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Comments about ‘Drafter of Utah Compact calls document 'gold standard' for fixing nation's immigration problems’

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Published: Tuesday, Dec. 4 2012 7:55 p.m. MST

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DN Subscriber 2
SLC, UT

It may qualify as "fool's gold" standard as it is nothing more or less than a deceptively packaged scheme for amnesty.

If we are going to allow ignoring the law to become the accepted behavior, then let's make it apply to all laws, for everyone. Tax laws first!

No amnesty, under any name, for any reason!

If the is what you are selling, at least have the integrity to be honest about what it is, not the innocent sounding "Utah Compact."

JayTee
Sandy, UT

The "Utah Compact" is a Utah embarrassment. It's a line-by-line revelation of how people with some stature are apparently incapable of both clarity in thought and also fairness in policy. I wouldn't be jumping up and bragging about endorsing this, because it is a total disaster, and the joke is on the Utah taxpayer and worker. But at least we know exactly where some people stand on the sticky issue.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Speaking of integrity and honesty there DN Subscriber 2

The LDS Church strongly supported the Utah Compact.
I also supported it.

Ironically, Utah Republicans - mostly Mormons - most likely yourself included -- rejected it and their advise.

Go figure.

JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt
Beverly Hills, CA

LDS Church First Presidency Statement:
As a worldwide church dealing with many complex issues across the globe, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints promotes broad, foundational principles that have worldwide application. The Church regards the declaration of the Utah Compact as a responsible approach to the urgent challenge of immigration reform. It is consistent with important principles for which we stand:

We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The Savior taught that the meaning of “neighbor” includes all of God’s children, in all places, at all times.
We recognize an ever-present need to strengthen families. Families are meant to be together. Forced separation of working parents from their children weakens families and damages society.
We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nation’s laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them.
Public officials should create and administer laws that reflect the best of our aspirations as a just and caring society. Such laws will properly balance love for neighbors, family cohesion, and the observance of just and enforceable laws.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

I believe the Church's position on this is exactly right. We can have strong borders and humane laws and policies. They are not mutually exclusive.

JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt
Beverly Hills, CA

"JayTee
Sandy, UT
The "Utah Compact" is a Utah embarrassment. It's a line-by-line revelation of how people with some stature are apparently incapable of both clarity in thought and also fairness in policy. "

So JayTee, you think the list that support the Utah Compact are "people with some stature are apparently incapable of both clarity in thought"?

LDS Church First Presidency
Governor Norm Bangerter
Deborah Bayle, United Way of Salt Lake
Lane R. Beattie, Salt Lake Chamber
Mayor Ralph Becker, Salt Lake City
Kenneth Bullock, Utah League of Cities and Towns
Mayor Wilford W. Clyde, Springville City
Mayor Peter Coroon, Salt Lake County
Karen Crompton, Voices for Utah Children
Wes Curtis, Utah Center for Rural Life, Southern Utah University
Jeff Edwards, Economic Development Corporation of Utah
U.S. Senator Jake Garn
Mayor Matthew R. Godfrey, Ogden City U.S. Congressman James Hansen
The Right Rev. Bishop Scott Hayashi, Episcopal Church in Utah
Rev. Steven Klemz, Pastor, Zion Evangelical Lutheran
Paul Mero, Sutherland Institute
Mark Shurtleff, Attorney General
Governor Olene S. Walker
The Most Rev. John C. Wester, Bishop of the Salt Lake City Catholic Diocese
Mark H. Willes, CEO/President, Deseret Management Corp.

RichardB
Murray, UT

FEDERAL SOLUTIONS --it's not just the Feds anymore with 11 of Arizona's 14 points of law in effect. Some solutions are at the state level.

LAW ENFORCEMENT-- Again, the Supreme court has dismissed two of the compacts points. Local law enforcement can ask, if a person is stopped for another reason.

FAMILIES The past several years many American families have been separated to find work. Up to 1965 we allowed the person, spouse, and children to come here on one green card. Now all of the extended family can come, over 32 people for each green card. This is a windfall for business to flood our labor pool and depress wages. It also makes it impossible for people without relatives here to get green cards. Is that fair to them? We need to return to the immediate family, not the extended family.

ECONOMY Utah's business community wants cheap labor.

A FREE SOCIETY ??? double talk. A free society does not mean a lawless one.

About 5,000 people signed it out of 3 million. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

RRB
SLC, UT

Most of the Compact authors also pushed the guest worker bills in direct conflict. It's all about business and illegal labor.

Since the LDS religion has been brought into the discussion, let's not forget what our Prophets told us about coming here illegally, and how to handle it.
D&C 42: 79, 84-86
84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
85 And if he or she shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
86 And if he or she shall lie, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.

There is nothing inhumane about deporting people, jail, or fines. It is a deterrent to further law breaking. Families that come here LEGALLY to be together, might have to wait for some to join them. Allowing people to come here when they want shows a lack of compassion to others that come legally.

Utah_1
Salt Lake City, UT

Good or bad, the Utah Compact was ignored when Utah drafted the 4 immigration laws in 2011. That was one of the reasons the Catholic Bishop wasn't excited about them. I find it pretty hypocritical to sell the Utah Compact as something it wasn't.

If we are going to have a line for people to come to this country, you can't reward those that bypass the line. They need to be sent to the back of the line. That doesn't mean you should stop treating them like people. I am in favor of simplifying and fixing legal immigration.

one day...
South Jordan, UT

Why put the economy blame on immigrants, sure WE pay lower wages and no benefits to them, but saying that they take our jobs and our money it's a lie, same lie the germans used against the jews, the government needs to fix this, everyone can contribute, citizens, perm.residents and immigrants.
Have you think about the money that can generate if immigrants have proper documentation here, they will be able to work, pay for insurance, rent, mortgage, buy cars, pay for school, college, it's about investing! plus we will know who is here, and those one that are criminals will be deported. Honestly, it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

The Utah Compact engages in the doublespeak that lumps immigrants with illegal aliens as though they were the same. The attempt is to cast a pall of bigotry on those who want our immigration laws enforced. It is a non sequitur to imply that pro-enforcement means anti-immigrant.
Further, to suggest that pro-enforcement advocates are not compassionate is offensive and judgmental.
I simply look at the Utah Compact as a statement by people who want cheap labor and higher attendance at church.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

@JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

The statement you quote is NOT a First Presidency statement, as you claim. NOWHERE on or attached to the statement is found the names or signatures of the First Presidency. Look again; you won't find them.

Many wise members of the Church understand the doctrinal requirement of proper priesthood authority and the requirement of specific invocation of said authority in matters of new church doctrine, policy, and posture, and noticed the utter lack of either in connection with the statement you quoted. Those members rejected the deceitful and intellectually dishonest Utah Compact accordingly. The statement of support was a product of the NON-priesthood Public Affairs Department -- nothing more. "...BY THOSE WHO ARE IN AUTHORITY..." (Article of Faith #5)

@Twin Lights

The notion, insinuated by some, that enforcement of U.S. immigration law is inhumane, is a lie. Similarly, the notion that the commandment to "love thy neighbor" trumps Article of Faith #12 (obeying the laws of the land), is false doctrine. "Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath NO need to break the laws of the land." (Doctrine and Covenants 58:21, upper caps mine)

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

"human dignity"

Human dignity includes respecting oneself and one's neighbor by respecting the laws and customs of society.

"The only way you pass Arizona-style laws is misinformation and flat-out lies," Shurtleff said.

The above statement is itself a lie.

Utah Compact "defined a higher moral ground."

The Utah Compact is a deceitful document which obfuscates its pro-illegal, anti-enforcement agenda behind a guise of morality. For example, its supposed "compassion" extends only to illegal aliens -- not to their numerous victims. Rewarding illegality is not compassion.

"...separate families..."

Persons who are deported as a consequence of their illegal choices are perfectly free to take their children with them.

"For Utah's elected leaders to bury their heads in the sand would be 'an embarrassment,' said Mero."

It is interesting to note Mero using a "shame technique" not dissimilar to what he has FREQUENTLY used against persons who believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law.

"The use of the word 'anchor baby' when we're talking about a child of God is offensive."

What is offensive is foreign nationals scoffing at the laws and customs of a sovereign nation with a view of taking advantage of it.

USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

We already live in Northern Mexico. They'll come in droves now.

The funny thing is, people think this is about hate. Nope. It has EVERYTHING to do with the rescue boat being crowded and overloaded...and eventually sinking taking everybody with it.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

I see so many LDS members - "Hie on the Road to Apostacy".
I especially liked RRB trying to use LDS scripture to call-out the LDS 1st Presidency.

Try reading JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt comment -- he nailed it,
but you'll still deny it.
Amazing.

Bye Bye.

I'm taking a wild guess here, but I'll bet some of these same folks are also the one's signing Petitions to Secede from the Union, think Global Warming is a Hoax, and the Pres. Obama has no birth certificate and "stole" the last election. But that's purely my guessing...

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Anti-Liar,

If you have a problem with the concept of these folks being our neighbors or the need to treat them humanely (and humane treatment could certainly include a wide variety of policies) your problem is not with me. It is with the First Presidency.

If you really think the “The statement of support was a product of the NON-priesthood Public Affairs Department” in that someone went rogue on this issue, you are living in a fantasy world. The statement would have been retracted and someone disciplined.

You are free to disagree. But please do not delude yourself into thinking this is not an official Church position.

Reality folks, please. Reality.

no fit in SG
St.George, Utah

America has changed.
Maybe if those who can't accept the fact that white people are no longer in charge, could attempt to put on a happy face and think of the United States as a Crayola crayon box with a multitude of beautiful colors.

And..... more importantly, not everyone is "bad" and is taking your job.
All better now?

3grandslams
Iowa City, IA

Why is Utah writing a law for immigrants? Are we to a point that we think all immigrants are illegal? Compacts like this do severe injustice to our neighbors who come here according to law and proper procedure, legally.

I am opposed to any laws that disparage or ignore those great immigrants who came the right way. Illegal immigration is a federal crime. Even the LDS church tells it's foreign members to not come to America unless they can do it legally.

I do favor laws that are compassionate towards illegal immigrants, especially in preserving families, but amnesty is not the answer, it wasn't in the 80's, it won't work now. In addition any resolution should not include citizenship. How to become a citizen has already been established. Citizenship should be wanted and desired, not looked upon as a handout.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

"The statement would have been retracted and someone disciplined."

Pure conjecture, Twin Lights. Sorry, but the mere absence of a formal retraction does NOT make a statement an official utterance of the First Presidency. No go. And the Public Affairs Department has NO inherent priesthood authority WHATSOEVER. Once again, and deny it all you will, but the requirement of authority, authenticity of authority, and specific invocation of authority, is a basic cornerstone of LDS doctrine.

And once again, the notion that upholding the law is inhumane, is a lie (Article of Faith #12, Ten Commandments 8, 9, and 10, D&C 58:21, and D&C 42:79, 84-86). The U.S. has the most generous immigration laws in the world. The opportunity of the typical illegal alien to put his affairs in order and return to his lawful country of residence WITHOUT having to suffer fines, jail or prison time, or confiscation of property, is exceptionally lenient.

"...concept of these folks being our neighbors..."

And WE are THEIR neighbors, too, Twin Lights. In other words, good neighborliness works both ways. This includes THEM loving THEIR neighbors, and respecting the borders, laws, and customs of a sovereign nation.

VST
Bountiful, UT

You were doing really good there @LDS Liberal until you "drug in" the side issues of succession, global warming, and birth certificates. I was going to give your comment a "vote" until you did that.

Just a suggestion: really try to stay focused on the subject of the article in the future – otherwise you just detract from the main point you are attempting to make.

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