It will be real news when the DN reports that Mitt is slipping among Mormon
When all is said and done after this election - and perhaps Obama wins, I will
never entertain any negative comments from Catholics and Jewish individuals.
The choice between Obama and Romney as far as their faiths is HUGE. When the
Catholic universities and hospitals get his hard with the birth control/abortion
issue - I just can't feel sorry for them. When Israel fights for its life
regarding Iran... and the Jewish individuals wring their hands and complain - I
will just have to tell them they voted in the cause of their pain. I don't
care about polls, I am waiting to see just how informed and scared the general
populus is. If they still vote for Obama, they will get exactly what they
voted for - a solipsistic individual who will take down a very wonderful and
great Country. I expect some flak, but I have spoken the truth.
shuttdlrl: Your post is a direct copy/paste from Newsmax. And your statement
about Biden is untrue, to boot. Shame on you.
Clinton - what part of the 47% comment isnt' true you asked?Just down the road from me is the VA hospital. I do volunteer down there and
know a lot of those guys. Most of the WWII guys are gone now, but we have a lot
of Korean War, and Vietnam War veterans down there, plus some from Desert Storm.
Most don't pay any federal income taxes. Which part of those guys down
there are the freeloaders Romney was referring to?My mother worked
until she was 68, and now lives mostly on Social Security plus some savings.
She doesn't pay Income tax... you saying she is a freeloader? Part of the
47% nanny state people? She represents over 40% of those 47%ers... you know...
people who paid into the social security system their whole lives, supported
their previous generation. Those the nanny state freeloaders you referring
to?Or how about the lady in our ward who lost her husband, had 4
kids, and is trying to support them and makes less than 40K a year. She
doesn't pay income taxes... she one of Romney's freeloading nanny
state leaches?Leaches... I don't think so.
@siloRomney did NOT say they were Obama voters. so not a lie.In so many words, he said most of them are more interest4ed in getting
free stuff from government, love their dependency, so a tax plan
that encourages more personal responsibility would not appeal to them, so
her must go after the smaller percentage that do care.There is
nothing more to it than that, no matter how much you want to twist and spin, and
invent "lies".All these pollsters are mostly liberal based,
and therefore look to support their liberal candidate, (even
Fox,which a study showed the majority of fox media people supported the
democrats monetarily by a ratio of 5 to 1, so fox media is is not so
"right" as some want to pretend)analyzing the polls, they
always heavily over-represent the democrats, and those affiliated with a party
in general, and greatly under represent the independent voter, the
independents show no passion for Obama. and they tend to vote against the
incumbent. This is very similar to the 1980 election, the
environment is the same, very bad economy and trouble in middle east.Romney narrowly win more states than expected.
Do Mitt Romney supporters have a reading deficiency or an attention
deficiency?No sane person can possibly excuse or explain away what
Mitt said. Setting aside the statement that 47% pay no income taxes, Mitt
denigrated and disparaged those 47% by falsely asserting that they:-
"are dependent upon government"- "believe that they are
victims"- "believe the government has a responsibility to care for
them"- "believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to
housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government
should give it to them."- "they will vote for this president no
matter what"- "they [can never be convinced that they ] should
take personal responsibility and care for their lives"What part
of that is NOT offensive and completely untrue?!But then did you
catch what he said about YOU who support him?He says you are people
who "vote based on emotion... or whether they like the guy or not." You
don't vote on principle, or intelligent consideration of the issues.How did this irresponsible speech NOT offend EVERY American?
@Clinton"How, when his point is obviously regarding which political
group he has to focus on in his campaign, can so many people misunderstand his
commentary to mean he doesn't care about those people? "How
do you not realize that people are going to be upset when Romney heaps scorn and
disgust upon 47% of the nation by suggesting they don't care about personal
responsibility (says a guy who picked a VP whose tax plan lowers Romney's
tax rate to 0 on most of his income).
@patriot"Actually the truth is most Catholics only casually
follow their beliefs anyway and most only attend church at Christmas and Easter
so what Obama did was no big deal."Oh Patriot. Thank god
you're not the face of Mormonism.
I think now is the time that the GOP comes out and states that they don't
want or need Catholics in their party. They've already said that to gays,
hispanics, women, college students, and anyone who is not in the 99%. Whenever
some group throws their support to the Dems, the GOP seems to respond by saying
they don't want or need that group anyway. So I expect we'll hear
that kind of announcement from the GOP about Catholics in the next few days.The GOP's small tent just keeps getting smaller.
@ClintonSaying that 47% of the population pays no income taxes may
be true. But that's not what Romney said. He clearly said that the 47%
that don't pay taxes are Obama voters...an abject lie that is easily
refuted.Saying that 47% of the population is dependent on the
government is a lie, no matter how you spin it. Still, Romney added to that
lie by claiming all 47% of Obama supporters were dependent on government. Lying
about a lie does not make it more true.Saying that it's not his
job to worry about those 47% may be true to him as a person, but absolutely
can't be true to him as a presidential candidate. As president, he
represents all Americans. He stated in no uncertain terms that he's not
interested in representing all Americans. His poll numbers reflect that.
@Silo: Romney said, "So my job is not to worry about those people.
I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care
for their lives. What I have to do is to convince the 5 to 10 percent in the
center that are independents..."How, when his point is obviously
regarding which political group he has to focus on in his campaign, can so many
people misunderstand his commentary to mean he doesn't care about those
people? That, in and of itself, seems pretty intellectually dishonest to me.
@Silo: According to IRS data from 2009, 8% of the population didn't file a
tax return. Maybe they paid taxes maybe they didn't. Since they
didn't file, we don't know. On top of that 8%, 42% of the people who
did file a tax return had no tax liability, meaning they didn't pay any
taxes. So the estimation that 47% of the population doesn't pay taxes
seems fairly accurate to me, or at least close enough that you really have a
hard time calling it an "outright lie."Also, you're
leaving out an important part of what he said. He said that he's not going
to reach those who will vote for Obama no matter what, and he's not going
to reach people who don't pay taxes with a tax plan. Why? Because it is
irrelevant to them. Democrats are making far more out of what Romney said than
is actually there, and unfortunately, the population is to lazy to look into the
matter any further than what they are spoon-fed by the media.
@Clinton "Just curious... In your estimation, what about Romney's 47%
comment wasn't absolutely true?"I'm not UtahBlueDevil,
but here's the short answer. Most of Romney's 47% comment was an
abject lie.In his comments, he stated that 47% of the country would
vote for Obama no matter what, AND that the same group paid no income taxes, AND
that they were dependent on government, AND that he wasn't worried about
that group.In that statement, only the first condition was
true...that 47% would vote for Obama no matter what. The second and third
condition are outright lies and easily disproven. Obama's voters represent
a similar cross-section to Romneys regarding taxes paid and government
dependence. The final condition, that he's not worried about that 47%, may
have been true to him when speaking to his wealthy donors, but has certainly
proven to be false now that he's seen the impact of his thoughtless
statement in the polls.
@coleman51"I seriously doubt the integrity of the polls anymore, with
the exception of Rasmussen. "That's because you refuse to
believe the reality of the situation which is that Romney is fiercely unpopular.
Yeah, a Republican SHOULD be able to beat Obama in this sort of electoral
climate, but a republican whose approval rating split is something like 45-50
who just denigrated half the nation, played politics during a tragedy, and has
base appeal similar to a root canal... it's just not going to work.
@shuttdrl"Only one of these Catholics — Biden — has been
criticized, reprimanded, and sanctioned by the bishops. Make that 17
bishops."Only one of them - Ryan - has had a bus full of nuns
going around his home state condemning his budget.
If Mr. Romney doesn't hit a home run in the debates, this thing is over and
since republicans like to blame somebody it won't be the liberal media it
will be the tea party and the Grover Nordquist Koch Brothers crowd. Republicans
haven't figured out that playing to the tea party may work well in some
states or even local congressional districts, but most of America has not
embraced the tea party movement the way the guys on talk radio and fox news
would have you believe. Mr. Romney has not been able to appeal in a large scale
way to moderates of either party. Do we remember the so called Reagan
Democrats? Mr. Romney could have appealed to them if he wasn't so busy
trying to appease the tea party. President Reagan would not have won had he had
the tea party to deal with. Until the republicans figure out that there is a
middle in America, whether that middle be middle class, or middle of the
spectrum, they will not win a presidential election. The republicans must look
within, and quit catering to extremists. The country is center right and the
I doubt religion has much to do with the poll numbers. Most latino minorities
(many illegal) side with their democratic providers, and they happen to be
mostly Catholic. Romney/Ryan take a hard stance against illegal immigration, as
they should; Obama does not.
NeilT - "He is trying to define himself as a tea party conservative which he
is not. "You are exactly right. Romney is trying to be the
person that the far right wants him to be. He is being dishonest with himself
and them.I think that Romney could be a very good leader if his
hands were not tied by the GOP.
@UtahBlueDevil Just curious... In your estimation, what about Romney's
47% comment wasn't absolutely true?
@Well Read: You're post is nothing more than conjecture. Just because
somebody is successful doesn't mean they are devoid of wisdom and
understanding, and just because somebody is dirt poor and unsuccessful
doesn't mean they are enlightened.
I am surrounded by Catholics here in the northeast, there is very much a
division between the male clerics and the nuns and average Catholic. The
clerics see exactly two issues in this campaign, abortion and gay marriage, in
that order; these two issues are opposed by the head office in Rome, and any
cleric who wants to climb the rungs of power has to tow the line. The nuns and
the lay Catholics, are far more likely to still follow the Catholic Social
Justice doctrine of Dorothy Day and the 1960s which is a "big picture"
view of life, which includes health care, and respect for the dignity and
privacy of others. In short, Obama's positions over Romney's)FYI, Joe Biden is far more representative of the Catholics I have come across
than Paul Ryan.
I seriously doubt the integrity of the polls anymore, with the exception of
Rasmussen. Romney will win this election. Likely, the numbers reflected in these
polls are among those who won't vote this November.
Patriot You don't win elections by insulting voters. I find you are just
like Romney, like to make insulting comments. As a long time Romney supporter I
am profoundly dissapointed in the campaign he has run. He is trying to define
himself as a tea party conservative which he is not. There is no doubt the
republican party has taken extreme positions on many social issues such as
immigration, abortion, and healthcare. The never ending criticism and sniping
at Obama on fox news is perceived by many african Americans as racially
motivated. Romney is loosing support among minorities, women, the poor. I
still plan on voting Romney, would never vote for Obama.
Stephen.... You say "Polls at this stage are often conducted for purposes
of forming public opinion and influencing elections as much as measuring opinion
and predicting elections."If that were the case, why would
FoxNews report from their own poll"The vote preference among
independents is also unchanged from two weeks ago: 43 percent back Obama and 39
percent Romney. Nearly one in five is undecided.""The
latest Fox News poll finds the race for the White House holds steady, with 48
percent of likely voters backing the Obama-Biden ticket and 43 percent backing
the Romney-Ryan ticket, if the election were held today. "So if
FoxNews polls are to influence voters, what influence are they trying to do
here? Now I am not saying this directly about you, but the constant attacking
the messenger to discredit them if you don't like the news is getting old.
Blaming things like the "LIberal Media" or as Rove rants about bad
sampling if it doesn't say what he want them to say is getting old. I
don't think Fox is in Obama's corner on this one.BTW -
these quotes are from today on FoxNews
Caprice...BET ON!!!!Landslide? HAHAHAHA!!! Maybe in Utah, but
nowhere else.Doesn't news of the REAL world make it to Providence?
Even House Republicans are bored to death by him.Heartland Christians
really want to care, but Mitts Mormonism meansthey dont know which way is
heaven anymore. Only rich Wall Street barons arehappy with Mitt. This is
because they built him.It all bodes very well indeed. When a nation
is this apathetic and numb to aparticular candidate, when they cant get
away from him fast enough, goodthings happen for the other side. Even Bush
was able to galvanize theuneducated, fundamentalist right. Even McCain
could leverage his boguspatriotism and Sarah Palins ditzy winking. Romney
cant even galvanize yourgrandmother in Florida. If anything, shes furious
that Paul Ryan wants to killMedicare. Or rather, she soon will be, once
Obama reminds her, fifty times aday, for the next month.So be
heartened, liberal America. Milquetoast mannequins who inspire no one,not
even their own supporters, not even the Christian right, not even HouseRepublicans never win major elections. They do make amusing footnotes,though.
Romney could lie all he wanted at the GOP convention, with all his dopey toadies
bobbing their empty heads up and down and drooling. But he will get KILLED in
the debate.At least Bush had his searing ignorance, childish notions
of God, moronic cowboy worldview to rally around. Mitt Romney promises little,
delivers less, stands for nothing you can really name save for what his handlers
feed him: Poor people are losers, abortion is wrong, wealthy white folk are
wonderful and benevolent and should never really pay taxes, Mexicans are fine in
small doses when they’re mowing the lawns of one of my five estates or
cleaning the stalls of my show horses.Here&s the fantastic
thing: not many on the Right care much for Mitt, either.There is no
passion to be found anywhere (save for the extremists and Tea Partysimpletons who adore Ryan).
Given the fact that a President is elected on a state-by-state basis (remember
the electoral college and electoral votes?), the only truly relevant issue to be
writing about under the general topic of "support among Catholic voters"
is "what is the level of support among likely voters who are residents of a
swing state (such as, for example, Ohio or Florida) and who are Catholics and
whose Catholic faith will play a role in their activity inside of the polling
booth."Polling that measures the degree of support that
Catholics demonstrate in a poll is of little or no relevance if the Catholic is,
say, not registered to vote, not likely to vote, not influenced in the voting
act by his or her Catholic faith, or say a resident of a state (such as,
perhaps, Utah) where his or her vote as a Catholic may not join with enough
other Utah voters to have an impact in Utah's result (not to mention zero
impact on Ohio's result).Polls at this stage are often
conducted for purposes of forming public opinion and influencing elections as
much as measuring opinion and predicting elections.
"Catholics only casually follow their beliefs anyway and most only attend
church at Christmas and Easter"Nice line Patriot. Paint with a
broad brush much?
Note to all Romney supporters:When Obama wins this election in
November, I promise not to "spike the football"... much.Thanks for playing.
I love the subtle slams on the "less religious" and how they are voting
for Obama over Romney. Consider perhaps that the "less religious" or
non-religious tend to favor Obama because of party affiliation. If people who
tend to be "more religious" seem to gravitate to the Republican party,
doesn't that present a problem for Republicans? Reason why I bring this up
is because MOST Americans are not religious zealots, and if the Republican party
is known to attract "religious zealots" wouldn't that be a turn off
to most Americans? See my point? If one party becomes known as the
super-Religious party it's going to be a turn off. I submit that the
Republican party HAS been hijacked by the "extreme right" or fringe if
you will, and those people tend to be more religious. The party has
systematically kicked out all moderates who had any power, and often moderate
Republicans are made fun of and called "RINO's" - does this concern
any of you who were true fiscal conservatives but don't really care go mix
Religion and politics?
The conventional wisdom holds that both vice-presidential candidates, Rep. Paul
Ryan and Vice President Joe Biden, are roughly equal in terms of their Catholic
standing: Ryan is good on the life issues, but weak on social justice; the
reverse is said to be true of Biden. But is it a draw? Not even close: Only one
of these Catholics — Biden — has been criticized, reprimanded, and
sanctioned by the bishops. Make that 17 bishops.
To Patriot: There is no developed country in the world that is less socialized
than the U.S. So where are you going to move? Communist China? Communist
The poll that count will be November 6th. The winner will not be Romney! He
could have beaten Obama if he had been himself instead of trying to be what he
was not. He is much more like Obama than the Romney who is running as a T party
candidate. He is not being true to himself and because of that he will lose.
He also has another big problem. He NO comprehension how most of the citizens
in the live. He has always had a silver spoon in his mouth. Never had to apply
for a job, never had to apply for unemployment, never had to choose which bill
to pay first because of a shortage of money to pay them all. In short he has no
comprehension how most of us live and the worst part is - he has not desire to
even try to learn. His father when he was running investigated the poor slum
areas of the country. He tried to understand the common man. He was way ahead
of the country on the Viet Nam War.
it's over.... Thanks again tea party.
Why single out just the Catholic voters?Mitt Romney is slipping in
every demographic there is, except the super Rich White Guys and Utah
Mormons.Sad that the later is following Babylon.
"Do they call the same number of Democrats as Republicans. There are more
ways to affect results of polls, than people called."I saw Carl
Rove yammering this line yesterday on Fox. I would love to know how you run a
blind poll and make sure you get the same number of democrats as republicans.
Or religious affiliation. Cherry picking people you talk to would invalidate
just about any poll out there. I get what he was trying to say, but what he
wanted just wasn't representative of reality. The other point
that is being missed here is geography. Northeast Catholics are far more
conservative than west coast Catholics. Same with white Catholics versus
hispanic Catholics. It is not a single voting block like many LDS like to
pretend Mormons are or should be.So Ute Alumni - yes, actually Obama
is very representative of what a West Coast Catholic is like. Far more so than
Romney. The honest answer is that it just depends which Catholic group you are
re: I-am-II am a Deist/Taoist & will *not* vote for Ivy
Leaguer.What I find interesting is MR is losing ground in Ohio. One blog has it 316-222 for BO. I see it more like 285-253 for the
There is a new, exciting, earth shattering poll EVERYDAY! What I don't see
when these polls are being reported is much mention of the fact that Romney is
ahead with the Independents. Several weeks and months ago, we were told that it
all came down to how the Independent voter decided to go. Now it seems like we
have all kinds of polls with all kinds of numbers. How is it that Gallup is so
far distant from Rasmussen? Does this make sense to anybody? The
problem that Obama is going to face is the same problem Jimmy Carter had to
face. He is going to have to defend his record in debates. There is nothing
good about it. There is not even a glimmer of hope on the horizon with what
Obama is planning. He plans to take us even deeper into debt, all the while
claiming it is Bush's fault. This argument is going to fly apart at some
point in the debates.
Maybe Paul Ryan is Catholic version of Harry Reid. If Senator Reid ran for
President would he carry Utah? Some of my Catholic friends have told me that a
lot of Ryan's ideas are strongly opposed by the hierarchy of the Church. I
think that is what is missing from this study.
Hint, how they are counted makes the difference. Does one poll call registered
voters, and the other call registered voters likely to vote?Do they
call the same number of Democrats as Republicans. There are more ways to affect
results of polls, than people called.
yeap and obama is really representative of catholics.
The ironic thing here is that the Republican base once again voted someone in
who had to run as a hardliner, and now can't back track to the center.
Romney is in a catch 22. If he moves to the center, he risks disenfranchising
the extreme right core. If he stays hard right, he will not get the independent
vote. He was dealt a hard hand to deal with. Had Romney run from
the beginning as a center right candidate, I would have no problem voting for
him. And the reality is that if he makes it into office, just perhaps he could
get past the hard right rhetoric and manage the country as he should. But as it
stands how, he has shifted hard right, which makes it really hard for anyone
moderate to vote for him.The last thing we need in Washington are
those who want to lead from the edges. We just don't need anymore of that.
Romeny could have been that man, but right now, he isn't anywhere close to
that - with his "47%" like comments.
Mitt Romney is not slipping among Catholics who live their religion, which is a
revealing statement about the rest. The polls being tauted are never really as
they seem. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Mitt Romney wins by a
substantial landslide. And I'm dead serious.
Obama gives you free stuff and Romney wants you to work for it - which guy are
you going to vote for???? Honestly this country hardly deserves freedom or
prosperity anymore - how far have we slid as a nation??? Half the country is a
bunch of freeloaders who know more about reality shows and Hip Hop songs than
they do anything else. Clueless, valueless and soon to be bankrupt. I wonder who
they will blame once the money is gone and we are facing the same ugly reality
as Greece? Maybe Occupy the White House movement will start up? If I am a CEO of
a major corporation I am looking at shutting down US operations and moving
elsewhere. There are actually countries doing the opposite of the US - turning
away from Socialism and moving to Capitalism. Better to get out now before
Barack sinks his teeth into your profits - what's left of them that is.
Catholics like the fact that Obama wants to force them to violate their beliefs
regarding contraception. Yes they love Obama for that one and that is why they
don't like Mitt because Mitt won't force them to violate their
conscious. Actually the truth is most Catholics only casually follow their
beliefs anyway and most only attend church at Christmas and Easter so what Obama
did was no big deal. I highly doubt their religious beliefs have anything to do
with how they vote. The bottom line is people in this country want free stuff -
as long as the money lasts and after that they could care less. Pretty sorry
country we belong to ... not even a shadow of the WWII era.
This article didn't get interesting until the last paragraph. People who
are devote religious people tend to like Romney and non believers and less
frequent church attenders are more likely to vote for Obama. Very interesting.
I think this may have something to do with the fact that his VP pick was openly
admonished by the Catholic leadership. They are concerned that the Ryan budget
plan causes massive harm to the poor and middle class and heavily rewards the
I'm not surprised at all. Where the Catholic heirarchy stands on issues and
how the Catholic laity vote diverge as often as not.