Why just temporarily?
Wait so you can bypass all background checks by buying a gun on KSL? I must be
misinformed. Someone tell me it isn't that easy but then again it probably
It's a pity to see KSL caving in to the hype. Most firearm owners are safe,
law-abiding individuals, such as myself. I carried professionally for years, as
well as personally. When Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a fertilizer
bomb, did KSL stop selling garden products? This is a knee-jerk reaction and
exactly the kind we should all avoid. Knee-jerk reactions lead to poor decision
making. Stop and breathe people. The problem at hand is much deeper than
firearms, which are in themselves, inanimate. Such acts are symptomatic of
bigger problems at large.
@EttKSL is a private company and can do whatever they want, without
your permission or approval.
I am a daily reader of ksl and deseretnews - the news AND the gun, ammunition
and reloading classifieds. the last gun I purchased from ksl was, well, about 3
weeks ago.I guess I will be "temporarily" suspending my news
viewing and shopping here until the anonymous management hiding behind their
"management" title admits their kneejerk reaction was inappropriate.
This is a step in the right direction, but the suspension should be permanent.
There is no good reason to have such easy access to guns in this country. The
more civilized countries in the world that have better gun control also have
(surprise, surprise) far fewer gun crimes. The numbers aren't even close.
I am sick of hearing the logical fallacies that are used as
arguments by the gun fanatics. One of the most common is the "people die in
car accidents, so let's ban cars if we're going to ban guns"
argument. The problem with this is cars and guns have different purposes. The
purpose of cars is transport. The ONLY purpose guns have is killing.
@CHS 85,KSL is a private company and can do whatever they want. Ett
said nothing to the contrary. And it is a pity that they have caved
"temporarily". This is a much larger problem than firearms as Ett
mentioned, and I also believe that KSL is having a knee jerk moment. Everyone
engaged in "gun control" discussions, no matter your stance are having
knee jerk reactions. Including myself.
It would save many more lives if KSL temporarily suspended sale of motorcycles,
ATVS, jet skis and certainly automobiles. Thousands of people are killed by
those machines every year."If it saves just one life..."Not to mention baseball bats and kitchen utensils- they are frequently
used by criminals or crazy people to assault or even kill innocent victims.However, as others have noted, KSL is a private company and free to
allow or disallow sales of any sort.
2008 gun-related homicides: US = 12000+Japan = 11 (11 total!
With a population of 128 million!)And Japan has a more rabid video
game culture than the US, so there goes the video-games-are-to-blame argument
that many love.The UK and many fine countries in Europe have similar
low gun crime stats due to strict gun control laws that we need to develop here.
The gun control debate must be put in proper context. The 2nd Amendment has
nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protecting liberty -
liberty that is not granted by government. The Bill of Rights is a list of
rights that existed prior to the Constitution and remain God-given rights
regardless of whether the Constitution remains respected by the national
government, the states, and individuals in those states. The Bill of Rights is
meant to protect minority rights - rights that otherwise can be trampled by the
majority. Those rights were violated by mobs and state militias against the
Mormons in Missouri and Illinois in the 19th Century. American citizens of
Japanese ancestory were interned and place in concentration camps and their
property confiscated and given to others by the US Government in the 20th
Century. If the Mormons had no arms they would have been wiped of the face of
the US. To say that "it couldn't happen in the US" is not only
ignorant, but ignores history. These are just US examples, and doesn't
even begin the discussion regarding other countries and minorities in those
@you,Interesting statistics, please look up on any internet search
engine "harvard gun control" for a well though out analysis. Russia,
where handguns are banned, has a murder rate of over 20, finland and Norway
where handguns are allowed have a murder rate of less than 2. Here
in the USA, Chicago and Washington DC have some of the strictest gun control
laws, and some of the highest murder rates. Bottom line- gun control does not
appear to slow down violent crimes. And leaves citizens vulnerable to violence
perpetuated by those who laugh at such laws.
From the harvard gun control article (Kates and Mauser)..."National institute of Justice surveys among prison inmates find that
large percentages report that their fear that a victim might be armed deterred
them from confrontation crimes and the felons most frightened about confronting
a victim were those from states with the greatest relative number of privately
owned firearms. Conversely, robbery is highest in states that most restrict gun
ownership."and...."A series of studies by John
Lott and his coauthor David Mustard conclude that the issuance of millions of
permits to carry concealed handguns is associated with drastic declines in
American homicide rates."
C'mon KSL! No one outside Utah cares you temporarily closed down your gun
classifieds. Cheap shot to pat yourself on the back. The issue is
not guns. It's lack of mental health.
The Great Divide is occurring right before our eyes. We are treading in
dangerous waters. We live in a value driven country and if gun sales are up,
what is that telling us? Our country values guns and that is not a bad thing.
Our country as a whole does not value violence. Otherwise the majority of our
citizens would participate. Sandy Hook has become politicized.
Lets push more legislation. We could triple the sentence for murder. Quadruple
for murder with stolen pistol. All this paper and law is surely the answer.
I'm sure that murderers review the law before committing evil acts. Without
all this control, law abiding people with respect for human life, are apt to
become evil just by touching a gun. Yeah this makes perfect sense. Now lets ban
gas and lighters, sharp sticks and other "dangerous objects" . We
can't look at the human operating the object. It's interesting how
communism just spews when a travesty is committed. It's really not the
answer. Your Suburu could be a "Dangerous object" with you behind
JJL.. the second amendment didn't repeal the Article 3, Section 3 of the
Constitution. There are other remedies in the Constitution that weren't
explored in either case you cited, but should have. We have a court system for
Herby: "Our country as a whole does not value violence." Of course not..
that must be why it's on television programs every. single. night.And
as far as the Oklahoma City citation that Ett used, we regulated ammonium
nitrate in the Secure Handling of Ammonium Nitrate Act of 2007. It requires the
licensing of ammonium nitrate facilities and registration for buyers
DanO: Actions speak louder than words my friend. If our country as a whole truly
values violence then why isn't there chaos right now? I love how people put
the negative under the microscope, yet I look around my neighborhood and there
is not one person that comes to mind of an individual who loves violence.
I'm sure the ammonium nitrate act has stopped terrorism cold. Speaking of
terrorist, don't we need to ban vans and airplanes. If you don't think
it hasn't crossed the minds of the control mongers in Washington think
again. Reduction of freedoms have not made a difference in criminal behavior.
However, criminal behavior has caused reduction of our freedoms.
Yet I'm sure many of your neighbors plop down $15 on a movie or $60 on a
video game that is violent. When there's an incident, gun sales go up. When
there's a perceived threat of regulation, gun sales go up. Seems more to me
that the main driver of gun sales is paranoia. I'm not sure how that's
a good thing.
What is a true misfortune is that this type of action was not taken immediately
after Columbine High School in Colorado years ago. One wonders why it takes so
long to understand there is a problem that needs to be solved in some
fashion.The vast majority of drivers are good and decent people too,
yet we still wear seat belts to protect ourselves against the nuts behind the
wheel so a majority of sensible persons doesn't automatically eliminate all
the issues for society by those with poor behavior. Because guns
are so lethal (they are designed to kill and that is their primary purpose) we
ought to take them seriously. And I don't mean just the right to own them
or shoot them, but how we store them, who can get their hands on them, how we
dispose of ammunition, etc. It's not a problem with a simple answer but it
does need to be resolved.
DanO: I am not following your argument. What does Art III, Sec 3 have to do
with the 2nd Amendment? Other remedies for killing and imprisioning groups of
people without charge, trial and conviction? Not sure what remedies you are
talking about, but the judicial system is not going to enforce the laws that
violate minority rights.What doesn't get splashed all over the
media, whipping the public in a frenzy are the countless acts of violene that do
not occur because of an armed populace. It is impossible to sell newspapers,
and does not fit the political agenda of the majority of leftist journalists, to
highlight facts the show that an armed populace deters certain crimes and
thereby saves lives.It is a sad day when a tragic event such as this
is used by statists to strip away US citizen's constitutional rights.
"Emergency does not create power" (Chief Justice Holmes) is a concept
that we should be heeding in this time of sadness.
The gun-related death rate in America is equivalent to South Africa, while a
nation like the UK (that has poverty- and crime-ridden inner cities) has far,
far less. If it is primarily criminals and crazies driving up our gun-related
death rate rather than easy access to firearms, then America has been cursed
with a disproportionate number of criminals and crazies. Because we have a lot
of legally-owned firearms that don't seem to be doing us much good. Gun rights advocates such as DN Subscriber above who use logical
fallacies to support private gun ownership need to explain why it is that a
handgun is more likely to be used against a member of the household than it is
against an intruder, why we need legalization of semiautomatic non-hunting
military style rifles that made the slaughter of 26 people at Sandy Hook such an
easily accomplished feat, and why they cannot understand the difference in
purpose between automobiles and firearms.If you advocate 2nd
amendment rights, that's fine. But be honest about some of the unfortunate
consequences of widespread legal gun ownership in this country and stop telling
us that guns always make us safer.
Why temporary? Why the pandering? KSL should consider suspending permanently.
Thee is a place for guns..but not as easily readily to obtain as thy are now.
Does not surprise me at all. KSL bowing to political correctness. I'm
thinking that more children drown than are killed by guns. I propose those who
are weak in the knees lobby for a ban on water.Makes as much sense as
banning guns. As far as other countries stats. Whoopee! The do not have a
what about the 2nd Amend.? How are you going to regulate crazy or mentally ill
people? Are you going to lock everyone up that you suspect is a little wierd?
How about this idea.Lets get a cross section of non-partisan people
to study this problem.They walk in with no preconceived solutions
and make recommendations based on where the evidence leads them?Tell
me. What is the basis for the best course of action?Fact based
research or party ideology?Our elected leaders come from all walks
of life. Very few are trained to formulate complex solutions to complex
problems.And, seldom do they consult experts.
It's time to get completely behind the sacred second amendment. It
was ratified by our nation along with the rest of the Bill of Rights in 1789.
We should demand the right to own any gun that was manufactured in 1789 or
before. Let all gun owners trade in their semi-automatic weapons for
muskets. That's a policy that even the all-white, Deist, slave
owning, and yet, according to some, infallible Founding Fathers would surely
support!Ridiculous? Exactly. Gun industry supporters twist the
second amendment to maximize their sales in exactly the same way pornographers
wrap themselves in the first amendment to peddle their filth. When it comes to
gun feteshists and porn users the genie is indeed out of the bottle. That
doesn't mean a sane society should fail to address either ill in a sensible
9/11 gave us the TSA. I'm sure this tragedy will be used again to create
another multi-billion dollar bureaucracy that ends up costing us so much more
than money. Goodbye liberty. It was nice knowing you for a while.
The trouble with this emotional reaction is this. The kid was not able to
purchase the weapons he used. He didn't use assault rifles. He didn't
use high capacity clips. As far as everything has been reported. He used
handguns and a rifle.So why are we removing weapons that were not
used?Now the same regime that gave assault rifles to the mexican
drug cartel. The same weapons used to slaughter Americans and Mexican citizens.
Is going to lecture us on how to be responsible? This regime covered up those
murders and the media turned it's back on that story.But, when
a child with mental issues, tries to purchase a weapon and was denied. The
system worked. From what we know the failings were with the mother. She failed
to secure her weapons and place them where this kid couldn't get to
them.Stop the emotional over reaction to this.
Im disappointed in you KSL. Any gun without a pulled trigger is nothing more
than a paperweight. Frankly, if you want to make a stand that makes any sense,
shut down your sales of violent video games that desensitizes kids to socially
Hey You (no pun intended). The Japan example is so bad of an example, and let
me tell you why. Japan still has cultural norms that define their behavior.
Certain things are right, and certain things are wrong. Theirs is still a
society where Honor, Honesty, having a moral commpass are still valued aspects
of their society. Here in the U.S., we have none of that. There are no more
bounderies in our society, because heaven help you if you offend someone. You
can't teach any moral values in school any more. You can't talk about
right and wrong. You can't even bring up the 10 Commandments as a possible
moral values code to live by. Moral Relativism is the norm in the U.S. Until
that changes, all the gun control laws in the world won't change what
happened last week. Until we can teach right and wrong without all the moral
gray areas, nothing will change.Guns are not the problem. Access to
guns are not the problem. People and how they act, with their agency is the
problem. We change can the behavior by what we teach.
JJL, try that many people think that the second amendment allows them to take up
arms against the government.. or levying war against it (treason.) JJL seems to
think if you're being wronged, the first thing to do is to take up arms.
The second amendment does not allow this. In fact, it wasn't until Scalia
threw out the first half of the second amendment in his Heller decision in 2008
that SCOTUS said that the second amendment was an individual right. Even very
conservative judge, Richard Posner, said the Heller decision manufactured a
right that didn't exist. This is what the right often refers to as
"judicial activism." Scalia had to ignore his previous
"originalist" interpretations of the Constitution in order to come to
such a conclusion.
Bring back the death penalty
By the way. An assault weapons ban was in place in 1999 when Colombine
happened. A fat lot of good that ban did.KSL is jumping on the
politically correct band wagon. It's a classic case of slamming the barn
door after all the amimals have escaped.One armed, trained
individual may have stopped what happened last Friday. It would have stopped
Virginia Tech, it would have stopped Littleton, it would have stopped the mall
shooting last week, et.al.Dan O, you must be reading a different
Constitution than I do. In my copy of the Constitution Article III Section 3
deals with Treason. Not sure how that even applies to the 2nd Amendment.
Flash,You talk about how Japan has a moral compass and the US does
not. And then you proceed to equate morality to religion.Do you
realize that Japan is consistently ranked as one of the LEAST religious
countries in the world?People in the US would have a greater
acceptance of the teaching of a "moral compass" in school if it
didn't get wrapped so tightly in Religious packaging.
@PragmaticPlease cite any evidence that making it more difficult to
legally obtain a gun reduces crime, or keeps criminals from committing crime.
mdp said:"Im disappointed in you KSL. Any gun without a pulled trigger
is nothing more than a paperweight."Yes, so please leave them lying
about for anybody to handle or play with. NRA lobbyist?Thank you KSL
for being responsible. If any gun ever sold on KSL has been used
nefariously then they are responsible for those action as the conservative
posters have pointed out for months now, that it was the guns and where they
came from, not the individuals who may have used the Assault weapons involved in
"the fast and furious" Scheme, right?
What the biased media has NOT reported is that a Concealed Carry Permit holder
drew a bead on the shooter at the Oregon Mall after he killed 2 people. He did not fire because people were running for cover behind the gunman and he
did not want to take the chance of injuring them if he missed. But the shooter
saw him, and the next shot he took was to his own head.Look it up,
there's a video from a local Portland TV station on you tube. But no way the liberal media would ever report this. For them, it's all
about the liberal agenda of gun control. Bad people use guns to do bad things,
so controlling guns will stop the bad things from happening......NOT.
the constitution is clear it should be as easy to buy a gun as a loaf of bread
KSL is a private company and can take whatever action it feels like taking. We
can also interpret their action as anti 2nd amendment.Do they really
think that their shortsighted action will make any difference in the world?I used to keep my TV on KSL for the morning news, Today, and beyond. Just
Mr Heretic... It amazes me how you liberals always jump on the gun control
bandwagon and systematically ignore abortion. Guns kill maybe hundreds of
innocents each year, abortions kill millions of babies each and every year.
Which is worse, a firearm most often used for protection, or the
abortionist's knives which are purposefully used to kill every time they
are used? Hypocrites.
While KSL as a private business has the right to make this suspension and are
free to do so, they are not free from the consequences. Making knee jerk PC
decisions bring consequences as well, and rarely are knee jerk PC decisions
meant to cure the disease but rather make a public display of treating symptoms.
Happy Vallley Heritic you make a false analogy. The Obama
administration and their subservients knowingly and willingly violated laws and
the Obama administration most certainly knew the pattern of nefarious lifestyles
of the people who they illegally sold guns to. The Obama regime has gone to
extreme measures to conceal & cover their nefarious activities in fast and
furious. Yet they are not held accountable. KSL did not sell guns to anyone.
They have no knowledge of the criminal records and goals of anyone who might
purchase a gun through their add. Last but not least there is no law against
printing classified adds which connect private citizens who want to sell/buy
guns. Models/Examples of lawful behavior & honest, legal,
responsible handling of gun transactions has to start at the top-yes that means
POTUS and his administration.
You, the only purpose in having a gun is NOT to just kill people. There are
many responsible gun owners who enjoy the shooting sports. Ever see the
Olympics? The thing is, criminals will ALWAYS be able to get guns and
kill...and they don't go through licensing for the most part. Responsible
gun owners go through the licensing process. Sometimes you can't protect
people no matter how many hoops everyone is made to jump through. I wonder if
KSL allows anti-depressant ads to be run on their stations? Hmmm.
YOU might be right. But I'm afraid it goes much deeper than that. Could
it have something to do with cultures that actually respect other people and
don't hold violence as a national value?Just looking at some of
the postings here -- with their hints at violence as they disagree with other
posters -- is one illustration of a much more deeply embedded problem in
Joe Blow, read it again. I never mentioned religion. I did mention the 10
Commandments which are the basis for common law all over the world.By the way, my guns are secured in a gun safe. Chicago has had
over two hundred gun related homicides this year, with two weeks left to go.
They have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the United States. I
don't see gun control helping Chicago a lot. Same with DC, same with New
York.Banning guns is not the solution to the problem. Changing
behaviors is the solution to the problem. But even then, there will always be
the random crazies out there.Ted Bundy killed how many? Have we
banned porn? Did Dahmer use a gun? How about Art Bishop? By the
way, I bought 100 pounds of ammonium nitrate for fertilizer from IFA and I never
even got questioned. What happened last Friday is a tragedy. No
doubt about it. Banning guns wouldn't have stopped it. Mom's guns
were legal, but apparently not secured. How do we know he wouldn't have
made several pipe bombs and used them instead of the Bushmaster?
When I was a high schooler, we used to bring shotguns right on the bus to
school. We had a gun club. Other schools had gun clubs with teachers being
sponsors. No killings, no mass murders, no incidents. What happened? First,
the nation as a whole has left God. This nation doesn't even want to hear
about God anymore. Jesus' name is toast here. Secondly, the nation is on
anti-depressants like mad. Mothers more concerned about their work life than
their home life. Families broken apart. Kids without direction or proper
parenting. That's what happened in the USA. Next, these same people
don't want to deal with anything so they'd rather have the Feds deal
with it all. It saves them up to just think about Disney trips, buying the next
new car, and getting those sporting tickets and jerseys. What a mess of a
country. Gun bans won't fix it. All gun bans will do is make sure the
criminals are the only ones with guns. Worse, that the Feds are the only ones
"Though Justice Antonin Scalia tried in the majority opinion (Heller v D.C.)
to use the Second Amendment to defend gun rights, the many sources that he cited
are clear that the purpose of the amendment was to protect state militias. One
source, for example, declares, that the purpose of the Second Amendment is
"to secure a well-armed militia... ." Another source Scalia cited
indicates that the amendment covers only arms that "have some reasonable
relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated
militia."Therefore, Scalia acknowledges that the Second
Amendment -- even in his pro-gun interpretation -- only protects arms that would
be used in a militia, not the weapons of a formal army. He makes clear that
"M-16 rifles and the like" have no Second Amendment protection and may
be banned.More basically, the idea that unregulated private gun
ownership and trade protects us against tyranny, or that gun controls would
threaten tyranny to us all, is baseless. Democracies around the world regulate
guns, preserve their freedoms, and achieve firearm murder rates that are a tiny
fraction of the rates suffered in the United States."(Jeffrey Sachs)
YouSLC, UT"2008 gun-related homicides: US = 12000+Japan = 11 (11 total! With a population of 128 million!)And Japan has a
more rabid video game culture than the US, so there goes the
video-games-are-to-blame argument that many love."In Japan, the
total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2
murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms. This means
that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have
three times the murder rate of the Japanese. Whereas Japan’s murder rate
may be low, its suicide rate is over 20 per 100,000 people. Combined, Japanese
are being murdered and committing suicide at a rate of about 21 per 100,000. In
the U.S., our combined murder and suicide rate is also about 21.Please, give us more 'data'. Your statement hardly eliminates the
YouSLC, UT--"The UK and many fine countries in Europe have
similar low gun crime stats due to strict gun control laws that we need to
develop here." Really? Since gun banning has
escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime –
has risen. Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade
since handguns were banned. Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in
Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the
second highest over all crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britan had a
violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United states (446 vs. 2034
per 100,000 population).A Sep 2007 study showed 67% of British residents
surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the
area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.”You
need to get your facts straight, and quit parroting unsubstantiated myths.
mdp, so when confronted with the absolute silliness of your defense, you change
the subject just like a good radio junkie.Try staying on subject I know
it's hard when you've posted a silly comment.22ozn44ozglass: your wrong it's exactly the same thing minus your
presidential hatred and faux news bias. As far as "KSL did not sell
guns to anyone." and Nabster didn't sell music to anyone either but the
owners are still in Jail?
"I am hereby resolved that under no circumstances shall the freedoms
guaranteed by the Bill of Rights be infringed. In particular I am opposed to any
attempt on the part of the federal government to deny the people their right to
bear arms, to worship, and to pray when and where they choose, or to own and
control private property" Ezra taft Benson
The problem with the "guns-aren't-the -problem-but-culture-is
-the-problem" argument: The people who claim this can seldom pin down what
specifically about the culture causes us to be such a dramatic outlier when it
comes to homicide rates. (About 3 to 4 times higher than other countries with
similar socioeconomic statuses.) People will try to bring in Mexico
or Russia as examples to the contrary. That's silly. Of course in countries
with wildly corrupt police forces and judiciaries, poor law enforcement, and
known-and-left-alone warlords you're going to have high homicide rates.
Culturally speaking, we're a lot closer to Canada (our homicide rate is 2.7
times higher) and the U.K. (ours is 3.5 times higher). So what, if not guns, is
the difference?Finally, the mere fact that culture is a part of this
problem (and I think it is) is not evidence that the proliferation of guns
isn't also a part of the problem.
The problem with the "X-kills-more-people-than-guns" argument: It
doesn't recognize the bias in the technology. "People like
to think of technologies and media as neutral and that only their use or content
determines their impact. Guns don't kill people, after all, people kill
people. But guns are much more biased toward killing people than, say, pillows
— even though many a pillow has been utilized to smother an aging relative
or adulterous spouse.Our widespread inability to recognize or even
acknowledge the biases of the technologies we use renders us incapable of
gaining any real agency through them."Sure a lot of people die
via car. (Which cars are more heavily regulated than guns because we recognize
their danger, by the way.) But a car isn't designed to kill people. In many
ways, it's just the opposite. Cars also do an extraordinary amount of
things to improve our lives. In terms of making my life better while bringing
some risk, cars have a much higher ratio than guns.
"The mere fact that culture is a part of this problem (and I think it is) is
not evidence that the proliferation of guns isn't also a part of the
problem."BINGO Daniel. It is a complex problem and no single,
simple solution will fix it.
The problem with the "if-they-take-away -guns-than-they-can
-take-away-X" argument: Slippery slope arguments are seldom legitimate
because they don't recognize that we are capable of making distinctions
nearly every day and with all kinds of rules and laws. To most
people it would sound silly if I said, "Government can't tax me even 1%
because what is to keep them from then taxing 100%?" Or "If the FDA can
limit the amount of arsenic in my food, then what's to keep them from
telling me that I can only eat lima beans?" Or "if you can tell me that
I can't drive 100 mph, then what's to keep your from telling me that I
have to drive at 5 mph?" The fact of the matter is, to avoid
utter chaos (a premier threat to my liberty) we have to have some rules. The
existence of some rules doesn't mean everything will be ruled over. Just
some things. We draw these lines in many ways every day. They are seldom perfect
lines. But we get by and are able to adjust them regularly as the people demand.
Why do the KSL management want to keep people from having legal self defense
tools?Sure, they are free to do so, but people who want to legally
purchase firearms have plenty of other options. As do subscribers, viewers and
advertisers- all of whom should be reconsidering their choices of dealing with a
media conglomerate that bows to political correctness, on top of being pretty
much part of the liberally biased media to start with.There are
plenty of on-line services legally selling guns. I cannot post any links, but
if you search for "Gun Auction" you will probably find some excellent
options, including one based in Utah.
The problem with the "the-Constitution-says-so" argument: It assumes
that a very limited and historically questionable interpretation of the 2nd
Amendment is unfailingly correct. In the very sentence that grants
the right to arms, it also says the purpose of that right is for the states to
maintain a well regulated militia. We can argue about what that means, but it
actually meant very different things to different founders and records indicate
parts of the constitution were left intentionally vague in order to be ratified
by the different states. So to say this means people can have weapons carte
blanche and that it can't mean anything else seems reckless. Most of us would probably agree this right does not apply to prisoners or
three-year-old boys. It probably also doesn't apply to nuclear warheads.
The fact that regulation is mentioned in tandem with the right is
interesting. I believe it's totally possible to have guns more regulated
without infringing on the rights of honest people to own a gun. Much like the
government requires a fair amount of regulation on my car, but the intention is
not to keep me from owndership.
Knee-jerk KSL. In that mental illness and violent video games are part of the
3-legged stool, is KSL going to suspend sales of violent video games?A remember, about the same time in China a mentally ill fellow went into a
children's classroom and stabbed about 20 children. What would KSL's
reaction be to this...other than not reporting it like they didn't do.
Daniel, buddy. "A well regulated Militia, (new subject due to the comma)
being necessary to the security of a free State, (new subject) the right of the
people to keep and bear Arms, (new subject) shall not be infringed". The
Second Amendment for those of you in Rio Linda.From my reading of
the Federalist Papers on this subject, a period should have been put after
"free State", which would have totally changed the meaning of the 2nd
Amendment to make a lot more sense.My interpretation of the 2nd
Amendment? A well regulated Militia is essential to a free State (country).
The right of the common people to bear arms is a valid right and that right
can't be infringed. This amendment covers two different subjects. This whole issue is like someone failing to wear a required article of
supportive clothing in gym class. Everyone gets punished for one persons bad
behavior. Not the way a free society should operate.
Yes, lets change the punctuation to make it fit "My interpretation."
Denied!Your analogy about gym clothes is also a very poor
comparison.Not wearing your jock doesn't get the rest of the class
killed.When was the last time someone killed somone with a video
game?and finally when you have to refer to KSL as "liberally
mainstream bias" It shows how far to the right you've fallen.
The majority of the sales in the counties with the highest population, who would
have thought. The real question is per capita.
I think this is a good idea. Most of the issues with gun control in our country
stem from the fact that it's TOO easy for criminals to get them -
illegally. Not saying KSL is selling them illegally, but it doesn't seem
like there are too many controls in place to make them all legal sales.
When airplanes crashes -- and authorites can't determine the cause -- they
ground the fleet worldwide.Sorry for the temporary inconvience
Flash Back. I too have spent considerable time and effort reading and
researching the Federalist papers as well as the Constitutional Conventions and
the ratification process of the Constitution, and it is very clear that the
Colonists wanted to limit the powers of government and that a key part of
limiting the power of government was to allow the common man the freedom to keep
and bear arms. The British monarch tried to disarm the colonists
prior to and in the early stages of the Colonists war for independence from
Britain, and many of the prominent figures in the ratification process made it
clear that citizens must have the right to defend themselves and must have the
ability to fight any government which tried to deprive them of their
Constitutional liberties and freedoms even if that ended up being the very
government which they were creating at the time.
get your guns now folks while you still can as America moves closer and closer
to the communist model. Can't wait for the jack booted government thugs to
kick your door down and seize your guns by order of comrade Obama. George Orwell
was right... just 25 years too soon in his prediction.
re:LVISWhat are the sources for the statistics you cite? Every stat (from UN sources) I've seen for Japan's homicide rate is
significantly below 1/100,000. More like .3-.5/100,000 while the U.S. homicide
rate is between 4-5/100,000. The UK's homicide rate had a high of
2.1/100,000 in 2002 with a steady decline since then to 1.2 in 2009.Who is pedaling unsubstantiated myths? Sources please.
"Due to recent gun violence, KSL.com is restricting access to guns so that
law abiding citizens have less venues to obtain protection from said
violence."If you want to protect people from gun violence, make
guns easier to get so that more law-abiding citizens can protect themselves.
The correct action to take should have been along the lines of:"Due to
recent gun violence, KSL.com is providing FREE/UNLIMITED listings for the sales
of guns so that a greater number of people can have access to them."Why is it that the most heinous acts of gun violence have been committed
in gun-free zones? The answer is that the criminals know where they are safe
from a couter-attack and self-defending people.
re: "Truthseeker"--Japan data: 1996 Demographic Yearbook,
United Nations, 1998; US data: FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996Britain data: "The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse
than South Africa and U.S.", Daily Mail, July 3, 2009, citing a joint report
of the European Commission and United NationsYou may want to look at
more stats. And please, provide more than simply "Every stat I've
seen". A bit more concrete, please. What unsubtantiated myths
are you pedaling? Aren't statistics fun?
re:LVISMy data, found easily on the internet, came from the UN
Office on Drugs and Crimes. It contains data for many countries, multiple
years, including Japan in 1996 with a intentional homicide rate of .5. I have not been able to pull up on the internet the UN 1996/1998
Demographic Yearbook showing Japan's homicide rate. What does come up are
multiple pro-gun sites, purportedly quoting from the UN Demographic yearbook.
But even those show Japan with a homicide rate of .6/100,000 not the 1/100,000
Why stop therewhy not also stopViolent vidio gamesAds for day care centerseditorials advocating that
government cut back on social services for the mentally ill
"This being Christmas vacation, children's right to stay home shall not
be infringed." Everybody understands what that means, right? So now read the
second amendment and tell me what it means, given that we have a standing army
and a militia is not necessary."A well regulated militia being
necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and
bear arms shall not be infringed."