Comments about ‘Utah Utes football: Coach Kyle Whittingham disappointed but determined’

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Published: Tuesday, Dec. 4 2012 2:23 p.m. MST

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anti BCS
Anaheim, CA

toosmartforyou

1) Is bottom dweller in the PAC 12
2) Is in a BCS Conference and isn't even good enough to qualify for a bowl
3) Only conference wins versus the only three worse teams in the PAC 12
4) The closest they'll ever get to playing in the Rose Bowl is when they play a road game at UCLA
5) Finished significantly lower than where they were predicted to finish
6) Barely beat another 10-loss Coloraddo, and got lucky to beat BYU
7) Lost to the only WAC team on their schedule

If 5-7 with no bowl is something you feel like beating your chest about, knock yourself out.

Jealous U
Alpine, UT

Spokane Ute

"We all know who played a tougher schedule this year, and will again next year."

BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams THIS SEASON; Utah only played THREE.

It's obvious which team played the most tough opponents this season.

BYU's 2013 Schedule (one more pending)
at Virginia(4-8)
#23 Texas(8-4)
Utah(5-7)
at #22 Utah State(10-2) (WAC champion)
Georgia Tech(6-7) (ACC championship game)
at Houston(5-7)
#19 Boise State(10-2) (tri-MWC champion)
at Wisconsin(8-5) (B1G champion)
Middle Tenn St(8-4)
at #1 Notre Dame(12-0) (BCS championship game)
at Hawaii(3-9)

Four ranked teams; three conference champions; and a possible defending national champion.
BYU's best opponent - #1 Notre Dame
BYU's worst opponent - Hawaii(3-9)

It remains to be seen if Utah's schedule is any "better".
Utah's best opponent - #4 Oregon
Utah's worst opponent - take your pick - Weber State(2-9), Colorado(1-11) or WSU(3-9)

It's obvious which team plays the worst opponents next season.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@Snack PAC

"Utah fans have deluded themselves into believing that playing in a bcs bowl is the pinnacle of major college football achievement."

That is the pinnacle for mid-majors. You know, teams like BYU.

Michigan is beefing up their schedule, by scheduling teams like Utah. But you also slammed Utah for dropping BYU to Big Sky schools (aka Michigan). Explain that one....

Also you don't seem to understand that Utah, Michigan, and tOSU don't need to beef up anything to qualify for the playoffs. They have to win their respective CCG. Conference play will take care of SOS by itself.

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

Two For Flinching

Sorry to burst your delusional bubble, but the pinnacle for every major college football program is winning a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, something BYU has already done and Utah fans can only dream of doing.

The explanation of beefing up a schedule is simple:

Michigan and Ohio State are beefing up their OOC schedules by scheduling other solid programs like BYU and Utah, while Utah intentionally dropped BYU to schedule teams like Weber State.

Simply winning your conference championship game WILL NOT get you into the playoffs, especially a 4-team playoff. Look no further than this season's Top 4 BCS finishers:

#1 Notre Dame
#2 Alabama
#3 Florida
#4 Oregon

As U can clearly see, NO B1G champion, NO Big 12 champion, and NO ACC champion.

If Ohio State(12-0) and #3 in AP were eligible, the Buckeyes would be #2 or #3 in the BCS, and guess what, NO PAC 12 champion.

With five power conferences + Notre Dame, and only 4 playoff spots available, it's GUARANTEED that at least one, probably two, and as many as three power conference champions WILL NOT be included in the 4-team playoff.

mussingaround
Palo Alto, CA

2fer

"...you don't seem to understand that Utah, Michigan, and [sic] tOSU don't need to beef up anything to qualify for the playoffs. They have to win their respective CCG. Conference play will take care of SOS by itself."

No, it's you who doesn't seem to understand that winning a conference championship game won't even come close to guaranteeing U a berth in the playoffs.

If the playoffs had started this season, Notre Dame, Alabama, Florida and Oregon would be the odds on favorites to make the playoffs, with Kansas State (which doesn't have a CCG), having an outside chance. CCG winners Stanford, Wisconsin, and Florida State wouldn't have a prayer of being selected.

Even with a CCG win, playing a team like Weber State instead of BYU could KILL any chance Utah might have of beating out a team like Kansas State for the fourth and final playoff spot.

Sorry to burst your arrogant "bcs" bubble, but there are no AQs for the playoffs.

Ufan
Salt Lake City, UT

Two For Flinching

Oregon(11-1) didn't even play in the PAC 12 championship game this season, yet the #4-ranked Ducks (final BCS ranking) would have a much better chance of being selected to a four-team playoff this year, than #6-ranked Stanford(11-2), which won the CCG and beat Oregon.

Just as in basketball, head-to-head and CCG winner will only be part of the equation in deciding between team #4 and team #5.

Michigan(11-1) playing Utah, BYU, UNLV and Oregon State OOC in 2015, while Utah is playing, for example, Michigan, Weber State, Colorado State and Iowa, could be the difference between Utah(11-1) making the playoff, or just missing the playoff, regardless of the head-to-head outcome of Michigan versus Utah.

The weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on the hill would never end if Utah won the PAC 12 championship, but just missed the playoffs because Utah played Weber State instead of BYU.

Hypothetical, yes.

Possible, also yes.

And that's the kind of scenario Utah fans should seriously consider before blowing off playing a D1-AA team instead of BYU as inconsequential.

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

I don't recall Hill ever mentioning the playoffs when talking about the reason Utah dropped BYU in 2014 and 2015. I do recall Hill saying that playing Michigan and BYU in the same season was more than the Utes could handle (that is, if the Utes wanted to finish bowl eligible).

After this last season, it's easy to see why Hill and Whittingham have adopted the scheduling philosophy of scheduling an A, B, and C game each year - A. challenging (BYU); B. decent, but very winnable (like Utah State before this season); C. gimme (Weber State).

Interestingly, the exact three teams Utah scheduled last season, to play next season.

If the PAC 12 was really serious about qualify teams for the playoffs, they'd have an 8-game conference schedule, instead of 9. Playing that extra game ensures an unbalanced home/road conference schedule and guarantees 6 more conference losses each year.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@ Jealous You

No need to get excited. It's easy to reel off names of teams and act like it means something. It's another to back up your position with statistics and facts. Strenght of schedule this year.
Per Sagarin Rankings:
Utah = 26
BYU = 56
Per RPI Rankings:
Utah = 70
BYU = 111
I'm sure you realize strength of schedule is based on your entire schedule? As far as next year, I'd be willing to bet Utah's will be higher at year end. That's the way it goes when you play in one of the top 3 conferences in the country; as opposed to hand picking your opponenents. I hope this helps with you strength of schedule understanding.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Rockwell

Sorry, but it really doesn't matter who Utah, or any PAC 12 team, play in the non-conference. Run the table, and you will be in a playoff. Have you ever looked at who Oregon, Alabama, LSU and Ohio State play in non-conference games? Check out Oregon's this year. FYI, a PAC 12 team would have qualified in each of the last three years, for a four team playoff. That's what happens when you go 11-1 in the second or third toughest conference in the country.

U 90
Corona, CA

Jealous U, Spokane ute beat me to the punch. You seem to have overlooked the strength of schedule metric when making your sos analysis

Snack, you still didn't answer the question. Has byu ever beaten two teams in the same season that finished the year ranked in the top 25?

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Spokane Ute

"Sorry, but it really doesn't matter who Utah, or any PAC 12 team, play in the non-conference. Run the table, and you will be in a playoff."

You don't have the slightest shred of evidence that that is true.

If Notre Dame, Texas, Alabama, and Ohio State had all been undefeated this season, do you really expect us to believe that an undefeated Utah team would have been picked over any of those elite teams?

SOS only matters when two teams have equivalent overall records, but the only teams people and pollsters really pay attention to are the very good teams on your schedule and BYU blew away Utah in that regard in 2012, and could easily repeat that in 2013.

Overall record means much more than SOS - see final Sagarin ratings for 2011 and 2012 if you don't believe that.

-------

U 90

"Has BYU ever beaten two teams in the same season that finished the year ranked in the top 25?"

Yes!

BYU beat two Top 15 teams on the road (Air Force and UCLA) in 1983, part of that 24-game winning streak that culminated in BYU winning the 1984 National Championship.

U 90
Corona, CA

Uteanymous,

Thanks for the research. My question was in response to certain Y fans who claimed 2008 was a fluke when utah beat 4 top 25 teams. I find the fluke comment hypocritical considering byu has not matched this feat. In fact in 1994 Utah beat 3 teams in the top 18 (Oregon, Colorado state and byu) and I'm pretty sure byu nas not beaten 3 ranked teams. So any talk of flukes is completely baseless especially when coming from the fan of a team who has't matched the accomplishment.

backpacn
Sandy, UT

Spokane Ute

You conveniently chose to ignore these little details during your vast research:

Per Sagarin Rankings:
#36 BYU
#51 Utah

Per RPI Rankings:
#55 BYU
#78 Utah

Obviously, SOS doesn't mean much if you don't win.

-------

It doesn't really matter anyway, since we'll have an 8-team playoff long before the Utes even sniff an undefeated PAC 12 season, but you're only fooling yourself if you think that an undefeated Utah team would be a lock for a 4-team playoff.

An undefeated Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Alabama, with a one-loss LSU or Georgia could easily be selected over an undefeated Utah, leaving the Utes on the outside looking in, even with an undefeated PAC 12 title under their belts.

Chances are very likely that we'll continue to see a couple of SEC teams in the playoffs more often than not, which would only leave two spots available for the B1G, Big12, ACC, PAC12, Notre Dame, and/or a non-power conference team having a great season.

What makes you or any other Utah fan think that an undefeated Utah team would be a lock for one of those two remaining playoff berths?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@two fer

I love how easily proof is summarily dismissed by utah "fans". You get proven wrong, pretend it doesn't happen then question the knowledge and sanity of the ute "fan" that disagree's with you.

LOL!

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@Duckhunter

You're right, that one Utah poster outweighs all of the other Ute fan who (the vast majority) who still support Coach Whitt. That makes your weak jab at Ute fans in the other article completely valid and true despite the fact that BYU fans have been calling for Bronco and Doman's head all season. Congratulations.

@ everyone else

In 2004 Utah climbed to 5 and 6 in the AP and coaches poll and in '08 Utah was number 7 at the end of the regular season, and that was with no respect and a weak SOS. If Utah ran the table in the PAC-12 there is no way Utah won't be ranked high enough to automatically qualify for the playoffs. The advantage of being an undefeated PAc-12 champ....

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

2fer

"If Utah ran the table in the PAC-12 there is no way Utah won't be ranked high enough to automatically qualify for the playoffs."

Sorry to burst your crimson-colored bubble, but there's NO WAY an undefeated Utah would finish ahead of an undefeated Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, LSU, Georgia, or Alabama, and very little chance of an undefeated Utah finishing ahead of a one-loss Alabama, LSU, Georgia or Florida. And that doesn't even consider the possibility of an undefeated Miami, Virginia Tech or Florida State from the ACC, or another undefeated Notre Dame.

Bottom line:

There are so many scenarios where an undefeated PAC 12 champion Utah could be shut out of a 4-team playoff that it's ludicrous to even suggest that Utah would be a lock for the playoffs simply by running the table.

scott
Alpine, UT

Two for Flinching

"The advantage of being an undefeated PAc-12 champ..."

would be dwarfed by the disadvantage of being a non-elite, johnny-come-lately program with no national legacy.

Picture Iowa State or Washington State or Indiana or Vanderbilt competing against Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Oklahoma, Texas, Miami, or Florida State for that 4th and final playoff spot. If the records and SOS are similar, which they will be, we all know which teams would be the real contenders, and which teams would only be pretenders.

The power brokers of college football protect their own.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@ Backpan

Strenght of schedule was questioned, not final ranking. You may want to read the post before calling some one out in the future. Of course record matters more, but that's not what the topic of conversation was.

Uteanymous,

You sure know your Cougars, even when you have to go back almost 30 years.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Rockwell,

Right, and the earth is flat. Like all of those teams are going to go undefeated. Again, who did Oregon play in the non-conference this year?

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

Spokane Ute

You're seriously trying to compare Utah (a team still looking for its first win against a PAC 12 team with a winning record) to Oregon (a team that is close to dislogding USC as the PAC 12's premier team)?

Rockwell never said all of those teams would have to be undefeated. All it would take for an undefeated PAC 12 champion Utah to be left out of the playoffs would be for Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Alabama to go undefeated and a one-loss LSU, Florida, or Georgia to suffer that one loss to Alabama. That's a VERY realistic scenario. Throw in an undefeated or one-loss Notre Dame, or a undefeated ACC champion like Florida State, Virginia Tech or Miami, and Utah's chances for being included in a 4-team playoff would be tenuous at best.

If a scenario similar to the above did occur, how much more comfortable would Utah fans feel about their chances if Michigan and BYU were on Utah's OOC schedule, rather than Michigan and Weber State?

Scheduling just to ensure a bowl game could come back to bite the Utes in a big way.

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