Why is Timpview and Juan Diego not moving up a classification????
Re USC FanOf course the East principle backed away from his
statement. He ran away from that faster than a 10 legged mongoose. I believe
he said after.."it wouldn't be fair to the school to not have his
talents". Joke city.
Makes no sense that Kanab was moved down but Parowan and Enterprise which are
almost the same size stay up. I guess as long as long as the larger
classification work out who cares about the lower classes?
Anybody know if East High School's principal held true to his promise of
resigning if the board allowed East to play in the playoffs?
Correction to my previous post: I mean Region 3 not 4. Oops!
@ Serenity Now, if you're going to try to puff out your chest and proclaim
the "SL valley and northeastern Utah valley" teams should not have to be
in the same region (Even though it geographically makes sense), at least get
your facts straight. Your 2012 Champion Beetdiggers played against Region 1
Champ Syracuse, not Fremont. And while Jordan is a great team, don't
forget Syracuse lost their starting QB in the Quarters, during their victory
over Alta. Not to mention, Syracuse followed that up in the Semi's with a
dominant victory over another one of your Region 4 "unbeatable" Bingham
Miners, with a back up QB.In addition, if you're going to try to
drive your point home by putting the runner-up in parenthesis when it favors
Region 4's case, might I suggest listing the runner-up from other years.
It might surprise you, that Region 1 sends its fair share of teams to the title
game as well, and their region is set up geographically, and not based off
number of talented teams in the same region.
why playSorry for the mistake. I missed Richfield when I typed it up
but didn't forget them or leave them out. I had them in the 3A South with
Canyon View, Cedar, Hurricane, Desert Hills, Juab and N. Sanpete. FatManI have never played 8-man ball but I am very familiar with
it and have first hand experience with it every season. I will concede that it
is better than nothing but my point was if smaller 1A schools like Rich can
field an 11-man team and compete then bringing 8-man football to Utah for 1A so
more schools would participate probably wouldn't help. I think Rural Sports
Fan hit on the reason they don't play is because of fall baseball and that
is where those school's tradition is.The number of kids you put
in uniform is dependent on schools building their programs from within not being
aligned from outside. I've seen 3A teams that can only put 40 kids in
uniform out of almost 800 in the student body and 2A schools have close to 100
kids out of 400. Traditions are built and lost from within not given and taken
Unequal representation...What is not right is the fact that when the
first alignment came out and some schools were upset with the format, they were
allowed to voice their opinion to the Board of Trustees...meaning they had their
voice heard and effectively made changes to help them...so the final format
comes out, after their voice, and whomever was happy with the first alignment
and unhappy with the final format could not voice their opinion...very, very
unfair! It would behoove every school during the next realignment to voice
concern so they can be heard...do not be happy with the first proposal because
it will change and you will not have a voice in the final format.The
BOT should be ashamed with this oversight and not allowing the playing field to
be equal to all.But then again, the UHSAA almost always listens to a
few vocal ones and not the whole...the UHSAA is at times a great organization
and at other times you wonder if anyone of them have a IQ over 50.
I like the way Me Myself and I is thinking his alignment would help 1A a ton.
@Me, Myself and II think you need to include all schools in order
for your breakdown to make sense. I'm not sure who all might be missing,
but I do know Richfield would like to continue playing football. Or does that
make your bracketing not work out?
@ Me, Myself and II'm guessing you've never played 8-man
football. I played both 8-man and 11-man in high school and the 8-man game was
significantly more fun. Call it pretend football or whatever, each to his own,
but it's not all trick plays and it's extremely fun to play the
linebacker and safety positions defensively. I once played in a game that ended
in a 6-0 score. There is plenty of room for good defense at that level. The
main reason most of the 1A non-football schools won't consider playing the
game is they don't feel that they can be competitive with Duchesne,
Monticello, Rich, etc. If those schools are truly committed to 11-man, then why
not allow the rest to form their own 8-man region and at least give them the
experience of playing football. You think 8-man is silly, it's nowhere
near as silly as playing baseball during football season.
Orem schools got the shaft on this one. Way to kill the Provo/Orem rivalries.
Re: Scott C2011-2013---Manti has won at least 4 State Championships
as the largest school in 2A. (football 2x, softball, soccer)2009-2011---Manti won 0 State Championships as the smallest school in 3A.If those lessons that come from losing are so wonderful why is it that
Manti works so hard to stay in 2A?
Dividing by numbers and telling folks to deal with it is fine on paper, but
without some parity, programs and kids tend to suffer, no one wants to play for
a team that has no chance, and when a team with 75 kids plays a team with 25 in
uniform, there is a real mismatch there, no matter how big the student body is,
or how close that silly ratio is. As for the travel issue..it is
obscene that the large schools cry about traveling 20-40 minutes for a game,
when the smaller schools travel 4-5 hours (and more) for half of their season.
Some of the larger 1A schools that don't play football have a justified
fear of losing a winning tradition. Wayne and Panguitch have some real pride in
baseball, and they understandably don't want to lose that.I
don't think the top 4 1A teams would mind competing with the smaller 2A
teams on a yearly basis, no matter what the classification was called. But
there is a huge difference in playing a team that has 350 kids in three grades
and puts 40 kids in uniform, versus a school with 275 kids and 65 kids in
I don't know what the key to success is, but the key to failure is trying
to please everyone. Keep it simple.
FatMan86 is on the right track, I have been telling people this for the past few
years. If the current 1A schools wanted to move up and play 2A they could and
the rest of the 1A schools that play basketball could play 8 man football. I
think these schools would love it and it would give kids an opportunity to
participate. Is that not what the UHSAA is all about? The only other
question I have is how do you let Judge move to 4A in all other sports and leave
them at 3A for football, they should be in the same classification as Juan
FatMan86You can call 8-man ball what you want but to me it's
not football. It resembles is but isn't the same. The closest thing I can
compare 8-man to is intramural flag football with pads. When your entire
offensive playbook is pretty much trick plays and any number is eligible to be a
receiver it just doesn't sit quite right. Most teams I know that play 8-man
would rather play 11-man even if it meant going "ironman" but their
state associations etc won't allow them to. 8-man equals a program on life
support, not football.Secondly you wouldn't add many schools
even to 8-man. Most of the larger 1A school currently don't play football
at all. Why would they decide to if 1A played 8-man? Milford has 85 students in
their top 3 classes and along with Rich (90 students in their top 3) play
football and Rich is highly competitive. Panguitch, Wendover, Pinnacle, Wayne,
St. Joseph and Legacy are all larger and could field 11-man teams but
don't. So why would they decided to play if there was 8-man in Utah?
The IRS agent is on to something. Let the schools decide.
1A in football needs to adopt 8-man. Right now there are only 9 schools in Utah
playing football at the 1A level, and according to this article, there are 4
that could die any day. So adopt 8-man for 1A, and give schools that are
currently successful at 1A (like Duchesne) the option of moving up to 2A, or
staying down to play 1A 8-man. Also this will give you a chance to start adding
schools that currently don't play football because of their smaller
numbers. Idaho has over 30 schools playing 8-man football at the 1A level right
now. Here in Utah, most of the schools play baseball in the fall. That is
silly! Fall is football season. Give these small school kids the chance to
play the great game of football.
This is crazy. Way too many pans in the fire! I wish we would go to 4
classifications and have region and state mean something not have 6 champions.
Not everyone needs a trophy there are great lessons learned when you don't
2010 5A basketball champs, Alta.
The one that gets me is that Payson begged to go 3AA because they couldnt
compete in 4A. So, for non sports they are basically in last years region 12
with Richfield thrown in and without Spanish and Delta. But for football they
are in with the St George schools? I believe you will see Payson football
completely die out within a few years. I think that they should have stayed in
the same region for all sports.
The solution is simple. Let the schools decide, and create their own regions -
similar to the collegiate structure. The schools that join other
"like-minded" schools. If the most important thing for a school is to
play in the most competitive football league, they can make that decision. The
schools can choose to keep historic rivalries if they want. The schools that
have the budget, or are OK with travel can get themselves in to a league that
would require more travel. I have to think that the pricipals and AD's
would be able to work out what is best for their school. From their, I think you
could easily separate out the different classifications, based primarily on
enrollment. A league that included Waterford, Rowland Hall and the Summit County
schools isn't going to accept Alta, and Alta isn't going to want to
play in that league. The schools could quickly work it out. If a new school ie
Summit Academy comes onboard, they just petition to get in to the league that
best fits their competition level. Problem solved.
The 5A east-west address proposal by the Granger principal makes no sense from a
competition and balancing perspective. Putting all the best sports programs in
a single region (which is what his Region IV would look like with Alta,
Brighton, Jordan, Lone Peak, PG and AF) is unfair to the teams within that
region who would beat up on each other with only one region champ crowned, and
seeding for playoffs and home-field advantage in the early rounds dictated by
the happenstance of region alignment rather than quality. You
don't believe me that the "best programs" are from southeastern SL
valley and northeastern Utah valley? Here are the 5A champions in the four most
popular sports (2 from boys, 2 from girls) during the past 5 years:Football:2012: Jordan (demolished Fremont)2011: Lone Peak2010: Bingham2009: Bingham2008: AltaBasketball
(boys):2012: Lone Peak2011: Lone Peak2010: ???2009: West
Jordan (against Lone Peak)2008: Lone PeakSoccer (girls):2012: Viewmont (against Alta)2011: Alta2010: Alta2009:
Alta2008: AltaVolleyball (girls):2012: Pleasant Grove2011: Davis2010: Lone Peak2009: Pleasant Grove2008: Lone
PeakThe written plan should be adopted as is.
I agree with the idea of getting rid of the inter-region play-in. In addition I
say no bye weeks just take the top 8 teams in each classification and start the
quarterfinals like they used to. With that format all classifications can play
their respective championship games at Rice Eccles, 1A and 2A on either Friday
or Saturday and 3A 4A and 5A on the other.
Why dont we just keep everything the same and stop trying to make everyone
happy? So many little schools are throwing a fit cause they cant compete.
Hurricane is a prime example of how hard work, dedication, and consistency can
make you a better team. They used to be the laughing stock of region 9. They
used to be a joke. They implimented a very basic, simple, hard nose football
program, and after several years they are a football power house. They have
stayed in 3A the whole time. They didnt complain about not being able to
compete, they did something about it. Why doesnt everyone else?
I had LCA in my 1A north region...just missed them when I typed it up. Thanks
for pointing that out 2afan
Knowsabunch.....To go along with your topic of meaningful region
champs....how about this?Region Champ gets a bye in the first
round...Second and THird seeds fight it off in quarterfinals...The rest are getting ready for next season....End the meaningless
first-round blowouts and get ready for football in October!
4 Classifications of 32 schools each. 4 eight-team regions in each
classification. Put the extra schools in 1A because most of those schools
don't have all the sports anyway. Base it on population...nothing else. I
hate the argument that Lone Peak can't travel to Alta becaue you change
county lines, but North and South Summit can travel to San Juan and nobody
cares. Everything right now is too watered down. It should mean something to
win your region and even make the state playoffs, let alone win them. I could
fix this issue before lunch.
you forgot LCA which should stay in 1a for football. They have only 25 plyers
and rarely compete.
Here is how I would divide the classifications for football.1A Ratio
2.05 to 11A WestEnterpriseParowanKanabMilfordDiamond Ranch1A EastWhitehorseMonument ValleyMonticelloAltamontDuchesneRich2A Ratio 2.3 to
12A SouthSan Juan GrandEmeryN. SevierS. SevierBeaverGunnison2A NorthN. SummitS.
SummitMillardDeltaALASummit AcademyManti3A Ratio 2.11 to 13A SouthCanyon ViewCedarHurricaneDesert HillsJuabN. Sanpete3A NorthBear RiverCarbonJuan DiegoUnionGrantsvilleMorganJudge4A Ratio 1.61 to 1Pine ViewDixieSnow CanyonSalem HillsSpanish ForkPaysonOremProvoMaple MountainTimpanogasMountain ViewSpringville Park CityUintahWasatchCorner
CanyonHighlandStansburyTooeleBen LomandOgdenLoganBox ElderBonnevilleWoods X5A
Ratio 1.31 to 1 (5A and 6A Not in regions)TimpviewMurraySkylineCyprusKearnsBountifulRoyEastOlympusSky ViewHillcrestClearfieldGrangerBrightonMountain CrestJordanWestlakeWest JordanTaylorsvilleViewmontFremontLaytonWeberNorthridge6A Ratio 1.3 to 1LehiPleasant GroveCottonwoodSyracuseWestHunterHerrimanRivertonAmerican ForkCopper HillsLone PeakDavisBinghamAlta
5A should have gone like this:Region 1- layton, Northridge,
Syarcuse, Fremont, Davis, Viewmont, Weber.... (North)Region 2-
Jordan, Alta, Cottonwood, Taylorsville, West, Brighton.......(East)Region 3- West Jordan, Copper Hills, Herriman, Bingham, Riverton,
Hunter.....(West)Region 4- Lone Peak, American Fork, Pleasant Grove,
Lehi, Westlake, Mountain View....(South) *Granger stays 4A*North stays the same*Region 2 is East of Redwood Road, close to I-15Region 3 is West of Redwood Road, Close to BangerterRegion 4 is all Utah
County!Not as hard as UHSAA makes it out to be!
You have to have a full 5A region in Utah County! You have to Lone
Peak, PG, AF, Lehi, Westlake, and I'm sorry but Timpview should be 5A! That could be region 4,Putting Bingham, Riverton, Herriman, Copper
Hills, West Jordan, and Tville. That right there would make travel
arrangements at an all time low! Binghams farthest game would be to
Herriman,Lone Peak would have to only to out to West Lake, which is better
then driving Bingham and playing. Region 1 should have its own
region like they do. The big deal is the 4a-5A schools who we
determine just off Enrollment.Saying West is a 5A school, but East is a 4A
school, dumb! Skyline has plumeted to 4A, But just make sure
there is 6 5A teams in utah county. Make sure Spanish Fork is going
4A, no more 3A for that school is takes MASSIVE pride inthere sports programs!
Since when is competition about everyone being on a level playing field. If
making every school competitive in every activity is what the UHSAA is after all
they'll accomplish is giving themselves a big headache every two years
while ticking off one school to appease another. The UHSAA shouldn't worry
about making any team or club competitive, that is the responsibility of the
individual schools, their administrators, coaches, students etc. All the UHSAA
can really do is group schools together first off by enrollment keeping the
ratio of the biggest and smallest schools in all classifications as close as
possible. Travel and geography while they should be addressed shouldn't be
a deciding factor. As far as rivalries are concerned they too should be the
responsibility of individual schools and can live on even if teams are in
different classifications.A fair and level playing field only means
each team is held to the same regulations and rules. Not each team is
competitive with all their opponents.
The East-West proposal for 5A makes way too much sense, adopt it!!
I don't understand the board's reasoning sometimes...well make that
most of the time. They recently told the Ben Lomond High School
administration that the population of the alternative High School, George
Washington High, would be included in the student population of Ben Lomond
because it resides within their boundaries. This decision pushed Ben
Lomond's overall student population up over the limit and into a higher
classification where it makes it difficult for them to compete. Even though very
few of the students at the alternative high school participate in sports; the
board felt it necessary to include GW in.Can't wait until two
years from now for the next realignment process when the board will probably
come up with the bright idea to include the Utah School for the Deaf and Blind
and the Millcreek Youth Correctional Facility in Ben Lomond’s population
count. After all those facilities lie within the boundaries of Ben Lomond as