Comments about ‘Linda & Richard Eyre: 2 remarkable birthdays’

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Published: Thursday, Dec. 20 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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sharrona
layton, UT

RE:Two remarkable Births . Isaacs, Sarah was barren. but,” And I will bless her and also give you a son by her; then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from her.”17 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” (Genesis 17:16-17)

The Virgin Birth. The “pale” of Christianity believes the birth of Jesus was a unique miracle by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, same Greek word(Pneuma).
The Holy Spirit/Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luke 1:35 NIV) .

Mr_IT
LAKE FOREST, CA

Well as I said in a Beggar's Bread article back in November:

'Next month will mark the 207th anniversary of the birth of Joseph Smith. We know and understand that Mormon culture typically uses the month as an occasion to pay special attention to Joseph’s life and teachings. However, please hear my heart when I tell you that we evangelicals are praying and long for the day when the month will be far, far, far less about Joseph Smith for our Mormon friends, but all about the One whose incarnation Christians celebrate each year instead. This is the One about whose birth we sing and whom we exalt above all. I should add, that there is nothing more that we long for more than our Mormon friends to join us with swelled hearts and spiritual eyes solely fixed on that One when we sing -”the hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight.”'

As an evangelical it saddens me whenever Mormons use the month when Christians celebrate the incarnation of Jesus Christ to exalt Joseph Smith instead. Personally, I think that LdS articles like this one are both heartbreaking and offensive.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Mr IT: One chooses to be offended instead of one being offended. Yes, this Sunday is the birth date of Joseph Smith. We all know that but our service will be on the Savior just as it has been all month. Joseph Smith was and is a Prophet of God, chosen just as Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Peter, James, John and others have been before him. Each succeeding President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints continues to be the Lord's only mouthpiece on the earth that speaks today. Whether you want to believe that or not is irrelevant. The problem is I KNOW with every fiber of my being as revealed to me by the Lord Jesus Christ via the Holy Ghost.

It is obvious you have never gone to a Latter-Day Service or witness the tremendous outpouring of the Holy Ghost there. I stand just as surely as a witness of Christ as each of the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles do. My witness is just as strong and as mighty as theirs. Your prayers will go unanswered but someday our prayers to enlighten your mind will be answered.

Mr_IT
LAKE FOREST, CA

@BillinNeb
Unfortunately, your post was nothing more than a series of ad-hominem arguments - my points were not addressed.

First, your presumptive, 'It is obvious you have never gone to a Latter-Day Service' is in error. In fact, I have been to several including a Fast and Testimony Meeting - and I will attend more whenever I'm visiting Mormon family members.

Further, I have been been Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Episcopalian, Charismatic, Pentecostal and other services where I have been privileged to 'witness the tremendous outpouring of the Holy Ghost there' and IMO they've always been superior to anything that I've ever experienced in an LdS service. So who's subjective assessment wins here?

Second, my prayers and theirs are answered all the time - as the miracles (some unforgettable and inexpiable) in those meetings will attest.

Third, I have never seen founder exalting articles like this one in those cultures - especially around a Christ exalting holiday like Christmas.

Fourth, have I found anything like "Praise To The Man" in their hymnals.

It's unique behaviors like these that have given Mormons a reputation for exalting their founder over Christ - perhaps they should be reconsidered.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

I will say that your post is just as I thought it was. You neither understand nor wish to understand. Your questions have been addressed you just don't accept them. I've been to other services. I was out of the Church for numerous years and I have never found anything like the spirit in an LDS service that even compares. Now I will say that the spirit can be found in others, that is true, but when the Holy Ghost is present as it generally is especially during a Fast and Testimony meeting, then it is the individual that refuses it and denies it present. It is always there. Secondly it is LDS not Lds or LdS. Mormon is a nickname. Still the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the ONLY true and living Church of Jesus Christ on the earth today. We don't need to reconsider anything as we have never EXALTED Joseph Smith over Jesus Christ. His birthday is tomorrow. The celebration of Christ's birth is Tuesday. It would be appropriate for some wards or branches to put some meaning into theirs tomorrow if they so wish.

Mr_IT
LAKE FOREST, CA

@BillinNebraska
Yet more ad-hominem arguments? Please depersonalize and address your arguments to the logic and evidence that's been presented not the person presenting it. Thanks.

And spewing dogma may make one feel better but it doesn't address your debating opponents arguments or evidence.

The 'LDS Church' is the 'Strangite' Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The 'Brighamite' Church that you belong to is the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints - that is, the 'LdS Church'. Them's the facts, sorry.

And I'm certainly not the first to express concern in this area. For example, Joseph Smith's family recognized that "Praise To The Man" exalted him inappropriately. Thus his son, Joseph Smith III, suggested the following lyrical changes:

Praise to the Lord for the great restoration
Brought by the angel to Joseph the Seer
Pleading with God in behalf of his brethren
The church to establish, the gospel declare

Joseph Smith III felt that these changes put the focus on the Lord rather than his father. It was his opinion the W.W. Phelp's original lyrics bordered on man worshiping idolatry.
(source "Community of Christ An Illustrated History"; Herald Publishing House; 2010)

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Bill in Nebraska: Lectures on Faith: Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power.
One of the many things that bothered me when at the Sacrament meeting was the mantra about Joseph Smith being a true prophet. I left the church when I realized, “God is Spirit”.(John 4:24)

And, “The right hand of God”. In Jesus' The Sheep and the Goats, are separated with the sheep on the right hand of God and the goats on the left hand. This anthropomorphic phrasing has been discussed at length by theologians, including Saint Thomas Aquinas.

MrsH
Altamont, UT

That's funny, in my ward on Sunday, the entire service was about the birth of the Savior...the music, the talks, everything.

Oh, yes Joseph Smith's birthday was mentioned once in the closing prayer, as the sister gave thanks for him...along with the Savior Jesus Christ.

I must have been mistaken in thinking that LDS honor Jesus at Christmastime.
(Sarcasm off)

Mr_IT
LAKE FOREST, CA

@MrsH
Apparently your ward neglected to read this article and the many other articles like it in Mormon culture - that is, except for that sister who validated my points through her behavior.
(sarcasm off)

The fact that Latter-day Saints can't see that exalting Joseph Smith AT ALL and in ANY way detracts from Jesus Christ during Christmas celebrations is telling. As is the fact that they see nothing wrong with continuing to include and singing a song of praise to Joseph Smith in their hymnals. That is, of course, "Praise to the Man" - which is #27 in the current hymnal I believe. And this man exalting worship continues throughout the rest of the year whenever this hymn is sung.

As long as these behaviors continue Mormons can expect to hear them criticized since others clearly see what Latter-day Saints refuse to examine and acknowledge.

Fred W. Anson
Lake Forest, CA

@MrsH
Apparently your ward didn't read this article and the many others like it in Mormon culture.
(sarcasm off)

Never-the-less, that sister validated my points in her final prayer. Thank you for proving my case for me.

The fact that Latter-day Saints can't see that exalting Joseph Smith AT ALL and in ANY way detracts from Jesus Christ during Christmas celebrations is telling. As is the fact that they see nothing wrong with continuing to include in their hymnals and sing a song of praise to Joseph Smith. That hymn is, of course, "Praise to the Man" - which is #27 in the current hymnal I believe.

As long as these behaviors continue Mormons can expect to hear criticism.

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