To USA lover. I am LDS, conservative and a union member. I would like to hear
your explanation of why you chose to denigrate union members in your post. I
have an issue with LDS who feel a need to demonize others.
I was thinking this had more to do with making sure a too-long standing
practice, like the Priesthood ban, doesn't happen again. In 1978 that was
removed and an age cap was put in place so 'old ideas' don't stay
in too long. Those were my speculations.
LValfre,I think I read about President Kimball's decision to do
this in Ed Kimball's biography. I think it's called "Lengthen Your
Stride." I highly recommend it.
LValfre:I think the best answer to your question is given by Elder
Jensen himself, as stated in the article:"I'm grateful the
Lord has made provisions to be emeritus. I think it's wise. To me, it makes
possible the refreshment of the Seventy. You have new Seventies come on board,
and they work hard for a number of years and give it the best they have, and
then they quietly step down and let new men come in to keep pushing the work
along with new energy and vitality."For a shorter answer, I
suggest one word: foresight.
I'm still wondering why this change was put in place in 1978? Anyone have
Scientist's statistics are sobering and sad to those of us who are striving
to be among the active members of the Church, and they're certainly not
lost on those in the leading councils of the Church. It brings to my mind this
statement made by President Ezra Taft Benson in 1974, when he was serving as the
President of the Council of the 12:"There is a real sifting
going on in the Church, and it is going to become more pronounced with the
passing of time. It will sift the wheat from the tares, because we face some
difficult days, the like of which we have never experienced in our lives. And
those days are going to require faith and testimony and family unity, the like
of which we have never had" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 107).The statistics appear to corroborate President Benson's
Don't see how this comment violates ANY of your rules:Reuters
reported in January this year that, at a Q&A session at Utah State
University, Elder Jensen said,"the 15 men that are above me in
the hierarchy of the church... [know that members are 'leaving in
droves']... Maybe since Kirtland, we've never had a period of -
I'll call it apostasy, like we're having now."And
"that attrition has accelerated in the last five or 10 years"They also report that the retention rate for converts is as low as 25 percent,
and LDS Sociologists estimate there are as few as 5 million active members
worldwide."It's a different generation," Elder Jensen
told the group in Logan. "There's no sense kidding ourselves, we just
need to be very upfront with them and tell them what we know and give answers to
what we have and call on their faith like we all do for things we don't
Why did this change get implemented in 1978?
Re: A Scientist Provo, UTElder Marlin K. Jensen has spent a life
time in the service of his Heavenly Father, and this world is a far better place
because of him.Isn't it wonderful that at age 70 he can spend
some personal time with his family, friends, and the animals he cares for!!
It is interesting how many comments of such varying degrees result in a simple
story about someone "retiring" from official church service. When my
father retired I never saw so many comments as to whether or not he was retiring
because of his lack of faith in the new management which had recently taken over
his company (which for him was the case).Elder Jensen has served
well, and so many others have an continue to do so; including ward nursery
leaders and various general authorities. Let's simply say thank you and
continue to serve well ourselves.
a Scientistepistemology: knowledge to understnd, believe orig, to stand
before, confront study or theory of the origin, nature, methods, and limits of
knowledge.Whew! some "technique" wouldn't one say?
Some emeritus church leaders become even busier with special church assignments,
and I appreciate the saying, "all work is the same."
Scientist (a.k.a. Vanka?--if so, it's good to see your comments again.)Yes, I do accept divine communication--the Spirit, as you put it--as a
viable source of knowledge. Opinions on that epistemological technique vary, I
realize, but you won't find me critizing anyone who does not share my
opinion. It appears you have been criticized because, if I am inferring
correctly, you question the viability of the Spirit as an epistemological
technique. If you have been criticized, I am truly sorry, even if my previous
post to you was borderline snarky (sarcastic to be sure).But
regarding the topic at hand, I would say that a well-established precedent is my
reason for accepting at face value Elder Jensen's imminent designation as
an emeritus General Authority. He turned 70 earlier this year, he has had
several months to transition his replacement as Church Historian, and General
Conference is coming up next week. I don't need the Spirit to tell me why
he is going to be granted emeritus status. I have no reason to assume any other
motive by the First Presidency to grant him emeritus status than the
Church leaders are saddened to see any members leave the fold, however few they
might be. Some detractors delight in all sorts of exaggeration and this is just
another fine example of distortion of the facts. The numbers do not lie. When
the LDS Church drew a line in the sand as was done with prop 8 in California, a
few left-lib members made their choice to say "bon voyage". The real
truth is however that membership continues to grow as rapidly as ever.
I would call myself a Democrat also if I didn't have to align myself with
abortioners, gay-marriage proponents, unions, socialism and big government.Marlin Jenson is no more a Democrat than I'm an alien from Mars.
Montana Mormon,"What variables did you take into account, or
neglect to take into account, to arrive at your scientific cause-effect
conclusion?"The Spirit.If you cannot comprehend it,
you must be unworthy.(Isn't that the epistemological technique
of which you approve?)
I have no doubt that if he put his mind to it, "A Scientist" could make
up reasons for all the other emeritus status appointments at age 70 out of
nothing as he did in this case.
I will miss Elder Jensen's compassion, honesty, and willingness to be
forthright about the Church's history. He is a fine example of how you can
be both a democrat and a terrific member of the Church. I wish he would
reconsider running for political office. Utah could really use his perspective
[I STILL don't understand why the DN monitor refuses to post this? What
"rule" am I breaking?]I'm sad to see Elder Marlin K.
Jensen released.He was one of my favor GA's.Enjoy
the well deserved rest Elder Jensen...
For Montana Mormon, I think we should give A Scientist a chance to also explain
the specific reason why each and everyone of the other emeritus status
individuals were moved into those ranks.In all seriousness, I am
grateful for the time each of these men and women have devoted to such intense
service for so many years of their lives. We miss them when their seats are no
longer occupied but hope that they have more opportunities to spend with their
families which they have no doubt had to sacrifice to a great degree over the
Scientist, is you assumption based on "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" or
"post hoc ergo propter hoc"?What variables did you take into
account, or neglect to take into account, to arrive at your scientific
Jensen made the mistake of being honest about how many people are leaving the
Church. So they have to move him into the pasture...