Comments about ‘Growing number of 'nones' seen as bad, good and fixable’

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Published: Tuesday, Oct. 16 2012 7:00 a.m. MDT

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Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

A Scientist,

I don't take it personally. But such a lack of respect demonstrates some less than desirable qualities.

I have known many scientists and other top thinkers in both industry and academia who either are religious themselves or who can at least find a way to respect those with whom they disagree. They include MacArthur Fellows. Others (whom I do not know personally) include Nobel Prize winners.

Perhaps you are smarter than they are. But I doubt it.

Respect is a type of humility. And humility is the beginning of wisdom.

Rynn
Las Vegas, NV

Why can't we just agree to disagree?
Some people have religion in their lives and they are happy with it.
Some people don't have religion in their lives and they are happy without it.

Instead of trying to convince each other that it's better to have religion or convince each other that it's better to not have religion...just live and let live.

Joggle
Big Island, HI

Good point Rynn--well said, but with that being said--my experience and observation tells me that religious believers tend to want to "spread the word" because their religion encourages it---like nobody knows! They tend to take any opportunity to do so. My experience is that non-believers will listen to religious ideas and concepts because most examine religious belief anyway in their search for knowledge, but often believers simply do not want the beliefs they are expressing challenged. Non-believers are made to feel they can't express their beliefs to these people. They turn a deaf ear! In fact, every human belief should be challenged. Religions should be challenged, because the truth can withstand questioning. Although science doesn't have all the answers religions often fall apart when questioned. The mortal enemy of faith is knowledge, a scientific fact that has been demonstrated by researchers at the University of British Columbia. The basis of any religion is that you must believe something someone else tells you is true, even though your mind tells you it is a lie or it makes no sense. As knowledge is gained---religious belief will have less and less room to grow.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Joggle,

Exactly. That is precisely why you do not see folks in the top echelons of the church with any advanced degrees, or from academia, or anyone who has ever studied medicine or the sciences . . .

Come on. This science vs. religion thing is just ridiculous and benefits neither side.

BTW, in the LDS church, activity is generally positively correlated with education.

Candide
Salt Lake City, UT

Twin Lights:
There is a difference between respecting an individual and respecting a belief. I respect you and believe that you have every right to believe what you want. However, the beliefs of all people should be questioned and not be considered something that is off limits for discussion. Galileo was jailed for questioning the religious belief that the Earth was the center of the universe. Some people believed that the Earth was flat. If you believe something that is demonstrably false I am going to let you know that there is evidence to the contrary. Putting out information that counters or questions your belief is not religious persecution. I am sorry, but if the emperor has no clothes I am going to point and laugh.

The Scientist
Provo, UT

Rynn wrote:

"Why can't we just agree to disagree? ...Instead of trying to convince each other that it's better to have religion or convince each other that it's better to not have religion...just live and let live."

That would be nice.

But "live and let live" is actually a secular philosophy, not found in the Christian religion.

Mark 16:15-16:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

If Christians take their religion seriously, they are commanded to NOT leave us alone, and then we are dehumanized and condemned if we don't believe.

Christianity preaches that we - the nonbelievers - will be completely destroyed: wiped off the face of the earth (exterminated) in the end of times!

As you can imagine, that bothers us a little.

So choose: either "live and let live" OR Christianity, but you cannot live both.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Candide,

I think you are splitting hairs. How can you respect an individual and not have any respect for his or her beliefs? Not to say you acknowledge their beliefs as true, but simply demonstrating simple respect?

I am pretty sure neither you nor I are emperors, And how does pointing and laughing ever figure into respect?

Sorry, but I think what you are saying is much like those who say they will forgive but not forget. They are doing neither.

And I don't think you can factually demonstrate that God is a false concept.

Mormoncowboy
Provo, Ut

There is fundamental misunderstanding of terms here. What is "science" that it can answer or not answer questions? When people try and split hairs over scientific epistemology vs religious epistemology, I wonder how much they actually understand science. At it's core "science" is a method, and necessarilly the sum our conclusions or laws from that method. That method is simply "observation". Sure there is more to it than that, but we can widdle the "more" part down to method's of observation that increase the rigor and objectivity of observation. In other words, when some suggest that there are spiritual realities that cannot be assessed by science, I have to ask why? To me it is a concession from the spiritual believer that they hold to a world-view based on thing's they cannot or have not observed.

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