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Utah Utes football: Coach Kyle Whittingham says move to Pac-12 has 4-6 Utes in 'new world'

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  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 18, 2012 1:12 a.m.

    Not the right comments to make for Whittingham. Winning 10 games is one thing but losing to middle tier conference teams because you went to the freshman Wilson too early is another. At 0-2 in conference, the O line started to get it's act together and White IV was getting healthy, and boom, Whit gives up on Hayes and his senior leadership. Except for the play of Wilson, Utah played well enough to have had good chances to beat UCLA and Oregon State. At Washington, White IV had his 100 plus yards and Wilson did nothing to give Utah a chance. The Utah State game saw Utah trailing 13-0 to the Aggies when Wynn got hurt. Hays and the offense outscored Utah State 20-7 after that to go to overtime tied and 20. Utah then lost by an offensive pass interference call after the overtime tying TD. That was the game there.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 17, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    @sportsfan

    Get your facts straight. Google "final 2004 BCS rankings" and tell me where Texas A@M is listed. Also, as Max said; who won between Utah and BYU this year, and the year before, and the year before....

    I can't wait for your spin on that.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Nov. 17, 2012 4:50 a.m.

    From the comments here you would think that BYU and Utah didn't play this year and that there was some doubt about which team won.

  • Mark D LAS VEGAS, NV
    Nov. 17, 2012 12:30 a.m.

    Welcome to the Pac, Ute fans... As an ASU Alum, I can tell you just how hard it is to compile a "solid" season in this competitive league. You may have had some great years in the WAC/MWC in the past, even playing in and winning a BCS bowl or two, but playing in a BCS bowl game and playing in a BCS league are two VERY different things...

    To face BCS competition week in and week out, is very different from facing a BCS team in a BCS bowl and having a month to prepare for them. I have long respected the Utes, and wish them well - but this league will challenge you and take the best that you have to offer and ask for more...

    Settle in boys, this is going to be MUCH harder than you ever thought it would be...

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 11:41 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "You do realize Utah beat #19 Texas A&M don't you?"

    No, Utah beat UNRANKED Texas A&M.

    A Utah fan trying claim that Utah 2004 beat #19 Texas A&M, is like a BYU fan trying to claim that BYU 1984 beat #3 Pittsburgh.

    Texas A&M and Pittsburgh were both ranked at the beginning of the season. Neither was ranked at the end of the season.

    Utah 2004 didn't beat a single regular season opponent that finished with a record better than 7-5.
    BYU 2001 beat Utah(8-4) a team that beat USC in the Las Vegas Bowl.

    BYU 2001 lost to two teams that finished with 9-3 records.
    Utah 2004 didn't play a single team that finished with better than an 8-4 record.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 16, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    9-2-04 TEXAS A&M (Thur.) WON 41-21
    9-11-04 at Arizona WON 23-6
    9-18-04 at Utah State WON 48-6
    9-25-04 AIR FORCE WON 49-35
    10-1-04 at New Mexico (Fri.) WON 28-7
    10-16-04 NORTH CAROLINA WON 46-16
    10-23-04 UNLV WON 63-28
    10-30-04 at San Diego State WON 51-28
    11-6-04 COLORADO STATE WON 63-31
    11-13-04 at Wyoming WON 45-28
    11-20-04 BRIGHAM YOUNG WON 52-21
    FIESTA BOWL @Tempe, AZ
    1-1-05 vs. Pittsburgh WON 35-7

    Sorry, Utah doesn't have to appoligize for that run at all. Not one Bit!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 16, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    Rockwell

    You do realize Utah beat #19 Texas A&M don't you? A ton of other schools played similar, or weaker schedules that year, but didn't go undefeated. That's what got them the bid. I guess the were "Lucky" to win every game, right? Why the hate? They beat everyone they played against, something that only 2 other teams did that year. Only 6 teams had 1 loss or less. You can spin it any way you wany, but every other fan (who doesn't have the BYU bias in their head) knows that was a great and very deserving team. But keep telling your self other wise if it makes you feel better, the rest of us know the truth.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Utefan7

    "I'm still sitting here wondering when the next time I'm gonna be able to rush the field is."

    Next year, when Colorado visits RES is a good possibility, though not a given.

  • Utefan7 Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    all this talk is going on between you guys, and that's cute and all, but I could care less about what your all saying because I'm still sitting here wondering when the next time I'm gonna be able to rush the field is.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 16, 2012 8:05 a.m.

    Uteology

    BYU 2001
    Utah (8-4) W 24-21

    It's interesting that completely glossed over the fact that BYU 2001 was good enough to beat the 8-4 Utah team that beat USC in their bowl game, while Utah 2004 didn't beat ANY regular season opponents that finished with less than 5 losses.

    A win is a win; you don't have to "dominate" the other team in order to validate a win.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 16, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Based on the level of their competition, Utah wasn't legit, just lucky, that the rules were changed in 2004 to require the BCS to invite a team that hadn't beaten ANYBODY to their little dance. The majority of fans didn't even think that Pittsburgh, the team that Utah beat in the Fiesta Bowl, was BCS worthy.

    There's no possibility that an 8-3 team that was ranked #21 in the BCS and that finished in a 4-way tie for first in a 7-team conference would have been invited to a BCS bowl, if the Panthers hadn't been an automatic qualifier.

    The truth is, Utah was a very good team that dominated a bunch of very weak teams. Utah was the only decent team in the entire WAC in 2004.

    ---------

    Uteology

    Utah fans couldn't possibly understand the void left in an offensive by the loss of the nation's best running back, because the Utes have never, ever lost the nation's best anything in football.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:46 p.m.

    @ Uteology

    Amen Brother!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 6:19 p.m.

    @phoenix

    Utah didn't beat a single regular season opponent of any significance in 2004. In fact, unlike BYU 2001, Utah only beat three regular season opponents that finished with winning records and NONE of them won more than 7 games.

    ------------

    What, come again? Each team won 3 teams with winning records:

    BYU 2011:
    @ New Mexico (6-5) W 24-20
    @ Colorado State (7-5)W 56-34
    Utah (8-4) W 24-21

    Overall: 21-14

    Utah 2004:
    Texas A&M (7-5)W 41-21
    @New Mexico (7-5) W 28-7
    @Wyoming (7-5)W 45-28

    Overall: 21-15

    Again the difference?

    BYU struggled and was exposed as a 12-0 fraud, Utah was legit.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 15, 2012 5:57 p.m.

    Utah 24 Final
    BYU 21

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 5:54 p.m.

    @defective reasoning

    Same old tired argument by probably the same person.

    Again, even with your RB you still struggled to beat 4 lousy teams on the road all year (in Sept, Oct, and Nov). And even if you had your RB in the Hawaii game he wouldn't have prevented your sorry defense from being pasted for 72 points.

    Nice try.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 5:42 p.m.

    @anti BCS

    I answered your silly question, the 2004 team proved it on the field that they were "BCS worthy" in the postseason. Were they a "national championship worthy" team? Nope! We had a weak schedule compared to Auburn and USCheaters.

    The 2001 BYU team was not "BCS worthy", since they struggled against weak teams and were finally was exposed by Hawaii and Louisville.

    Since you asked the original question, time to back up your 1984 "national championship worthy" team.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 4:27 p.m.

    MLH

    I'm still waiting to hear the Ute 'true story'.

    gored

    Could you please begin to expound how pointing out that your team's dismal performance is hate?

    The Utes 'new world' is one of serfdom in the PAC12.

    I personally think its hilarious to have put up with you guys chest pounding and so called superiority smack for these three years and then to witness this train wreck.

    It's irony, it's classic tragedy, it's entertainment at its best. It's not hate.

    Win some games and change the 'stars'. But please don't expect those that you've been rubbing noses in 'it' for a few seasons to not take advantage of the change of the events.

    Quit whining. You're embarrassing your fan base.

    This is fun and you know you deserve every bit of it.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 15, 2012 4:22 p.m.

    Rockwell

    Of course they were BCS worty prior to the bowls. You do realize that only 3 teams finished undefeated that year, and only 3 had one loss don't you? Look at my post regarding other BCS teams that year, and the ranked teams they beat during the regular season. Going undefeated, for the most part, will earn you a BCS bid. Reference: Hawaii (didn't beat a ranked team), Boise State and TCU. I disagree with your comment that how they performed is irrelavent. Obvioulsy Hawaii wasn't worthy. Utah proved it's case in both BCS bowl games. A small little group of Bitter BYU fans are the only one's that I know, who would ever question Utah's merit in 2004 or 2008. Is it an inferiority complex, or just a hatred toward Utah? Maybe a combination of both, but pretty sad and pathetic in my book.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 15, 2012 3:58 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    How BCS bowl teams performed in their respective BCS bowl is irrelevant in this discussion.

    The issue isn't whether Utah proved they were BCS worthy by beating Pittsburgh, the issue is whether Utah beat anybody during the regular season, PRIOR to being selected as an at-large team, that proved that Utah deserved to be invited to a BCS game.

    Fortunately for Utah, the rules were changed for 2004, and Utah didn't have to worry about the BCS randomly deciding to invite a 10-2 SEC team instead of Utah.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Nov. 15, 2012 3:45 p.m.

    A little background on 12/8/2001 BYU @Hawaii

    The week of BYU's scheduled September 15th game at Mississippi State, a tragic event we refer to as "9/11" occurred. Because of 9/11, BYU's game with MSU was postponed until December 1st. Instead of having a week off before traveling to Hawaii, BYU was forced to travel to Starksville (1,700 miles) and back, arriving back in Provo early Sunday morning, then travel to Honolulu (3000 miles) 5 days later, a total of more than 6,000 miles traveled in less than a week.

    During their Saturday night game at MSU, BYU lost the nation's best running back to a career ending knee injury.

    On Monday, undefeated, 8th ranked BYU was informed by the BCS that BYU WOULD NOT BE INVITED to a BCS bowl, even if they destroyed 8-3 Hawaii and finished the regular season 13-0.

    Given the circumstances, it was remarkable that a tired, demoralized team, that was missing one of its key offensive players, was able to play as well as they did against a very skilled and motivated Hawaii team in an environment that was always tough, even under normal conditions.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 15, 2012 3:30 p.m.

    @ anti BCS

    Allow me to chime in here. Let's compare BCS teams in 2004 to see if Utah was BCS worthy, shall we? Let's list who other BCS bowl teams beat (ranked) during the season, and how they fared in there BCS bowl.

    Other BCS teams that year:
    Virginia Tech.: Beat #18 Virginia during the season, lost to #3 Aburn in bowl (1-1)
    Pitt: didn't beat a ranked team, lost to #6 Utah(0-1)
    Michigan: lost to #25 Michigan, beat #12 Iowa, lost to #4 Texas in bowl (1-2)
    LSU: lost to #3 Auburn, lost to #7 Georgia, lost to #12 Iowa in bowl (0-3)
    Utah: beat #20 Texas A&M, beat #21 Pitt in bowl (2-0)

    Was Utah BCS worthy? Of course, they beat everyone they played, the records above speak for them self. When BYU goes undefeated in the BCS era, maybe you can will under stand what it means to be "BCS worthy". Until then, just worry about beating Utah. That seems to be task enough.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 3:03 p.m.

    antiBCS, phoenix, duck, sammy, etc.

    Why all the hate? Again, coming from a fan base of an institution that claims to have a higher call, all articles on Utah athletics have been assaulted of late by BYU "fans".

    It only comes across as sour grapes. It is a fact that, since Utah beat BYU again, Utah fans have bragging rights. That's just the way it works. But some of you BYU "fans" don't seem to get that. And some of your comments are unbelievably ugly, with many more BYU "fans" trying to trash Utah than vice verse. Come on, guys, lighten up. You have next year to try to settle the score. Meanwhile, try eating a little humble pie.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 15, 2012 2:23 p.m.

    Uteology

    Sorry, it's not my turn until you answer the question:

    What regular season opponent did Utah beat that proved that the Utes were "bcs worthy"?

    (include name, record, and ranking)

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2012 2:19 p.m.

    Uteology

    It's ridiculous that you posted that the BCS decided BEFORE the BYU-Hawaii game that they weren't going to invite BYU to a BCS bowl, then you justify BYU not being invited BECAUSE they lost to Hawaii.

    Maybe you need a course in logic, because it appears you'll grasp at anything to justify your ill conceived argument.

    It's laughable that you continue to dodge the very simple question of providing the name of even one team on that illustrious list of Utah 2004 regular seaso opponents that proved that Utah was worthy of a bcs invite.

    Since you refuse to answer the question, for obvious reasons, I'll answer it for you.

    Utah didn't beat a single regular season opponent of any significance in 2004. In fact, unlike BYU 2001, Utah only beat three regular season opponents that finished with winning records and NONE of them won more than 7 games.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 1:56 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    EVERY rule change is precipitated by an event that triggers a discussion that leads to a rule change.

    ----------

    True but in 2001 a 12-0 BYU team getting spanked by:

    12/8 @Hawaii (9-3) 45-72

    triggered laughter that even made Duckhunter LOL, not BCS rule changes.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 1:49 p.m.

    @anti BCS

    btw, I noticed that you still haven't given us evidence that Utah beat a single regular season opponent in 2004 that made the Utes "BCS worthy".

    ------------

    We demolished everyone on our schedule and we proved that we were "BCS worthy" by destroying #18 Pitt 35-7 who was worthy enough to finish AP #25.

    Now your turn, can you please provide us with evidence that BYU beat a single team ALL YEAR in 1984 that made the Cougars "National Championship" worthy.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 1:42 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    "The difference was Utah rolled all over our opponents by 14+ points."

    LOL!

    out how uninformed you really are.

    The BCS computers aren't even allowed to consider margin of victory in their formulas for ranking teams.

    -------

    When, in 2001? Margin of victory was included in 2001 when BYU went 12-2 (see below).

    Regardless, I never said anything about margin of victory in computer rankings. I was talking about why an invitation wasn't given.

    You really think margin of victory doesn't influence the decision to invite BYU? I argue BYU struggling against horrible teams did influence the decision to give them a BCS invite.

    It;s hilarious that BYU fans would think that because they're team got exposed as being a 12-0 fraud that somehow that opened the doors for Utah/TCU/Boise.

    "Beginning in 2001, The Peter Wolfe and Wes Colley/Atlanta Journal-Constitution computer rankings were used in place of the NYT and Dunkel rankings. The change was made because the BCS wanted computer rankings that did not depend heavily on margin of victory... The BCS continued to purge ranking systems which included margin of victory, causing the removal of the Matthews and David Rothman (statistician) ratings before the 2002 season."

  • iNKSpot Wilsonville, OR
    Nov. 15, 2012 12:49 p.m.

    I'm still trying to figure out the benefit to the program of abandoning in-state rivalries, since both of those rivals are going to bowl games this year. Maybe it's all about the money.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 12:32 p.m.

    Truth

    I am a Ute fan also, Gary Anderson? Come on buddy, he has had 1 so-so year and one good one as a head coach. What and the heck would he do different than Coach Whit? If you understand college football you would understand what Utah is going through right now. Yes we would all like to see more wins but I promise you they are coming.

    We were not going to walk in and win right off the bat, our coaches need to learn to coach at a higher level, our players need to play at a higher level, and our fans need to know that we are no longer playing the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State. Gary Anderson would have to start at the same level, learn how to coach in the PAC12.

    Slow down a bit be a good Ute fan and let it happen, don't think someone else is going to come in here and change everything especially Gary Anderson. Maybe the likes of Urban Meyer but that's long gone. We have great coaches they too just need to learn and get better just like the players.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2012 11:50 a.m.

    utesnation

    Just remember one thing when you're fooling yourself into believing that one game proves "dominance."

    Colorado 17
    Utah 14

    btw

    Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    So much for proving Utah's "dominance" on a national scale, which is the only scale fans not living on the hill care about.

  • #utesnation Centerville, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 11:26 a.m.

    @ogmson

    You're kidding me right?? Calling byu a dominant program?? Remind me how you came to that conclusion? Just remember one thing when you're reminiscing over your "dominance."

    3 peat
    8 of the last 11

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 11:21 a.m.

    Papa Smurf UTE

    Big talk from a PAC 12 team that still hasn't beaten a conference foe with a winning record and couldn't even beat lowly 10-loss Colorado last season.

    Instead of worrying about BYU's lack of recent accomplishments, you should be more worried about Utah's continuing downward spiral since 2008. At your current pace, it'll only be a couple more years before Utah's football program descends below Utah's basketball program in ineptitude.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    Bleed Cougar Blue,

    The Utes must get lucky a lot then against the Y. I think that it is the other way around though. Since 193, and other than 96 when you beat us by 20, you are the lucky ones. 98, doink chip shot FG off the left upright. 2000, fumble by BYU on 3rd down, no replay, refs don't call it a fumble, Doman throws long pass on 4th down, BYU wins. Game should've been over due to the fumble. 01, Utes D stuffs the Y all day, up 21-10 with 5 min to play, then lose. Well all know 2006 on the last second pass. 2007 a 4th and 18 bomb when McCain, who is a NFL corner thinks Maxi got sacked, & turns his head. Then OT in 09 when our LB and safety run into one another. SO the Y is the lucky team. We could have 12 or so in a row. While our offense is not great, we would still beat you. We have the last 3 years with 3 different QBs playing at times for Utah, with no offensive game at all. Lucky huh, I would say it's just better.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    IRS Fraud,

    Where is the Y ranked this year? They are not. They played 4 decent to good teams this year, and lost them all. Is is a growing trend at the Y. Bronco knows that. There is one thing Bronco does well. He usually does not lose to the teams he should beat, but has only once beat a team no one thought that he would win. It's amazing to me how delusional Y fans can be. They think since they end the year on a winning streak against poor cempetition, then start the fall with a win, before they lose to the good teams that they are continuing to get better. Face it, you aren't. Next year you will be lucky to make it to 7-5 or even 7-6 if Holmoe takes the 13th game for playing Hawaii in Hawaii. You still have 6 patsies on there that you will win, and then have probably 1 more win in there against an average team. Your exposure may be good, but when you don't win, it doesn't matter.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 15, 2012 8:18 a.m.

    Uteology

    It's laughable how you completely omitted BYU's dominating wins from 2001, while pretending that every Utah win in 2004 was dominating, even though you know for a fact that wasn't the case.

    btw, I noticed that you still haven't given us evidence that Utah beat a single regular season opponent in 2004 that made the Utes "BCS worthy".

    Don't just give us names, give us records and rankings, just like you nit pik EVERY BYU opponent.

    *crickets*

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2012 8:07 a.m.

    Uteology

    "The difference was Utah rolled all over our opponents by 14+ points."

    LOL!

    out how uninformed you really are.

    The BCS computers aren't even allowed to consider margin of victory in their formulas for ranking teams.

    You obviously don't understand cause and effect relationshps.

    EVERY rule change is precipitated by an event that triggers a discussion that leads to a rule change.

    The BCS deciding, while BYU was still 12-0 and ranked in the Top 10, that BYU would not be invited to a BCS bowl, REGARDLESS of whether BYU beat Hawaii, or not, triggered the discussion of how unfair the BCS was in excluding non-AQ teams from BCS bowls, which lead to the rule change REQUIRING the BCS to invite the highest ranked non-AQ team to a BCS bowl, starting in 2004.

    Without that rule change, the BCS could have invited ANY at-large team that the BCS wanted to, instead of Utah, leaving Utah 2004 in the exact same position BYU 2001 was in prior to the Hawaii game, undefeated and uninvited.

    Without BYU 2001, Utah 2004 could very easily have ended up playing in another minor bowl.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 8:07 a.m.

    @uteology

    Your quotes from Mitch Light and Ted Miller were pre-season quotes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say neither of them believe that any longer and they will not be making similar comments next year. Perspective comes from what actually occurs, their perspective has definately changed and the truth is your has to, you know they were wrong, you even admit it in some of your posts here and on the Trib. Funny how you're trying to argue differently now.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:04 p.m.

    midpacmajor
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    Utelogy

    Utah 2004's schedule and record was no better than BYU 2001's schedule and record prior to the BYU-Hawaii game...

    ------------

    The difference was Utah rolled all over our opponents by 14+ points.

    While BYU before being exposed by Hawaii struggled against:

    Nevada-Las Vegas (4-7) W 35-31
    New Mexico (6-5) W 24-21
    Wyoming (2-9) W41-34
    Utah (8-4) W 24-21
    Mississippi State (3-8)W 41-38

    That's why they said no, your a weak team. Hawaii and Louisville just proved it.

    BYU did nothing to open the doors for non-AQ teams. Your not even relevant in that discussion.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:41 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    You missed the point. What the BCS poll showed was when that taking everything into consideration, including computer rankings, Utah and Oregon State were indeed "close":

    #18 OSU 8-2

    vs

    #19 Utah 10-2

    midpacmajor
    What happened at the end of season? Both teams dropped out of the top 25 after losing big.

    Feel free to call Utah mediocre and Oregon State a great team and a huge win for BYU.

    That fact still remains the ONLY two final ranked teams BYU has beat since 1996 are #18 Utah (2009) and #20 TCU (2006).

    @midpacmajor

    That's not proof its your opinion based on fantasy. Please cite the source showing rule changes to the BCS system because of what BYU did. The rules only changed after what Utah/Boise/TCU did, while BYU in 2001 and Hawaii 2007 Sugar Bowl proved the critics were right.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:20 p.m.

    BYU fan delusion makes me laugh every time. News flash, the Utes own your team on the field of play, where it counts. Enjoy being in the ranks of independents with New Mexico State and Idaho; now that's cachet.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:01 p.m.

    A Utah article with:
    1 comment from TCU fan
    27 comments from U fan
    40 comments from Y fan

    Looks like many closet U fans are coming out tonight. You know what they say, "If you can't beat em join em"

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:28 p.m.

    Utelogy

    Utah 2004's schedule and record was no better than BYU 2001's schedule and record prior to the BYU-Hawaii game, yet the BCS had already decided PRIOR to the game, according to your own post, that BYU WOULD NOT BE INVITED to a BCS bowl, regardless of whether BYU beat 8-3 Hawaii or not, PROOF that in 2001 there was no BCS rule to compell the BCS to invite any team outside of their tight little circle of automatic qualifiers, and also PROOF, that the BCS rules did change prior to 2004 to compell the BCS to invite the highest ranked non-AQ team.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:02 p.m.

    It's funny how the utes go to the PAC, then their fans comment on a tough schedule, then complain of BYU playing cupcakes.

    Go figure.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:58 p.m.

    Uteology

    The BCS ranking is ONLY used to determine teams invited to the BCS bowls and championship. There is no final BCS ranking after the bowls.

    It's completely irrelevant as far as final AP and Coaches Poll rankings.

    In 2009, OSU was ranked #16 AP and #15 Coaches before the Las Vegas Bowl.
    In 2010, Utah was ranked #19 AP and #19 Coaches before the Las Vegas Bowl.

    Like I said, not even close. Teams don't drop 10 places or more because of a single loss, unless that loss was an absolute beat down.

    Utah only dropped four places in the Coaches poll and only six places in the AP poll after losing to Boise State.

    Oregon State dropped over 10 places in each after losing to BYU, the difference between being ranked and being unranked.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:32 p.m.

    phoenix
    Gilbert, AZ

    "A 12-0 record, a conference championship, and the nation's highest-scoring offense were not enough for BYU, which was officially eliminated from BCS consideration on Monday..."

    is one of the main reasons Utah was able to bust the bcs in 2004.

    If not for BYU 1996 and BYU 2001, the rules that allowed the Utes to bust the bcs in 2004 would not have existed.

    ------------

    LOL

    Getting a whopping at Hawaii and being embarrassed by Louisville to finish 12-2 didn't open the doors for Utah/TCU/Boise. It just proved BCS committee was correct in not inviting a weak 12-0 BYU team.

    Prove it that the BCS rules changed in 2001 to make it more exclusive for non-BCS teams. In 1996 there was no BCS.

    Here's what I found how BYU contributed.

    Other teams have won the national championship despite playing presumably weaker schedules than other championship contenders. The BYU Cougars [in 1984]... To address these problems, five conferences, six bowl games, and leading independent Notre Dame joined forces to create the Bowl Coalition, which was intended to force a de facto "national championship game" between the top two teams.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:30 p.m.

    Let's play the Utes again in the Poinsetta Bowl.

    My money says we'd beat them.

    Badly.

    (Yeah, I know the bowl contracts aren't set up that way, but I just wanted to say that if we played the Utes again, they'd lose. They got LUCKY the first time. They wouldn't be lucky again the second.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:28 p.m.

    As a ute fan I am going bowling again this year just like I did in the 70's....But since Ritz Classic is gone...I think I will give Orchard lanes a try! SOS is mute when you dont win.....beating WSU and losing to USC UCLA Washington ASU, it doesn't matter how strong your schedule is? There is no pride in being the biggest loser in a strong schedule.....Time for a change in Uteville? Yes, Put in a call to Gary Anderson!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:18 p.m.

    Snack PAC

    Utah wasn't even close to #16 when the Utes were blown out by Boise State.

    ----------

    Rather then to just take your word for it, I did some research.

    Not even close? According to final regular season AP polls:

    Utah was ranked #19 10-2 (BCS #19).
    Oregon Stat was #16 8-4 (BCS #18).

    So according to the BCS they were close.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:08 p.m.

    If anybody can get done, it is Whittingham. However, I think the youngest offensive coordinator in the country is proving to be too easy for those experienced PAC 12 defensive coordinators. A change there may be in order.

  • bano SANDY, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:57 p.m.

    The Utes schedule is ranked 11 by Sagerin. byu fan, if you are going to come on here try not to blatently lie about facts. Another fact, 3 straight wins and 8 out of 11.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:15 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    You don't like the Utah 2010 Vegas example. Then how about #19/#20 Pitt in 2004 getting pounded by Utah in the Fiesta Bowl and dropping out of the Coaches poll. BYU fans have been arguing for years that the Pitt team was mediocre.

    The ESPN quote was from 12/7/2011 during last years postseason before the win over Georgia Tech.

    They probably would say Utah underperformed but it's not unexpected for a team that starts 3 QBs in one year. The original assumption was Wynn would be in 2009 form. Others had Utah at 8-4 this year, I think everyone underestimated the learning curve for Brian Johnson and how good UCLA, Oregon State, and Arizona would be.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:53 p.m.

    Go Red

    You are spot on. Hopefully, this band of followers are not true BYU fans. The BYU fans I talk to face to face are very cordial, knowlege-able and true fans; not Utah Haters.

    @ Hemlock

    No, there's a difference between stating your opinion, in a constructive manner; than continuely and constantly be-littling a program. Constantly spinning and spewing statistics in comparison to Utah. To basically getting enjoyment out of a team having a rough year.

    Utah is having a rough year. After so much sucsess, and bowl win, after bowl win this year is tough to swallow. Any time a team costantly under achieves, and doesn't play to it's potential; its tough. With that I'm hoping for 6-6 and a bowl win.

    GO UTES >---->

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:42 p.m.

    It seems that if you don't slobber all over yourselves with praise for the Utes, you are a Utah hater.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    phoenix, worf, midpac, duck---Why all the hate? You know what's interesting to me is the vitriol that comes out regularly from jealous BYU fans like you. No other fan base has rivals that are so ugly. Not UCLA vs. USC, not Oregon vs. Oregon State, not Arizona vs. Arizona State. And it seems to be getting very one sided lately by a handful of extremely bitter BYU fans commenting on every sports-related article on the Utes. You don't see nearly the same garbage dished out against BYU by U fans. Check the recent articles and read the corresponding comment sections.

    I agree with Wookie as he says "I do not believe you are a Y fan as you do not represent that school or its faith." You can see why an outsider would have a very hard time with your school, at least as represented by those who regularly comment here.

  • ATiredDude Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:55 p.m.

    @IRS Agent:

    What reason other than jealousy is there for whY? fans to comment on a Utah article? Sour grapes?

    I don't claim Chris B. as one of ours. There are some lost souls out there. But he does have one thing your fanbase doesn't; his favorite team is the winning team 8 of the last 11 years.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:35 p.m.

    Uteology

    Utah wasn't even close to #16 when the Utes were blown out by Boise State.

    Of course, you chose to omit that little detail,
    nor did you mention that Oregon State barely missed playing in the Rose Bowl in 2009.

    It's funny that you're using pre-season quotes from this year, when the Utes were the talk of the town and were going to be the main PAC south challengers to national championship favorite USC.

    Obviously, pre-season opinions and projections don't always turn out as expected.

    It would be interesting to see what Mitch Light and Ted Miller think about the Utes now.

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:29 p.m.

    @PapaSmelf

    Why not leave the relevence arguement up to those who make a career out of college football - the coaches. Where were the Utes ranked at the end of last season by the coaches? How about the Cougars? What about this season? I think the coaches know a lot more about what a quality football team looks like than a bunch of armchair bench warmers. I don't think that the Notre Dame coach would have made the comments he did after the BYU game, if he didn't have respect for their play. With all the other schools they have played this year, he didn't have as much praise for any of them than he did for BYU.

    Out of curiousity, where exactly are the Utes ranked in the polls this year?

  • jpjazz Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:18 p.m.

    I predict the Utes will won out. But when will they become competitive and challenge for a Pac 12 Title? That looks to be a long way in the the future, probably after a coaching change and many years to come.

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:18 p.m.

    @TiredDude

    Please share your lecture with Chris B.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:11 p.m.

    @phoenix

    The reality is, the MWC, WAC, Sun Belt, Conference USA, and Big East ALL have better access than Utah.

    -------------

    That's not reality that's just fantasy in your head. Anyone that argues TCU in the Big 12 and Utah in the PAC-12 have less access to BCS and playoffs just doesn't understand college football.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    phoenix

    "The reality is, the MWC, WAC, Sun Belt, Conference USA, and Big East ALL have better access than Utah."

    Sorry, I have to disagree. Utah should have slightly better access than the WAC.

    smurf

    Hope that helps you sleep at night.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:02 p.m.

    @TheSportsAuthority

    You keep hanging on to that Oregon State (8-5) beatdown as a significant win. Utah (10-3) in 2010 also dropped out of the AP top 25 when they were beat down by Boise in Vegas. Yet you posted they were a mediocre team, which I actually agreed with you.

    It wasn't Utah fans and it wasn't just because of the close win at USC:

    "Utah has accomplished something that is difficult to do in the world of collegiate sports - make a significant climb up the food chain... There isn't a huge sample size yet, but Utah proved last season that it can be relevant in the Pac-12, even in a season in which it suffered significant injuries. The program has a highly respected coach in Kyle Whittingham who has proven that he has a program that can compete on a national level." -- Mitch Light (Athlon Sports)

    "Still, the initial verdict is fairly positive. While the grind of Pac-12 play is far different than the Mountain West Conference, it's clear that Utah can compete in the Pac-12. They figure to be a long-term fixture in the South Division race." --Ted Miller (ESPN)

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:47 p.m.

    "A 12-0 record, a conference championship, and the nation's highest-scoring offense were not enough for BYU, which was officially eliminated from BCS consideration on Monday..."

    is one of the main reasons Utah was able to bust the bcs in 2004.

    If not for BYU 1996 and BYU 2001, the rules that allowed the Utes to bust the bcs in 2004 would not have existed.

    Not even the idiots who run the bcs would be stupid enough to deny an undefeated or 1-loss Top 10-ranked BYU team a spot in a bcs bowl, especially if that team was ranked higher than a champion from any of the automatic qualifying conferences.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:30 p.m.

    Smurf

    "Enjoy all that amazing exposure as an irrelevent. It came out on Monday that even the MWC, WAC, Sun Belt, and Conf USA even has more access to the new BCS or whatever they will call it than you do."

    The reality is, the MWC, WAC, Sun Belt, Conference USA, and Big East ALL have better access than Utah. At least one team from one of those conferences is GUARANTEED to be included in one of the BCS bowls every year.

    There's no guarantee that Utah will ever be included in one of those bowls.

    The Rose Bowl is reserved for the big boys of the PAC 12, and U aren't one of them.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:20 p.m.

    Papa Smurf UTE

    Actually, BYU destroyed then #16 Oregon State in the 2009 Las Vegas Bowl so badly, that it knocked the Beavers completely out of the rankings. If BYU hadn't beaten OSU so badly, the Cougars would have had a win over a ranked, "nationally relevant" PAC 12 opponent.

    It's laughable how Utah fans were claiming just a year ago that coming close to beating USC at USC last year proved that the Utes were "competitive", but now those same Utah homers are arguing that BYU only losing by 3 at #3-ranked Notre Dame doesn't prove anything.

    The inconsistency of Utah fans is hilarious.

    Don't kid yourself about no one caring about BYU. The kids on the hill are obsessed with BYU.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:57 p.m.

    Don't worry about the tough times, Utes, for as Chris B. pointed out you have two BCS wins! (Insert laughter here.)

    So let's see: Heisman Trophy Winners - 0. National Championships - 0. MWC Championships and WAC Championships - very few. Amount of time to garner 10 PAC 12 Conference wins---at this point, at least three seasons. (After the next two weeks, maybe 4, but that is speculation while requiring 3 seasons is a current fact.)

    So what exactly does Utah have to brag about, other than two BCS wins? Can anyone say who else won BCS games those same years and were there any repeats other than the Utes? I think not, because BCS wins aren't that important after a year or so. Sorry, Utes, that's a fact too.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:54 p.m.

    Lonestarrunner,

    You do realize that the Y has not competed with the big boys since 1996. You have 1 so called good win since then. That was against OU and they turned out to be a fraud. Just like Pitt did in 84. While only losing to Notre Dame by 3 is a moral victory for you fans, and think that you can compere with anyone in the country, you can't. You have lost every game against a nationaly relevent team, other than OU since, well, 1996. Your best win since that OU win was against the Utes in 2009 in OT. Other than that, you have lost all the games vs good teams. Even in the UTES so called "down years" you still cannot beat us, and got run off your home field in 2011. Enjoy all that amazing exposure as an irrelevent. It came out on Monday that even the MWC, WAC, Sun Belt, and Conf USA even has more access to the new BCS or whatever they will call it than you do. That is your new sad reality. You aren't the Notre Dame of the west, & no one really cares about you, other than you.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:48 p.m.

    PAC man

    Whether you use Sagarin or RealTimeRPI, the obvious conclusion is WINNING is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, than SOS. You can whine and make excuses for losing, but bottom line, NOBODY cares how difficult your SOS is if you don't WIN!

    --------------

    It seems nobody cares if you beat a bunch of cupcakes either:

    "Officials from the Bowl Championship Series didn't even wait long enough to see if BYU could finish the regular-season [2001] with an undefeated record to decide the Cougars' BCS fate.

    Access denied.

    A 12-0 record, a conference championship, and the nation's highest-scoring offense were not enough for BYU, which was officially eliminated from BCS consideration on Monday."

    -- Jeff Call

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:39 p.m.

    @worf

    If the utes had gone independent, they would be financially drowning. They depended on BYU TV revenue during the WAC, and MWC years, and now the PAC. without entitlements, their sports program would foreclosed, and Chris B would be a Weber State fan.

    -------------

    Please call us when/if someone offers you $20-$30 million to join a prestigious organization and you turn it down because you don't want "entitlements".

    Also tell us when you refuse to accept your tax exempt entitlement status.

    Notre Dame just joined the ACC for all sports and 7 games in football. When Idaho and New Mexico State joins you as an independent and not USC and Texas, which also has it's own network, you should be able to read the writing on the wall.

    @LonestarRunner: "Despite the obvious weaklings on their schedule, BYU has shown that they can compete with the big boys."

    How so? You've won 5-14 vs good teams in 3 years (USU twice, Tulsa, Washington, SDSU--4 wins at LES). Bronco is 12-13 vs BCS teams.

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:35 p.m.

    BYU would handle life in any conference, the difference would be that if BYU were in a conference pretty much all LDS players would be going there instead of most. We are a couple of plays from being in the top 10. We will get back there. As for Utah, I wish you all the best of luck on your endeavors in the Pac 12. I must admit, however, it was fun to watch you get beat by a former BYU quarterback last week in Washington! Sark is awesome!

  • ATiredDude Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:31 p.m.

    And once again, the majority of comments are by haters. Proving that jealousy isn't an honor code violation; it's a way of life!

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:57 p.m.

    Reasonable question for reasonable Utah fans (and they are there, despite some of the Ute and Cougar KOOKs):

    It wasn't too long ago that getting a ticket for a BYU-Utah game was not hard...other games very easy. Many empty seats at RES. Right now the MU...sorry, don't recall the acronym for the very vocal student section (kudos) is strong.

    Are you concerned that should you have a few more consecutive years of not going to a bowl game that the numbers will return to less than 40k? At least BYU had built up a loyal fan base for a couple of Lavell decades that not even the Crowton debacles diminished the crowds to less than 56k. And even a lousy night came against Idaho still drew a decent crowd. But do you think the fair-weather nature of Utah fans in the McBride and pre-McBride eras will be the norm or has Utah solidified its fan base to where they'll pack the stadium even with teams with losing records? Of course watching Utah v. USC is a whole lot more interesting than Utah v. New Mexico.

    Just wanted your point of view.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:57 p.m.

    MLH

    Two great seasons does not a great program make.
    and
    One game does not a season make.

    Too many Utah fans assumed that with the fortunate circumstances that made the Utes the first "bcs busters" in 2004, their perfect storm season of 2008, and their PAC 12 invite, that Utah had achieved greatness and was now an elite program.

    Utah fans boasted that the Utes were going to be one of the best teams in the PAC 12 and that regular conference championships, Rose Bowl appearances, and national championship run were just ahead.

    Unfortunately for U, simply being invited to associate with great teams does not make you great, as any perennial power conference bottom dweller will tell you.

    Now that their arrogance has been proven to be nothing but a bunch of hot air, Utah fans are lashing out at BYU fans for simply reminding the Utes of what many BYU fans were predicting would happen before Utah had ever played a game in their new conference.

    Instead of the petty jealousy that many Utah fans characterized those predictions to be, they're now proving to be a bitter dose of reality for the crimson glasses wearers.

  • Alpine Coug Alpine, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:52 p.m.

    Granted, Utah received an instant SOS improvedment by joining the PAC-10.

    But, even you die-hard BYU haters have to admit that BYU's future independent schedules will propel them into BCS (or successor) credibility. With five BCS opponents this year (Notre Dame, Utah, Oregon State, Georgia Tech, and Washington State) and another six-seven and more in the next several seasons to include Texas, Notre Dame, Boise State, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Utah, Wisconsin, and Houston in 2013, you can not even begin to argue that this is not the equal or greater of Utah's PAC-10 schedule in 2013.

    Even in their BCS hey-days, Boise State, Utah, and TCU never played more that one or two BCS regular season opponents at most.

    Just as it is taking Utah a couple of years to adjust, it is taking BYU that long as well to improve it talent and competitive level of play.

    Personally hope both the Utes and the Cougs soon evolve into regular power houses and perennial Top 20 programs

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:03 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    I applaud you for your 9:25 a.m. post. I believe your assessment of Utah's and BYU's current situations is accurate. And while I believe that conference membership is a better option, I repect that you have been consistent in favoring independence for BYU.

    -----------------

    Any Utah fan that thought that the move to the Pac-12 wouldn't be difficult for the Utes just hasn't been paying attention, or underappreciated how much more talented/athletic/well coached/well prepared the Pac 10 schools were than the MWC/WAC teams. Unbiased media/experts/fans and computer algorthims have suggested that forever, but many of us convinced ourselves and others that their claims were founded only on bias and tradition. The objective evidence says they were closer to right than many of us were.

    Projecting how Utah will fare long term in the Pac-12 by how they do in their first two years in the conference isn't a good idea. Evaluating how comptetitive Utah is in year 5 will likely have more meaning. I have said that in these comments before, but I have to admit, I thought Utah would win more games this year....

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    I could have been more sympathetic to Utah's plight if so many Ute fans had not been are still are so arrogant. It's great that you got invited to the PAC but any reasonable person knew that there would be growing pains. The childishness of many of your fans pleases many that you are getting your comeuppance in such a big and universal way.

    You may never be more than a Wassu, buff or UA in that league. Your current trend is not encouraging.

  • plyxply SLC, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    The fact that Utah is a bottom level PAC 12 team hasn't changed their philosophy in recruiting. They still think they can force kids to commit by giving them ultimatum's and telling them they'll pull their scholarship offer if they don't commit in a week.
    They lost the best receiver in the state to UCLA by doing this, they need to look up and see they aren't as great a destination for recruits as they seem to think they are.

  • ogmson Mapleton, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:01 a.m.

    Wonder when Jake Murphy is going to realize the mistake he made in going to uteville rather than a winning, dominant program in Provo?

    No, I don't wish the Utes good luck. Go Sun Devils!! Go Wildcats!

    I hope they have a losing season every year. After all, the best days in the Fall season is when BYU wins and the Utes lose.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:37 a.m.

    PAC man

    NOBODY cares how difficult your SOS is if you don't WIN!

    You must or why would you be looking up all these numbers, these numbers are for true computer geeks like yourself. A computer doesn't need to tell me that UCLA is better than Hawaii, that USC is better than Utah State, that Oregon State is better than Weber, and so on. I will totally agree with you that winning is so much more important but you always make it sound that the y is winning at the same level.

    Both sides need to step back and take a deep breath, niether team is that good right now. But my Utes are in a "different world" and the majority of us Utah fans don't like the loosing but we do understand it. It's going to take awhile, I'm old enough to remember when all a team had to do is walk on the field and they beat Oreagon.

    And you Utah State fans 1 good season in 30 years, SO WHAT. One win over Utah in 20 years, SO WHAT. Come back down to earth.

  • RichDaddy Lewis Center, OH
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:36 a.m.

    When the Pac-12 move possibility was first announced, I really didn't think this Pac-12 thing was going to work out for Utah. Time is proving me right. The only non- California team to have consistant success has been Oregon and they have Phil Knight pouring millions into the program.

    Arizona and Arizona State joined the Pac-10 in 1978. Since then ASU has been to the Rose Bowl just twice and UA not at all. At best you can hope to be an OSU, Cal or UW caliber program and get to 9-3 once every four or five years. Over the next decade you can expect a 7-5 average team.

    Mark it down ChrisB.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    @ PAC man

    I don't recall whining or making excuses for Utah's season, just pointed out where there strength of schedule was rated #11. Of course I would rather have more wins, than a highly ranked schedule. Actually, I would prefer a combination of both. Considering who Utah has played, I would be pleased if Utah was 8-4 or 9-3. They just haven't executed; which has let three very win-able games: Utah State, Oregon State and UCLA slip away. And yes, the computer rankings are all over the place. The RPI rankings seem very odd to me. Take for instance Washington. They are ranked #37, yet #25 per BCS. The RPI has Kentucky playing a tougher schedule. As I compare the RPI to Saragin, Saragin looks more accurate; at least to me.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:18 a.m.

    Lonestar

    You can pretend that there's no such thing as a moral victory, but the truth is, sportswriters, coaches and fans across the country notice when a team like BYU takes the #3-ranked Fighting Irish to the wire on their home field.

    Typical byu fan

    Ufan

    Think it might be time for you to change to blue-byu has beat'n Weber State, Washington State, Hawaii, Georgia Tech, Idaho, Utah State---WOW switch on over they need you more than we do.

    Sooner Ute

    These byu homers, and Ute haters pop off and have no idea what it is like to be in a top 5 conference. Just for pits and giggles it sure would be fun to see them play a BIG12, PAC12, BIG10 schedule and see what they have to say about that. They played 4 tough teams this year and lost to all 4. But then again these coug fans get to see the likes of Hawaii, and Idaho oooooooo just makes me shiver.

    NO comparison cougar fans and remember BYU CANNOT BEAT UTAH, so use all those other teams to get your points across.

    Love being in the PAC12, frustrating but so much fun

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:00 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Whether you use Sagarin or RealTimeRPI, the obvious conclusion is WINNING is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, than SOS. You can whine and make excuses for losing, but bottom line, NOBODY cares how difficult your SOS is if you don't WIN!

    Sagarin
    #24 USU - SOS #83
    #25 BYU - SOS #51
    #38 Utah - SOS #11

    RealTimeRPI
    #29 USU - SOS #182
    #51 BYU - SOS #130
    #79 Utah - SOS #49

    ---------

    On a related topic,

    I find it interesting the Florida State's new head coach would rather see the computer rankings completely eliminated and return to the pre-BCS system of having the human polls decide the national champion. It's obvious that the computers are programmed with a built-in bias for certain conferences - looking at you SEC.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    @ Duckhunter.

    There is no personal shot at you my friend, as you clearly denote, the truth is hard for some to hear. I have no problem understanding and agreeing with some of your salient points as they pertain the the Utes inability to compete, but your contention, that is not welcome or wanted on here. As I've said previously, you do not represent the Y or its faith, thus I wonder what you do represent other than anger and contention.

    I appreciated your honest assessment of both the Y and U in their respective conferences, as the U is clearly struggling. As for the Y, well that is an unknown, but given their lack of credibility with an OC (similar to the U), we are in similar situations.

    Duckhunter, I only ask that you stop trolling and spreading your contention. There is no need. Honestly and truth are not what you sow on here.

    Go Utes!!

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    @RValens

    Enjoy your "bigger cut" of pie, it still doesn't win games. If it is about getting more money, then the Utes are the big winners. The problem is, most fans don't care about the balace in the checking account. They care about the W's. You can build a nice new stadium, but if you don't win games, you new house will be pretty empty.

    By the way, how is that big pie working out for the basketball team, and other sports? The Utes were right where they belonged - an occasional contender in a rising midlevel conference. Those years in the MWC will be looked back on fondly as the "glory years" of Ute athletics. They should have tried to make them last as long as they could.

    Dr. Hill, You let the wrong coach leave. You should have kept Anderson.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:37 a.m.

    @wookie

    What did I say that was not the truth? Attempting to exagerate utah's past does not lend credibility to anything whittingham is saying. You may not like the truth, obviously you do not as you called the truth "contentious", but it is still the TRUTH. Trying to pretend you are something you are not, and never have been, is going to elicit repsonses setting the record straight. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings to know the truth.

    As far as your personal shot at me? Well I couldn't care less. Carry on.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:36 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    Stop projecting.

    The fact that U can't handle life in a power conference doesn't prove anything about BYU's ability to be competitive in a power conference.

    U were never competitive in the WAC and only marginally better in the MWC.

    WAC Conference Titles
    BYU 19
    Utah 2

    MWC Conference Titles
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    Just like he never lost to Colorado State, New Mexico, Wyoming and New Mexico, Bronco wouldn't have lost to Colorado last season.

  • BigUtahFan BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:33 a.m.

    A lot of negative comments coming from non-Utah fans. They are just so happy to see Utah struggle the first 2 years in the PAC12. Utah doesn't have a good QB. Everyone banked on Jwynn coming back strong. That failed and Utah had to pick up the pieces from there.

    Wilson is the future. He's been able to get valuable experience this year that will pay off next year. Utah can't expect to win without a talented QB. Right now Utah has 2 QB's committed that will help this cause.

    Even with a 4-6 record I am still excited about the game on Saturday. Every week is a good opponent. I'll gladly take Utah struggling in the PAC12 than being stuck in the MWC or Independent.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    @soonerute

    If BYU had an invitation to a BCS conference, other than the big east, you might have a point. But since they have not been invited to any bcs conference, except the big east, then your "point" is moot.

    For the record I think BYU would probably be doing fairly comparable to what utah is doing if BYU was in the pac12, and maybe even worse if they were in the big12 which is a better conference than the pac12. They would probably be struggling to maintain .500, beating the weak teams, losing to the good teams, and flipping a coin with the middle teams. Sound familiar?

    That said I am now, and have always been, in favor of BYU maintaining independence. I've wanted it for two decades and since BYU has finally taken that step I much prefer that they stay there, at least for several years, even if one of those conferences did come calling. That probably puts me in the minority of BYU fans but that is what I want and like. And yes BYU's future schedules are shaping up to be plenty comparable to utah's pac12 schedules. Both teams need to win.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    Nun

    "Needing only to "get up" for 4 games per year, and then losing all of them, is not a recipe for national credibility, even if the games are on ESPN."

    Sorry to burst your delusional crimson bubble, but BYU is gaining plenty of national credibility, as are other teams who are playing well, even in losing efforts, against good competition. You can pretend that there's no such thing as a moral victory, but the truth is, sportswriters, coaches and fans across the country notice when a team like BYU takes the #3-ranked Fighting Irish to the wire on their home field.

    Despite the obvious weaklings on their schedule, BYU has shown that they can compete with the big boys, and the national rankings reflect the respect garnered from that competitiveness.

    Sagarin:

    #24 Utah State
    #25 BYU
    #33 San Jose State
    #38 Utah

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Utah's struggles in the PAC12 and TCU's struggles in the Big 12 have moved Cougar fans to finally accept independence. Last year, there were cries of "we need to be in a conference". Now, Tom Holmoe looks like a genius for realizing early on that BYU couldn't handle life in a BCS conference.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    It's laughable that my fellow Utah fans are so touchy about BYU fans simply stating the obvious.

    Utah fans were bragging only 3 months ago during fall camp in August, that the Utes were already good enough to challenge USC for the PAC south, THIS SEASON.

    Now that we've fallen on our faces, again, and have proven that we're not even close to being competitive with the big boys of the conference, our feable attempts at revisionist history are embarrassing.

    The PAC 12 is a quarterback-driven league and Whittingham has been a miserable failure at recruiting good quarterbacks. How else do you explain having to rely on a D-II transfer in our first two seasons in the league?

    It's nice to rub shoulders with the big boys, but it's no shame to admit that we're in over our heads and will never be anything more than a middle of the PAC team, even in our best years.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:01 a.m.

    @ChrisB, why do you have to drag BYU and USU into every comment you make?

    Utah has run into a tough stretch and it's going to be more than 2 years to get out of it. The biggest problem they'll have is on offense, with no decent QB they'll need time to groom one, which will take time. They'll get better but I doubt they'll ever be able to recruit well enough to compete consistently against the big boys of the PAC

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:59 a.m.

    "Winning 10 games like clockwork in the Mountain West, I mean, that was then and this is now.” said whittingham.

    I hate to be the guy that points this out but that just wasn't the case for utah in the MWC. In utah's years in the mwc they had 5 seasons with 10 wins and 7 seasons with less than 10 wins. Less than half of the time is not exactly "like clockwork" In fact whittingham's mwc years weren't eactly "winning 10 games like clockwork" either. He had 3 10 win seasons and 3 with less than 10 wins. I do like the attempt at trying to make utah into something it has never been but unfortunately there are just to many of us that know better.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:35 a.m.

    If the utes had gone independent, they would be financially drowning. They depended on BYU TV revenue during the WAC, and MWC years, and now the PAC.

    Without entitlements, their sports program would foreclosed, and Chris B would be a Weber State fan.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:08 a.m.

    Oregon State had 20+ years of losing seasons before Riley turned them around.

    Just Sayin'

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:36 a.m.

    @Uteology

    You are spot on, there's a certain fan base that is more concerned with Utah's demise, then their own teams play. Sad when you think about it.

    @Hawkeye79

    Google Sagarin Rankings; per the USA Today. Utah's schedule is currently ranked #11.

    As far as the season goes, it has been very dissapointing. Utah State, UCLA and Oregon State were win-able games. Utah needs to get a better QB. Brian Johnson has done OK in his first season. Players need to execute and make plays. Until that happens, Utah will not beat the better teams in the PAC 12.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:36 a.m.

    They are bad. The haven't beaten a good team in years.

  • TheNun Granstville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    People are saying "the truth hurts" for the Utes, but often overlook the truth of the matter for other teams. That's how is goes when little brothers want to compare themselves to big brother.

    Here's the truth, the Utes are not good enough, yet, to compete at the pac12 level. They are a year, perhaps two, away from having the depth needed on their roster to be consistently competitive in this league. However, they will get there.

    Here's some other truths, playing 6 teams with losing records each year, and proclaiming your win-loss record is meaningful, is laughable. It is also fool hardy to believe playing a schedule like that will make your team better in the long run. Needing only to "get up" for 4 games per year, and then losing all of them, is not a recipe for national credibility, even if the games are on espn.
    As for the other team, playing in the wac and mwc, is just that, playing in the wac and mwc. No matter if either team goes undefeated, the weak SOS will not get them into a "BCS" bowl or other big time games at year's end.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:20 a.m.

    Hi Uteology,

    Where on earth did you come up with your "Top 20 SOS" figure? I just checked several of the major ranking services, including RealTimeRPI, and Utah's SOS is between 49 and 65 in each of them.

    This suggests a mediocre SOS at best.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:01 a.m.

    I'm not concerned about the season, I've always felt that it was going to take the Utes 3 or 4 years to learn how to compete with the "Big Boys." I miss coach Andersen, but I say give Kyle at least two more years before complaining.

    In the mean time, my Utes will just have to console themselves with the "bigger cut" of pie they will soon be receiving from the PAC-12 conference.

    Utah made the right choice by joining the PAC-12 conference of that I have no doubts.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:24 a.m.

    Can't believe the spinning of ute fans. They don't and never will have a winning program. Period! The PAC is a mountain they can't climb, and yes, Gary Anderson was their coaching genius.

    The utes couldn't win the WAC, let alone the PAC.

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 11:29 p.m.

    @ Queen B.

    Paranoid much? I didn't see any Cougars or Aggies commenting on the article, but the first thing you do is start slinging mud at both. And actually you have it wrong. Coach Whittingham didn't take your team there. He first rode Urban Meyer's coattails there, and then Gary Anderson's. Coach Anderson was the real reason that the Utes had any success after Urban left.

    Look at what Utah has done since he left, and look at what Utah State has done. It is obvious who the coaching genious on the hill was. I am not an Aggie fan, but the results speak for themselves.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 13, 2012 11:19 p.m.

    Utah has a top 20 SOS this year and next year it will be worse with games at Oregon, Stanford, and USC. No team in the state has ever had such a schedule. With BJ still learning I think we will continue to struggle for the next few years.

    Hey, at least BYU fans have something to cheer for since they can't beat us themselves.

    Go UTES!!

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 10:49 p.m.

    I think a lot of 7-5, 6-6, 5-7 seasons are in the works. Maybe 8-4 on a good year. It is the new reality...

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 13, 2012 10:36 p.m.

    "Winning 10 games like clockwork in the Mountain West, I mean, that was then and this is now."

    Sorry coach, but when have the Utes ever won 10 games like clockwork in any conference they've ever been in - WAC, MWC, or PAC???

    You've obviously confused winning 10 games like clockwork with your former team down south.

    10+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 5, including FOUR in a row 2006 to 2009
    Kyle 3

    10+ Win Seasons All Time
    BYU 16, including SIX in seven years 1979 to 1985
    Utah 6

    It is a new world for the Utes and the new normal for Utah is 6-6 PAC 12 bottom dweller.

    Sorry if the truth hurts.

    Go Wildcats!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 8:03 p.m.

    I'm not worried.

    I'm frustrated we weren't ready to play the last 2 years, but why do I know Whittingham will take us to the top of the country?

    Because he's already taken us there.

    Aggies and Cougars,

    Please remind me the last time you went undefeated, finished #2 or higher in the country, and won a BCS game?

    Oh I'm sorry you haven't been there. At least not in the past 30 years.

    Our coach has.

    And he'll take us there again

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:06 p.m.

    My comment that the Utes would need 3 seasons to accumulate 10 PAC 12 Conference victories certainly has credibility. If they lose the last two this year they may need 4 seasons to accomplish that. Best of luck, Utes, looking up from near the bottom. (But then the Arizona schools did that for decades....why shouldn't "U"?)

  • NC FROGS 2010 Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:25 p.m.

    The Utes are guaranteed to have their second losing Pac10 conference record in two...it is a new world and U will just need to get used to it.