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Comments about ‘Connecticut school shooting stirs debate about competing liberties, gun violence’

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Published: Sunday, Dec. 16 2012 6:00 p.m. MST

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activ2004
Clearfield, UT

Why is it not considered "gun violence" when a female uses a gun to defend herself and her 'children' against an abusive male?, or when a police officer uses a gun to serve and protect the public?, or when a law abiding 'concealed carry permit' holder in an Oregon mall displays a gun which causes the evil punk to turn the gun on himself, thereby preventing the loss of more life? And on and on and on.

The issue on trial in "we the peoples" court is not about competing liberties, it is about competing selective outrage over the tragic consequences of evil and what makes the best tabloid headlines, once we get that figured out then perhaps we can truly progress as a society.

Where is the consistency? Progressive individuals have screamed bloody murder over the 'Uniting and Strengthening America, by, Providing America Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism act, and are screaming bloody murder over more gun (moral behavior) control laws.

I don't get it!

SlopJ30
St Louis, MO

Reasonable gun licensing laws and the banning of certain types of weapons I can get behind. What strikes me as hopelessly naieve and simplistic is the blather about violence in entertainment and video games.

Look, a lot of people dislike violent media, and that's fine and well. However, violence has been a part of entertainment for centuries and is not going to stop. Cowboys were shootin' up Indians since the dawn of cinema, and little kids ran around with cap guns pretending to kill each other well before the XBox or PS3 arrived. All but the most maladjusted and mentally unstable kids see games as just that . . games. It has no bearing on their behavior in the real world. My son (15) plays all kinds of super-violent FPS games, and when we went to a shooting range he could barely bring himself to hold a real gun. Why? Because, like 99.999% of us, he clearly distinguishes between fantasy and reality.

Regulating media to protect us from the .001% is not going to work, nor is it noble. It's a solution based on fantasy as much as any video game ever was.

Aggielove
Cache county, USA

I ask this question to the folks wanting to ban assault rifles.
Tell me the main difference between a deer rifle, and a AR-15?

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Is DO NOTHING a solution?"

Unfortunately, it's the only solution liberals seem able to grasp.

Gun control is a DO NOTHING solution. It never has, never will work.

Bad guys and crazies already have weapons. They will be absolutely and forever unaffected by any deranged gun, ammunition, or magazine-capacity ban or control unconstitutionally imposed by the Obama regime.

The ONLY measure that has a chance of working is to decrease the size of the defenseless victim pool currently guaranteed by law.

The principal in this case died in an heroic unarmed attempt to intervene, but, denied the proper tools, could not meaningfully respond. Training and arming her and other willing staff would permit effective response, but would also provide a genuine disincentive and deterrent to prevent such attacks. Evil/disturbed cowards are less likely to step into the line fire to perpetrate their crimes.

Our Nation's founders understood that standing up to evil is the only real solution.

Sadly, liberals, curiously considering themselves their -- and our -- intellectual superiors, don't.

They prefer DO NOTHING.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Assault rifles were designed for combat use by trained soldiers fighting in defense of this country. Being available to the general public has made them popular among men who use them to spray the countryside with hot lead indulging Rambo fantasies. These men need to grow up.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Gun sales will soar as more paranoid people stock up before they "lose" their rights."

As well they should.

The Obama regime has a long, LONG history of circumventing law and Constitution to accomplish its transparent totalitarian aims.

Real people are rightly concerned.

no fit in SG
St.George, Utah

While reading your newspapers and social media this morning, leave the these pages. Seek a historical site that will explain America's early history.
These sites discuss the fighting, uncontrollable greed, anger, wars, guns/weapons, death, and the enormous need for power that came with those who settled our country.
We citizens now are paying for this in the most unexplained, surprising, and horrendous way.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

New gun laws would be like drilling a tooth when you have a broken arm – you can say that you have done something to address the problem – thing is, it’s the wrong thing.

As DN Subscriber 2 said, we need to control the nut cases. The PC crowd would rather allow the nut-jobs to kill us all than to impinge on their rights.

Owlmaster2
Bogus – what has BO proposed to deter violence? Nothing. HE is the party of NO. Thanks for playing, though.

JoeBlow,
Yes, the left wing crazies DO run the show

Eastcoastgulag,
Driving cars is not a right enshrined in the constitution. Controlling nut-jobs is NOT a do-nothing solution.

Fred44
Salt Lake City, Utah

Another example of the far right digging in to an extreme position and refusing to move and then calling the far left names for digging into the opposite extreme position and refusing to move.

Reasonable people however would probably look at this situation and come to a few basic conclusions without all the rhetoric.

First this was a horrible tragedy and no matter what measures we impose short of turning schools into prisons, we cannot guarantee this will not happen again.

Second because we cannot guarantee it won't happen again that doesn't mean there are not things we could do to reduce the chances of this type of tragedy in the future.

Third the second amendment doesn't guarantee Americans the right to have any and every gun, ammo clip etc of their choosing.

Fourth because somebody uses the word gun control that doesn't mean they are trying to take away your second amendment right and overturn the constitution.

With all that being said it is time to have a grown up reasonable conversation about assault weapons and other semi-automatic weapons and ammo clips or these types of incidents will continue.

George
Bronx, NY

@patriot
I don't think it is any secret on these threads that I am a liberal an I think the conversation could start by not assuming everyone on the liberals wants NO GUNS PERIOD and that everyone that supports gun rights are violent lunatics. I happen to think any discussion about further gun control of any kind should be done with great care. I do not favor the idea that people should not own guns. Frankly I think the discussion following this last tragedy should focus on how to better educate the public about mental illness and how to help those that are suffering. Including educating their families making wise choices when they have a family member that is suffering.

tejas
washington, utah

It should be required that to be a teacher you must have a concealed weapon permit. Any teacher not capable of getting a permit has no business around children.

George
Bronx, NY

@lost in dc
actually it was reagan that closed the mental health hospitals in the 1980's and republicans (oh right they are the founders of the pc crowd, the hole swearing thing and all) that generally show an open hostility towards the mental health field. I for one am all for very carefully considered regulations to better ensure that those that present a harm to society due to their specific illness be institutionalized with very strict oversight of the institution to insure they do not harm others,a re kept safe them selves and not held one day longer then necessary.

eastcoastcoug
Danbury, CT

I would just like to know for many of you, what exactly is a "nut job"? How would you exactly "control them"? Are you going to lock down everyone with Aspergers or Autism? How about Paranoia? If you are afraid of an invasion by the Chinese/Russians, think the Feds are on a pre-planned path to gradually enslave you, or fear people coming in and tie-ing you up while they take your weapons, you just might qualify...

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

procuradorfiscal,

"....The Obama regime has a long, LONG history of circumventing law and Constitution to accomplish its transparent totalitarian aims...."
______________________________

You don't say. I thought basic American Civics was still being taughts in school. There is no Obama regime. There is an Obama Administration, the result of something we in this country call an election. As for circumventing the Constitution, I think Barak Obama’s grasp of the Constitution is far more advanced than that of folks who argue that the solution to these shooting rampages is to have public school principals and teachers all armed with guns when they go to work each day.

If there are any whose thinking needs to rearranged, it’s those who have turned their homes into mini arsenals out of fear that the U.S. Government is so tyrannical that we must be prepared to form a citizens army to take on the U.S. Army to restore American freedom. People of that mentality are not the people I want to see dictating gun policy for this country.

Anti Bush-Obama
Washington, DC

Won't work they will just resort to using pipebombs, anthrax, cyanide, vehicles, machettes and chainsaws.

How did a total gun ban work for North Korea? Well only the the government has guns so that should be a leftist utopia. Only thing is, the government can take anything they want from you because they have guns and you don't. If you don't like it, you will be stuck in a gulag.

Anti Bush-Obama
Washington, DC

Craig Clark

"If there are any whose thinking needs to rearranged, it’s those who have turned their homes into mini arsenals out of fear that the U.S. Government is so tyrannical that we must be prepared to form a citizens army to take on the U.S. Army to restore American freedom"

Actually a number of military have vowed to stand down if they ever have to do such a think as take on the American people. The military has ever admitted that they have been trained for door to door gun confiscation and they are disgusted by it. That's why they have vowed privatley to not follow that order.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

much of the talk surrounding guns is based on ignorance and fear unfortunately. The non-gun crowd of America is fearful of guns and believes that somehow guns themselves induce violent behavior. This is ignorant and completely irrational but you will find people on the left ranting away with all sorts of non-fact based emotion such as was the case on CNN the other night with left wing wacko Pierce Morgan. The man was unhinged ranting about banning guns. Senator Dick Durban (Democrat in the Senate) said there needs to be a rational calm discussion about common sense gun control such as having back ground checks at guns shows. This is all fine and good and I agree with Senator Durban but the problem is there are no rational - calm - common sense voices on the left and all you get is the Michael Moore types driving the conversation which is to ban all guns in America and become Russia or China. I have heard the shrill voices on the left and it is frightening. Americas have the right to defend themselves - now more than ever. Conservatives want to have common sense laws - the left doesn't.

activ2004
Clearfield, UT

There was a young boy who approached his father who had just returned from a hectic day at the office and asked if he would play with him, the father told him to go and play for a few minutes, then he would play with him, minutes later the boy again approached his father and plead the same inquiry, the father took a map of the world tore it up in several pieces and told the little boy to go and put the picture back together then he would play with him, the little boy went and returned just a few moments later with the assembled picture, the father was amazed and asked how he did it, the intelligent little boy said, easy dad, on the back of the picture was picture of the family, I just put the family together and the world fell into place.

The heavens are weeping not for the little ones who have returned to the loving arms of a Heavenly Father but for the fact we have left His piece of the puzzle out of the picture of the world.

I hope this does not offend anyone. Jesus healed many with "chemical imbalances".

VIDAR
Murray, UT

Fewer student are going into mental health fields; because they are told that their degrees are worthless, and of no value.
No one wants to fund mental health treatment, so there are few openings to work in the field.
Few people want to get a masters or doctorate degree; and make as much money as someone with a high school or bachelor’s degree.
If as a society we will not fund mental health treatment; then the mentally ill will go untreated.

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

@eastcoastcoug and other critical thinkers. There is only ONE way to stop people using guns to commit crime. That is ban the possession of any firearm with the penalty of death. No guns for the police or any agency. No guns period. Confiscate every gun and melt them down. Even this would not prevent some guns from getting into a criminals hands. Any thing less that this is just wishful thinking.

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