It seems to me that the government over the years has taken the benefits from
the employer and made them a right. It use to be that the employer would
provide these benefits and in many instances there were and still are limitation
on those benefits. More an more the government is making these benefits a
worker right requiring all employer to provide the same insurance. It is a slippery slope we have been on over the last few decades. When will
it end? I guess when the government controls all aspects of our lives. Then we
will wonder where our freedoms went.
This whole discussion illuminates the absurdity of using employers as the
delivery system for health insurance.
Does anyone else think this whole conflict is a conservative invention? It
reminds me of all the times people say something stupid but relatively harmless,
and then talking heads (on both sides) go on TV and feign outrage and behave as
if they simply can't function unless they get a prompt apology.That said, the sooner we decouple insurance and medical care from our jobs
(employers) the better.
Contraception can indeed be used for medical reasons.
The ideas of the extremists continue to get more and more contorted.Contraception has long been a fundamental component of healthcare (I.e.,
insurance), and is part of overall compensation packages. For extremist
employers to presume that they know best what employees should or should not do
with the compensation employees have earned, is the height of arrogance.And for these same employers to presume they have they moral, medical,
social, and political expertise sufficient to make sweeping choices about the
healthcare packages insurance companies, preferred provider networks, and other
health management companies provide, is just downright ignorant.What
these vocal extremists amount to is fanatic religionists run amok, trying to
make a statement to compensate for the fact that their personal faith is
becoming increasingly irrelevant in the world today.
@ SS: Contraception is very much a medical need and is used for a great many
things besides preventing pregnancy - but even if that is all it is used for,
what business is it of my employer's what medical care I am receiving from
my doctor?For all of you who don't think it is a medical issue
and should not be covered on insurance, are you willing to have it sold as an
over the counter, no prescription or permission needed, available to anyone who
wants to buy it, product?Contraception does have some potential side
effects - all medication does. But the main reason it is a prescription
medication is so that your 12 year old daughter cannot walk into Walmart and buy
it off the shelf without your permission. You don't want me to use
insurance for contraception? Fine. Don't require me to have a note from
the doctor to buy it. But as long as I need a prescription to buy it, it is a
medical need and should've covered by medical insurance the same as any
other medical need.
Wow, I can't believe people. All of a sudden contraceptives are equivalent
to funding our military and blood transfusions. How are contraceptives in anyway
related to one's health? If someone wants to participate in those
activities than they should pay for them. It should not be insured! It's a
joke! Should someones right to drinking or participating in other recreational
activities be insured through their employers? Or should they have to pay for it
with their own wages? The answer is obvious. People are irresponsible and want
handouts, that is what this comes down to, plain and simple. If you want to play
baseball, you need to buy a glove and a bat. If you want to participate in
activities that require contraceptives, pay for them. This is ridiculous.
I hope that all of those who are worried about the "loss" of religious
freedom will support my right not to support wars that are against my religion
through my tax dollars. I guarantee that through my taxes I will pay far more
to fight wars that I do not believe in than will ever be used to pay for
contraceptives. I don't hear anyone fighting for my religious freedom to
avoid paying these taxes.
@ History Nut: "So if my company is owned by Jehovah's Witnesses,
should they have the right to preclude coverage for blood transfusions?"****yes**** -- as far as what THEY pay for. A reasonable work-around
would the insurance companies offering supplemental pay-for-it-yourself coverage
if your own desire for specific coverage is that important to you. You could
have your transfusion, abortion pill, whatever without disrespecting your
employers moral beliefs.
So if my company is owned by Jehovah's Witnesses, should they have the
right to preclude coverage for blood transfusions?
When an employer is forced to provide some element of compensation that violates
their religious beliefs, protected by the First Amendment, that violates THEIR
rights.If an employee demands that religiously objectionable
[whatever] then they are free to find an employer with no religious beliefs who
provides it. Or the employer should be free to just tell employees that they
will no longer provide health care of any sort, and that employees can buy
whatever they like with the money they earn. If that is not allowed (as will be
the case under Obamacare) then the employer always has the option of deciding
they do not want to run a business anymore. Lock the doors, and go live off
their savings, and let the former employees collect food stamps or starve or
whatever they like. There is NO obligation for any person to start
a business, risk capital, or work long hour, just to provide jobs for others.
The profit motive has created millions of good paying jobs. Destroy the profit
motive, or impose rules contrary to religious beliefs, and many of those jobs
will vanish. Don't like that? Start your own company!
Kalindra, No one is saying you can't go and by contraception with
your wages just as you would your groceries. Why should it have to be insured?
People are so lazy it's ridiculous. Contraception is not a medical right or
need. And despite what you may think, when contraception is added to insurance
plans the prices will go up, what do you think pays for all of it? It's
logic, if you are receiving more, you are paying more and your employer will
have to pay more to provide you with "higher quality" insurance plans.
Why can't people just buy it themselves like normal people?
@ Tek: Nobody is making my employer pay for anything except the work I do for
him - part of that pay is in the form of insurance, but it is something I earned
through my labor, it is something I am paying for with my labor. I earned it, my
boss is not giving it to me out of the goodness of his heart.
Kalindra:You missed the point. The mandate is requiring the employer to
pay for the employees contraception. Hobby Lobby should not have any right to
prevent their employees from using contraception. But they should not be
required to pay for it. Let's say you believe that alcohol consumption is
immoral and I work for you and I want to drink alcohol (on my own time, of
course). If I buy the alcohol myself there isn't a problem. But you
aren't going to want to go and buy the alcohol for me. And you should not
be compelled to either.
It is unfortunate that the government has chosen to take this kind of stand. It
is not too hard to project that this kind of ruling could have future
consequences not clearly obvious right now. The government is taking an
anti-religious, highly secular stand. I sympathize with those businesses that
will be forced to provide particular medical services which are grating to their
dearly-held beliefs.Could the same logic require, at some point in
the future, require religious people and organizations to pay for abortions
under circumstances in direct opposition to their core beliefs. How far can
this be taken? As I have said before, I think courts, informed
participants, lawyers, plaintiffs, and defendants on both sides of the argument
are well aware of where such rulings could take us.
We need to make sure religious liberty is curtailed such that it does not
impinge on individual liberty. Rights should accrue to people first and
foremost. They can choose for themselves.
""The American public appears unaware or unconcerned that some religious
organizations and family businesses indicate fear of losing the freedom to
practice their faith under the new health care regulations," said Ed
Stetzer, president of Lifeway Research, which does polling for the Southern
Baptist Convention."Um - how about the American public thinks
their personal religious beliefs deserve equal respect with the religious
beliefs of their employers and don't think their employer should get to
force his or her religious beliefs on the employees?I know a lot of
people who think alcohol and tobacco are wrong - employers don't get to
prohibit their employees from buying or using those.And to claim
that the employer is paying for it because it is through insurance is ridiculous
- employees earn their wages and benefits, including insurance. There is no
difference between insurance covering contraception and the employee using their
wages to buy groceries - they earned it, it is theirs to use and the employer
should have no say over it.