Comments about ‘'Stay with us,' new LDS website urges gay Mormons’

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Published: Thursday, Dec. 6 2012 9:15 a.m. MST

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Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

I would encourage anyone posting on this thread to read over it and just notice where the bitter statements are coming from, for the most part it is not the LGBT poster and their supports.

The Final Word
Alpine, UT

@Midwest Mom

"Let the hetero-sexual population make their own houses chaste, before they try remodeling their neighbors."

So, only perfect people can help or give direction to other people?

Well, that leaves exactly zero people to help one another. Last I checked we are all imperfect.

The world and church are filled with imperfect people but that doesn't render everyone incapable of helping, guiding, or giving direction.

A parent has faults/weaknesses so that means they can't instruct their children on the same weakness? Perhaps it actually gives them additional insight into overcoming or preventing that particular issue. It hardly disqualifies them.

Seems like someone might be using the "other people aren't worthy to give me correction so whatever they say is worthless" excuse.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "atl134" so then you agree with me. Heterosexual people must also control their urges the same as SSA people.

To "RanchHand" who is preventing a SSA person from getting married. I remember some recent news stories about LDS SSA people that are married and have children.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

The Final Word

I think you missed what MW Mom was saying. There is such a difference between putting yourself above others (as many LDS members do - especially with gay people) and loving those brothers and sisters with SSA, admitting that you cannot possibly understand what they are feeling or where they are coming from. Accepting that they are different than you and that you are not their judge.

So many times we simply think that gays should just avoid the temptation. YOU try being alone and unpartnered for the rest of your life. It is not a natural state of being for most humans. We like to pair up. That is a normal response and action. So they not only must fight the urge to be attracted to someone of the same sex, they also must fight the feeling of wanting to partner. Then they have to put up with us members telling them that we too have temptations. It is not even close. It sounds like a hell on earth to me...how about you?

Ted H.
Midvale, UT

Claudio,

My point was that proving something can be seen in nature is hardly good justification that such behavior should be embraced, supported, or seen as normal.

kevo
Saratoga Springs, UT

I am glad we are receiving more clarification on this issue and more exhortations to love and not discriminate because of someone's tendencies and/or choices. We would all do better to love others and work on our own imperfections before trying to "fix" someone else. Regardless of what you believe, this is a big step in the right direction.

@Final Word - I think you may have misunderstood Midwest Mom's point. I believe she was making a point against immoral hypocrites. You know, "this immoral act is bad and it's disgusting, but the fact I'm cheating on my wife isn't AS bad and disgusting." I think that's what she was saying.

Claudio
Springville, Ut

Well, Ted, I don't see that in any way, shape or form in my posts, so I don't know who you were directing your thoughts to.

What I do see from the new website and from the words of LDS Church leaders and common sense is that those with SSA are indeed supposed to be "embraced, supported" and treated as normal as anyone else with trials and difficulties in life. I'm sorry you seem to feel otherwise. Good luck with keeping that commandment...how does it go... "love one another as I hath loved you," does that sound right?

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

re:Claudio

Last time I checked Claudio Humans are NOT animals. Secondly you really have to show proof of HUMAN homosexual genes or other homosexual behavior at birth and there is NONE that exist at least none in the world of science. Set aside your political correctness just for moment and at least consider facts. I understand the need for liberals to somehow re-write the homosexual story all the way back to birth for the sake of "being fair" or perhaps shaping things into their secular world but again facts are facts. There is no human homosexual gene and there is no biological proof of homosexuality at birth.... period. You are however free to believe in whatever you choose I suppose.

donn
layton, UT

RE: Craig Clark, same sex attraction is not a sin. The sin is acting on those urges." God doesn't need a self-annointed surrogate to certify what is a sin. Let's leave it to him to judge. OK,
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart( MT 5: 27-28)

James 4:17 declares, "Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins." A sin of omission is a sin that is the result of not doing something God’s Word teaches that we should do.
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
God does grade on a curve, you must be 100%.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

re:atl134

Monogamy? You mean an individual that has only one spouse during their lifetime or at any one time? I suppose you could stretch monogamy into morality since polygamy is morally wrong today but when one speaks of morality alt134 they usually mean the biblical moral code of chastity or the law of chastity as defined by the New Testament Lord which strictly prohibits adultery and homosexuality. One can be gay but not participate in homosexual behavior which was the point that I was trying to make. Most gays (not all) reject any New Testament moral code or commandments. I believe Muslims, Jews and most other main stream religions also prohibit both adultery and homosexuality? Now if you throw out religion and define your moral compass according to the secular godless world then I guess just about anything goes.

Claudio
Springville, Ut

Patriot,

Last time I checked, humans were animals. That's the scientific family we belong to. We aren't plants, fungi, or bacteria. A basic biology course would clear that up... I think I learned it in 7th grade. Since your premise is faulty, I don't see the need to argue about the rest of your point, which overgeneralizes too much anyway to be cogent.

Due to DN's 4 post restrictions, this is it for me. I recommend you read my third post. It very clearly explains my beliefs on this issue. If you disagree with that, by all means go for it. I wish you all the best, despite your inaccurate characterizations that I am Godless, secular-minded, etc.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@patriot
Humans are not animals? really in what fantasy world? why does alt have to prove anything? you rely solely on your mythical (unproven) beliefs to justify your position. I would say evidence that homosexuality exist throughout the natural world is far more convincing anyway. Also when you talk about morality you are talking abut the new testament and your interpretation of it that is not necessarily what "people" talking about when they say morality.

the truth
Holladay, UT

WE don't why know some have homosexual desires,

but God has given us weaknesses for a reason.

God Has has us each trails ans tribulation which we must overcome.

YOu can let sexual desries and behaviour define you, or you can let righeousness and love of God define you.

The Choice is always yours.

Christ has said, talking of Marriage in Matthew 19 11-12:

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

I am not so sure some should be demanding marriage, even Christ indocates not all will be able to recieve marriage in this life.

But we must stay steadfast in the Gospel.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Redshirt1701
"so then you agree with me. Heterosexual people must also control their urges the same as SSA people."

I disagree that it's the same since heterosexual people have an out they can use where they can act on those urges, SSA people do not. There's a difference between celibacy-til-marriage and celibacy-forever. I imagine straight members would find the latter to be much more difficult to accept than the former.

"I remember some recent news stories about LDS SSA people that are married and have children."

We call those people bisexuals.

@patriot
"but when one speaks of morality alt134 they usually mean the biblical moral code of chastity or the law of chastity"

The notion of morality is not owned by any particular religion.

"define your moral compass according to the secular godless world then I guess just about anything goes."

NH, VT, and ME have the three lowest crime rates and the three highest rates of atheism. Now, if you look at all 50 states there's no correlation with crime/religion, but your notion that secularists are immoral isn't backed by the data.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

I was introduced into homosexuality at 11. When reintroduced in college I fell into deep depression. After surviving a suicide attempt; I found a (reparative) therapist who was able to put many of my feelings into perspective. He pointed out that it is perfectly normal for adolescents to want to be with their own gender and that my feelings had been sexualized, etc.
I did not choose to be gay and I will never be “cured”; but I have felt too much movement (not reversal) on the Kinsey scale to say that I am born that way. I can choose to better understand my feelings and reject extremism. For example; the current effort to ban reparative therapy because it “harms” gays is like banning water because some people drown. Perhaps those introduced to homosexuality through abuse could claim to be harmed by pro-gay therapy and ban it too. I advocate more information. While it is tedious to deal with people who view me as morally depraved, a much bigger problem are those who simply cannot tolerate non-compliance to gay dogma (Ranchhand) or who think they are tolerant merely because they hate (advocate banning reparative therapy) for fashionable reasons (Tolstoy).

Gramajane
OAKLEY, ID

Attraction does not demand action.
Just as if one is attracted to another persons spouse,
The honorable thing is to avoid contact and get on with
actions that God endorses, in my view.

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

'Stay with us' and be mocked and abused forever. The church needs you. You don't need the church.

BYU Track Star
Los Angeles, CA

The Elephant in the room wants to know. If a GLT couple who is legally and lawfully married in their state, are they welcome to worship in an LDS Chapel? If this question were being asked in Canada where (gay marriage) it is the law of the land would this be an issue still?

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

With all due respect, I don't see anything new in this website. Still proclaiming the idea of changing something that doesn't need to be changed.

If you are heterosexual good for you. If you are homosexual good for you.

Even though I consider this nothing new from the leaders of the church, I have always found LDS leaders tobe respectful, loving and genuinely caring. I don't see this site as bringing more LGBT people to the church. However, I think is wonderful to see that the church is taking this step to teach its own members to be more sensisitive with human differences. Particularly with a subject that has divided so many LDS families.

"8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; ...." I think Christianity still base their aversion to homosexuality in incorrect translations of the Bible. Unfortunately, this forum doesn't allow a more clear explanation, but a more detailed study of the NT and the historical background of its time would and will clarify our errors in this matter.

segye
portland, OR

Patriot- you comments are so ridiculous.

This is like saying- There is one group who suppresses their urges to fit the mormon norm,VS those who choose to LIVE THIER LIVES and not hide who they are to fit the norm.

You postulate that those who are "moral" will stay with the church and not become those "militant gays: who act on their feelings...

This is hatred, and completely intolerant. You are aware that much of nature is homosexual, right? That the only reason you call it "immoral" is because a supernatural, unproven deity has told you so. Or better yet, books written thousands of years ago, in a different, intolerant time, tell you to. This is ridiculous. I hope you also follow this law:

People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God
~Leviticus 21:17-18

No? Ridiculous you say? So is the repression of homosexual tendencies or the inference that they are immoral if they act on them.

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