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Utah Utes basketball: No moral victory for Utes

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  • Drum and Feather SLC, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 10:25 p.m.

    Wookie I won't lie, your constant attempts to make this into a religious issue are embarrassing to others of us that are Utah fans. The fact is that most Utah fans are also LDS and we have every bit as much a responsibility to represent our religion as the BYU fans do, or don't. Remember this is about sports and supporting a school. Just because one of the schools is owned by a church it doesn't mean that the fans that support it are any more, or less, responsible to behave a certain way than any other.

    Please refrain from trying to turn it into a religious issue as that is actually the lower behavior than someone mocking fans or the schools themselves.

  • WHS FAN SARATOGA SPRINGS, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 10:24 p.m.

    Sammyg

    LOL. gotta!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 8:10 p.m.

    WHS Fan

    Here's an idea, if your comments can't make it here, go to the "other" paper.

    I have had several 'tongue in cheek', humorous, sarcastic zinger comments that never make it either but you don't see me whining about it. The Dnews has their reasons.

    It's a well known fact that the "other" paper allows almost anything.

    There's a level of civility found here and maybe through your crimson colored glasses some bias.

    It's 'no holds barred' at the "other" paper so if your comments fit there by all means you should go there.

    Happy Holidays and Happy Non Post Season to you and all my Ute "friends"

  • WHS FAN SARATOGA SPRINGS, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 7:07 p.m.

    Deseret news it is amazing you let these BYU fans make the comments they do but never post one of mine. Clearly you are biased. It's time I read the "other" paper!

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Dec. 12, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    @Solomon Levi:

    I am not a coach so I am not certain what they use as a "measuring stick", I believe that wins/loses is one way of measuring improvement, but I am certain, especially in academia, that there are other measurements used (i.e., graduation rate, personal improvment etc...). This is besides the point, I was merely stating how does one determine what number shows signs of improvement? Again, just because a link takes you to a BYU page does not make this a BYU article, rather it references a BYU article. I did not say that I agreed or disagreed with one's opinion, rather I was clearly pointing out that contentious statements serve no point.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    Wookie

    If you don't use wins/losses to measure improvement, what do you use?

    Just because someone posts an opinion that you don't agree with, doesn't mean it's meant to be contentious.

    btw, your so-called "Utah" article contains 6 specific references to BYU or Cougars, including a link to a BYU team page.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Dec. 12, 2012 3:09 p.m.

    PACute, you assume way too much in your response. If this is a BYU article, then enlighten me on why it is not accessible from the BYU link? As for hypocrisy, I don't think I mentioned anything about U fans who behave inappropriately or assumed anything about their faith. That is an assumption made by you. I am merely commenting upon a poster who constantly trolls U message boards seeking to spew negative and contentious statements. I only asked how he came up with the arbitrary numbers to determine improvement. Sometimes wins/loses do not accurately measure growth.

  • PACute_ Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 12, 2012 1:15 p.m.

    Wookie

    It's silly to claim this is a "Utah" message board, when the article is about the BYU-Utah game?

    Besides, at least half of the Utah posters are LDS who profess to follow the same principles of behavior. Why aren't you castigating them?

    The Bible, which most Christians believe in, also teaches something about hypocrisy and unrighteous judgement. Look it up.

    "Anyway, so what if they win 2,5, or 8 conference games?"

    Your so-called "arbitrary" numbers will be used by BYU and Utah fans unlike to judge whether the Utes actually did improve, since Utah's pathetically weak pre-season schedule doesn't offer much of a measuring stick.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Dec. 12, 2012 12:05 p.m.

    @ Troy Town:

    I had no idea you were the barometer for determining when a team improves? Thank you for sharing your college basketball expertise. This is a U message board and thus there is no need for Y fans to come and "stir-the-pot", especially since they espouse to follow a Faith that preaches/teaches against such behavior. Anyway, so what if they win 2,5, or 8 conference games? I love arbitrary numbers.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 9:12 a.m.

    PAC man

    Utah apologists such as Uteology like to pretend that Utah operates in a vacuum and that the Utes missing their final 8 shots had nothing to do with the Cougars tightening their defense.

    The truth is, BYU's zone defense clogged the paint, forcing the Utes to take lower percentage shots from long range. The strategy obviously worked.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Dec. 12, 2012 8:16 a.m.

    Uteology

    "Rose did a such a great job of adjusting that he needed Utah to miss our last 8 shots to eke out a win."

    Sorry, but your crimson bubble is affecting your view of reality.

    Rose's great job of switching to a matchup zone defense confused Utah's offense sets and forced the Utes into throwing up awkward shots resulting in the Utes missing their last 8 shots including a desperation 3 at the buzzer.

    Home or away, the Utes would have faded to the better team.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 11, 2012 9:08 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    Krystko gambled on a game plan that the officials went along with.
    Rose adjusted and Utah didn't have an answer. Game over.

    -------------

    Rose did a such a great job of adjusting that he needed Utah to miss our last 8 shots to eke out a win.

    Coach K also did a great job of gambling on the defense against Boise.

    The difference at home we dominated all game, on the road we dominated a half with nerves taking over down the stretch.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 11, 2012 8:56 p.m.

    Is 58-61 a moral victory? No!

    But Ducky and his ilk complaining about "officiating" and "physical play" on their OWN court when BYU was a 20+ point favorite is a great sign that Utah is on the right track.

  • NAWalker1968 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 6:39 p.m.

    Any BYU fan that thinks that is a good BYU team is delusional. They won't get NCAA bid this year. Mark my word!

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Dec. 11, 2012 3:34 p.m.

    DuckRevenge

    Why are you whining about negative and contentious comments when that's pretty much the norm for Utah fans commenting about BYU?

    Utah is improving, but a win over an unexpectedly decent Boise State and a closer than expected loss to BYU is hardly proof that the Utes are "back" to average, let alone competitive.

    Any objective fan looking at Utah's pre-season schedule could have told you that it would be nearly impossible for the Utes not to "improve" playing that schedule. The acid test to significant improvement will come during the weekly conference grind.

    With 3-15 as the conference benchmark

    3 wins - no improvement
    6 wins - some improvement
    9 wins - marked improvement

    Likely improvement - 6 conference wins, which would improve Utah's conference standing from 11th to 10th.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 3:04 p.m.

    It is ammusing to see the total and complete infatuation with the U program from some Y fans. Dave Rose has BYU on very solid ground and the Utes are only begining to bring their program back from a historic low. Indifference would be more appropriate. Why byu fans like Sammyg, duckhunter and others would be so incredulous over the Utes fans having a little somthing to be encouraged by is beyond me.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 2:46 p.m.

    Snack pac
    "If BYU shoots anywhere close to their average, BYU wins the game handily"
    If Utah shot their average they win the game easily, duh...
    I agree on the switching to the zone, it was the difference. I am sure coach K realizes other teams will zone him the rest of the year if they do not get better at defeating it.

  • DuckRevenge (aka Wookie) Omaha, NE
    Dec. 11, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    Ah, leave it to our avid bird hunter to come and "stir the pot" with his contentious comments. Do you find joy in reading U posts and spewing negative contentious comments? Your comments are almost predictable. Aside from such comments, this is a great article, the Utes are growing and will continue to improve. Great coach and good system. Go UTES!!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Dec. 11, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    Utah is improved over last year. Utah has two solid players to build on (Bachynski and Loveridge). I'm not sure that any other assumptions can be made about Utah, after one unexpected win (BSU) and a closer than expected loss (BYU). The other games have gone as planned against a very weak non-conference schedule. At home against SMU and versus an athletic CSNR will tell us more about the Utes. I still think a few conference wins is about all that can be expected.

    BYU is not improved from last year. This is the weakest BYU team in 7 - 8 years, and likely the weakest for the next 7 - 8 years. Beyond Davies and Haws, we don't have much. Carlino and Zylsta are streaky like last year. They'll have some good games and some duds.

    I'm hoping Carlino will become more consistent. He's the key to us challenging St Mary's for the #2 spot in the WCC and becoming NCAA eligible. I'm giving the WCC crown to the Zags already.

  • Ragnar Danneskjold Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 11:55 a.m.

    It was obviously a physical game, and I hate to complain about the refs.
    The biggest reason in my mind that Utah lost the game is that they started to jack up 3 pointers early in the shot clock down the stretch instead of being patient and waiting for the shot like they had been in the first half. They started to act like they had to match BYU shot for shot on 3 pointers when they were still up by 5 and could milk the clock and get easier buckets and hold them off.
    The Cougars got hot at the end and the Utes made some mistakes that they can hopefully learn from. Hopefully just rookie mistakes and getting a little rattled by the environment. All things that can be fixed. The team is showing improvement.
    Good game BYU, hopefully the Utes can start to keep it more competitive in the future.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    It was a very physical game and yes many more fouls could have been called. But the game was decided on the shooting woes of both teams. Early on, BYU missed several open, uncontested shots. Had even half of those fallen, Utah would have needed to adjust its box and one and given Haws more freedom. That in itself would have changed the game. In the 2nd half, BYU took the paint away from Utah. This was a big factor in BYU's comeback and eventually getting a lead they were able to cling to. When Utah lost the paint and could not hit their perimeter shots, they lost the momentum they had.

    The game is about putting the ball in the hole. When you can only do that 30% of the time you are going to lose many games. This game was somewhat unique because both teams shot poorly. Especially disconcerting was that many of the missed shots for both teams were open makable perimeter shots. In years past, both teams had players that were near automatic when allowed those shots.

    Neither team should be bragging. Both played poorly.

  • Jordan Lynchburg, VA
    Dec. 11, 2012 10:36 a.m.

    Snack PAC, we all watched the game. I think it was evenly called, why does everybody whine about refs? I mean, really, it is whining. Can't we just say it was a great game between two teams that wanted it, and BYU won it in the end? Props to you guys, and props to the Utah coaches and players that put together and executed a very effective game plan. There will always, ALWAYS be bad calls or missed calls for both sides, every game. That's part of the game; it's basketball. Good game BYU, thanks for the very entertaining game.

    And, of course,

    Go Utes!

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Dec. 11, 2012 10:14 a.m.

    Th

    If BYU shoots anywhere close to their average, BYU wins the game handily.

    The good news for Utah: the Utes held BYU to 31.1 FG%.

    The bad news: BYU shot 31.1% or worse only 27 times since 1960-61 and BYU lost all but three of those games. Congratulations to the Utes on joining a rather unique club.

    The last time BYU won a game shooting 31.1% or worse was 12/29/99 at UC Santa Barbarbra, where BYU beat the Gauchos while only shooting 29.6%.

    Utah lost the game because BYU switched to a matchup zone defense, confusing the Utes, taking them out of their sets, and forcing awkward shots.

    Krystko gambled on a game plan that the officials went along with.
    Rose adjusted and Utah didn't have an answer. Game over.

  • Cougsrock original Maricopa, Az
    Dec. 11, 2012 9:46 a.m.

    CB. My goodness. It has been a pleasure embarrassing the Utes fan base for the last 12 games. Now and then giving them hope then ripping their heart out at games end felt equally satisfying. Sorry Chris, top ten recruiting class coming in along with Kyle Collinsworth coming back. Get used to the embarrassment.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 9:22 a.m.

    Snack PAC, I'm not whining about Haws getting away with pushing off, it was a physical game and was called as such. But IF they were going to be calling ticky-tack fouls that you seem to consider "mugging," then yes, they likely would have been calling offensive fouls on Haws for that. And again, just watch the tape again, and you'll see the first two rebounds Haws gets boxed out on the rebound, tries to fight through it and got himself tangled up. If anything, that's an over the back call on Haws, but in that physical of a game, the no call makes more sense. Later in the game, he did a better job of positioning himself to earn offensive rebounds, so I'd say that was a valuable learning experience for him. You guys are making this game out to be John Chaney's Temple goon squad, throwing out personal character attacks at people you know nothing about, and not appreciating it for what it was at all, which was a good, hard-fought basketball game between two rivals.

  • Th Tooele, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    Snackpack

    I think it was obvious that the refs were going to let them play physical when Brandon Davies came out and body checked Glenn Dean on Utahs very first posession. I know you think that Haws was just standing still when both he and Martin went to the floor. Davies played soft in the first half which is why he was dominated. The refs had nothing to do with him being dominated.

    In the second half they called it much tighter on Utah when they began calling touch fouls on Utah on a couple of three point plays that were weak calls at best. Even the last call that Haws got was weak.

    As a Utah fan and someone who played at the collegiate level, I can say that Utah lost this game because they forced shots and made some bad decisions at the guard position down the stretch. I could take the role of you and say that any time we tried to penetrate, the cougar guards were hacking and slapping but Im not going there. Utah had some open misses down the stretch. If Utah makes one of the open 3s they missed, they win the game!

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Dec. 11, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    utahcountyute

    The box score comparison of fouls called is meaningless to anyone who actually attended the game and could clearly see the gangsta play of the Utes. The refs could have put a stop to it by simply calling a few fouls early on to send a message. Instead, they swallowed their whistles on Haws literally being tackled, TWICE, in the first couple of minutes of the game. When nothing was called on those two plays, the Utes were given a green light to grab and push with abandon throughout the game.

    It's laughable that Utah fans are whining about Haws "getting away with" pushing off late in the game, after all of the muggings the Utes got away with before then.

    Bottom line: BYU found a way to win despite the gangsta tactics of Utah.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 11, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    One game where Utah played better than average and BYU's game was below average does not create a trend. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out for both teams in league play before we predict the future.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 12:44 a.m.

    Two For Flinching, actually Sharp missed both of the free throws coming off Washburn's phantom over the back, but it was still more than a two-point swing because it gave Wash a foul he didn't actually commit, gave a team foul and took away the shot made by Renan. Definitely not citing it as a reason for the loss, BYU earned the win by making their shots when Utah didn't, but yes, those two calls were inexcusable given the situation.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 11:04 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter

    Yes, but the increase in ability on this Utah team is obvious. We are just excited to see good basketball being played in the Huntsman again. Is that really a reason to troll?

    @ Snack PAC

    Stop whining about the refs. Bachynski had four fouls early in the 2nd half. Lens had three fouls in only seven minutes. I don't know where you got the idea that Utah got away with everything. Not to mention, down the stretch there was on over the back call on Washburn and BYU knocked the ball out of bounds under Utah's basketball and the ball was awarded to BYU. Both of those calls were horrible, and BYU scored 5 points as a result of those calls...

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:47 p.m.

    snack

    You might want to check the box score. How is it that byU was charged with only 15 fouls and Utah 21?

    Haws was on the line for his last 10 points. Bring the fouls charged against the Utes to 18 and 15 for the cougs, and the Utes win.

    Please don't bring up the fouls anymore, it's just silly.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Dec. 10, 2012 9:51 p.m.

    U 90

    You're making a HUGE assumption that a coach who has 6 consecutive 25+ win seasons won't be able to adjust to teams throwing a box and one on Haws. And, not every game BYU plays will be officiated by the three blind mice. Some officials actually call fouls for the muggings Haws and Davies were subjected to throughout the game.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 9:12 p.m.

    Delusion is rampant on the hill. You guys realize that you LOST don't you?

    LOL!

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Dec. 10, 2012 9:00 p.m.

    Sammy

    It may turn out to be cute for byu's future opponents who now have a blueprint on how to hold hawes and Davies under their season averages

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 8:59 p.m.

    No, not a moral victory, but made me pumped about the future. Loveridge is legit. Bachynski or however you spell it is a monster.

    I think we'll finish middle of the Pac 12 this year, which would be an amazing accomplishment.

    Coach K is going to take this program places. And we're not far out. I say one more year and we'll be in the big dance. With USU and BYU very average WAC/WCC teams this year - Utah likely will be the best team by the end of the season.

  • Dave S Holladay, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 8:31 p.m.

    If that game were played in the Huntsman Center it wouldn't have been close. The Utes would have won in a blowout. Part of maturing as a team and a program overall is learning how to overcome adversity during a game and win on the road.

    With that said, I love the direction the program is heading!!

  • reasonableUTE Provo, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 7:52 p.m.

    BYU is clearly better than Utah in basketball this year, and likely will be next year. I am glad to see the utes getting better under krystkowiak, and they will be competitive again in a year or two, but i'm not saying they will be better than BYU, coach Rose will have them ready to play every year for years to come I think.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 7:23 p.m.

    Coach K may have discounted the moral victory but certain Ute fans are sure slobbering over themselves lately like this fan...

    "The message has been sent though, the best basketball school in the state is on it's way back!"

    Ah, ain't it cute?