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Published: Wednesday, Oct. 3 2012 10:39 p.m. MDT

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metamoracoug
metamora, IL

Fred 44: Mr. Obama has already dramatically raised taxes on the middle class through Obamacare in the following ways:

1) Medical device tax: imposes a new 2.3% excise tax on gross on gross sales -- even if the company didn't make a profit. Medical device manufacturers employ 490,000 in 12,000 plants across the country. not only burdening small businesses, this tax raises the cost of everything from pacemakers to prosthetics.

2) Currently, flexible spending accounts (FSA) are unlimited by law though employers may place a cap on them. This is pre-tax dollars. Obamacare caps FSAs at $2500. This affects 30-35 million Americans who use FSAs to meet basic medical needs. It could dramatically affect families with special needs children.

3) Medical itemized deductions: Currently, Americans facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction of all expenses exceeding 7.5% of adjusted gross income (AGI). Obamacare raises this deduction to 10 percent of AGI. By limiting this deduction, Obamacare widens the net of taxable income for the sickest Americans.

ksampow
Farr West, Utah

Romney is the clear winner when the voters get to hear him directly, instead of through the liberal filters used by most of the mainstream media. This time, even MSNBC, CNN, ABC, and CBS had to concede that Romney did better, because saying otherwise would expose their liberal bias to anyone who watched the debate. (Although some of the commentators tried to downplay the importance of the debate, which they would not have done had Obama appeared to win.)

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Romney won on style, Obama won on substance. Too often in the public eye style is more important. But it was the same old Romney on steroids. Mean spirited, entitled, waving in the breeze, and patently loose with the truth. Obama failed to call him out on a number of issues like his sudden change of heart on the plight of the middle class in view of his more candid remarks about the 47% of us who in his mind are deadbeats.

metamoracoug
metamora, IL

Mountainman @ 7:41: Well said.

Another important point that the media has overlooked is a small act that the President signed recently:

In a short memo released Friday, President Barack Obama announced that he would waive economic penalties for certain countries employing child soldiers, citing “the national interest” in doing so. The memo stated that all sanctions imposed under the Child Soldiers Prevention Act of 2008 would be waived for Libya, South Sudan, and Yemen, and portion’s of the law’s requirements would be lifted for the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The exact national interests requiring these waivers was not stated.

It is reported that this is the third year Mr. Obama has waived penalties under this act.
Jesse Eaves, the senior policy adviser for child protection at World Vision, said the president was trying to maintain good relationships with the countries to ensure security assistance, but called the move “bizarre” because of how strongly Obama has come out publicly against precisely this kind of child exploitation.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Great debate!

Mitt Romney FINALLY got away from the uber-far-right-wingnuts who've high-jacked the GOP, was more himself, and showed his mor moderate Centrist self.

I'd would've liked to hear more HOW he's gonna create 12 million new jobs....

But all in all, gotta say it - Romney pasted the President.

Not that it swayed me --
I'm still voting for Gary Johnson (L)

Brave Sir Robin
San Diego, CA

This morning MSNBC released a poll about if/how the debate swayed voters:

42% said the debate did not sway them.
17% said the debate made them more likely to vote Obama.
41% said the debate made them more likely to vote Romney.

That's huge. And it sounds like there are more undecideds out there than anybody believes.

bricha
lehi, ut

The best part in my opinion was when Romney was able to compare our economy to Spains economy Obama countering it.

dragon12
Salt Lake City, UT

Romney has shown his true colors over and over in his overt display of disrespect for others and his narcissistic need for control. Not to mention how many cars, homes, and other monetary pleasures this man cherishes. On the other hand, Obama and the First Lady have demonstrated to citizens how they can be self sufficient by their service oriented lifestyle (teaching students how to garden and enjoy its harvest, choosing to give back to the community instead of building powerful empires, etc.). When Romney talks about morals (or anything else for that matter) it is all talk for appearances sake. God help us all if Romney fools the majority of America's citizens. However, I do have hope that he won't.

rightascension
Provo, UT

Technically, last night's encounter was not a debate since we got a lot of statement and restatement of contrary positions. Romney's numbers do not add up to my mind -- but in fairness, Obama's numbers do not add up either. To look into Romney's eyes is rather like looking into the eyes of J Pierpont Morgan, whose gaze was once described as like looking into the headlamp of an oncoming train. Obama looked like a professor on a Thursday afternoon that will not end confronting a class full of know it all juniors.

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

I watched only the first 20 minutes and the last 20 minutes so maybe Romney was excellent in the middle. All the reviewers seem to think so. I thought they both sounded like idiots - with the exception of the President's closing comments - which, to my mind, sounded presidential.

The tragedy of the night was Jim Lehrer. I have long respected him as an honest newsman. He embarrassed himself and his profession last night by losing control during the first 5 minutes. He never regained it. Mitt Romney bullied him. To his credit, it worked so might as well keep doing it. The format quickly descended into something other than a debate. I think it's time for Jim Lehrer to retire. I hope the other moderators will take note and keep the debate an actual debate.

FT
salt lake city, UT

I've decided to switch my vote to Mitt Romney. Oh, wait a minute. I live in Utah and my vote is really meaningless.

nick
Provo, UT

At one point in the debate, there was a loud thud behind the stage. It was Obama's telepromper committing suicide. All the hard work the prompter has done for the past four years just went up in smoke with Obama's sorry performance. He just couldn't take it any more and ended it all.

MVH
Farmington, UT

Take a look at both men on that debate platform last night. Now ask yourself which man would you take financial advice from. That man is Mitt Romney.

Peter R
Provo, UT

When discussing Romney's comment on education, Obama included himself in the crowd of parents that might have trouble paying for their kids' college. He has done such a successful job of painting himself as the "people's candidate" that no one challenges this statement. He's long been part of the 1% that is so maligned these days! To include himself in that group was a shock to me. Unfortunately for Romney, most people still believe that and this man who fights for the classes and equality has been über successful in committing class warfare.

JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

Romney clearly won this debate. Whether it (and other wins in the other two debates) will be enough to win him the election is the big question.

As many Obama supporters on this forum have demonstrated, nothing will sway their vote. Obama could do the most outrageous thing possible and they would still vote for him. (To be fair, Romney also has some of those kinds of supporters as well.)

The biggest question in this (and every) election, is how many voters truely have an open mind and can be persuaded to put the good of the country ahead of their own party politics.

We can argue all day (and we probably will) over who has the best plan to move the country forward, but in that debate Romney simply showed more competence in actually executing his plan. Obama appeared unsure of himself when pushed to go deeper than talking-points rhetoric and get to the details of implementation.

staypuffinpc
Provo, UT

@Stephen Kent Ehat, your comment about Obama not only not reaching across the aisle, but failing to convince anyone in his own party is interesting. It's curious to me that the fact that Obama hasn't even been able to get a single democrat to vote for his budget in nearly four years. Regardless of your party affiliation, if you ran a business, or any organization for that matter, why would you grant tenure to someone who can't get a single person to agree with one of his prime responsibilities?

Millsap fan
Taylorsville, UT

Romney seemed like the one with the experience and knowledge about how to run the country. Clearly he has the qualifications to run this country.

I thought President Obama did ok until the closing argument. Once he finished i laughed and said out loud, "Wow, that was a weak closing argument." I think the poor guy just wanted it to be over.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

How's THIS from the "Liberal" Lame-Stream Media ---

Romney vs. Empty Chair
Maher: Obama Needs Teleprompter
Carr: Prez 'Crushed' by Romney
Goodwin: This One's Game-Changer
Sullivan: A Disaster for Obama
Barone: Romney Took CommandFT: Time for Obama Game ChangeKurtz: What Will Obama Do Now?

Why do I post this?

Because I'm SICK and tired of the Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, FoxNews addicts who keep saying and blaming the media.

They report what they see -- period.

The problem has been the GOP has run a terrible race thus far,
Last night the Etch-a-Sketch candidate moved further Moderate, Center Right, and left the uber-far-right-wingnut Tea Party aside.

BTW --Mitt Romney came out a s flaming RINO, in case you missed it.

jsf
Centerville, UT

The great climate change scientist Al Gore explained the lackluster performance of Obama on the high altitude. But Obama did his prep in Las Vegas, and we all know "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."

dragon12 "Obama and the First Lady have demonstrated to citizens how they can be self sufficient by their service oriented lifestyle." Have you checked the tax payers price tag for their vacations? You do realize they are purchasing a multi million home in Hawaii. This comment is really reaching to paint a picture that does not exist. Ann Romney gets hammered by the press for wearing a blouse that costs hundreds, and Michelle gets a free pass for wearing outfits that cost thousands.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "dragon12" what are you talking about?! Obama goes on vacations to destinations filled with the ultra wealthy, and flies around on a 747 all the time. Where has Obama given service?

Also, FYI, the gardening that was taught was done by the white house gardener, not Michelle.

The Obama's have personally given back to the the community about as much as a leech gives back to its host.

Go back and read about what Romney has done. He has been an unpaid leader within the LDS church where he worked to raise the spirits of the downtrodden, he personally paid for milk at a VA center. While governor, he went out and went and worked as a day as a garbage man, and other similar jobs. What has Obama done? So far your examples are 100% false and fail to look at reality.

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