Comments about ‘What's new: LDS couple explores implications of God's love in 'The God Who Weeps'’

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Published: Sunday, Nov. 18 2012 5:00 a.m. MST

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tomstpete
SAINT PETERSBURG, FL

I agree with the statement that knowing who God is is of critical importance. But I'm puzzled as to why, in discussions with Latter-day Saints, they seem to minimize the differences between the LDS attributes of God and the Biblical attributes of God. I.e., in the Bible, God says "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10) and other passages declare that there's only one true God. And yet there are many Gods according to Mormonism, including three for this world. When I mention these things Im routinely told by my Mormon friends that I'm splitting doctrinal hairs which are unimportant. This is very confusing. is the nature of God important or not?

samhill
Salt Lake City, UT

"Together, Terry and Fiona have produced a thoughtful work that makes antiquated the notion women are the Christians and men the scriptorians."

I've never heard anyone say such a thing.

Where in the world did you get that "notion" from Kurt?

donn
layton, UT

RE: Tomstpete, is the nature of God important or not. Yes,
The God Who Weeps”. Jesus wept. John 11:35 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us(1John 3:16)God on the Cross.
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.(1John 5:20).

RE: We lived as spirit beings in the presence of God before we were born into this mortal life. Only Christ pre-existed not man. We didn’t have a spiritual existence prior to earth.( 1 Cor 15:46)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(14) The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (John 1:1,14).

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

tomstpete,

I have read the NT specifically looking for the Triune God. I do not find him. Instead, I find a Christ who consistently refers to his father as a fully separate being.

donn,

Jews believed in a pre-existence for at least some spirits.

"1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

If that was a misunderstanding, it is not one he corrected.

donn
layton, UT

@Twin Lights, If that was a misunderstanding, it is not one he corrected(John 9:1-4). Wrong,

Who sinned..? The Rabbis had developed a principle that There is no death without sin, and there is no suffering without iniquity. They were even capable of thinking that a child could sin in the womb or that its soul might have sin in a preexistent state. They also held that terrible punishments came on certain people because of the sin of their parents as verse 3 explains Jesus contradicts these beliefs.

In (2Tim 1:9 & Titus 1:2)God existed before time, implying he created time.
… God who gives life to the dead and Calls into Being things that were not.(Romans 4:17 NIV)

RE: the Triune God,’ If Christianity was something we were making up, of course we would make it easier. But it is not. We cannot compete, in simplicity, with people who are inventing religions [JS]. How could we? We are dealing with fact. Of course anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about." “Mere Christianity” C.S. Lewis gives some other analogies of the Tri(3) Unity.

Kevin J. Kirkham
Salt Lake City, UT

tomstpete:..in the Bible, God says "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10) and other passages declare that there's only one true God. And yet there are many Gods according to Mormonism..
KJK:The problem lies with you taking the verse out of context. The issue in this and the surrounding chapters addresses idolatry, not exaltation. The Bible says that believers receive the same reward as Christ and will sit on his throne, be given a crown and will share/partner in God's nature.

tomstpete:..is the nature of God important or not?
KJK:Sure it is. This is why LDS reject the Greek/pagan inspired Athanasian Trinity. It preaches "another Jesus".

Donn:The Rabbis had developed a principle that There is no death without sin, and there is no suffering without iniquity. They were even capable of thinking that a child could sin in the womb or that its soul might have sin in a preexistent state.
KJK:I’d love to see some Jewish sources about this. Also, your CS Lewis quote still doesn’t change the fact that The Athanasian Trinity had pagan/Greek philosophical origins.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Donn,

Christ could make quantum physics explainable to a three year old. Yet he could not provide a simple explanation of the Triune God? It just doesn't wash. And I like CS Lewis too.

As you say “They were even capable of thinking that a child could sin in the womb or that its soul might have sin in a preexistent state.” Verse 3 contradicts that the man sinned (and that physical ailment was the result of sin), but not the concept of a preexistence.

I agree that God created time and that he existed before it and will exist after it.

donn
layton, UT

RE: KJK: LDS reject the Greek/pagan inspired Athanasian Trinity. Wrong,
Origen believed in the pre-existence and transmigration of souls. The Council of Constantinople in 453 CE posthumously excommunicated him. (Ecc 12:7)… the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
RE: Twin Lights, a simple explanation of the Triune God
.
The word "Trinity" was first used by Tertullian (c.155-230)well before the creed.

From JS the Inspired version. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one (*heis) these three agree as one(**en) (1John 5:7,8 KJV & JST ) .

one= en(John 10:30. We are one=(en)they are one=(en) Jn., 17:20-22. One in unity , true.
(**en 1722, Preposition) But (*heis,1520=the#1) different Greek words.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD(YHWH) our God(Elohim) is One(Echad) LORD(YHWH)..(Deut 6:4)Shema

3 persons one God. "one in substance”. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person(substance, 5287).Hebrews 1:3

Kurt Manwaring
Taylorsville, UT

SAMHILL-

The genesis for the comment comes from the following quote by Elder Neal A. Maxwell:

"We need more women who are gospel scholars and more men who are Christians."

I could have probably worded that sentence better by emphasizing that Fiona's excellent scholarship made this particular notion "more antiquated" rather than merely "antiquated." However, the fact this false stereotype is completely foreign to you is a reason to rejoice. I hope as time goes on even fewer people will be aware that such a notion ever existed.

The sentence was worded as it appears so as to reinforce the idea that men and women are equally capable of both living and studying the gospel. While I am pleased you have never heard of such a thing, unfortunately I know others who have. I hoped to do my small part to further disabuse them of the misconception.

Please accept my apologies if I unintentionally caused offense or confusion in my description.

KTC John
Wetumpka, AL

Here is the Jesus that I, as a convert to Mormonism, believe in, and if He is "different" than someone else's Jesus, then so be it. I believe in the resurrected Jesus who performed the great atoning sacrifice for all mankind. He was the only begotten son of a separate Heavenly Father and was born of the Virgin Mary. Jesus is the only name under Heaven by which man might be saved. He is the one who appeared as a resurrected being to his apostles as set forth in Luke 24:36-48, and plainly said that he had a body of flesh and bones and was not just a spirit. He requested those present to handle Him with their hands, and He ate fish and honey comb to prove his physical reality. (Ever tried the physical exercise of chewing a honeycomb?) He later ascended to heaven and will return in great glory as the "same" (Acts 1:11)Jesus. My Jesus has not died again. He has not transformed himself into some other being, nor has he in some unexplainable way become of "one substance" with his Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost. "Trinity" is a non-Biblical word.

A Scientist
Provo, UT

I have little problem with "the God who weeps."

I have a HUGE problem, however, with the god who threatens with destruction those who refuse to believe in him, and bow to him, and worship him.

Read 3 Nephi 9:1-13 and you will see a "Jesus" who brags about destroying 16 cities and millions of innocent people, then threatens the traumatized survivors with destruction if they don’t turn to him!

That is not a god who weeps in any ethical or moral way.

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