In reading all of the information on the rulings, I have not seen one thing that
mentions what exactly does 3 years of probation mean for East and Timpview. What
does probation mean for Utah high school programs? Do they not have football
programs for 3 years, lose scholarships, fewer recruiting trips, etc? What does
probation mean in this sense? Someone please enlighten me.
I have been confused by the various new reports, did East play one or four
VariedHuethe reason why u guys were able to "work" East was
because u guys are different style football teams. your pass offense vs their
run offense and on that particular night (especially with what was going on) i
admit u guys did outplay them. but make no mistake, ive seen both Logan and
Timpview play and im sorry but Timpview is basically a better version of Logan
so be careful what u wish for. Go Miners! this may not be our year but
anything can happen!
Logan Worked East and will do the same to Timpview. Bring it on!
@ EagleYou stated the decision was made by high school
administrators. Let me clarify...The Executive Committee that made
the original decision to have all games forfeited is made up of high school
principals. They reversed the decision of the Region 6 Principals which went
against what has always been adhered to across the state when a school uses a
player that is not deemed eligible (whether intentionally or unintentionally).
The Board of Trustees that then reversed the decision of the
Executive Committee is made up of school board members from each of the Regions
throughout Utah. They trump the Executive Committee. For some unknown reason,
they went away from the decision and tried to create some quasi-policy that has
no hope of being enforceable in the future.If you are familiar with
a school district setting, it is the same as a high school principal making a
decision which is consistent with district policy. Then the parent goes to the
school board, cries and begs for a different answer only to have the school
board cave in. I too would love to know the BOT members that created this mess
for all future regions to deal with.
In our legal system people charged with the same crime receive different
punishments EVERY SINGLE DAY. Based on the circumstances of each particular
situation-with variations for Judge, Jury and Attorneys involved. This is not
any different. As long as rules and laws are applied different outcomes are
allowed for the same charges. And frankly unless any of us have the entire
story--which I am guessing no one does--we really can not comment on these
Again, the people that made these decisions are HIGH SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS.
There is directors that work full time to coordinate the different state
competitions, track paper work and put together record books etc. Perhaps if
these directors, many of which have administrative and sports experience and who
are non bound toschools or other friends in administration could have made this
decision, I think things would be differently. This is the change that needs to
be made with the UHSAA. These directors truly need to be trusted to make
decisions and thus we know who made these decisions. I wonder if the names of
the Board of Trustees could or should be released so we know who to hold
directly accountable for these rulings. Were they the same people in both
decisions? If so, could some have axes to grind with Timpview, which had the
rules enforced against them, but friends to East where they didn't get the
same treatment but in a sense skirted punishment? Also, it seems that no
thought was given to the unintended consequences of these decisions. Good
journalism and transparency is needed so we know who actually made these
I'm just curious...who is the Utah High School Athletics Association
accountable to? I assume they are paid with Tax Payer dollars. Regardless of
what side you are on, I think everyone can agree that the handling of this issue
was really messed up. Hopefully the powers that be will be held accountable. I
think the UHSA are confusing themselves to be a bit more than they really are.
This shouldn't be a power trip for them like the Commissioner's of Pro
Sports or even the NCAA...they should take a step back and really look at who
they really are. I think their is a real competency gap and it will be
addressed...I guess that is the one positive outcome of this mess. In the
meantime, let's get the focus back on the kids and move forward support our
student athletes and quit feeling sorry for ourselves that we are stuck with
playing Timpview or East in the early rounds. If we are a legitimate
contender...we are going to have to beat them eventually anyway.
How about Salem Hills and Springville who were left out of the playoffs because
the UHSAA BOT decided to enforce Timpview's forfeits but not East and gift
wrapped and appearance for Mountain View in the play-offs. I would
say the losers of this were 1) Salem Hills and Springville tied for first 2)
Cyprus who should be in if the UHSAA enforces its rules like it should 3)
Mountain View/Herriman who get to play East now in the fourth spot 4) Logan who
now has to play Timpview sho slid to third because again the UHSAA enforced its
rules against Timpview but not East.The biggest winners are East
obviously. But WX, Bountiful and Highland moved up a spot an got easier
opponents. Maple Mountain goes from playing Logan on the road to getting Box
Elder on the road, I would say this worked out well for them. Mountain View,
yes they will play East but avoided a play-in game with Salem Hills and
Springville due to gaining fifth place via a forfeit win. Orem moved up as well
and got an easier first round opponent. The decision(s) had huge
How is it that a school with a 4-6 record (Mtn View) is in the playoffs but a
school with a 5-5 record (Cyprus) is not? Maybe it is time to do away with
Regions and just let the however many teams with the best records play!
Step into the shoes of a Cyprus football player for a moment. You have a brand
new coach from out of state that you know nothing about but you and your team
rally to have the best season in a long time. You end with a 5-5 record but
because you play in one of the hardest 4A regions you don't make the
playoffs. Until East is penalized for cheating then you get to be in a play-in
game. But wait East gets rewarded for cheating and is back in and you are back
out. How would you feel? Everybody says "poor East". What about poor
Cyprus who is ranked 18th in 4A in the state but Mtn View who is ranked 20th and
has a 2-7 record is in! Maybe it is time to get rid of regions and just let the
top however many teams play in the playoffs!
So UHSAA, please enlighten us: what is East's final record that puts them
as the 4th place team in Region 6? Oh, that's right, you won't say.
Just be honest: You arbitrarily decided that because enough East kids,
administrators and coaches cried on camera that you let them in the playoffs.
Either they're guilty (forfeit ALL games with ineligible players) or not
(they then remain #1 in Region 6). Forget the integrity of the game.
Forget the mess that you've created now and in the future. Forget the
impact on all of the other players and schools who played by the rules (Cyprus,
Mtn. View, Logan, Herriman, etc) who now get the shaft because you caved to the
East pressure. Forget the fact that you've created a double standard that
if your East it's OK to play with ineligible players, but if you're
Timpview it's not. I have a simple solution: Let's abolish
the UHSAA. It's clear that this is an organization that is not interested
in the welfare of Utah high school athletes.
It is important to realize who the UHSAA actually is. There is the board of
directors led by Rob Cuff. He has four associate directors I do believe. They
are to administer the competitions, keep track of records etc. But
who made this decision? It was the UHSAA Board of Trustees who are principals
from various schools. So when one bashes the UHSAA, for this particular issue,
they really should be bashing the high school administrators across the state.
Of course Cuff or the lawyer for the UHSAA (VanWagoner) has the unenviable task
of explaining or defending these decisions. But in reality, the
UHSAA is really just a governing body of high school administrators with the
front people who administer the competitions, handle the paperwork, keep track
of records etc. who often get the blame for these silly decisions...
The UHSAA needs to be dissolved. They are just a bunch of power hungry people
who don't know what they are doing! The best thing that could happen is if
the other teams protest EAST. East can just play themselves.
InterestedSportsFan you bring up a very interesting point with the questions
about if the East players are "eligible by definition". I was told that
each one of the players in question would be eligible with a simple form and
would not have required any special consideration from UHSAA. They said that
these players had not played high school sports anywhere else ever except for 1
and he hadn't played for two years. If this is in fact true I think it is
makes a big difference. If these players would have been deemed eligible I
think that is totally different then players who are ineligible for other
reasons (ie. recruitment, grades etc).
Just because a bunch of kids and the coach cry on camera they should not be
allowed to break the rules. Break the rules pay the price, all involved
including the players
Why is UHSAA so difficult. So much of what I've read regarding this issue
wouldn't be so controversial if the UHSAA implemented a better process.
It's just like income tax. Require all schools to submit the proper forms.
Reserve the right to audit. If an error can be fixed then correct it. If if
can't then there is deception. Just like taxes if there is cheating or
deception, there is punishment. The real question here is "are the East
players by definition eligible?" Why didn't the UHSAA review each
player in question and determine if in fact they would have been deemed
eligible? Everyone seems so caught up with the idea this has more to do with a
"form" and when/if it was submitted.
Not fair for Mountain View who is a 4-6 team have to play a number one team
East, even though East is a fourth seed team with a record of 8-1. East (8-1) at
Mountain View (4-6)
I think this was a merciful decision and I'm happily surprised that East
gets to play. Can people really complain about lesser teams not getting into the
playoffs, or about not having easier early round match-ups? I assume these
people value fairness way over competition- understandable. In that case,
respect that East has gone through a long and hard process, hardest for their
student-athletes, who really didn't have a hand in the mistakes. Either
way, a decision would have been controversial. Other than the fine, I personally
like what was decided. It is really unfortunate that East and Timpview had
region titles taken away, when they are clearly the best in their regions, but I
guess it's "fair".
I think Logan, got the shortest end of the stick here. After all is said and
High school athletics is a mess. We need to toughen up and enforce eligibility
Leave it to Big Eudcation to teach kids cheating is OK.
Perhaps this is unfair for Mtn View. Now after they beat the real Region 6
Champion, they have to turn around on Saturday and beat the Region 7 Champion in
their first round. Did anyone ever think of that!!!!
This was an ugly situation all the way around. I had the chance to talk to one
of the trustees when they were wrestling with the initial situation and I knew
without him going into specifics that they were dealing with East and I could
tell he was not happy with where they going with it all. Penalize the kids,
penalize the coaches, penalize the administration? With that said as
a high school coach I will say that the ultimate responsibility of eligibility
lies with the head coach and not the AD. Any question at all dealing with
eligibility and the athlete sits. No question at all. Coach Matich didn't
do his due diligence. And the athletes and their parents who were involved
should be ashamed. They have forgotten that their first responsibility is to
just go to school.
Ok you fine both school 7500 total where does that money go?( a Xmas Party) Why
not rent Utah State and have a double header Mtn Crest and Logan Both have Home
Not good for the integrity of the sport, 120 "innocent" student athletes
excepted. Next stop, Bingham and Cottonwood.
Logan's coach Favero is right...this is about the integrity of high school
sports in the state of Utah. Match needs to show integrity and resign,
especially after Kathy Butler did so. Coaches have their responsibility in the
eligibility process and he needs to take his portion of responsibility. East
principal Sagers signed his name to documents that stated all listed players
were eligible. I guess a case could be made for him resigning as well. This
would show the state that those who had responsibility, took the consequences
for their actions. That would show the players that it doesn't pay to be
dishonest. Meanwhile, get the process fixed so this doesn't happen again!
UHSAA needs to take responsibility for this immediately!
So Timpview takes a forfeit for each game where an ineligible player played but
East does not... Were East's players less ineligible than Timpviews
player???Is that possible? What gives? Am I living in a parallel
It's ironic they said they wanted to treat them like snow canyon, because
they didn't. They made snow canyon forfeit every game they used an
ineligible player in. That's why the best baseball team in the state was a
4 seed in the tournament. Not becausethre the UHSAA "treated them" in
any special manner. I'm fine that East is in, but they should be in the
spot they earned or out. Don't mess integrity of the entire tournament.
Terrible decision - why didn't they just go along with the region decisions
The UHSAA can order games be forfeited, but it can not change the quality of the
teams. Letting the top ranked team come in at the #4 position upsets the entire
seeking process. This will be remembered not so much for the lack of oversight
by East, but by the way the UHSAA decision affected the playoffs. Now we know
why the rule reads "may forfeit". By overruling the regional decisions
and requiring forfeitures at all costs shreds the seeding process meant to
assure the top teams meet in the finals.
DiamondDad- I dont think many people in Herriman are upset about playing East.
Infact, the few I know there say "bring it on." But you have to admit
this decision is quite a stretch. I mean, how often does a #1 seed have to play
a #1 team because someone forgot to do the paperwork?
A little relatively unknown side story. Four years ago several students at
Provo HS changed their attendance. Back then attendance was tied to academic
grades, this is no longer actually the case but it was at this time. Several of
the students were athletes including two baseball players. They actually earned
or had high enough percentages to earn academic credit but since the changed
their attendance they received a no grade in two classes, making them ineligible
according to UHSAA rules. The two played very sparingly in two region games.
The region met and made Provo forfeit these two games. The coaches and
administrators supported that decision and took it no further. In this case the
rest of the players nor the administrators, coaches or athletic director had
knowledge of these kids actions until the scandal broke. So everyone was
"innocent" except the players involved, who again by the way would
actually received academic credit based on Provo School Districts recent
decision on tying attendance to academic grades. Bottom line, it seems that
East got off easy while Timpview, Snow Canyon and Provo here got worked over by
What a joke! I felt terrible for the kids at East, but like many have said, the
rules were broken. End of story. I would be ok with this decision if there were
not other cases (example: Snow Canyon baseball) where the written rules were
enforced. You play ineligible kids, you forfeit the games they played in. Pretty
clear to me. Why do we even have rules if they don't get enforced? Poor
outcome in my opinion that now results in a lot of gray area and more problems
to come. Good luck to all teams in the playoffs. I agree with JParkerfan from
St. George: UHSAA=Double Standard.
This road to a state championship is simple and fair for everyone. Win four
games (five for East or MV) and you are champions! Who cares who has tough first
round match ups. You are going to have to beat some very good teams at some
point in time to take state. By the way, East, at 8-1, has the most unfair path.
Clearly a one seed, they have a road play in game, then possibly a road game
against a one seed. Hmmmm. It would be an amazing accomplishment for East to
regroup after this crap and win five games in a row.
The Snow Canyon comparison is interesting. I wonder if East High supporters had
more access to the UHSAA than Snow Canyon did. The inconsistencies with the
UHSAA are unbelievable.
It's pretty simple. East broke the rule(s) or they didnt. If they did, they
should be penalized. If they didn't, they should be placed in the bracket
as though nothing is wrong. The other teams can deal with the idea that maybe
there was cheating or maybe their wasnt. What they cant deal with is a decision
that gives a greater advantage than actually having to play the games. Instead of being unfair to one team, UHSAA managed to make it unfair for
EVERYONE. The implications of this decision are bigger that just one
game or playoff round. This shows just how incapable the UHSAA is at doing the
job they are supposed to doing in the first place.
Ok people, please chill! Herriman won A LUCKY ( unlucky) coin flip to be the #1
seed. So what if they have to play East. It was determined by LUCK. Besides,
would Herriman rather play East at home or at RES? To be the best, you need to
beat the best. Quit whining!!
The UHSAA is a joke and a sham. Who is this person trying to equate East and
Snow Canyon? SC forfeited all games and had to win out just to go to state as
the 4th seed. If you make your case that inelligible players = forfeited wins,
then stick to it. Don't make yourselves look foolish by having a double
Not a good decision...a WIN-LOSE. Win for East, lose for Cyprus. Win for TV,
lose for Salem Hills and Springville. More kids get hurt by UHSAA decision than
if they would have stuck with their first decision...the REALLY innocent ones.
Shame on East, shame on UHSAA!
Do you really think the East High coaches ans players did't know who on
their team had played at a previos high school ? The kids know!!! East got
away with cheating! Shame on everyone at East! How are the rest of us suppose
to teach our children! Just say'n!
So has anyone considered Salem Hills and Springville and their right to have a
chance to compete at state? They were the biggest losers in this debacle...
So let me get this straight, the two schools that got the most punished were
Springville and Salem Hills who got eliminated from their chance to compete for
a playoff chance because they were unlucky enough to play Timpview later in the
season.Then there is Herriman who by winning their region gets to
play East, who let's face it might still be the best team in the state.Then there is Box Elder who instead of playing Orem, a proven inferior
team to TImpview, now gets to play Timpview.Is there no wonder
people have lost faith in the UHSAA as legitimate organization to protect the
integrity of high school athletics.What do East and get Timpview get
as result of breaking the rules, a slap on the wrist while four other schools
become collateral damage with two losing their right or chance to compete in the
tournament so East's could be restored.Give me a break, what a
FAIR????? Cheating and getting away with it is NOT fair!
This is unfair to Timpview. You play an ineligible kid in a game, you forfeit
that game! Leave it to the UHSAA to not uphold their own rules...
In an attempt to save face, UHSAA backs down on it's unreasonable
suspension of East High from the playoff's but slaps the coach with an
equally unreasonable suspension and a large fine that will, no doubt, be borne
by Taxpayers.Why can't people just admit it when they are WRONG
and reverse their decision instead of trying to justify their stupidity?
What a Joke! Im happy to see that the kids get to play, it wasn't there
fault. The Coach should be out for all of this year and next year. I have
friends that are high school coaches in the valley and when I have talked to
them about the situation they and me put it all on the coach. He knows the rules
and he played the players. When they have a transfer player come in they have
them turn in all the paper work to the UHSAA, then when the player says he is
cleared the coach calls the UHSAA and verifies that they are good. 4 coaches in
the valley told me the same thing. It was nice of the AD to try to take the
blame and save the season. THE COACH CHEATED and he knew it!
By dropping them to fourth you just punished another team that deserved a much
easier draw for a first game. I would be way upset if I placed first expecting
a good draw and then a top seated team that should be disqualified for cheating
gets dropped down to face us in the first round. If the adults were to blame
then the UHSAA should have left the seeds alone and not punished anymore
On the one hand I'm glad that the innocent players on East's team will
get a chance to play in the playoffs, but how is it fair to let them keep
victories over other teams when they used ineligible players? Four good players
can make a difference.
Why did Timpview have to forfeit when East didn't?That's a
joke. Then they just plug em in the playoffs as a 4th seed East?Take out the crying and emotion out....Someone explain to me
factually how Easts decision is overturned and Timpviews isn't?It's factual. Both punished or both acquitted. (Obviously the Timpview
principal doesn't care and didn't fight for his team like the East
principal) but besides that....explain please.
How is it fair to penalize Logan and Herriman due to the failings of East and
Timpview? Logan and Herriman played a great season and should have easier
Ironic that Matich's first comment to the press is, "of course
it's fair, because now my boys get to play"! All Cyprus did was play by
the rules, with players from Magna, get told you're out, you're in, no
wait now you're back out again, sorry for making you think the rules were
for everyone, we forgot, you're not ranked high enough. @IRS,
spoken like a TRUE IRS agent, hey if you don't get convicted, your totally
innocent!The problem here isn't East's AD or Coach, or
Cyprus and the handful of others that play with their own kids, the real problem
is the UHSAA not policing the recruiting that requires the bogus paperwork to be
filed in the first place. Hats off for now to Cottonwood, Herriman, Timpview,
Skyline, Bingham and the rest for properly filing the phony paperwork properly,
it makes it much easier for the UHSAA to look the other way when you fake it
Quit crying! You got what you wanted! The UHSAA made a big mistake!
Shocked! A terrible situation is now made MUCH worse. This is a terrible
precedence that will create havoc for years to come. No one wanted to see East
not play but ADULTS understood why they couldn't. UHSAA made up rules as
they went...everyday depended on who cried the hardest. Now it is
Herriman's turn to file a complaint. Herriman got robbed if they have to
play East in first game. Herriman worked hard to earn a #1 seed which has the
HUGE reward of playing a #4 seed in the first game. Who cares if the head coach
has to sit out a few games...their job is mostly over when the game starts and
the assistants take over.
Sounds fair from what I can see and from what little I know. Best is that the
kids get to play. They did not not make the mistake. So looks like someone is
looking out for the boys and not just the issue.
It looks to me like the right people are going to be punished, and not the kids
who did nothing wrong. Afterall, it is about the kids, right? Or is this somehow
offensive to us older folks who have nothing to do with the games, and
can't get beyond our "glory days" when we were in high school. For those other schools that are upset that East is back in the
playoffs, can you really call yourselves the best, if East isn't allowed to
compete? If the ineligible players can't play in the playoffs, then if you
truly are a better team, you shouldn't have any trouble beating them
(without all those amazing players they used to get to the playoffs). Right?