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Looming 'fiscal cliff' makes election friction look tame

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  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    @george
    Sorry, I missed something?? We all know the results of Karl Marx ideas. His were worse that Lernin. The doctrines they espoused have obviously created one of the greatest disasters in world history. Sometime read the contgressional documents concerning the 30 million Russians (Stalin)
    killed to maintain control of the people of Russia. The first to go were the elite scholars along weioth the media mogul and the Religious leaders.
    Your statement amazes any American who lived through those years, myself included.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Nov. 16, 2012 4:55 a.m.

    worf
    Don't forget that everyone will have health insurance under Obamacare. We may not have many doctors and nurses after they finish quitting the profession, but we cannot forget that we will all be covered by insurance. We may never be able to receive the treatments and medicines, but we will all be insured by Obamacare. Employers may not carry the quality of health insurance any longer, but we will all be covered by Obamacare. Come on America. Look at the bright side. I'd much rather be covered by insurance than to actually receive health care, wouldn't you? Ouch! For some reason I cannot get my tongue out of my cheek. I better go see a doctor. After all, I'm covered by Obamacare!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 15, 2012 11:01 p.m.

    Let's tax the rich?

    Wow! It’s beginning. A short list of companies planning lay-offs after the election, because of the wealthy projecting added costs of Obama care:

    •Texas Instruments
    •Abbott labrotory
    •Zynga Boston
    •NBC
    •Welch Allyn
    •Dana Holding Corp
    •Stryter
    •Boston Scientific
    •Medtronic
    •Smith & Nephew
    •Covidien
    •Kinetic Concepts
    •St Jude Medical
    •Hill Rom
    •Murray Energy
    •HMX Group
    •Detroit Police
    •Pierce Manufacturing
    •Tooele County Government
    •Aviation Services
    •Potash Corp.
    •PaPa Johns Pizza
    •Applebees
    •Westgate Resorts

    A short and growing list. The golden goose is gone.

  • TimBehrend Auckland NZ, 00
    Nov. 15, 2012 8:05 p.m.

    JWB : We are Lemmings by the millions this winter.

    Mass lemming suicides are a fiction faked for financial rewards by Disney. Media capitalism and the representation of nature may have strong parallels to political partisanship and representation of economics than is comfortable to admit. Using a term like "fiscal cliff" to describe what many economists consider a "fiscal hill" is the smallest part of the similarity.

  • Pack Layton, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 2:24 p.m.

    Leadership reflects attitude.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 12:14 p.m.

    @jasonlivy -- I work every day. I love my family. I go to church every Sunday. I try to be kind. I try to be a valuable citizen. Why do you think only people who voted for Romney do those things? Every person that I personally know that voted for Obama does those things. You have a very bad stereotype of Obama supporters that just isn't accurate. We work just as hard as you do. We just think that approaching the debt and deficit with 100% deep cuts isn't the way to approach the problem. We think that a balanced approach with some tax increases is better. We are happy that all people will be able to obtain health care, even those who are unfortunate enough to have pre-existing conditions. We believe that our country is best served if we support education and improve our infrastructure. We think that we should first try to negotiate with foreign countries if at all possible before jumping right into military strikes. You are right that something will have to be done about Medicare, but I am hopeful that everyone recognizes that at this point and will work toward a solution.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    @jasonivy
    why have you created such a sad world for yourself?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    To "worf" I am saying that Bush was slowly marching to Socialism, while Obama is using rollerblades and a jetpack to get to socialism.

    It wasn't just the Bush policies it was the things that he didn't do in combination with the Progressive policies over the past 100 years.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Nov. 15, 2012 3:16 a.m.

    “The government spends about $3.5 trillion a year,” said Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), a member of the House Budget committee. According to him, “$2.5 trillion of that is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and interest on the debt.”

    Robert Samuelson has wwarned about this for decades. The day is here. So, congress, what are you going to do?

  • George Bronx, NY
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:43 p.m.

    @peacemaker
    Unfortunately your own statement shows the error in your"facts' and that you have no Idea what Karl Marx actually said. If a country where actually operating under Marx's theory there would be no "state" to control wealth and all means of production would be under the control of the people that produce the goods.

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:36 p.m.

    Tolstoy,

    I'm glad you quoted me. I make no apologies for my comments. What you've read is someone who is fed up and I don't think I'm alone.

    Many of us who work everyday, have families we struggle for, are honest and upright, go to church every Sunday, try to do unto others kindly, be valuable citizens in a country we love, and have voluntarily served in the military to protect our way of life are not happy with the direction our country is taking. Our president failed in his job, yet we rewarded him with a second term. He doesn't deserve to be there.

    The worst part is it's not going to get any better. The economy isn't going to magically correct itself, especially with a big spending liberal at the helm! Taxing the rich without cuts in entitlement spending will make very little difference. We are heading off the cliff and there's little anyone can do.

    Go ahead and pat yourself on the back. Those of you who voted for Obama were victorious! Congratulations. Your side won. Bask in the limelight now because soon the honeymoon will be over.

  • ATiredDude Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:08 p.m.

    Fiscal responsibility. What a concept!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:08 p.m.

    RedShirt,

    Are you saying Obama used the Bush policies that got us into this mess?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:03 p.m.

    I think the average Obama voter understands what the fiscal cliff is as much as they do about anything else - on a scale of 1-10 about a -3. Like trying to explain calculus to a 3 year old.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:58 p.m.

    @thinkin man
    Sadly I think you are right about January however I think it is a little short sighted to blame only Obama.

  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:57 p.m.

    Tolstoy
    Not divisive, just factual based on past history in Many Countries of the world. The Russian writer quoted has obviously been a victim of the 70 year Russian government control of everything which ended in one of the greatest falls over a cliff in the history of the world. To correct that process will surely be the peaceful thing to do when this country can protect itself and maintain our peace and protect us from from the Russian experience.

    Why is it that liberals continue to support destructive policies. Should we follow the leader over the cliff? Maybe we should all wake up and really understand what America stands for.
    Is that being devisive?

  • Thinkin\' Man Rexburg, ID
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    Prediction: Nothing substantial will be put in place by January -- a temporary bandage at best. Reason: It takes two sides to compromise, and Obama has never compromised on anything.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:28 p.m.

    "I just can't understand, no matter how I look at it, why our nation voted for Obama. This will go down as one of the worst elections for a president in our history."

    "Liberals need to take off their rose colored glasses..."

    I am sticking with divisive but thanks

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:09 p.m.

    “Our goal is to create an environment where voting yes on a comprehensive debt deal is seen as good policy and safe politics,” - Jonathan Romano

    Safe politics? For whom? Certainly not for the American people.

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    Tolstoy...Really?

    I don't see anything divisive. Read my comment! That's divisive...

    What I read from peacemaker is a simple explanation of the consequences of redistribution, a foundational belief of Obama. You take something and give it to someone else, you create a nanny state, one where initiative is being taken away. People will lose faith in a government that is out to get them. It's simple math...

    Liberals need to take off their rose colored glasses...

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:34 p.m.

    @peacemaker
    what an ironic name for someone that chooses to be so divisive.

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:58 p.m.

    I just can't understand, no matter how I look at it, why our nation voted for Obama. This will go down as one of the worst elections for a president in our history. He has already failed our nation and it's people. The country has never been weaker in the world, we are more divided, there is more chaos, Washington has never been more corrupt, and it's going to get a lot worse. Our nation is in incredibly bad shape and the debt will continue to rise at an alarming rate. His leadership is non-existent and now we expect for something to change?

    As many have said, We The People voted for this man. Actions have consequences. Unfortunately many will suffer, including and especially the middle class.

    Luckily no matter who is president, each of us controls our own happiness. The president and congress can bring this nation to it's knees, but we will make it through this. I have no doubt about that.

    The one glimmer of hope I see is about 4 years away...

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:24 p.m.

    Want to cut the deficit? Go off the cliff. Yeah, it'll put us into another recession, but so would cutting the budget as deeply as Rs say they want to cut it. All the protestations about going off the cliff show me that Rs don't really give a hoot about the deficit. They just want to complain about Obama.

  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    "It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American descent into Marxism is happening with breathtaking speed, against the backdrop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people." Staislav Mishin from Pravda Ru English version.

    These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

    1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

    2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

    3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

    4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

    5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    Ok liberals, who blame all of this on Bush and Bush era policies. Tell us, what policies does Obama have that are any different?

    I hate to tell you this, but Obama's policies are the SAME as Bush's, except bigger and more expensive. So, if Bush was so evil and wrong for what he did, what does that make Obma for continuting those policies and making them bigger?

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:15 p.m.

    The politicians got their wish. They were able to campaign without being the villians who raised our taxes and cut our programs.
    Now they could care less.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:06 a.m.

    @Aggielove

    Explain to all of us why Jamie Dimon, who makes over $41 million a year and sends thousands of jobs overseas and build facilities to house them paid for from the profits of American consumers, deserves a tax break because he is rich. Jamie does not create jobs except for his maids and man servants. We are living above our means by excessive spending aimed at making politicians and their friends rich, and paying for freebies to encourage the poor vote for them. Obama once said he would tax the ultra rich and give substantial cuts to those who create jobs. But then his friends like Jamie must have got to him because for 4 years he has done nothing to tax the rich or to give cuts to those who create jobs. Neither party will touch taxes or spending. It's all talk talk talk, and more talk. Let's hear your solution.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:52 a.m.

    John Boehner is a politician. There are thousands of items on the plate that the House of Representatives can do. He is the leader that gets to choose. The House forwarded budgets to the Senate and the Senate chooses to not do anything. The President doesn't forward his own budget so what is the House to do, make their budget to comply with their part.

    The elected officials in the House of Representatives were voted there by the people in their districts of Republicans and Democrats. Since 2010 the House is in control of the process, thank goodness. The President wants to move on social issues instead of doing his mandate of budgets. He has promised he big Corporations such as GM, Chrysler and the Unions their billions upon billions of dollars and he got the Union support and vote.

    He left small businesses, the majority of businesses, with a potential burden with his Obamacare but doesn't come up with a budget that would show Obamacare is disasterous to our nation. It promises but doesn't deliver what they didn't read before they vote for Pelosi and Reid.

    We are Lemmings by the millions this winter.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    The fiscal cliff would cut the deficit in half. I thought you all cared about the deficit? Or is it that you only cared about the deficit when you thought that you wouldn't have to give up anything to help balance it? Fact is we have a 1.1 trillion dollar deficit for fiscal year 2012 which equates to around 3,500 from every single man, woman, and child in this nation. If you want a balanced budget... you're going to feel it.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:43 a.m.

    This current President ensured us he would do the job or not run. He didn't do either, do the job and not run. He ran that since he didn't get it done in four years that he would do it in the next four years. What a scam on the people in those big cities that won him the electoral vote. Since our electoral vote didn't count, now there are people that are trying to make more of our state a national monument to make money that will go to every other state and not just Utah.

    This President will ask for a different Secretary of the Treasury that couldn't do his job in the past 4 years along with the President and the Senate. The Senate voted the Obamacare process and not the budget they are mandated by law to do. The President got Harry Reid to subvert the process and let the government spend and spend. The President talks as if he has a budget.

    He feels he has a mandate to subscribe our great-great-great grandchildren to death with taxation without representation as they aren't even born,yet.

  • merich39 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    The blame for this fiscal mess lies squarely with us voters. Everyone wants to point blame at Obama. Or the GOP in Congress. Or the Dems in Congress. But ultimately, the blame lies with us voters.

    Congress' approval rating is somewhere south of 15%. And yet, we voters continue to elect the same special interest beholden fools to lead the nation. 15% approval rating but over 90% of those running for re-election win re-election. Utahns re-elect Orrin Hatch, who has been in Washington for 36 years over which time the budget deficit has ballooned. We buy the rhetoric that now, finally, he is going to be part of the solution. We Utahns love our reps but hope and pray Californians will vote out theirs. Meanwhile, Californians re-elect their reps while hoping Texans vote out theirs. Texans re-elect while hoping New Yorkers vote out theirs.

    People want to vote the bums out, but they just want it to be the other states voting out their bums. We want to cut the federal budget, but not Hill Air Force Base or any other budget that affects Utah or ourselves directly.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:04 a.m.

    Jumping off the cliff will be easy, and 536 people in Washington will blame the rest of them.

    The impact after jumping off the cliff will be horrific in many more ways than people can imagine.

    The ONLY solution it to get spending under control (meaning significantly less than our revenue, so we can begin to pay off the $16 Trillion in current debt). Until that is done any mention of raising taxes or revenues is like bailing out a sinking boat and ignoring the holes where the water is coming in.

    STOP THE SPENDING! NOW!

    Yes, it will hurt the poor, the rich,the middle class, the children, the elderly, the illegals, the legal immigrants, native born citizens, our pets, and our national credit. But, there is no other choice that will work.

    We can not spend ourselves out of debt, or wipe out dollars of debts with pennies of tax, even by confiscating every penny of wealth from the rich and the middle class.

    We need bold leaders, not hack politicians. Sadly, we have a congress filled with the latter, and a President who offers rhetoric and blame, but never a specific solution.

    Pray for our nation!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:04 a.m.

    Half a million dollars for every second of a year?

    Our sixteen trillion debt didn't just happen, --it was caused. It will soon increase again, until we're all subjected to political leaders.

    This is not about Democrats, and Republicans,--but corrupt leaders on both sides. We're starting to pay the price for allowing corruption, as has many civilizations past&present.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:02 a.m.

    Cincinnati man
    Im lead to believe your income is rather small.
    This is the reason you don't care about a tax increase.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:00 a.m.

    Blame bush.
    It makes a lefty smile.
    Cause it's easier than finding a reason to think that Obama made a difference.

  • Old Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:54 a.m.

    I'm just not sure that Obama really cares. He seems to hate rich people and rationalizes that he isn't one of them.

    We have no real leadership and have rejected a business minded leader in favor of a politician.

    Nice job America.

    Ask not what your Country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country?

    We all tasted the "fruit" of Obama and knew it wasn't good.

    Go back for 2nd's and 3rd's because now it is going to be force fed to us!

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    There is no elegant solution to spending more than you take in for decades at a time.
    Homes and families are ruined by doing so for only a couple of years.
    Why would government be any different?
    Those rare government shut-downs were just warnings that went unheeded. Now we will pay the fiddler.
    The business leaders on the radio are talking about just ignoring the problems for a few more years while the economy heals. If Washington can figure out how to do that, they will. Anything to avoid facing up to their foolishness all these years.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    The unfunded Mandates signed for by GW Bush include,
    2 Wars, unpaid for 2 trillion
    Medicaid part D, CBO says it will be 8 Trillion
    2 Stimulus packages, unpaid for
    700 Billion bank bailout

    Where were you fiscal hawks during those 8 years?

    Now you lose an election and you cry about it? Please, spare me. I was a Republican and when I asked how we were paying for all this I was told by other Republicans that I was unpatriotic. Well, shoe is on the other foot now you unpatriotic Republicans.

  • Pete1215 Lafayette, IN
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:50 a.m.

    A 1.4 trillion dollar defecit, and a possible 100 billion dollar spending cut. And people think this is draconian. Does Germany have any money left over from what it has loaned (donated) to Greece?

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:15 a.m.

    John Boehner, his party, and that other party refuse to solve anything about the economy. Wake up America. We sent in the clowns once again. I wonder if John Boehner could realize that he is perceived to be the monkey inside the cage, along with so many colleagues on both sides of the aisle. I'm tired of hearing about elimination of tax deductions, the flat tax, no tax increases for the rich, cut spending by one millionth of what needs to be cut (everywhere but where I want), and "we don't need no stinkin' budget", and freebies for the poor who could work but won't, and everything else that isn't going to solve the problems. The fact is that Washington is corrupt and is bankrupting this country with wild spending, out of control lifetime perks and benefits for those who claim to 'serve' this country in political office. We cannot afford them in their greed and self-serving arrogance.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:12 a.m.

    The press made such a big deal that electing Obama meant that people didn't care about the economy. So this is just a natural consequence of our national apathy. Bend over, America, cuz you voted for this...

  • My2Cents Taylorsville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:23 a.m.

    What seems to be eluding everyone is that the economy has already gone over the fiscal cliff in 2004 and has never recovered by any means. What we got in the crash of 2004 is still the sate of the nation and noon has figured it out yet. Everyone likes to pretend the recession is over but its just getting started and rowing stronger.

    Printing money, raising taxes, closing business, outsourcing our economy and jobs and firing workers was not the answer to improve an economy. In fact, all of the above is why we are in deep doo doo and not getting any better. Money still talks and grows stronger while exploiting and encouraging poverty as a way of life is not working either.

    We have no real leadership in the US, exploitation, greed, control, power is what has to be overcome. We are living the history of man and its decline as we live and surrender to lies and corruption being offered as replacement alternatives that have never worked in 10,000 years of domesticated humans.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:26 a.m.

    How long will the George Bush excuse work?