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Comments about ‘Connecticut school shooting stirs debate about competing liberties, gun violence’

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Published: Sunday, Dec. 16 2012 6:00 p.m. MST

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merich39
Salt Lake City, UT

RedShirt...

Tyrants armed with tanks, fighter jets and drone aircraft are not going to be too afraid of civilians armed with the types of guns that killed those children. Those types of guns will put fear into the hearts of kindergartners but not very much fear into the heart of an air force pilot flying an F-16. Besides, it would take an unbelievable amount of collusion for a tyrant to circumvent the separation of powers in the Constitution and gain control of the country.

I'm a lot more afraid of the solitary, suicidal looney with a stash of guns and ammo than a wannabe tyrant kept in check by the Constitution.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Infringe

1

: the act of infringing : violation

2

: an encroachment or trespass on a right or privilege

Synonyms: contravention, infraction, breach, transgression, trespass, violation

What part of the meaning of infringe do people not understand?

tejas
washington, utah

zoar63 @ 12:43 p.m
they dont understand "SHALL NOT"

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "merich39" um.....you seem to have missed the whole Libya uprising. They had lots of guns in the hands of people. You seem to be missing the Syrian uprising too.

You also missed out on the fact that in Afghanistan they kept the Russians busy for a long time, and now those same people are doing to the same to the US forces that have their F-16s and drones.

Wanna try again.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

A young child needs their mother around (or at least a parent) during their formative years, to give them a sense of security, to reinforce right from wrong, when you don't have that, you are going to get an increase in these kinds of incidents. When mothers with children at home tended to stay home with their children, we tended not to have so many of these kinds of incidents.

Do we require that women with children not work? Do we take away gun rights?

We need to keep in mind that guns save many lives each year too allowing people to defend themselves from home invasions and robberies etc, we also need to keep in mind that automobiles kill more Americans than guns. We also need to keep in mind that were guns to be taken away, these types of incidents would continue. There was murder before guns, and there will be murders if guns were to disappear.

There was one of these kinds of incidents just last week where the perpertrator used a knife, not a gun to kill and maim about the same number of students and teachers. China has a lot of these incidents.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

cjb,

"....We need to keep in mind that guns save many lives each year too allowing people to defend themselves from home invasions and robberies etc, we also need to keep in mind that automobiles kill more Americans than guns...."

______________________________

Here in Colorado, the ratio of traffic deaths to gun deaths per year is 12.3 to 10.4 per 100 thousand. Not exactly a lopsided ratio. I don’t recall the exact statistics I read a few years ago but they showed that a gun in the home was far more likely to be used to kill a neighbor or a family member in a domestic dispute than to kill an intruder into your house. Grim prospect, isn’t it?

I’m not saying you shouldn’t keep a gun in your house for home protection. But if you do, don’t assume it’s more likely to prove to be an asset than a liability. Too many people who made that assumption came to regret it.

killpack
Sandy, UT

merich39,

Militias and guerilla forces, armed only with small arms, have withstood and even defeated conventional armies with far superior weapons systems on several occasions throughout history. In fact, I guarantee if our own immoral and corrupt federal government keeps pushing its limits, especially where guns are concerned, we will probably see it happen here. Barack Obama does NOT have the support of the active military. My prediction is that most will desert. They will bring all kinds of weapons to the rebel side and it will be a bad day for the authoritarian US Government who went too far when they decided to ban assault weapons. They had better stop stoking this fire. This nation is divided enough. Using a tragedy to pass unreasonable and unconstitutional laws is going to push us over the edge.

merich39
Salt Lake City, UT

killpack...

How about if we limit ourselves to passing reasonable and constitutional laws, then? I'm 100% in support of passing reasonable and constitutional gun control laws. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There is some middle ground here when it comes to gun control laws. The NRA would like everyone to believe that any one single gun control law is just a small step away from a complete ban on private gun ownership. But the NRA lies.

George
Bronx, NY

@patriot
So then you and all the other right wing posters are going to ignore my comment to you and the comments of other "left wingers" that say we do not support further gun control and continue to post the same false claims? nice to see we can have a rational discussion.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

dixie kid

I am very skeptical of any calls for further gun control but alcohol is already regulated to a much greater extent then guns, not really the best argument.

killpack
Sandy, UT

merich39,

Okay, how about this for gun control. How about we don't arm criminals. How about we figure out why there are still 1,300 weapons at large from Operation Fast and Furious. How about we prosecute those who took part in the scandal or are trying to cover it up. How about we quit arming terrorists all over the world. That sounds like reasonable gun control to me. The federal government is the problem here, not some hillbilly gun club. How about instead of more limitations on individual rights, like the right to arm and defend yourself, we start limiting what the inept and immoral federal government can do. I mean, how many innocents have THEY gotten killed over the years? People are dying every day from gun violence but when one person with a legally purchased weapon shoots up a school, it becomes front page news? The story wasn't so sickening as the hypocrisy.

Vintage ME
Kaysville, UT

We have the technology to detect the possible presence of a firearm well before an individual enters a building, challenge that individual, secure the building if necessary and prevent entry. The needed components are for the most part mass produced for other applications and very inexpensive. We do not need to compromise anyone's freedom.

There is no place here for the endless pro/anti gun control diatribe by poorly informed idealists. We have a real problem to solve and no amount of gun control will solve it or even help very much.

Vintage ME
Kaysville, UT

The predominantly pro/con gun control comments miss the central issue and will never contribute to much less help solve the real problem. Comments about morality and media violence are apropos but again have little hope of change. Any solution must have few if any political enemies and be affordable. We live in an age of mind boggling technology. It is neither hard nor expensive to sense the presence of metal objects such as a firearm! And the devices can be very small and innocuous. They can easily be distributed well around the perimeter, in the parking lot... of a school or other institution to flag a potential problem in time to respond. Nor is it difficult to isolate and secure all areas in a building very quickly. Yes a moderate degree of access control would be needed and staff and students would need emergency response training. Inexpensive bulletproof autonomous roving robots could patrol the premises, sense the presence of weapons, interrogate a potential mass shooter, initiate lock down, alert police and stop or impede his progress (no I am not suggesting we arm them).

Vintage ME
Kaysville, UT

Do any of you anti-gun advocates realize how easy it is to make a gun? Mechanically they are relatively simple devices. The equipment needed is readily available and getting cheaper. The materials are common and can be ordered online from hundreds of sources. We have 3D printers now that can turn them out by the dozens. Forget it! it simply cannot be done! You can pass a law so complex that it makes Obamacare look like a children's story book and there will still be guns, lots of them, primarily in the hands of those we least want have them. Producing ammunition for them is equally easy.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

There is definitely a problem but it is not with the law abiding citizens who own guns. We need to address the criminal element. How about 25 years with no parole for anyone that uses a gun to commit a crime. It does not matter if no one was injured when the crime was committed. and judges would have no leeway in handing down a lesser sentence.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@zoar63
because mandatory sentencing has works so well right? there is a reason states have moved away from not towards mandatory sentencing.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

Look at the nations that have banned people from buying guns. You have people going around cutting and slashing people. Are we going to ban knives too?

All a gun ban will do is change it from gun violence to knives. Crazy people with a desire to harm others will find a way to do carry out their acts of violence. If you can legislate away crazy, then you may get some support from all people.

KC Mormon
Edgerton, KS

My2Cents
The real issue is not why do kids hate school but why do we let our kids become cold and callused as we do our military though their music, TV, movies and video games. Look at what we do in training our military. Many of their cadences are designed to harden you to the thought of killing such as "Airborne Ranger" or "The Spirit of the Bayonet" compare this to the songs our kids listen to about killing in every other rap song. Or how about the video games were they play solders out killing people. Do any of you know the original use for such "games"? In WWI we used round targets for training and found that 13% would not pull the trigger the first time in combat, by WWII we moved to silhouettes and the rate dropped to 3%, around Vietnam we started looking at simulated targets and found the rate dropped even lower to less than 1%. Those simulations developed into what has now become our video games today. Add on to the music and the games the violence they see in movies and it is no wonder they are shooting people.

KC Mormon
Edgerton, KS

one old man
Ogden, UT
Anyone want to bet what will happen this week?

Gun sales will soar as more paranoid people stock up before they "lose" their rights

This is the problem with the quick knee jerk calls for gun laws. This has already happened. Sales have gone through the roof. People who otherwise would not have bought them are buying them now. There are two reasons for this, some just worried they will not be able to in the future and others knowing that those already sold will be grandfathered in and they will be worth even more then plan to resale them as private citizens after the law is passed. When people act with knee jerk reaction they do not think this kind of thing through. The simple fact is that the shooter tried to buy his own guns but the current laws stopped him. That is why he took his mothers. Under a new law, as well as the current law, he could just look for a private citizen looking to sell. The difference is their would likely be more people willing to sell under a new law.

KC Mormon
Edgerton, KS

SlopJ30
There is a difference between an old "Cowboys and Indians" movie were when a person is shot they just fall down and what we see today were the camera is splattered with fake blood. I am glad you son was reluctant to hold a real gun the problem is all the violence really does act to make us numb to it. Why do you think the military uses it to train recruits? Why did they see a 10% drop in the willingness to pull he trigger from WWI and WWII just going from a round target to a human sillhouete and then less than 1% reluctant to pull the trigger after going to simulations?

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