Comments about ‘'Stay with us,' new LDS website urges gay Mormons’

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Published: Thursday, Dec. 6 2012 9:15 a.m. MST

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UtahDemocrat
Salt Lake City, UT

I grew up faithful LDS. Were it not for my same sex attraction, I'm confident I would still be an active member. Ironically, it was my belief in LDS doctrine about the importance of having a family that ultimately led me to leave the church. I've had plenty of experience with LDS who struggle to figure out how to deal with me. They want to simultaneously communicate both their belief that I am sinning and that I am a child of God worthy of his love. Well brothers and sisters, I'm good with God. That struggle you feel is not about how God wants you to communicate with me. It's about God trying to communicate with you. How you respond to that internal dilemma is your cross to bear. But if I ever see one of you spiritually abusing a young person who is struggling to figure out how he or she fits into Gods plan, you will learn first hand what an angry gay man looks like.

JWB
Kaysville, UT

Where love is, there God is also. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is love and that is what His Father gave us when Jesus Christ came on earth to teach us and even die for us.

He gave us His only begotten Son, that whoso believeth in him should not perish. That is found in going to Church and being involved in important safety links to get us back to Heavenly Father.

The Apostles and Prophets live in our day to help us learn how to do that. This is a message of love they want to share with all people. There is not a family in the Church that is not impacted by people of all types and philosophies.

Christ told us to love everyone and that may be hard but I have learned in these situations that love breaks down barriers, slowly but surely from personal experiences. It is the same for all of God's commandments that we should live and follow.

I do know we need principles to live by and not become as some ancient peoples and want to be like other nations and be popular in a world that is not godly.

killpack
Sandy, UT

@Jeff in NC

The message doesn't work for you. You say it's a 'bad message.' Yeah, well that's just like your opinion man.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "LDS Liberal" 20 years ago I was in a branch presidency, and had access to the Handbook of Instructions given to branch, ward, and stake leaders. In there it was quite clear that Gay people were to be welcomed into the church and were to follow the same standards as any other member. The Church's position has not changed, only their way of communicating it has.

20 years ago the church said homosexual relationships were wrong, and they still are considered wrong today. They said to love those with SSA issues and help them feel welcomed, and they are still saying that today. The message is still the same, just the method of delivery has changed.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "The Church's stance has been "changing" over the last 10 years, and I know you believe God and his church never change."

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to make up your own facts.

Fact is, I can attest -- from personal experience in various positions of Church leadership -- that the Church's position has not changed, at least in the last 42 years.

In times before that, there probably was no specific position or pronouncement on homosexuality, apart from those on sin, in general, since it wasn't really an issue back then. People's inherent sense of modesty had not yet been overcome by the "sexual revolution," and real people just didn't identify themselves with, or even talk about their sex lives.

But we do know that going back to the Savior's time, His mission was to retrieve and bless the lives of sinners, saving them from sin, not in sin.

This most recent announcement differs in no way from that.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

RanchHand,

Understood. That is you. So this website is not really aimed at you and nor were my comments. But there ARE those that struggle, true? And for them, this can make a difference. My comments were simply in support of them and our reaching out to them.

Peace. I meant no disrespect.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

Everyone sins. Why is this sin worse than others? What is your sin? None? do tell...

bayhuntr
Forestville, CA

There is a lot of misinformation running around on this thread, we can only hope the Church is going to be accurate and get some of it cleared up. For one thing, to the gentleman who claims there is ZERO evidence that children are born with their orientation already set (kind of like we are born to grow teeth and body hair one day, those aren't choices, right?), you are misinformed. Twin studies have proven there is a genetic predisposition to being gay. Of course that isn't proof, but it would be called EVIDENCE. Then there is the evidence that nearly all gays, millions and millions of them, claim it wasn't a choice, if fact they fought it, but to no avail. Then there is the evidence that those that are claiming it's a choice are either bisexual or they didn't have a choice, right?

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

Religion is politics and politics is money and power so the Mormon church will make changes favorable to changing times the same as they have done time after time when it was deemed past doctrine made no sense to modern times. Yesterday's church is not today's church and tomorrow's church will be much different than today's. So be patient and wait and eventually the church will come to common sense. In the meantime be loving and charitable to your fellow man and wish for the best and struggle to do good and defeat evil.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

20 years ago the church said homosexual relationships were wrong, and they still are considered wrong today. They said to love those with SSA issues and help them feel welcomed, and they are still saying that today. The message is still the same, just the method of delivery has changed.

8:59 a.m. Dec. 7, 2012

===================

I knew people who left the LDS Church back in 1978 when the Prophet changed policy toward "blacks".
It's been nearly 35 years since then, and I know "Saints" who are STILL members who are uncomfortable with "them".

I have a question for you RedShirt.
Would you accept a Gay member as your home teacher?
Your Quorum President?
Your Bishop?

How about a Temple worker, or standing in a prayer circle?

I'm COMPLETELY fine with it.

I have Gay members in my family.

It's part of how I have formed my "Liberal" opinion.
Try being away of how someone else feels for a change.
It's called compassion.
Bledding hearts tend to be that way.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

"....there is no such thing as principle, power, wisdom, knowledge, life, position, or anything that can be imagined, that remains stationary-they must increase or decrease."
- Brigham Young
____________________

Eternal progression is a religious tenet unique to Mormonism. While truth is unchanging, that doesn’t mean that one’s individual UNDERSTANDING of truth is perfect. Indeed, the very concept of eternal progression assumes that there is much we have yet to learn.

I, for example, don’t understand what causes sexual orientations that appear aberrant to the norm the world accepts. Maybe someday science will bring a more definitive answer to these issues that are troubling to many. But I do believe that Christ would not treat gays as pariahs, social outcasts, or as inferiors.

Jeff
Temple City, CA

@ skeptic: I don't accept your syllogism (Religion is politics and politics is money and power so the Mormon church will make changes). First, I don't accept the premise that "religion is politics." If you qualified it: "religion can be political," then I would agree, but that destroys your conclusion. Your second premise, "politics is money" problematic for the same reason. Your conclusion, based on incorrect premises, is invalid.

Your efforts to make such a syllogism betray a bias against the Church that overwhelms your ability to reason properly.

Does the Church make changes? Of course. If those changes are motivated by money, there would be more direct evidence than one could find for most of the Church's changes in practice. An argument could be made for the discontinuance of plural marriage, but certainly not for expansion of the priesthood, elimination of some budget requirements, creation of the LDS welfare system, issuance of the new editions of the scriptures, suspension of the law of consecration, and others.

Further, if you look at the subject a little more carefully, you will see that there is almost always a prophetic precedent for any "changes.

SmoothWater
Heber City, UT

So thinking about being immoral isn't a sin? Only if I act on it? Good to know.

bayhuntr
Forestville, CA

If all churches demanded these values from those that choose to be within the faith and didn't require those outside to live by them, this wouldn't be an issue, at all. I lived in SLC for six years and found the Mormon people to be wonderful, many, at least in SLC to be live and let live and that comes from the perspective of an atheist. For those people who choose to be a part of Mormonism, this web site is a good thing. I can't imagine a life of celibacy, the companionship that comes with romantic love and planing an old age with that person, but if that works for them, fine.
One day, just like the black issue in the 70's, they will deal with gays and one day their marriages will be performed in the temple. If you just grasped your chest in horror, someone like you grasped their chest 70 years ago when they heard blacks could be married in the temple. It will be the moral thing to do.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "LDS Liberal" I would accept a gay person in those rolls that you list. However, you should know a gay single man will not be bishop, nor will any unmarried man.

I know LDS members that are pushing the limits of apostacy, but I still accept them.

You are the one who seems to be having a hard time accepting me, and the fact that the church has not changed its stance on gays for 20 years possibly 40 years.

Why are you now throwing race into argument? Could it be that so far you look hateful and bitter and are attacking me because you resent the fact that I present a kinder gentler truth than the harsh bigoted lies you live with?

orem_man_am_i
orem, UT

I believe that this website is a good thing. It is a needed discussion and demonstrates one reason why modern day prophets are necessary - to help God's children with contemporary issues. It has been helpful to me in understanding those who are dealing with this issue. However, like many have commented - from a doctrinal perspective there is really nothing new here. As members of God's church we should treat all of our "brother and sisters" with kindness and understanding.

Having said all that MAKE NO MISTAKE - the LDS Church is not "softening" it's stance on homosexuality and it never will. God does not change. The act of homosexuality is and always will be contrary to God's will. This weakness is no different than any other weakness. Men (and women) are given weakness to grow from, and like all other weakness can be overcome. "Men are that they might have joy" - if you follow God's commandments you will be happy.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

RE: Jeff

Thank you for your review, I see where we may differ. My syllogism is more based on deductive reasoning while perhaps in contrast with your syllogism inductive reasoning you may be justifying from your point of view of what you want to see. It is common in religious rationalizations. I hope you always imagine good thoughts as they help make good deeds.

Belching Cow
Sandy, UT

@UtahDemocrat
"But if I ever see one of you spiritually abusing a young person who is struggling to figure out how he or she fits into Gods plan, you will learn first hand what an angry gay man looks like."

Umm.. do tell, what do they look like? I would think they look the same as an angry straight man.

I'm not sure what you mean by spiritually abusing but any young person who is struggling to figure out how he or she fits into Gods plan can find out by listening to modern day prophets.

germanygator
Apo, AE

I'll never be able to understand how -->

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Perhaps an understanding of the pain caring family members endure on behalf of someone who has rejected the Lord's proclamtion on marraige and gender would bring some peace to those who have rejected it.

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