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With polls tied, enthusiasm markers shift to Mitt Romney

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  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 10, 2012 8:07 p.m.

    the polls are most certainly NOT tied. The post debate polls are still coming out and I suspect Mitt will average about a 5 point lead over all when the dust settles. People need to really listen to BO now - pay attention to what he says and not how he says it. BO is all about style with zero substance and his media will doing everything in their power to prop him up as well. Pathetic.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 9, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    what has become so disappointing about this process is how it has revealed certain things about people I really wish had stayed hidden. One of the primary disappointments is not with the candidates themselves, but the behavior of those who support candidates. The ease and willingness to say things that in any other circumstances would not be said about other people shows a very clear degradation and acceleration of societies march toward the gutter.

    The second was my false expectation that my fellow LDS would conduct themselves in ways different than those who were not LDS. From Reed's unsupported politically driven claims to Romney's say what ever it takes to what ever audience shows that the whole "honest in all my dealings' part of the interview is rather hollow.

    Back to the shift in the pools.... I like Romney's new and improved positioning. It shows old guard Republicans are back driving the bus. It that stays true and honest, I would have no problem supporting that crowd. But if this is just a respect from the Tea Party war crowd... I am not interested. Lets see which Romney we really have... if there is a real Romney.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 9, 2012 8:16 a.m.

    Here's a few more Romney lies...
    I noticed after issuing the challenge to name even one lie, the challengers fell mysteriously silent, as more and more of mits lies are revealed.

    “I think about half of [the green firms Obama invested in], of the ones have been invested in have gone out of business. A number of them happened to be owned by people who were contributors to your campaigns.”

    As of late last year, only “three out of the 26 recipients of 1705 loan guarantees have filed for bankruptcy.

    “Mr. President, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half.”

    Oil production from federal lands is higher, not lower: Production from federal lands is up slightly in 2011 when compared to 2007. And the oil and gas industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, that it hasn’t begun exploring or developing.

    DSB said: "Everything you referenced as lies are merely standard Democratic spin"
    That's funny, Facts aren't spin.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 11:36 p.m.

    @Atl134:

    Everything you referenced as lies are merely standard Democratic spin on Romney's claims, to make Romney's claims look like lies because of their made-up assumptions. I'd say that's not very honest of you.

    Most dishonest spin - #5: that Romney claimed closing loopholes alone would pay for his tax plan. Romney has never said that closing loopholes alone would overcome revenue differences. He cited several ways that revenue would be generated, including through receipt of vastly increased tax revenues from newly hired people and those who earn higher pay in a resurgent economy. It's not a lie by any stretch, even if it represents a plan that you don't believe will succeed. Calling it a lie is... a lie.

    You accuse Romney of lying, but then to support yourself you spout opinions and make dishonest claims. That's very consistent with the Obama team's talking points.

  • Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 9:50 p.m.

    Mountanman Hayden, ID

    "The Democrat's strategy is to try to assassinate the character of your opponent, not run on your own merits!"

    Considering the source of this comment and the level of Birther nonsense we've had to contend with for the past 3 1/2 years, one wonders what it must be like to live in an alternate reality.

    As Jon Stewart said, there is both great height and great depth to (The Republican) Mountain.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2012 5:57 p.m.

    re:Uteanymous, Riverton Cougar
    You provided no sources, no evidence to support your rebuttal.

    Healthcare Timeline
    (CNN)
    April 21, 2009 -- Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus and Ranking Member Chuck Grassley hold the first of three roundtables bringing together health policy and industry experts to discuss the development of health care reform legislation.

    July 15, 2009 -- The Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passes The Affordable Health Choices Act. The bipartisan bill includes more than 160 Republican amendments accepted during the month-long mark-up, one of the longest in Congressional history.

    October 13, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus' landmark health reform bill, the America's Healthy Future Act.

    From CS Monitor 8/2009:
    Four out of five committees of jurisdiction have completed work on an overhaul of the US healthcare system -- three in the House, one in the Senate.

    But the endgame for healthcare reform still turns on six bipartisan negotiators on the Senate Finance Committee -- and the army of interest groups invited in or out of the cone of silence.
    The "gang of six" members are: Senators: Baucus D-MT, Conrad D-ND, Bingaman R-NM, Grassley R-IA, Snowe R-ME, Enzi R-WY.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 8, 2012 5:03 p.m.

    This race shouldn't even be close.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2012 4:53 p.m.

    re:Uteanymous, Riverton Cougar
    You provide no sources, no evidence for your assertions.

    Healthcare Timeline
    (CNN)
    April 21, 2009 -- Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus and Ranking Member Chuck Grassley hold the first of three roundtables bringing together health policy and industry experts to discuss the development of health care reform legislation.

    July 15, 2009 -- The Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passes The Affordable Health Choices Act. The bipartisan bill includes more than 160 Republican amendments accepted during the month-long mark-up, one of the longest in Congressional history.

    October 13, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus' landmark health reform bill, the America's Healthy Future Act.

    From CS Monitor 8/2009:
    Four out of five committees of jurisdiction have completed work on an overhaul of the US healthcare system -- three in the House, one in the Senate.

    But the endgame for healthcare reform still turns on six bipartisan negotiators on the Senate Finance Committee -- and the army of interest groups invited in or out of the cone of silence.
    The "gang of six" members are: Senators: Baucus D-MT, Conrad D-ND, Bingaman R-NM, Grassley R-IA, Snowe R-ME, Enzi R-WY.

  • regis Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 4:15 p.m.

    The first comment I read was about Obama being an "empty suit." What I think really happened is that Obama left his suit home, because he looked for all the world on that debate stage like the emperor who had no clothes. How embarrassing.

    Anyway, nice to see the two go head-to-head. It was pretty clear who won the debate, and who would do the better job as president. 70 million viewers saw that for themselves, unfiltered by mainstream media commentary.

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 3:14 p.m.

    @patsy

    Polls?

    The Right-Wing does not believe in polls...

    That was yesterday?

    Exactly.

    The daily operative question next to what's the weather today, is...

    what's Which Romney's position... today?

  • omahahusker Modesto, CA
    Oct. 8, 2012 2:50 p.m.

    Can you say "Hillary 2016!!!. Regardless of the outcome, soon after the election is over it will be nothing but Hillary speculation. If Obama is re-elected the mood of the country won't be so great for another democrat.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    @patriot
    "Name the Romney "gross lies". "

    1. His claim that he won't lower taxes on the wealthy. (Has repeatedly said that job-creators are overburdened with taxation).
    2. His claim that he won't increase taxes on the poor. (Has repeatedly said that we need to broaden the tax base which means people at the bottom, the 47% in particular, would pay more).
    3. His claim that he won't change anything related to Medicare for current beneficiaries (getting rid of Obamacare would re-open the donut hole).
    4. His claim that getting rid of Obamacare is part of a deficit reduction plan (since he's not keeping the Medicare cuts or tax increases in Obamacare, a total repeal according to the CBO increases the deficit).
    5. His claim that closing tax loopholes on the rich would pay for his otherwise nearly 5 trillion dollar tax plan making it budget neutral (google "factcheck romney impossible tax promise", closing all such loopholes, and it's highly skeptical that he even would, would not be enough to pay for the bill, which probably explains why he doesn't detail which loopholes he'd close).

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 2:37 p.m.

    the polls are NOT tied. The post debate poll numbers don't come out until Thursday for Rasmussen. Expect Mitt to get another nice bump on Thursday.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2012 2:30 p.m.

    I wouldn't think the far right would even care about the polls. Remember they are biased, they don't count the right numbers, they don't ask questions the right way etc. etc. Mr. Romney won the debate hands down, give him kudos for that.

    The funny thing is he ran away from the far right and suddenly became a moderate. Whether he lied or told the truth only Mr. Romney knows the answer to that question. The bottom line is he looked like a moderate and talked like a moderate. America is CENTER right, not far right. The things that Mr. Romney said appeal to the CENTER right.

    The question is would you bet $10,000 that what he said is what he believes and what he intends to do as President? I am one of those CENTER right people, who is not sure I believe him. I am not sure I don't believe him, I am just not sure.

    The problem Mr. Romney has is Americans will walk into the voting booth not knowing which Mr. Romney they are voting for which may lead them to vote for the President who they do know.

  • Ying Fah Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    ute alumni Tengoku, UT

    Just love the zingers you come up with. Such wit! "Empty suit". Classic!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2012 1:39 p.m.

    Truthseeker

    Your story of Republican participation in the health care debate is a complete fantasy, but it's obvious you've got a reliable source of Democratic talking points at your disposal.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Oct. 8, 2012 1:23 p.m.

    Hi atl134,

    You speak of "gross lying", but do you remember that one tax study that President Obama keeps citing as "proof" that Romney's tax plan won't work (even though every other study makes the opposite claims)?

    Here's what the author of the study, Princeton economist Harvey Rosen, said in response:

    "I can’t tell exactly how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work. It might be that they assume that Governor Romney wants to keep the taxes from the Affordable Care Act in place, despite the fact that the Governor has called for its complete repeal. The main conclusion of my study is that under plausible assumptions, a proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on taxpayers with incomes above $200,000 about the same. That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan revenue neutral."

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    re:patriot

    Name just one lie told by Romney?

    Here's one:
    "In one year, (Obama) provided $90 billion in breaks to the green energy world … into solar and wind, to Solyndra and Fisker and Tesla and Ener1."

    #1 The money ($90b) would've been distributed over longer than one year.

    #2 That $90 billion, as described (in a report provided by the Romney campaign), wasn’t provided in one year, wasn’t distributed primarily via tax breaks, wasn’t primarily provided directly to companies, wasn’t primarily spent on solar and wind, and wasn’t spent at all on Fisker or Tesla.

    More than 60% of it was directed to state/local governments/utility companies for energy efficiency, transportation and electrical infrastructure.

    And another:
    "Obama doubled the deficit"

    Facts:
    The final CBO baseline deficit projection before Obama took office showed a fiscal year 2009 deficit of $1.19 trillion. CBO projects that for fiscal 2012 the fiscal 2012 deficit will be $1.09 trillion.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Oct. 8, 2012 1:16 p.m.

    I can't wait to see what good 'Ol Joe Biden has to say in the Vice Presidential debate. He is a loose cannon and I bet the democrats are shaking in their boots.

    The next presidential debate should be great to watch as well.

  • Lowell Steele Farmington, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 12:48 p.m.

    For a more granular look at the predicted results from a team with an enviable track record, go to colorado dot edu, scroll down under news headlines to "Updated election forecasting model." The University of Colorado model examines electoral votes based on state-by-state data. They are predicting 330 electoral votes for Romney, 209 for President Obama (270 required to win). The model has been consistently accurate in the past.

  • WinSum Rexburg, ID
    Oct. 8, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    Can anyone who watched the debate really say Obama is a leader or presidential? Without his teleprompter to spew out lines, he truly is empty. At times I almost felt sorry for him.
    Almost....but was amazed at his vigor once his teleprompter was re-connected and he didn't have to "face" his challenger.

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 12:37 p.m.

    Which Romney

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 12:28 p.m.

    re:atl134

    Here is some questions for you. Name the Romney "gross lies". Name one. Name anything. Hard to name the lies when there WEREN'T any lies. Secondly IF Romney was such a terrible liar how bad does it look for Obama to NOT even recognize the lies and be able to rebut them...during the debate? All Barack did was look down like a lost child (minus his teleprompter). Finally, how exactly does Barack "game plan" for Romney's lies? This is absurd and you know it. The bottom line here is this..

    1. Obama was clueless - defending his OWN policies and rebutting Romneys. This had nothing to do with lies - this had EVERYTHING to do with Obama being EXPOSED for the first time in his life with no teleprompter and no lap dog media to bail him out. Obama has NO IDEA how things work unless his teleprompter tells him. So who is the REAL actor here???
    2. It is one thing to say someone is lying. It is another to actually define the lie in detail. From where I was setting during the debate it was ROMNEY that rebutting all of Obama's lies!! OBAMA EXPOSED!

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 12:06 p.m.

    It's interesting hpw polls make a difference when your guy's numbers have improved. Also, there is the contrast in how those who once blamed the "main stream media" and polling organizations see everything differently when they have positive stories by the same news organization.

    Ah, politics.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    @Truthseeker

    Does your revisionist version of the healthcare ordeal also include the American people uniting in strong support of the bill as well? And in your revisionist version of the events, did Obama post it online for all to see for 5 days and consider input before signing it? Did Pelosi and others read the whole thing and "find out what's in it" BEFORE signing the bill?

    I thought so. No matter how you spin it, the manner in which Obama passed Obamacare will forever be a black mark on his record.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 11:20 a.m.

    @patriot
    "It's akin to getting thumped 42-0 in a football game and then crying afterwords saying the other team cheated - somehow."

    Oh, so it's like losing 54-10... okay so by BYU fan standards I can say Obama's debate loss was a fluke or not a result of Romney winning but Obama not trying. Actually I shouldn't do that because odds are Obama will win one of the other two debates now that he can gameplan for Romney's gross lying.

    "Get ready for Romney hates children and Romney lied about everything in the debate (never mind no specifics given)."

    Romney said his plan helps those with pre-existing conditions. This is deceptive since it only protects those with continuing coverage. Romney said his plan doesn't lower taxes for the rich (but he thinks they're overburdened with taxes) nor raise taxes for the poor (but he thinks they'd too dependent on gov't handouts and is clearly not fond of 47% not paying income taxes). Romney thinks a deficit reduction plan is to repeal Obamacare (repeal increases the deficit, CBO analysis) and getting rid of Big Bird, while increasing defense spending.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    @Mountanman
    "The Democrat’s strategy is to try to assassinate the character of your opponent, not run on your own merits!"

    I'm pretty sure more Obama voters are pro-Obama rather than anti-Romney than Romney supporters are pro-Romney rather than anti-Obama. That's why there's a favorability gap in favor of Obama.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    @ute alumni
    "it appears to be a no brainer, who could get behind the empty suit know as barry obama?"

    Obama's the empty suit? Romney's a madlibs policy platform. Just insert whether or not he wants to ban all abortions (has supported the normal exemptions, but has supported a Personhood Amendment), cut taxes on the rich (he says they're overburdened with taxes, in the debate he said he wouldn't cut their taxes), increase taxes on the bottom (he says they're dependent on gov't, the 47%, and that we need to broaden the tax base, in the debate he said he wouldn't increase their taxes), and well... you get the picture.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    @LSC "DUCKS Rule!!!!!"

    At least we agree on something.

    My prediction for the next debate: Obama will be coached to "be aggressive" and will overdo it, and will come out the worse.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    re:Anti Govt.
    "Not a single republican vote because he would not even meet, discuss, or even consider the other parties input because he had the votes."

    Nice talking point based on pure fiction.

    You obviously were asleep during the development of the healthcare legislation.

    Obama repeatedly sought Republican participation. He solicited input from individual GOP lawmakers. He rejected bedrock Democratic positions that would alienate Republicans. He even surrendered authority for crafting the law to Congress, a highly unusual move for a new president.

    Congress worked in bi-partisan committees for MONTHS developing healthcare legislation. The resulting legislation was based on Romneycare and previous Republican proposals for healthcare.

    Senior Republicans were unified and stalwart. Several health industry officials said they were told explicitly by GOP leaders not to work with the president.

    "The Republican Party has changed," said Dan Nickelson, a former lobbyist for the prestigious Cleveland Clinic who worked on healthcare issues in Washington for four decades. "Almost right from the get-go, their tone was so negative. I don't know if there was ever a real chance for bipartisan cooperation."

  • bballjunkie Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:40 a.m.

    @LDS liberal

    "I'm "Unaffiliated", but lean Libertarian and will most likely vote for Gary Johnson for President.

    Thanks for your wrong assumptions"

    I am glad your voting here in Utah and completely not wasting your vote.

  • LSC Portland, OR
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:37 a.m.

    DUCKS Rule!!!!!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:34 a.m.

    In a way, I hope romney wins, too. Although the discussion here today tends to focus mostly on how horrible President Obama is, I'm assuming that some people believe romney has a larger agenda than simply not being Obama, although he does pretty good at keeping that agenda to himself. But I am assured that, based on DN posts, republicans have somehow gotten every issue solved in the past few years, and can restore the halcyon days of St. Ronnie, and somehow ignore the existence of bush 1&Jr. So, win mitt, and then fix it. That's what I expect,and nothing less. Fix it. Fix gas prices, immigration, health care, the debt and deficit, all of it. I want a tax break and war in Iran that neither your nor my children have to serve in. If obama could wreck it all in 3 and change years, by the end of the first term it should be 1952 in America again. Anything less, and you shall be a failure.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    Oh boy get ready for the sleaze attacks from team Obama. Get ready for Romney hates children and Romney lied about everything in the debate (never mind no specifics given). It's akin to getting thumped 42-0 in a football game and then crying afterwords saying the other team cheated - somehow. Team Obama has ZERO credibility anymore. People have seen - finally - the two candidate matched toe to toe with no teleprompter and no fuzzy media to bail BO out. Very revealing for 60 million viewers. Expect team Obama to mount a massive sleaze and mud throwing attack - desperate men do desperate things.

  • md Cache, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    @ LDS Liberal

    Thanks for assuming I am a Republican. I am actually independent, but can see that B.O. is leading our country in a lousy direction and am eager to see him out of office.

    Gary Johnson? Wow, what a waste of a vote.

    RINO- give me a break.

    Nice moniker "LDS Liberal". Not confusing at all.

  • LSC Portland, OR
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:18 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal...wow, so there ARE a few of you, "points of light," out there in the dark wilderness...Right On!!!!

  • LSC Portland, OR
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:11 a.m.

    Interesting piece...I'm wondering, "Deseret News," where your slant tilts? Hmmmm???

  • Gunner South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 10:10 a.m.

    Keep drinking the MSM Kool Aid LDS Liberal.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    For the next 30 days the lamestream media will begin to double down on their Obama re-election efforts. Lies, half-truths, and innuendo WILL be the order of the day.

    At this point I think they see it as a challenge - namely, CAN they influence the American public enough that they vote to re-elect an empty suit to the White House?

    It will be interesting to see if the same bobble-heads that spend "news" time interviewing Kim Kardashian can get the rock star re-elected!

  • MVH Farmington, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 9:22 a.m.

    Obama supporters! Hurry, get out to early voting - before the next debate in which Romney makes Barry look like a guilty little kid again!

  • Anti Government Alpine, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 9:17 a.m.

    Barry promised to "reach across the isle and unite America".

    Reality?

    He delivered a 100% democratic party-line vote with his "signature" health care legislation. Not a single republican vote because he would not even meet, discuss, or even consider the other parties input because he had the votes.

    He promised to cut the deficit in half.

    Reality?

    We now have yearly trillion dollar deficits. He of course blamed the deficits on the wars. Iraq has been essentially shut down and he has already announced draw downs and the withdrawal date for Afghanistan....and yet?

    Still running trillion dollar deficits. Now the reason is just some other lame excuse.

    That is all we get with Barry. We don't need another 4 years of getting the exact opposite of what he promised.

    Liar-in Chief is what he has been.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 9:05 a.m.

    Yeah baby! Keep it rollin.

    If we have another four years of Obama I'll have to start digging into my kids college money to stay afloat.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 9:03 a.m.

    md
    Cache, UT
    @ LDS Liberal. Please stay overconfident. It will be your party's undoing.

    8:48 a.m. Oct. 8, 2012

    ============

    I'm "Unaffiliated", but lean Libertarian and will most likely vote for Gary Johnson for President.

    Thanks for your wrong assumptions.

    BTW - My assuming you are Republican -- Keep seeking for political purity, uber-far-right-wing intolerant no RINO room for Moderates and Independants extremism, it will be the Republican Party's undoing. [Reagan was a RINO and the last Republican the Blue Dog Democrats and Moderate Independants voted for].

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 8:55 a.m.

    I am glad to see that some people connected with the face to face meeting during the debate.

    I cannot see how our country has done as well as it has over the past 4 years of this current President with the type of one on one with a person who has had leadership positions in his lifetime.

    Leaders don't always make popular decisions but they make decisions and live with the results and make more decisions. This President avoids making decisions. He gets the Congress through twisting of arms to pass a bill. He then can blame them for any problems as they are the ones that pass the laws, he only signs them.

    As we know Speaker of the House at the time said we need to pass it and then read it so that is an indictment that the President can blame, even her, on the failure, if any. She didn't read it so it could have been wrong.

    We live in such a world that spins faster than the axis is made to handle. Since 1993, spinning has become a word of what happens in life.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 8, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    The Democrat’s strategy is to try to assassinate the character of your opponent, not run on your own merits! Don’t believe it? Watch and learn as we approach the election and Democrats begin to panic!

  • md Cache, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    @ LDS Liberal. Please stay overconfident. It will be your party's undoing.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 8:32 a.m.

    Poll Tied...

    Whatever.

    Even with Florida and North Carolina shifting back to Romney,
    Here's the ONLY "poll" that matters:

    Obama = 303
    Romney = 235

    270 Electoral College votes needed to win.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 8, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    it appears to be a no brainer, who could get behind the empty suit know as barry obama?