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Comments about ‘Same-sex marriage votes Tuesday night turn conversations back to family’

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Published: Thursday, Nov. 8 2012 6:27 p.m. MST

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atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@ClarkHippo
"My wife and I have been unable to have a child. We hope one day to adopt. If same-sex couples are permitted to legally marry like straight couples, will that give them special minority status and thereby give them special consideration on matter such as adoption, foster care and school choice? "

Nope. They'd only have the same opportunities you and your wife do.

johnnylingo62
Gray, TN

When you take God out of the world and rely on Secular philosophies of Men, society suffers and civilizations collapse. Mock the sanctity of marriage as established by God and we will see the consequences. Laugh at God's commandments and call it superstitious, but history shows all too well what happens when men (and women) decide to do things contrary to God's commands. If your CREATOR tells you what is good to do with our time, bodies and minds why don't we listen?
If a Honda Engineer designs and creates your Accord to only put Gasoline into the gas tank as the only source of energy that the car was Designed to use, and you put Diesel into the tank, just because you felt like it and you like diesel more than gasoline (personal taste or it was the only "gas" available) - what do you think is going to happen to your Accord? It's not going to run. it may still be a car, but it's not going to get you around town - and it will not serve you as designed.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@atl134

I truly hope you and TimBehrend are right. If people honesty, truly want equality, meaning they are willing to accept both the good and bad that comes with being completely and totally equal, I say, Wonderful! But is that possible?

Affirmative Action laws have for years given African-Americans and Latinos special consideration in terms of jobs and educational opportunities, and these laws have been upheld by court after court. Why would gays and lesbians not want to use this same thing to their advantage, especially when competing for those few kids out their in need of adoption and/or foster care?

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

johnnylingo62:
Who made Gays?
Let me answer that...God did, is his design flawed or your logic?

Our country is NOT a theocracy, although a lot of folks obviously believe they speak for God?

DWP
USA, UT

What is the point in all of this? I doubt that it is because a couple wants a certificate to put in their scrapbook. As I drive through town, houses are not marked indicating that the occupants are married or not. It is not a crime for two men or women to live together. It is their choice on the decisions they make in their personal lives. So what benefit are they really seeking through a marriage?

Shimlau
SAINT GEORGE, UT

atl134: How do you know if " the church did internally assess prop 8 as a PR mess not a benefit." Were you involved in the councils that helped to determine this? If not, then watch what you say.

EDM
Castle Valley, Utah

There is no rational reason to prohibit same-sex marriage. This is why it won in these states, and why it will eventually become legal in all states.

Shimlau
SAINT GEORGE, UT

Happy Valley Heretic: Who made Gays?
Let me answer that...God did, is his design flawed or your logic?

Our country is NOT a theocracy, although a lot of folks obviously believe they speak for God?. Now, you also believe you speak for God? Does He give you that right? Man is given his free agency, that means he is free to act, as he wishes. He has the ability to tell God "No!" He (mankind) will suffer if he does, but it is still his right. Now, you may say that I am speaking for God, but I am only stating things as I know them, or believe them, to be.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

More misused words:

Equality - The argument, though you say it is old, is still true, that for millennia, traditional marriage has been reserved for a man and a woman who can produce and provide for children. Claims for *equality* with gay marriage are only recent phenomena, asserting rights that never existed. I think it far-fetched to think the founding fathers were referring to gay marriage as one of the inalienable rights when they wrote the Declaration of Independence. I imagine they are rolling in their graves right now to see what people use that document and the constitution to justify.

Discrimination – One posting says *(Marriage) does not constitute a special right reserved only for a portion of the citizenry* I respectfully disagree. We do reserve marriage for a certain citizenry. We don’t let close relatives marry. We don’t let underage citizens marry. We don’t allow polygamy. We don’t afford that right to just anyone, but to those who are willing to publically commit to one another and meet other criteria. Marriage is a social, moral, and legal, binding agreement with far more significance than some people currently realize.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

Knowledge, enlightenment, ignorance, and darkness – four more words used erroneously to describe the liberal left attitude that the GLBT community has knowledge and enlightenment while those opposed to gay marriage are ignorant and in darkness. This is a classic case of calling good bad and bad good. Turning the tables to assert anti-gay-marriage behavior is ignorant and dark says that thoughtful people of traditional, conservative values are bad. What a turnabout?

I base my arguments on millennia of conservative values and history, not on the decisions of he last 10-15 years by liberal judges who like to legislate from the bench, who misunderstand “inalienable” rights to include gay marriage between two people who engage in intimate behavior with people of the same gender. Call it what it is: Intimate physical relations between people of the same gender. Doesn’t seem so innocent when you say it that way. It's a shame and a commentary on society that some electorates have bought into the GLBT agenda.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

DWP
So what benefit are they really seeking through a marriage?

-------------
There are many benefits that the federal/state government offers to those who are married. Couples are allowed to inherit their spouse's estate without paying inheritance taxes to the fed (see Edie Windsor's story). They are allowed to make medical decisions for their spouse if the spouse is unable to. They are able to have their spouse's social security benefits if the spouse passes away, etc.

But the greatest benefit that they are looking for is to be able to state that they commit to a person that they love in front of the state and loved ones and have it recognized by the state.

Civil marriage (and all who legally marry are civilly married, btw) is a contract between the two people and the state. The state offers to make these two people related by law when they make their commitments. They become closer related than even their parents.

These privileges need to be offered to all American citizens.

NedGrimley
Brigham City, UT

Article: "We have crossed a crucial threshold in our country’s journey..." Yes, we have.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Very concerned,

The founding fathers never thought we would allow blacks and whites to marry either! They never thought that women would be allowed to vote.

It is no longer your claim that it is only "liberal judges" that are allowing gays to marry. State legislatures have passed these laws (voted in by the people), and now, for the first time, the people themselves have voted for these laws.

I believe in gay marriage because I am an American. I have read the constitution many times and I believe in the 14th amendment.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Igualmente;

You don't know your scriptures very well:

Ezekiel 16:49 (KJV)
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. (Sounds remarkably like the Republican Platform).

@ClarkHippo;
If religion would mind it's own business it wouldn't be having the trouble you are complaining about. You won't know what equality will bring until you have equality, but I doubt your fears have any basis in reality.

@johnnylingo62;
Boring.

@very concerned;
You discuss "knowledge and enlightenment" as if you had it. When you refuse to use your religious beliefs to decide what others are allowed to do, then you have achieved knowledge and enlightenment.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Shimlau
Do you have a better idea as to why they didn't get involved in something that they considered so important in 2008?

@DWP
"So what benefit are they really seeking through a marriage?"

There are roughly 1000 legal provisions that are granted through marriage. The most obvious is that you can file taxes as a couple. Of course that will require federal recognition to affect federal taxes not just state recognition. A lot of those couples are religious and their churches marry same-sex couples.

@very concerned
"Call it what it is: Intimate physical relations between people of the same gender. Doesn’t seem so innocent when you say it that way. "

No, that's sex. Marriage is something different.

Sparon
austin, TX

The idea that marriage should be anything but what we know from scripture standpoint is ridiculous. Even the proponents of Gay marriage believe that the traditional template of marriage which is that there is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife cleaving together and to none else should be used. The fact that they believe that marriage is defined as between a man and a woman should make them abolish their stand and call whatever they are engaged in something else other than marriage. Here is where we take the template from.

Mark 10:7
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

We love those who are struggling to find themselves, but we are not redefine God's laws just to prove that we love and care about them. Remember the first great commandment is to love God with all of your heart, might, mind and strength, and then the second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Follow both. thanks

aunt lucy
Looneyville, UT

To me it all boils down to principles of religion. Similar to others opposed to gay marriage, I have a strong belief that God has established principles which govern our existence in this world experience. The worldly way of handling things is to work actively through legislation to bring about changes. LGBT activists have been heavily invested in this for years. One hasn't been able to turn on a sitcom or read a paper without some reference to this issue for years. No doubt if this isn't the turning point when the majority will sympathize with this effort then the turning point is not far off. Still, I will cling to my belief that we can legislate sin into righteousness all we want, but is is also clear what will happen at judgment day. If LGBT activists could legislate changes to allow same sex partners to procreate they would. Still, LGBT activist should be smiling because there is no doubt in my mind that with each passing day those who share my way of thinking will be fewer and fewer. Their only concern should be about the next life. Might not be smiling there!

very concerned
Sandy, UT

@Happy Valley Heretic

(Who made Gays?
Let me answer that...God did, is his design flawed or your logic?)
You are correct. God created gays. He also created every other imperfect human being. All of us transgress. But He expects us to overcome our sins through the atonement.

@Ranchhand
No . . . I do not have all knowledge and enlightenment, but I do have the assurance that God speaks to prophets/apostles on these issues. Inevitably, religious teaching will guide many of us in our policies, voting, and beliefs. This country was obviously founded on Judeo-Christian values. I submit gay issues are HIGHLY charged with religious, ethical, practical, physical, and moral implications, and therefore wide open for deep debate and politics. In many ways, we cannot and should not separate a persons deeply held convictions from his/her politics.

@Lane Myer
Yes, legislatures and the electorate have sanctioned gay marriage in some states. As I said in my posting, that is a shame. Religiously speaking, the Book of Mormon teaches us that when the people (not necessarily the leaders), choose unwisely, that civilization is becoming more ripe in its iniquity.

isrred
South Jordan, UT

@Sparon
"We love those who are struggling..."
The only reason this is in any way a struggle is because of people like you insisting on imposing your religious beliefs on those outside of your religion. If you would just practice the principles you believe in and let others govern themselves when it does not impact you one bit, there would be far less "struggling".

Paul in MD
Montgomery Village, MD

I have a problem with how quickly people use the word homophobe. All I have to do is say I oppose same-sex marriage, and I'm labeled a homophobe. That is like saying that since I oppose smoking I'm afraid of tobacco.

When someone is so quick to label their opponents, it reflects stupidity, a willingness to over-generalize, or simply lie to promote their own position.

If I were truly homophobic, I wouldn't live or work where I do. I'm not afraid of people who are homosexual.

I've read the comments on a lot of articles like this one. Each time, there are a few reasonable, thoughtful comments by people trying to honestly discuss the issue. Unfortunately, the conversation quickly devolves into mindless repetition of silly arguments, blatant bigotry, rampant baseless generalizations, and useless name-calling. And it all flows equally in volume and nastiness in both directions.

Be honest. Show respect. Don't call others names.

These are things our parents taught us from the time we could understand words. Yet these comment boards prove time and again that too many of us have forgotten these simple rules of good behavior.

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