesting. Particularly when a major study supports the NRA position, it is amazing that people are supporting programs that don't work, have never worked, and only placate the politically correct faction of our country while in the meantime, these criminals get a free pass to gun their way into schools and movie theatres which are designated as gun-free zones. Rather than provide an officer at each school, the state could provide training for concealed weapon permits to key positions at schools such as certain administrative officers. That would probably send a warning to those who wish to create terror in our society and would not bear the costs associated with bad solutions to this ever-growing problem.

We need to keep in mind in this discussion that murders occurred before there were guns and that if we get rid of guns murders will continue. As a matter of fact China has more of a problem with people attacking children and teachers at school than we do. Over there they use swords and knives. What we have is a cultural problem. Guns are merely the tool of choice. Take them away and the misfits will turn to using a different tool.

There are security guards at airports, court houses, many malls, banks, sporting events, the social security office, and even hospitals. If you don't want to protect students too, then the solution is simple -- home school them.

Clinton:

The deaths in Bath, Michigan were attributed to explosives but Kenoe (the killer) used his rifle to detonate the explosives and went to the school "armed".

I do NOT advocate removing all guns.

I DO advocate sensible enforcement of the first part of the Second Amendment. You know, that part about "Well Regulated."

Close the gun show loophole and limit military weaponry to the military.

Guns and mental health care are issues that will require a lot of very careful thought. That is something that seems to be beyond the reach of many Americans -- especially our law makers and lobbyists. Wayne LaPierre and the NRA are not helping with any solutions. They are adding some very terrible and evil schemes into an already volatile mix.

It would be well if you right wing gun persons take into consideration the fact that there was an armed guard at Columbine for all the good it did. You are supposeldly all about small govermnent, Do you know what an expansion of Government guns and Gunman in every school would be? Think of larger schools where mulitple armed guards we have to on site and the cost of the support techology to give them the bearest chance to be effective.

Now with that you may have satisfied yourselves that you have protected schools. Now what are you going to do for Shopping Centers, Movie Complexes, Sporting events, public buildings. Taking this to the logical exteme the only safe place might be at your local police station. Lets, have armed guards standing by ATM's, Churches, Parks, and for concealed weapons protection we will need magnetic detectors and the routine strip search.

A few years ago, I personally witnessed how difficult it may be to remove guns from the hands of people with questionable mental status.

I took a CERT class in a small northern Utah city. One of the instructors was a "superpatriot" who strutted around with a very ill concealed 9mm Glock on his hip along with two extra clips. He went on frequently at great length about the need to be "prepared" and let us know that he was ready to defend us when the time came. He also showed us an arsenal in his car's trunk.

Many of his comments were so off the wall, that several members of the class became concerned enough to approach police about it. We wound up speaking with the police chief who told us that he was well aware of the man's behavior. We were not the only ones who had expressed concern.

But, he added, "There is nothing we can do about it until he acts out in some way. I've checked and double checked. I'm awfully sure he will do something someday. And I'm afraid it will be terrible."