the polls are most certainly NOT tied. The post debate polls are still coming
out and I suspect Mitt will average about a 5 point lead over all when the dust
settles. People need to really listen to BO now - pay attention to what he says
and not how he says it. BO is all about style with zero substance and his media
will doing everything in their power to prop him up as well. Pathetic.
what has become so disappointing about this process is how it has revealed
certain things about people I really wish had stayed hidden. One of the primary
disappointments is not with the candidates themselves, but the behavior of those
who support candidates. The ease and willingness to say things that in any
other circumstances would not be said about other people shows a very clear
degradation and acceleration of societies march toward the gutter. The second was my false expectation that my fellow LDS would conduct
themselves in ways different than those who were not LDS. From Reed's
unsupported politically driven claims to Romney's say what ever it takes to
what ever audience shows that the whole "honest in all my dealings'
part of the interview is rather hollow. Back to the shift in the
pools.... I like Romney's new and improved positioning. It shows old guard
Republicans are back driving the bus. It that stays true and honest, I would
have no problem supporting that crowd. But if this is just a respect from the
Tea Party war crowd... I am not interested. Lets see which Romney we really
have... if there is a real Romney.
Here's a few more Romney lies...I noticed after issuing the challenge
to name even one lie, the challengers fell mysteriously silent, as more and more
of mits lies are revealed.“I think about half of [the green
firms Obama invested in], of the ones have been invested in have gone out of
business. A number of them happened to be owned by people who were contributors
to your campaigns.” As of late last year, only “three
out of the 26 recipients of 1705 loan guarantees have filed for bankruptcy.“Mr. President, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has
happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your
administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half.” Oil production from federal lands is higher, not lower: Production from
federal lands is up slightly in 2011 when compared to 2007. And the oil and gas
industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, that it hasn’t
begun exploring or developing.DSB said: "Everything you
referenced as lies are merely standard Democratic spin"That's
funny, Facts aren't spin.
@Atl134:Everything you referenced as lies are merely standard
Democratic spin on Romney's claims, to make Romney's claims look like
lies because of their made-up assumptions. I'd say that's not very
honest of you. Most dishonest spin - #5: that Romney claimed closing
loopholes alone would pay for his tax plan. Romney has never said that closing
loopholes alone would overcome revenue differences. He cited several ways that
revenue would be generated, including through receipt of vastly increased tax
revenues from newly hired people and those who earn higher pay in a resurgent
economy. It's not a lie by any stretch, even if it represents a plan that
you don't believe will succeed. Calling it a lie is... a lie.You accuse Romney of lying, but then to support yourself you spout opinions
and make dishonest claims. That's very consistent with the Obama
team's talking points.
Mountanman Hayden, ID "The Democrat's strategy is to try to
assassinate the character of your opponent, not run on your own merits!" Considering the source of this comment and the level of Birther
nonsense we've had to contend with for the past 3 1/2 years, one wonders
what it must be like to live in an alternate reality. As Jon Stewart
said, there is both great height and great depth to (The Republican) Mountain.
re:Uteanymous, Riverton CougarYou provided no sources, no evidence to
support your rebuttal. Healthcare Timeline(CNN)April
21, 2009 -- Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus and Ranking Member
Chuck Grassley hold the first of three roundtables bringing together health
policy and industry experts to discuss the development of health care reform
legislation.July 15, 2009 -- The Senate's Health, Education,
Labor and Pensions Committee passes The Affordable Health Choices Act. The
bipartisan bill includes more than 160 Republican amendments accepted during the
month-long mark-up, one of the longest in Congressional history.October 13, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus'
landmark health reform bill, the America's Healthy Future Act.From CS Monitor 8/2009:Four out of five committees of jurisdiction have
completed work on an overhaul of the US healthcare system -- three in the House,
one in the Senate. But the endgame for healthcare reform still turns
on six bipartisan negotiators on the Senate Finance Committee -- and the army of
interest groups invited in or out of the cone of silence.The "gang of
six" members are: Senators: Baucus D-MT, Conrad D-ND, Bingaman R-NM,
Grassley R-IA, Snowe R-ME, Enzi R-WY.
This race shouldn't even be close.
re:Uteanymous, Riverton CougarYou provide no sources, no evidence for your
assertions.Healthcare Timeline(CNN)April 21, 2009 --
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus and Ranking Member Chuck Grassley
hold the first of three roundtables bringing together health policy and industry
experts to discuss the development of health care reform legislation.July 15, 2009 -- The Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions
Committee passes The Affordable Health Choices Act. The bipartisan bill includes
more than 160 Republican amendments accepted during the month-long mark-up, one
of the longest in Congressional history.October 13, 2009 -- The
Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus' landmark health reform bill, the
America's Healthy Future Act.From CS Monitor 8/2009:Four
out of five committees of jurisdiction have completed work on an overhaul of the
US healthcare system -- three in the House, one in the Senate. But
the endgame for healthcare reform still turns on six bipartisan negotiators on
the Senate Finance Committee -- and the army of interest groups invited in or
out of the cone of silence.The "gang of six" members are:
Senators: Baucus D-MT, Conrad D-ND, Bingaman R-NM, Grassley R-IA, Snowe R-ME,
The first comment I read was about Obama being an "empty suit." What I
think really happened is that Obama left his suit home, because he looked for
all the world on that debate stage like the emperor who had no clothes. How
embarrassing.Anyway, nice to see the two go head-to-head. It was
pretty clear who won the debate, and who would do the better job as president.
70 million viewers saw that for themselves, unfiltered by mainstream media
@patsyPolls?The Right-Wing does not believe in
polls...That was yesterday?Exactly.The daily
operative question next to what's the weather today, is...what's Which Romney's position... today?
Can you say "Hillary 2016!!!. Regardless of the outcome, soon after the
election is over it will be nothing but Hillary speculation. If Obama is
re-elected the mood of the country won't be so great for another democrat.
@patriot"Name the Romney "gross lies". "1. His
claim that he won't lower taxes on the wealthy. (Has repeatedly said that
job-creators are overburdened with taxation).2. His claim that he
won't increase taxes on the poor. (Has repeatedly said that we need to
broaden the tax base which means people at the bottom, the 47% in particular,
would pay more). 3. His claim that he won't change anything related
to Medicare for current beneficiaries (getting rid of Obamacare would re-open
the donut hole).4. His claim that getting rid of Obamacare is part of a
deficit reduction plan (since he's not keeping the Medicare cuts or tax
increases in Obamacare, a total repeal according to the CBO increases the
deficit).5. His claim that closing tax loopholes on the rich would pay for
his otherwise nearly 5 trillion dollar tax plan making it budget neutral (google
"factcheck romney impossible tax promise", closing all such loopholes,
and it's highly skeptical that he even would, would not be enough to pay
for the bill, which probably explains why he doesn't detail which loopholes
the polls are NOT tied. The post debate poll numbers don't come out until
Thursday for Rasmussen. Expect Mitt to get another nice bump on Thursday.
I wouldn't think the far right would even care about the polls. Remember
they are biased, they don't count the right numbers, they don't ask
questions the right way etc. etc. Mr. Romney won the debate hands down, give
him kudos for that. The funny thing is he ran away from the far
right and suddenly became a moderate. Whether he lied or told the truth only
Mr. Romney knows the answer to that question. The bottom line is he looked like
a moderate and talked like a moderate. America is CENTER right, not far right.
The things that Mr. Romney said appeal to the CENTER right. The
question is would you bet $10,000 that what he said is what he believes and what
he intends to do as President? I am one of those CENTER right people, who is
not sure I believe him. I am not sure I don't believe him, I am just not
sure. The problem Mr. Romney has is Americans will walk into the
voting booth not knowing which Mr. Romney they are voting for which may lead
them to vote for the President who they do know.
ute alumni Tengoku, UTJust love the zingers you come up with. Such
wit! "Empty suit". Classic!
TruthseekerYour story of Republican participation in the health care
debate is a complete fantasy, but it's obvious you've got a reliable
source of Democratic talking points at your disposal.
Hi atl134,You speak of "gross lying", but do you remember
that one tax study that President Obama keeps citing as "proof" that
Romney's tax plan won't work (even though every other study makes the
opposite claims)?Here's what the author of the study, Princeton
economist Harvey Rosen, said in response:"I can’t tell
exactly how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work. It
might be that they assume that Governor Romney wants to keep the taxes from the
Affordable Care Act in place, despite the fact that the Governor has called for
its complete repeal. The main conclusion of my study is that under plausible
assumptions, a proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be
revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on taxpayers with incomes above
$200,000 about the same. That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and
middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan
re:patriotName just one lie told by Romney? Here's
one:"In one year, (Obama) provided $90 billion in breaks to the green
energy world … into solar and wind, to Solyndra and Fisker and Tesla and
Ener1." #1 The money ($90b) would've been distributed over
longer than one year.#2 That $90 billion, as described (in a report
provided by the Romney campaign), wasn’t provided in one year,
wasn’t distributed primarily via tax breaks, wasn’t primarily
provided directly to companies, wasn’t primarily spent on solar and wind,
and wasn’t spent at all on Fisker or Tesla.More than 60% of it
was directed to state/local governments/utility companies for energy efficiency,
transportation and electrical infrastructure.And another:"Obama doubled the deficit"Facts:The final CBO
baseline deficit projection before Obama took office showed a fiscal year 2009
deficit of $1.19 trillion. CBO projects that for fiscal 2012 the fiscal 2012
deficit will be $1.09 trillion.
I can't wait to see what good 'Ol Joe Biden has to say in the Vice
Presidential debate. He is a loose cannon and I bet the democrats are shaking
in their boots. The next presidential debate should be great to
watch as well.
For a more granular look at the predicted results from a team with an enviable
track record, go to colorado dot edu, scroll down under news headlines to
"Updated election forecasting model." The University of Colorado model
examines electoral votes based on state-by-state data. They are predicting 330
electoral votes for Romney, 209 for President Obama (270 required to win). The
model has been consistently accurate in the past.
Can anyone who watched the debate really say Obama is a leader or presidential?
Without his teleprompter to spew out lines, he truly is empty. At times I almost
felt sorry for him. Almost....but was amazed at his vigor once his
teleprompter was re-connected and he didn't have to "face" his
re:atl134Here is some questions for you. Name the Romney "gross
lies". Name one. Name anything. Hard to name the lies when there
WEREN'T any lies. Secondly IF Romney was such a terrible liar how bad does
it look for Obama to NOT even recognize the lies and be able to rebut
them...during the debate? All Barack did was look down like a lost child (minus
his teleprompter). Finally, how exactly does Barack "game plan" for
Romney's lies? This is absurd and you know it. The bottom line here is
this..1. Obama was clueless - defending his OWN policies and
rebutting Romneys. This had nothing to do with lies - this had EVERYTHING to do
with Obama being EXPOSED for the first time in his life with no teleprompter and
no lap dog media to bail him out. Obama has NO IDEA how things work unless his
teleprompter tells him. So who is the REAL actor here???2. It is one thing
to say someone is lying. It is another to actually define the lie in detail.
From where I was setting during the debate it was ROMNEY that rebutting all of
Obama's lies!! OBAMA EXPOSED!
It's interesting hpw polls make a difference when your guy's numbers
have improved. Also, there is the contrast in how those who once blamed the
"main stream media" and polling organizations see everything differently
when they have positive stories by the same news organization.Ah,
@TruthseekerDoes your revisionist version of the healthcare ordeal
also include the American people uniting in strong support of the bill as well?
And in your revisionist version of the events, did Obama post it online for all
to see for 5 days and consider input before signing it? Did Pelosi and others
read the whole thing and "find out what's in it" BEFORE signing the
bill?I thought so. No matter how you spin it, the manner in which
Obama passed Obamacare will forever be a black mark on his record.
@patriot"It's akin to getting thumped 42-0 in a football game and
then crying afterwords saying the other team cheated - somehow."Oh, so it's like losing 54-10... okay so by BYU fan standards I can say
Obama's debate loss was a fluke or not a result of Romney winning but Obama
not trying. Actually I shouldn't do that because odds are Obama will win
one of the other two debates now that he can gameplan for Romney's gross
lying."Get ready for Romney hates children and Romney lied about
everything in the debate (never mind no specifics given)."Romney
said his plan helps those with pre-existing conditions. This is deceptive since
it only protects those with continuing coverage. Romney said his plan
doesn't lower taxes for the rich (but he thinks they're overburdened
with taxes) nor raise taxes for the poor (but he thinks they'd too
dependent on gov't handouts and is clearly not fond of 47% not paying
income taxes). Romney thinks a deficit reduction plan is to repeal Obamacare
(repeal increases the deficit, CBO analysis) and getting rid of Big Bird, while
increasing defense spending.
@Mountanman"The Democrat’s strategy is to try to assassinate the
character of your opponent, not run on your own merits!"I'm
pretty sure more Obama voters are pro-Obama rather than anti-Romney than Romney
supporters are pro-Romney rather than anti-Obama. That's why there's a
favorability gap in favor of Obama.
@ute alumni"it appears to be a no brainer, who could get behind the
empty suit know as barry obama?"Obama's the empty suit?
Romney's a madlibs policy platform. Just insert whether or not he wants to
ban all abortions (has supported the normal exemptions, but has supported a
Personhood Amendment), cut taxes on the rich (he says they're overburdened
with taxes, in the debate he said he wouldn't cut their taxes), increase
taxes on the bottom (he says they're dependent on gov't, the 47%, and
that we need to broaden the tax base, in the debate he said he wouldn't
increase their taxes), and well... you get the picture.
@LSC "DUCKS Rule!!!!!"At least we agree on something.My prediction for the next debate: Obama will be coached to "be
aggressive" and will overdo it, and will come out the worse.
re:Anti Govt."Not a single republican vote because he would not even
meet, discuss, or even consider the other parties input because he had the
votes."Nice talking point based on pure fiction.You
obviously were asleep during the development of the healthcare legislation. Obama repeatedly sought Republican participation. He solicited input
from individual GOP lawmakers. He rejected bedrock Democratic positions that
would alienate Republicans. He even surrendered authority for crafting the law
to Congress, a highly unusual move for a new president.Congress
worked in bi-partisan committees for MONTHS developing healthcare legislation.
The resulting legislation was based on Romneycare and previous Republican
proposals for healthcare. Senior Republicans were unified and
stalwart. Several health industry officials said they were told explicitly by
GOP leaders not to work with the president."The Republican Party
has changed," said Dan Nickelson, a former lobbyist for the prestigious
Cleveland Clinic who worked on healthcare issues in Washington for four decades.
"Almost right from the get-go, their tone was so negative. I don't know
if there was ever a real chance for bipartisan cooperation."
@LDS liberal"I'm "Unaffiliated", but lean
Libertarian and will most likely vote for Gary Johnson for President. Thanks for your wrong assumptions"I am glad your voting here
in Utah and completely not wasting your vote.
In a way, I hope romney wins, too. Although the discussion here today tends to
focus mostly on how horrible President Obama is, I'm assuming that some
people believe romney has a larger agenda than simply not being Obama, although
he does pretty good at keeping that agenda to himself. But I am assured that,
based on DN posts, republicans have somehow gotten every issue solved in the
past few years, and can restore the halcyon days of St. Ronnie, and somehow
ignore the existence of bush 1&Jr. So, win mitt, and then fix it.
That's what I expect,and nothing less. Fix it. Fix gas prices, immigration,
health care, the debt and deficit, all of it. I want a tax break and war in Iran
that neither your nor my children have to serve in. If obama could wreck it all
in 3 and change years, by the end of the first term it should be 1952 in America
again. Anything less, and you shall be a failure.
Oh boy get ready for the sleaze attacks from team Obama. Get ready for Romney
hates children and Romney lied about everything in the debate (never mind no
specifics given). It's akin to getting thumped 42-0 in a football game and
then crying afterwords saying the other team cheated - somehow. Team Obama has
ZERO credibility anymore. People have seen - finally - the two candidate matched
toe to toe with no teleprompter and no fuzzy media to bail BO out. Very
revealing for 60 million viewers. Expect team Obama to mount a massive sleaze
and mud throwing attack - desperate men do desperate things.
@ LDS LiberalThanks for assuming I am a Republican. I am actually
independent, but can see that B.O. is leading our country in a lousy direction
and am eager to see him out of office. Gary Johnson? Wow, what a
waste of a vote. RINO- give me a break. Nice moniker
"LDS Liberal". Not confusing at all.
@LDS Liberal...wow, so there ARE a few of you, "points of light," out
there in the dark wilderness...Right On!!!!
Interesting piece...I'm wondering, "Deseret News," where your slant
Keep drinking the MSM Kool Aid LDS Liberal.
For the next 30 days the lamestream media will begin to double down on their
Obama re-election efforts. Lies, half-truths, and innuendo WILL be the order of
the day.At this point I think they see it as a challenge - namely,
CAN they influence the American public enough that they vote to re-elect an
empty suit to the White House?It will be interesting to see if the
same bobble-heads that spend "news" time interviewing Kim Kardashian can
get the rock star re-elected!
Obama supporters! Hurry, get out to early voting - before the next debate in
which Romney makes Barry look like a guilty little kid again!
Barry promised to "reach across the isle and unite America".Reality?He delivered a 100% democratic party-line vote with his
"signature" health care legislation. Not a single republican vote
because he would not even meet, discuss, or even consider the other parties
input because he had the votes.He promised to cut the deficit in
half.Reality?We now have yearly trillion dollar
deficits. He of course blamed the deficits on the wars. Iraq has been
essentially shut down and he has already announced draw downs and the withdrawal
date for Afghanistan....and yet? Still running trillion dollar
deficits. Now the reason is just some other lame excuse.That is all
we get with Barry. We don't need another 4 years of getting the exact
opposite of what he promised.Liar-in Chief is what he has been.
Yeah baby! Keep it rollin. If we have another four years of Obama
I'll have to start digging into my kids college money to stay afloat.
mdCache, UT@ LDS Liberal. Please stay overconfident. It will be your
party's undoing.8:48 a.m. Oct. 8, 2012============
I'm "Unaffiliated", but lean Libertarian and will most
likely vote for Gary Johnson for President. Thanks for your wrong
assumptions.BTW - My assuming you are Republican -- Keep seeking for
political purity, uber-far-right-wing intolerant no RINO room for Moderates and
Independants extremism, it will be the Republican Party's undoing. [Reagan
was a RINO and the last Republican the Blue Dog Democrats and Moderate
Independants voted for].
I am glad to see that some people connected with the face to face meeting during
the debate.I cannot see how our country has done as well as it has
over the past 4 years of this current President with the type of one on one with
a person who has had leadership positions in his lifetime.Leaders
don't always make popular decisions but they make decisions and live with
the results and make more decisions. This President avoids making decisions.
He gets the Congress through twisting of arms to pass a bill. He then can blame
them for any problems as they are the ones that pass the laws, he only signs
them.As we know Speaker of the House at the time said we need to
pass it and then read it so that is an indictment that the President can blame,
even her, on the failure, if any. She didn't read it so it could have been
wrong.We live in such a world that spins faster than the axis is
made to handle. Since 1993, spinning has become a word of what happens in life.
The Democrat’s strategy is to try to assassinate the character of your
opponent, not run on your own merits! Don’t believe it? Watch and learn as
we approach the election and Democrats begin to panic!
@ LDS Liberal. Please stay overconfident. It will be your party's
Poll Tied...Whatever.Even with Florida and North
Carolina shifting back to Romney,Here's the ONLY "poll" that
matters:Obama = 303Romney = 235 270 Electoral
College votes needed to win.
it appears to be a no brainer, who could get behind the empty suit know as barry