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Published: Thursday, Oct. 11 2012 10:30 p.m. MDT

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ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

As I remember, the current President did give a time table for getting unemployment down to the magic mark. It never happened any where close to that time frame. And now, to criticize Ryan for not giving a specific date for getting unemployment below 6 percent? The fact of the matter is, the government can't create the jobs to reach that point. All they can actually do is stop keeping the legitimate job creation machine from reaching that point and they have certainly done all they could to keep real jobs from being created.

We can take punches and jabs all we want at people for their opinions regarding the world, but that is just it - it is there opinion from their perspective and that on its own should have merit. No two people see things exactly the same and if they think Ryan was a joke or if they think Biden was rude - that is their perspective and that is what candidates must confront - that people across this nation all see it differently.

JWB
Kaysville, UT

Last night was a disgrace to see the number two most powerful elected official in the world to show that kind of diplomacy and relationship with his opponent. Biden showed the world his kind of nature to give his testimony about his religion and in the same breath show that he is totally behind killing innocent, unborn and perfect children. I don't know how he can go to bed at night.

It is that kind of hardness that showed when he talked about their responsibility for protecting our border and embassy personnel. What a lack of character and integrity.

He could not show or talk about anything this administration accomplished in four years that is a positive statement. If you don't move forward with policies, actions and accomplishments, we move backward as our nation isn't stagnant it is a moving force.

I realized that this administration has moved to Hollywood in style and actions. The VP read from his script with no deviations or face the wrath of the famous producer of fiction for our people to see on the big screen, last night.

Reaity is what our people need, no fiction. Our enemies won last night.

nick
Provo, UT

Vice Presidential debates are almost always forgettable. However, this debate will go down in history as the "Great Smirk Debate." People will remember that Joe Biden was a jerk.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

"Joe Biden nailed it! To those who say he was rude and condescending, go watch Mitt Romney's performance again."

Romney wasn't a spectacle of eye-rolling, hand gestures, snorts, "malarky", Cheshire cat giggles and inappropriate laughter: Biden was.

There is absolutely no correlation between Biden and Romney - desperate sore losers simply want to taint Romney with their own dirt.

djk
blue springs, MO

first off the commentator was rude and did not treat ryan with respect but yet she gave respect to biden. second biden was rude, childish, unkind, etc... the faces he pulled showed he does not really know what he is doing and could not really respond with maturity and knowledge. ryan was articulate, kind, intelligent. i hope the country can see that IF obama and biden are reelected (hoping not) that the country sees if obama is not alive or cannot finish biden will be the leader. i remember johnson becoming president when kennedy was murdered and our country suffered in so many ways. please people see what kind of man biden is NOT and what kind of man ryan IS.

JWB
Kaysville, UT

In a debate such as last night, the judges are you and me and the pundits.

With the spinning that has gone on for 4-years and with the dismal performance of our nation, people can debate the debate and it all depends on what the definition of "is" is.

Integrity is supposed to be the primary job of our President and his VP. We are supposed to trust that they are doing what we wanted in 4 years of Hope and Change.

There is no way we are better, overall. Significant bills passed in Congress and signed by the President haven't happened from the budget on down. If a President can't show success, the people should not vote for that administration, again, just hoping that it will happen this time. We elect a President for 4-years, not 8-years. Thank goodness. To vote for a person again just to let them finish what they started without showing positive results would be a crime for those that only vote for a 4-year President.

The Constitution doesn't promise 8-years to a person. Four years is enough when failure is imminent for failing ideas. Go USA.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

Ulvegaard: Then why doesn't he just say he doesn't know? Just answer the question honestly. Instead, he spouts of rhetoric, ignoring the question.

fresnogirl
Fresno, CA

Katiebugg:

I had a very similar experience with my female friends. The men seem split, like you said, down party lines, but the women do NOT like Joe (or at least this latest version of Joe).

I wonder if this will impact the female vote at all. I don't know if the VP debates have much effect on voting, but I do know that Obama lost 8 points here in California (of all places) and cut his lead from 22 points to 14 points. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the debate, the intensely high poverty levels here, or the crazy gas gouging that's been happening here. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Mad Hatter
Provo, UT

Reading this thread only confirms that most people already had their position set before the debate took place. Conservatives liked Paul Ryan and disliked Joe Biden.'s performance Liberals liked Joe Biden and disliked Paul Ryan's performance. It was strictly along partisan lines. So nothing new can be learned by people's opinions here.

What is very evident is the amount of space dedicated to condeming Biden for his manner and attitude. However, those not familar with debate skills, one doesn't sit like a lump on a log and passively listen when the opponent says things which you believe to be false. It is one thing to debate an issue with facts, but something else when smoke gets blown and misinformation is introduced to confuse and manipulate.

Nonetheless, the central point here is that all the opinions expressed were set in stone long before the debate happened. Those who did not like a particular candidate were more than ready to castigate that candidate once the debate had concluded. And this extends to how one is voting. A Romney supporter cannot acknowledge an Obama supporter's position and vice versa. This says a lot about the nation today!

Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena
Provo, UT

What does it matter what the news stories say about the debates when people usually listen in order to get confirmation of their bias. Those people who prefer one candidate over the other will go in favoring that candidate and come out having their favortism confirmed. So it was with last night's debate. Those who loved Paul Ryan said he could do no wrong and their viewing only confirmed that in their mind. The same could be said about Joe Biden.

However, those same people who wanted Ryan to "win" remained hostile to Biden and looked for ways to criticize him irrespective of his performance and/or knowledge. Half the Republican conclusion regarding the debate before the debate even occurred. The Republicans already decided what they were going to say in general about Joe Biden and what they were going to say about Paul Ryan. They only had to add the finishing touches which they did by emphasizing style and body language.

It doesn't matter. Conservatives will continue to vilify Joe Biden because it is not in their interests to understand the dynamics of of the discussion.

wrz
Ogden, UT

Joe Biden summed up the solution to our economic problems in one simple three-letter word... JOBS.

What Ever
Salt Lake City,, UT

I don't understand the comments posted that are so forgiving of Mr. Biden's behavior. To brush the laughing, the eye rolling, the smirks off to a reaction to Mr. Ryan's comments is ridiculous. Is this how he reacts to an opinion he disagrees with?! If he is in a meeting with other world leaders and they say something he disagrees with does he go into this same routine? We are all in serious trouble if this is acceptable behavior from someone with a title as important as Mr. Biden's. If this was a debate even on a high school level, that behavior would not be tolerated, but the Vice President of America gets a free pass because he was reacting to "Lyin Ryan". I don't understand the logic.

Bifftacular
Spanish Fork, Ut

The Obama team is truly desperate. How else to explain Biden's performance? (And I mean performance in every sense of the word). I've been in business for 25 years, sat in countless meetings, presentations, and conversations, I've heard some stuff that I didn't agree with and even stuff that was a bit outlandish but I've NEVER seen someone treat another person's ideas or presentation the way Biden did - not even close. I can't believe that some debate professional actually coached Biden to be that way because I can almost guarantee his insulting smirking is going to turn off voters. And to think that guy is one heart beat away from being our president!! Scary.

Ying Fah
Provo, UT

Did Paul Ryan really advocate starting a war with Iran? He may not have said it in so many words, but it certainly sounded like he wanted to expand American military power into both Syria and Iran.

He said that America is perceived of as weak? By whom? You don't just bomb somebody to show them how tough you are. And he wants to stay in Afganistan beyond the established end date. Does he expect young men and young women to continue fighting after our allies are gone? For someone who did not serve when he could have, for a presidential candidate who did not serve when he was such a strong supporter of war, it is only typical that they want to send others to do the fighting where they know nothing of war and death.

Republicans want to honor the troops when they go off to war, but where are they when these military veterans need help after they come home? Why did Republican's say we could not afford the jobs bill to help veterans wheh they say that we will do anything for our veterans?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@JWB
"Biden showed the world his kind of nature to give his testimony about his religion and in the same breath show that he is totally behind killing innocent, unborn and perfect children. "

I don't see what's wrong with not wanting a Catholic version of Sharia law to rule the nation which is what Bidens' position essentially boils down to...

@Counter Intelligence
"desperate sore losers simply want to taint Romney with their own dirt."

Sore losers want to focus more on smirks than the total substantive smackdown Biden laid, fact-checking Ryan on the spot. Regardless, as many have noted already, VP debates don't really move much in polling. Their primary use is with regards to motivating turnout in the base, and Biden accomplished that and then some. Democrats absolutely loved it and are re-energized.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@What Ever
"I don't understand the comments posted that are so forgiving of Mr. Biden's behavior. To brush the laughing, the eye rolling, the smirks off to a reaction to Mr. Ryan's comments is ridiculous. "

I'll admit he went a bit overboard with it, but lies should be met with contempt and ridicule.

@Bifftacular
"I can't believe that some debate professional actually coached Biden to be that way because I can almost guarantee his insulting smirking is going to turn off voters. "

A CNN poll of registered voters who viewed the debate had Ryan win the debate 48-44. A CBS poll of undecided viewers (the more important category of course) who viewed the debate had Biden winning 57-39.

wrz
Ogden, UT

@Craig Clark:

"Grow up, is my advice to the critics of Biden for smiling or making faces as some are putting it."

Biden is the person who needs to grow up. Adults don't make faces while another is talking. Children do.

"That unavoidably makes both candidates simultaneous players at all times."

In the real world presidents and veeps are players all the time.

"In movie making, they call that stealing the scene."

The debate was not movie making. It was real life. I suppose Joe would have appreciated a 'retake' after his dismal and childish conduct. Ryan looked, acted, and sounded like the adult in the room.

@Hutterite:

"Nobody's mind was changed in Utah last night."

Perhaps. But there were thousands and perhaps millions of people whose mind was changed around the country... from a Biden to a Ryan supporter.

@xscribe:

"When will Romney/Ryan get unemployment under 6 percent? Why won't they answer the question?"

No politician has a crystal ball they can gaze into for such answers. What Ryan knows for sure is that you can't create jobs without investments and that taxes reduce the amount of investment capital available.

MapleDon
Springville, UT

Looks like the hate-filled leftists are out in droves today applauding Ol' Joe who showed himself to be disrespectful, rude, and anything but a likeable guy. And all of you claiming Ryan's lies ought to research a few things (and provide evidence of your claims).

First, the State Department already discredited Ol' Joe regarding the attack on 9/11 in Libya.

Second, Ol' Joe did vote for the two wars he claimed he voted against.

Shall I go on?

If you're on the government dole, dislike America, or want us to continue forward in the direction of national destruction (similar to Greece), I can understand your support for Obama. Otherwise, this election is quite clear.

VST
Bountiful, UT

Smokin Joe "scratched the itch" of the Democrat base. Good for him. They feel better now.

But he very likely did not move the needle one inch for persuading the Independents to vote for Obama-Biden, who are the ones that will ultimately decide who wins this election.
[Re: See morpunkt's comment above]

Alfred
Ogden, UT

@A Scientist:

"If life begins at conception, why would a life created by rape, incest, or an infant's life that threatened the life of the mother - why would these lives be less worthy of protection?"

Unwanted pregnancies from rape and incest are forced. A woman shouldn't be required live with that constant, daily reminder of that horror and trauma all her life.

"Is it the child's fault it was conceived in a way the Republicans do not approve?"

What about the Democrats' position? Democrats want that all unborn should be subject to abortion at the whim of the mother... as a birth control procedure... at taxpayer expense... even if the infant is partially born (partial birth abortion).

"If Mitt Romney wants to alleviate concerns that he will NOT take his orders from the Mormon headquarters in Salt Lake City, adopting the Church's stand on abortion - verbatim - is NOT the way to do it."

Nice try... insisting that Mitt abandon his position on abortion simply because it aligns with his church's position... You must be a true-blue Democrat... laying traps for Mitt to be criticized regardless of which way he turns.

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