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Election hastens urgency for immigration reform, Chamber panelists say

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  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Nov. 11, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    I have a good friend, an Hispanic woman, who was brought here by her parents, illegally,as a child. She has since graduated from HS, is taking classes to get her BA and has a good job but technically she isn't a citizen. She was talking with her co-workers, all US citizens, about the election and about the constitution. She, this undocumented worker, was the one who most vigorously defend the constitution while her friends criticized it.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Nov. 11, 2012 6:09 a.m.

    Reagan gave amnesty in 1986, he was paid back when they voted Democratic for every presidential election since then.

    If the Republicans panic and gve amnesty, it will be 12 milion more voters against them. It will make matters even worse.

    We either stay as we are for 4 years, or more states pass laws forcing Obama to obey our immigration laws. He is worried now about how history will see him.

    His record of million of work visas (3.3 million 2012, 2.8 million 2010, 1.7 million 2009) and over a million green cards each year, during 10% unemploymet doesn't look good.

  • TimBehrend Auckland NZ, 00
    Nov. 11, 2012 1:45 a.m.

    JSB, in your comment you advised Republican lawmakers to use bill riders and other tricks that undermine democracy and play the system to dismantle immigration laws written and passed through negotiation and compromise by Congress and not yet even in force. Then you warn Democrats that they can't "continue playing partisan politics" lest "the whole country ... go down the tube". You seem to be saying that only Tea Partisanship and far-right skulduggery are good for the country. It's hard not to conclude that you only consider people who agree with you to be real Americans. That position has a long pedigree in US politics and society. Indeed, the majority religion of Utah was considered outside the pale of real America for a very long time; Romney's candidacy revealed the lingering power of that prejudice. Last week's election results suggest that a position like yours may have become politically untenable in the reality of today's America.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 11, 2012 12:43 a.m.

    Wonder. I agree with you. President Hinckley said there is no place in the LDS church for bigotry, racism and predudice. Many comments on here reflect those attitudes. A caller on KSL,s Doug wright made the following comment. He asked an hispanic co-worker how he voted. The man replied he was not yet a citizen and could not vote. He did admit he would have voted Obama and that immigration policy is the issue. It's time to end the tea party and return to true conservative values as espoused by Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt and Reagan.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 6:03 p.m.

    CTR? that's what those coming here forgot to do. They made the decision to break up their family. Right now 2/3rds of our green cards go to re-unite families. Hardly fair to those who do not have family here.

    4.3 million in a line last year.
    D&C 42: 79, 84-86
    84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    85 And if he or she shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    86 And if he or she shall lie, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.

    You are telling the wrong people to CTR.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 3:07 p.m.

    I like your ideas matt4226. Sounds sensible. As to 1 conservative -- You've never heard of the tea party? Where have you been the past 3 years? I think you might be telling a fib. Here are some quotes from the comments above that exemplify what I was talking about at 9:23 --From mohokit: "Why the hispanics vote for Dems is plain and simple. Government handouts. They saw the one and only Obama Claus. Free Stuff.” and “The huge majority of Hispanics come here uneducated, unskilled and already convinced that Government is where the goodies are.” From Say No to BO: "OK. We give up. Take the country.
Are all you Utah Compact people happy now?
Last one out bring the flag.” From wrz: “And they [immigrants] seem to vote Democrat. It's hard to run against Santa Claus.” The implication is that Hispanics are too lazy, won't work, just want things given to them, etc. And that they are some "other" who is trying to "take our country away" -- as if it's only for Anglo-Saxons I guess. It's insulting. Funny you don't think that it is.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    "Matt" Why would they be interested in paying a fine in order to become legal?

    It actually works out better for illegal trespassers if they stay below the radar. Many of them file false tax returns claiming numerous dependents, receive earned income credit, have a check mailed to them; and then move to a new address. Last year that scam cost the U.S treasury somewhere between 4-5 billion dollars (source: IRS)

    If the federal government won't do their job now why would they do they be interested in doing it AFTER a few paid fines?

  • matt4226 Holladay, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 2:26 p.m.

    Immigration reform is a very complicated issue. There are those who believe that every person who is here illegally should be deported immediately and without question (justice). There are those who believe that a path should be created for people that entered the country illegally but who have lived here for a number of years to become legal immigrants (mercy). There has to be a balance between the two.

    For example, anyone who has gone through the legal immigration process knows that it can take a year or more and cost a few thousand dollars or more. I suggest a plan be created to allow people who immigrated into this country illegally to pay a fine which would then give them temporary status while they go through the same immigration process as all other foreigners have to go through. At the same time ICE should continue to focus on deporting those with criminal records and those that have recently entered the country illegally. Finally we must insist that all employers use e-verify and fine companies that don't comply.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 2:18 p.m.

    "wonder"@9:23
    Why do you call your fellow man such bad names?

    YOU are the only one using those kinds of phrases.

    Does your political/religious affiliation encourage that?

    I know MY religion doesn't tolerate it. Neither does the party of Mitt Romney.

    I don't think the "tea party" (whoever they are)does either.

  • Miss Piggie Ogden, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 1:33 p.m.

    @DavidNichols:

    "What kind of 'Saint' would Rip apart good Christian Families, and Deport Parents away from their Legal Citizen Children?"

    What kind of a person would violate the laws of a neighboring country? And what kind of a person would leave their family behind? Certainly not a Saint.

    "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

    Blessed are those who enter another person's country LEGALLY and LAWFULLY for they shall reap the benefits of a free land full of law-abiding people.

    "For the poor migrating to America, the 'System is Broken,' There is NO LINE!"

    If there's no line, there's no space available, so stay home. Help make something of your own country.

    "Amnesty is the very Basis of Christianity!"

    Entering another's home without permission is the antithesis of Christianity. If you want in, sign up and get permission.

    "What would Jesus do?"

    He drove the money changers from the temple.

    "C.T.R?"

    Violating the laws of another country is not CTR. It's more akin to CTW.

  • Janet Ontario, OR
    Nov. 10, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    @ David Nichols and Wonder: Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are voices in an intellectual and spiritual wilderness.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 12:17 p.m.

    @DN Subscriber 2:

    "Any form of amnesty will just attract more law breakers who will patiently wait..."

    They probably won't need to wait... The Obama immigration reform plan will make them all citizens as soon as the cross the border.

    "Frankly, though, Obama will have our country so totally bankrupt and with a permanently broken economy by the end of his second term..."

    Don't knock it. Obama's solution to the illegal immigration problem is very clever and quite simple... Bankrupt this country and immigrants will not only not come, they will start leaving for greener pastures. Problem solved. This president is the smarted we've ever seen... smarter even than Jimmy Caata.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 12:10 p.m.

    @DavidNichols
    Your data on the suffering of illegal aliens seems to lack any body count of our own citizens killed by illegal aliens.
    Strange that you would omit that.

  • ArizonaRed Prescott Valley, AZ
    Nov. 10, 2012 11:59 a.m.

    Go ahead and hold onto the fantasy that all illegals can be rounded up and sent back to Mexico and to the back of the line. That is not going to happen. Yes, entering the country illegally is a crime.....a misdemeanor. Like I said, fine them and make them legal to pay into the system. Regan did the right thing by granting amnesty.....but the border wasn't secured to stop the flow of illegal immigrants. Got to seal the border first.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 11:45 a.m.

    @DN Subscriber 2 -- When in 4 years our country is not bankrupt, "illegals" have not ruined the country, we are not all out on the streets in abject poverty, the end of the world has not occurred, etc. I hope that you (and your many equally distraught tea party types) will reflect on your wild pronouncements and realize that maybe you were just a tad bit hysterical.

  • DavidNichols Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 10, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    What kind of "Saint" would Rip apart good Christian Families, and Deport Parents away from their Legal Citizen Children?

    "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

    For the poor migrating to America, the "System is Broken", There is NO LINE!

    For those saying: "No Amnesty", I hope your Maker grants you a little "Amnesty".

    Amnesty is the very Basis of Christianity!

    What would Jesus do?

    C.T.R?

    To: Good.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 11:11 a.m.

    Translation- The Chamber of Commerce and a couple of renegades who refuse to enforce the laws their jobs require them to enforce, and a few pandering politicians want the easy fix- AMNESTY!

    True immigration reform will reward those who play by the rules, and penalize those who break our laws. Nothing else will be acceptable, or effective.

    Any form of amnesty will just attract more law breakers who will patiently wait until they total so many that another round of amnesty will be demanded.

    Frankly, though, Obama will have our country so totally bankrupt and with a permanently broken economy by the end of his second term that 20 million illegals will be the least of our problems.

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    @ArizonaRed:

    "Register those here illegally, give them a social security number so they start paying all taxes immediately..."

    That's right... give them jobs so they can pay taxes so the government will have money to pay unemployment benefits for laid-off American workers whose jobs they took. Good plan.

    @DavidNichols:

    "Over Five Thousand Legal Hispanic Children are now Parentless..."

    They should-a took their kids with 'em.

    "Over Thirteen Thousand non-criminal Hispanic Immigrants have been Incarcerated for years with out even charges."

    If they came here without permission they ARE criminals.

    "This is America's Darkest Hour!"

    It's America's darkest four years... and we now have four more to go.

    "This great Nation of Immigrants was Built on Far Better Principles and Values than to Rip apart Good Christian Families, and to Deport, or Incarcerate Parents away fron their Legal Citizen Children!"

    This great nation is a nation of laws. Without laws we have no nation. We welcome LEGAL immigrants. Those who come illegally and fall into trouble... it's their own fault. Criminals often have families torn apart. Bank robbers spend time in jail while their families pine for them.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 10:05 a.m.

    @Fitness Freak:

    "How many 'new' immigration bill need to be passed til the feds find one they'll actually enforce?"

    Enforcement of any immigration laws is a thing of the past... too many immigrants who vote. And they seem to vote Democrat. It's hard to run against Santa Claus.

    "Implement e-verify (along with stiff penalties for non-compliance)and 95% of the problem would be solved at very low cost to taxpayers."

    Who's supposed to do the implementing... the President and his Attorney General? Never happen as long as we have a Democrat in the White House. They ride to power on the Latino vote. And the lion's share of immigrants, illegal or not, are Latino.

    @RRB:

    "Average 31% vote Republican"

    Average 69% vote Democrat. What percent does it take to win an election? Ans: 50.01%.

    @My2Cents:

    "Why is our presidnet so eager to make a 3rd offer of Amnesty..."

    Because he wants their vote. Heck, he's an immigrant himself.

    "This urgency to destroy america is an act of treason... justification for impeacing the president..."

    One would hope, if the Republicans ever control Congress they might just impeach.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 9:23 a.m.

    Keep it up tea partiers. Keep on talking trash about a growing segment of the population. Of course everyone likes to be stereotyped as a lazy, filthy moocher just because of their place of origin or race, so you're scoring points left and right.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 8:42 a.m.

    A a small businessman and conservative I have to say the Chamber is loose again. What they are in support of is cheap labor. Shurtleff has adopted mexican children so he is somewhat jaded. Democrats want permanent votes. Why the hispanics vote for Dems is plain and simple. Government handouts. They saw the one and only Obama Claus. Free Stuff. When the GOP can out give the Dems then Hispnics will vote for them. Until then only the Hispanics who are informed will vote for Rep. The huge majority of Hispanics come here uneducated, unskilled and already convinced that Government is where the goodies are. Matter of fact Obama had commercials on Mexican radio stations in Mexico telling them how to get welfare once they were here. Look it up.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    The world ( demos and repubs) are moving to the left. People with values are being left behind to stand alone. LIke when they cheered here at the democratic party tues night when a few states passed laws to ok gay marriage and smoking dope. the world is changing and not for the better.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 7:29 a.m.

    We gave out 3.3 million work visas last year. I can post the numbers and names of the visas. Other companies in competition with Overstock use Americans to fill these positions. It might cost a few dollars more an hour for someone with 20 years experience, but it makes our country stronger.

    Our birthrate is right where it's always been the past hundred years. Once the economy improves it will go back to where it's suppose to be. Then we replace our own population.

    We had 100 million in 1920, by 1970 we have 200 million, by 2000 we had 300 million. Most of the growth came from immigration. Business does not want replacement growth, they want a surplus labor bubble. 23 million Americans are looking for full time jobs. Let's take care of them before we talk more visas. 4.3 million green cards and work visas are out of place in this economy.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 7:08 a.m.

    OK. We give up. Take the country.
    Are all you Utah Compact people happy now?
    Last one out bring the flag.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 7:07 a.m.

    @Utes Fan
    I have watched it happen. Big companies lay off the IT staff and hire "consultants" from India. They bring in a couple of guys at half what our own people were making (and no benefits, to boot). The "consultants" here are systems guys who spec out the projects and the work is done in India.
    There are plenty of errors and delays but no one cares because they no longer have an IT staff payroll.
    Engineers have the same problem. When was the last time you saw a consumer product (appliance, TV, computer...) made in the USA. Even the so-called "American brands" are made overseas. They've got salesmen here and that's about it. With repair labor at $75/hour nothing is worth repairing any longer.
    All those were once jobs in the USA. You don't have an economy without the full spectrum of jobs tied to consumer product manufacturing.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 7:06 a.m.

    If we are going to have a line for people to come to this country, you can't reward those that bypass the line. They need to be sent to the back of the line.

    That doesn't mean you should stop treating them like people. I am in favor of simplifying and fixing legal immigration.

  • DavidNichols Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 10, 2012 7:02 a.m.

    "Election hastens urgency of Immigration reform."

    Listen all ye "Saints".

    Since January 2008 and the start of the I.C.E. Mass Deportation/Incarceration Programs:

    Over Five Thousand Legal Hispanic Children are now Parentless, and in U.S. Foster Care.
    Over Thirteen Thousand non-criminal Hispanic Immigrants have been Incarcerated for years with out even charges.
    Over One Hundred non-criminal Hispanic Human Beings have Died in I.C.E. Custody.
    Over Forty-two Thousand Deported Hispanic Human Beings now lay Dead at the Harsh U.S. Mexico Border where I.C.E. has Deported/Dumped Hundreds of Thousands of Human Beings into a "known Drug War" with nothing, not even water, to be Killed, or to Die of the elements.

    I sure am glad that Losing an "Election hastens the urgency of Immigration reform."

    This is America's Darkest Hour!

    This great Nation of Immigrants was Built on Far Better Principles and Values than to Rip apart Good Christian Families, and to Deport, or Incarcerate Parents away fron their Legal Citizen Children!

    We can't figure out why are Nation is Falling, and "What Wrong Road we are on?"

    Choose The Right?

    To: Good in America.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 6:58 a.m.

    If you still think that Mark the AG is representing Utah citizens in any way whatsoever, then you're both sadly and totally mistaken, but also woefully naive. He has been working hard for Barack, the cheap-labor lobby, and Mark himself . . . but certainly not the citizens of Utah. The ongoing invasion is one of the elements that keeps dangerous people in power, and simultaneously destroys opportunities and the livelihoods of our actual citizens. It truly is "the other end of the stick," and there's nothing about what's been happening that's either fair or beneficial for those who live and work here, and pay taxes. The "free" lunch is costing the rest of us dearly, and "immigration reform" (i.e., amnesty for invaders) isn't going to help anyone but those who are gaming us continually.

  • ArizonaRed Prescott Valley, AZ
    Nov. 10, 2012 6:23 a.m.

    Thing is, JSB, it is a big part of their plan in the Obama administration is to collapse our economy so that the feds can take over thus taking more control from the private sector......or pick the people THEY want to run them. Notice there was never any 'big picture' plan from the left? I've always disagreed with the republican party's immigration policies....in part. For security reasons we must secure the border. Then a conditional amnesty. Deport those felons who have committed murder, rape, or other serious offenses. Register those here illegally, give them a social security number so they start paying all taxes immediately, have a probationary period to where they can pay off their fine for entering the country illegally after which they will become full fledged American citizens. I understand that not all that are here illegally have jobs. But it is far better to have those that are here that have jobs paying into the system which they are using such as health care, welfare, ect ect.

  • DavidNichols Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 10, 2012 6:01 a.m.

    Since the January 2008 start of the E-verify *Attrition) Law,the I.C.E. Deportation/Incarceration Programs, America has Faltered, it has Crashed Economically, and Divided Racially.

    Every Stimulus, Bail Out, Cash for Clunkers, Mortgage Program, ect. have come since January 2008 as a Direct Result of "CHOOSING THE WRONG"and Ripping apart good Christian Families, even Deporting Parents away from their Legal Citizen Children!
    It has only been Treating the Symptoms!

    Fact: THe Hard Labor Immigrants gladly did FOR America was the very Foundation of our Strong Economy, and the twenty-five year period prior to January 2008 was in fact "The Most Prosperous time in Total U.S. History.

    "America is great because it is good, when it ceases to be good, it ceases to be great."
    Alex De Tocqueville, a very wise 1840's French Historian.

    This is our I.C.E.'d Economy.

    I.C.E. "Put the Car in the Ditch."

    C.T.R?????

    To: Good, and Brotherhood, from Sea to shining Sea?

  • hubbardesquire Alabaster, Alabama
    Nov. 10, 2012 2:44 a.m.

    So, the chamber wants to repeat the same mistake McCain made in 2008. McCain wanted to give amnesty to illegals but, he still did not win the election. You chamber-types need to hear this message again -- NO AMNESTY FOR ILLEGALS!!

  • wigglwagon Mariion, Va
    Nov. 10, 2012 1:50 a.m.

    "The visas are not needed. CEOs simply want cheap, compliant, "de-facto" indentured servants on visas. That is their agenda - not a lack of workers."

    Utes Fan, you are 100% right. It really is that simple.

  • My2Cents Taylorsville, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 1:43 a.m.

    So what is the urgency to encourage foreign natioanls to invade the United States and hand them $60,000 of our tax funds when the cross the border illegally? Why is out presidnet so eager to make a 3rd offer of Amenesty when the illegal aliens rejected the firts two offers under Reagan and Bush?

    The only reason to encourage invasion and occupation by foreign nationals is to oppress the American and keep them in poverty with cheap labor and $60,000/yr federal funding for illegal aliens. The Mexican population are proponents of socialism and encourage our president in his quest for absolute Marxist powers in the next year. Mexican nationals are the presidents chosen to destroy the United States and its Constitutional government.

    This urgency to destroy america is an act of treason and declartion of war on the United States and justification for impeacing the president, vice president, and the czars or the white house.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 12:52 a.m.

    Latino's have never voted for a Republican president.
    1980/Reagan) 35%
    1984 (Reagan)37%
    1988 (Bush) 30%
    1992 (Bush) 25%
    1996 (Dole) 21%
    2000 (Bush) 35%
    2004 (Bush) 40%
    2008 (McCain) 31%
    2012 (Romney) 27%
    Average 31% vote Republican

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 12:34 a.m.

    Same old song and dance from the same people. There is already a path for visa workers/students to gain citizenship once they obtain a bachelor degree.

    Romney didn't lose because of the Latino's, he lost because of the white vote in our Northeast and Northwest that never voted for him.

    Will the press blame Latino's if Obama messes up?

  • Watch Dog Provo, UT
    Nov. 10, 2012 12:19 a.m.

    The difference between Arizona's approach and Utah's approach to immigration is that AZ is attempting to enforce federal law, and Utah is thumbing their nose at the federal law. For example, granting instate tuition to illegal aliens (against federal law), having their own guest worker program (another violation of federal law), having their own E-Verify, this list goes on and on.

    Heck, we have cops like Shurtleff and Burbank that refuse to enforce federal immigration laws. They argue that it is a federal responsibility, but they don't apply the same twisted logic to bank robbery, kidnapping, etc., etc., WHICH ALSO ARE federal laws - which they choose to enforce.

    Apparently, they think they have some right to pick and choose which federal law to enforce, which simply is not so!

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 9, 2012 10:16 p.m.

    There is nonsense in this article about the high-tech employers who want more visas. I've been in high-tech for twenty years. By the skin of my teeth I survived numerous high-tech bubbles and busts. Overstock has had a history of layoff - even recently - and now they want more foreign workers? In the late 90s and early part of the century, the USA allowed hundreds of thousands of foreign workers on visas, yet there was more than a 10% drop in the number of US citizens as the dot-com bubble burst.

    When there is a need for workers, CEOs cry for more foreign workers. But the hiring phase will slow down, and US citizens will be looking for work again - but the USA will continue to bring in near 100 thousand foreign workers on visas - and US citizens will be forced out of technology careers and into something less.

    Around 1999, about 20% of US workers in IT were on visas. Now it is close to 40%. Get my point?

    The visas are not needed. CEOs simply want cheap, compliant, "de-facto" indentured servants on visas. That is their agenda - not a lack of workers.

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Nov. 9, 2012 8:32 p.m.

    We need good responsible legislation but every bill the house passes should have attached to it a provision that revokes part of Obamacare. If they can't reject the whole thing, they can dismantle it piece by piece and if the democrats don't like it they can continue playing partisan politics and the whole country can go down the tube.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 9, 2012 8:01 p.m.

    How many "new" immigration bill need to be passed til the feds find one they'll actually enforce?

    Implement e-verify (along with stiff penalties for non-compliance)and 95% of the problem would be solved at very low cost to taxpayers.

    Americans need jobs FIRST.