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Health care reform debate is a matter of life and death

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  • Community Engagement Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 6, 2012 12:07 p.m.

    Partnership and participation improves the chances of success and sustainability resulting in better policy development and promote effective social capital structures if Governor Herbert is successful in leading democratic partnerships. The process requires participatory democracy, equity between partners and power structures, and restructuring power relations to engaging the community effectively. Partnerships face considerable challenges empowering disadvantaged communities and improving their health and may unintentionally ensure continuity of insecurity and dependence for community-led initiatives by forcing communities, individuals, and health care systems to compete with each other for vital resources.
    •Public sector organizations compete for funds and must balance competing interest, such as focusing on economic factors perhaps to the exclusion of the more difficult issues of health inequalities and social exclusions to insure access to health care.
    •Potential conflicts between national policy and state or local priorities/issues advancing Utah as a state that is out of step with federal humanitarian concerns.
    •Democratic governmental structural limitation to be agile, quick and flexible in responses to issues.
    •Social capital concepts of trust, reciprocity and respect may be absent due to power structures when partnering with the state.

  • Sego Lilly Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 1:33 a.m.

    andyjaggy - how is it her fault that she has cancer? I know that if I get cancer even though I have done my best not to get this terrible disease that it is because I know that there are certain cancers that are hereditary in my family. So therefore it is NOT this person's fault for getting it. There are a number of cancers in my family that I could have inherited. If I should get diagnosed with one I guess it would be my fault that I have it because I was born.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Sept. 26, 2012 9:08 p.m.

    Sorry CHS 85. Your sarcasm just went over my head. And I agree with your post in every particular.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 5:50 p.m.

    The Health was written by an extreme leftest private organization funded wholly or in part by socialist billionaire George Soros,

    It was given to certain democrats to introduce to congress,

    that is why Pelosi said we must pass it first to find out what is in it (in obedience to her leftest masters),

    even the democrats didn't know.

    To suggest republicans had any part in it is just nonsensical rubbish.

    And in related news,

    Today, an official from the Obama administration just admitted (in so many words) there will be a need for "death panels" to control costs.

    this healthcare bill, in so many ways, was created and passed so corruptedly, and it will destroys freedom and will destroy this country financially.

    All that Obama is doing will, by current accounts will cost this country in excess of 20 trillion dollars, in known future costs.

    And SHAME on the left in trying to inject the religion (and SO WRONGLY is their understanding of scripture) into this discussion, aren't you the ones saying the church and state should be separate, or just hate religion in first place, or say religion should and must be private and not public policy?

  • Fern RL LAYTON, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 1:24 p.m.

    If by some miracle Romney is elected President this year, it seems like he would rather have the states do their own affordable health care plans. Rather than rely on a "wait and see" policy, why not look at the MassACT plan that Romney approved in part, and see if there is something there that Utah could replicate, and do it now? I would much rather have health care reform in state legislation of less than 100 pages than the 2,700 pages of the ACA.

    There is a site which displays the MassACT legislation with the parts vetoed by the governor and overturned by the legislature clearly marked. Since comments with links may not be posted here, you will have to find it yourself if you wish to see it. Pertinent information is that it is from the MA legislature Session Laws of 2006, Chapter 58.

  • kosimov Riverdale, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 12:14 p.m.

    The comments written here are so disjointed, it is impossible to agree or disagree with any of them!

    **** Obamacare was not written by "the democrats and republicans". It was written by SOME democrats who locked out republicans and other democrats. Why did we let them get away with breaking the law that way?

    **** It is true that both sides make the process difficult. It is supposed to be that way, to prevent one side from taking over (see above remark). Otherwise, you have what we now have: one man who is forcing his secret plans on everyone. If Obama wins, you will see just what that means!

    **** Why must people always think in extremes? It is possible, you know, to reform health care without the insanity of Obamacare! Obama has succeeded in convincing half of America that HE is the Savior of us all, while portraying Romney as the devil. I don't know if Romney can fix everything, but he can fix some things, and prevent Obama from his plan of subduing America and making us a second rate country to satisfy his arrogant view of what should be, and punish white men like me for the past.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    The ironic thing is that with the cancer diagnosis she falls into the "uninsurable" category. Falling into the "uninsurable" category qualifies her for HIPUtah, which cannot deny her, and will take her no matter what. The premiums for HIPUtah are no higher than for healthy people her same age, and depending on her income, will even discount her premiums based on income.

    The ACA is going to fail to cover people, and will cost tax payers a lot more money than the CBO claims. Just look at the Medicare Drug program, and all other health insurance programs the Feds administer. Also, think of it this way, if the Government can lose $60 billion/yr, 2 times the loss that private insurance companies lose combined, while insuring half as many people, what will happen when they add more people to their insurance rolls?

    To those who think that a government program is taking care of your neighbor, you are wrong. You are not helping your neighbor, you are paying Caeser to console your conscience.

  • Millsap fan Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    The sad truth is that although this law has many great benefits, like helping this woman and others, there are some scary pieces in this law that will inevitably hurt the economy.

    For example, the requirement for all businesses to purchase health care for full time employees will leave many companies losing nearly all profit. Also many companies will be forced to downsize, or cut employee hours. This will kill the jobs that businesses have created.

    My hope is that the Healthcare law is reformed (where needs be) not simply repealed. But as it stands now, it's going to hurt the economy.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Sept. 26, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
    Genesis 4:9

    Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:32-37 ESV)

    Yes, Cain you are your brother's keeper.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 26, 2012 10:11 a.m.

    Another interesting item mentioned by Dr. Marty Makary was that corruption in Greece's healthcare system has been a significant factor in their economic decline. Actually, corruption in general has been a big part of Greece's economic woes.

  • Dancing Queen West Haven, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    If Obamacare gets set in stone, the Federal Government will eventually become the only Insurance payer. That will be disastrous! Forget that we won't be able to afford it; it will destroy our economy. Socialized medicine is NOT the answer. I know a Canadian citizen who almost died, waiting to get into the Doctor!! I had Uterine Cancer in 2008--what scares me is the Death Panels. If they think you are too old or you won't survive your condition, you WON'T get treatment!! This is already happening in other countries with Socialized medicine!! We can improve things without Socialized medicine! In response to Sego Lily - the Law of Consecration is NOT Socialism!! In the last few General Conferences, many speakers have spoke out against Entitlements (that is Socialism)!! The Law of Consecration will be a small group with one heart and one mind centered on Jesus! Socialism is evil because it takes our agency away! That was the most important difference between Satan's plan and the plan of Jesus Christ!! The White House and Congress will NOT be under Obamacare! That is telling right there! Our Republic and Constitution was God inspired! It is not SOCIALISM!!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    The great thing about this country is that we can build stealth destroyers for the Navy at the cost of several hundred billion dollars, to stay ahead of the rest of the world, but when we want to catch up to the rest of the civilized world and provide healthcare for US citizens, half of the population and politicians are opposed to it. Never mind that fact that there hasn't been a pivotal naval battle for 60+ years.
    Head scratcher.

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 8:54 a.m.

    It's her own fault for getting cancer, tell her to take some personal responsibility for her life. Sarcasm implied.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    We need to repeal Romney, I mean Obamacare and make it much more difficult and more expensive for people to get treatment. That way for-profit health insurers can keep making huge profits on death and dying. Same for for-profit hospitals. Profits trump life.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    @Mike in Cedar City

    I was being sarcastic based on a comment made the by the Republican Presidential candidate.

    I am a HUGE supporter of the ACA, although I don't think it went far enough. How we treat the most vulnerable among us reflects on our society as a whole. As Americans and Utahns, we should be ashamed of the situation these folks find themselves in.

    Until an individual can get past the lower rungs of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, they will never be able to reach their potential and as a society, we will be lesser for it. There are those of us who truly need help and to shun them because of their disabilities is horrible.

  • chaliceman Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 8:27 a.m.

    The only way that health insurance companies can cover everyone is if everyone participates. This is the whole point of the National Health Care Act. This is not a socialistic system. Insurance companies and doctors will still have the right to set their prices and chose how to best serve their patients. Citizens who cannot afford premiums will have options, some of them subsidized by tax payers, to make sure that everyone has coverage. Whether we realize it or not, we are paying for the health care of the uninsured now through increased hospital, doctor and health care costs which could be viewed as a form of hidden tax. The reason for making the change is that if everyone has access to health care through out their life, they will be more productive, avoid expensive (at your and my expense) emergency care expenses, and the overall outcome will be a healthier, happier and more productive society. Let's do this.

  • DVD Taylorsville, 00
    Sept. 26, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    We are talking about some of our most vulnerable. How our nation of people treats them reflects upon our nation as a whole.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 26, 2012 7:57 a.m.

    ACA was witten over the course of several months. Republicans and Democrats in Congress worked on the plan in committees. Republicans have not crafted an alternative plan.

    There was a very interesting and worthwhile discussion on The Diane Rehm show Sept 19th with Dr. Marty Makary about healthcare. Dr. Makary talked about the need for transparency in healthcare--such as hospitals publishing accident/mortality rates. He talked about the "corporatization" of hospitals leading to unnecessary surgeries and procedures. He talked about physician "burnout" under the system where Drs. are pressured by the corporations to perform unecessary, but lucrative surgeries and treatments.

    I had a discussion with a Dr. recently who told me he thinks Obamacare/ACA is the best we can hope for at this point in time. He preferred single-payer. He stated although healthcare reform might lower his compensation some, it is important that we have a system to provide healthcare for all.

    Finally, recently astounded by the cost of surgery for a family member. He was in the hospital for about 4 hrs. The hospital billed our insurance $40,000. The insurance paid $5200 and our portion was $625. What would the uninsured be expected to pay?

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Sept. 26, 2012 7:49 a.m.

    I wonder how SME and CHS 85 would feel if they or a close family member were one of those "tragic" cases. There no real reason to wait. If Romney is elected and the Republicans get the Senate the law will be repealed to the detriment of all but the insurance industry. But repeal is not likely, and there is no reason for the state to hide behind an election before it decides whether or not it will elect to kill people.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 7:28 a.m.

    Just go to the Emergency Room.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 7:25 a.m.

    "We still don't know what's in those 2,700 pages of federal legislation," Herbert said. "And those 2,700 pages are spawning and will spawn thousands of pages of additional regulations."

    It's been law for two and a half years, and you are still pulling that?!? And this is the one that is deciding on whether or not it will expand the State's coverage?!? Honestly, if after two and a half years you haven't read it, or assigned someone on your staff to do so, it's on you. The thing has been online in it's entirety for two and a half years.

  • SME Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 6:16 a.m.

    I'm sure there are many stories like those of Ms. Young, they are truely tragic. But going down a path that we simply cannot afford will hurt far more people in the long run.

    Re: Well Read, yes "The federal government is kicking in the funds to help Utah afford the medicare add on." briefly. Then we will have a large commitment that we will be stuck with.

    The screams about we must do something, now!, are a smokescreen to keep from having a thorough discussion about what needs to be done and how to best do it. Many of the provisions of the "Affordable Care Act" (a misnomer) still haven't been written yet. We will be better off starting over with law that has been thoroughly discussed and has wide spread support.

  • Sego Lilly Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 12:49 a.m.

    Two comments - there is a medicaid program for women with breast cancer that covers the treatment. She may have to pay a spend down each month while on it but at least it will get her the treatment that she needs.

    Second comment: How many of you are LDS? Can you honestly say that you are willing to live the law of consecration should it become necessary in your lifetime? From the yelling at people to people to pull up their bootstraps and get a job - I think not. If President Monson holds a conference and says that it is time to give up all that you have which some you will end up getting back are you going to turn your back on the prophet and say sorry but it's the fault of the poor that they are that way - what's mine is mine and I'm not going to share.

    I walk along a street in SLC where there are several homeless people sleeping under trees. I walked by a couple on Friday and cried because I didn't know what I could do to help them. This shouldn't be happening in our neighborhoods.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 12:29 a.m.

    Amazing, is it not, that most of the bloggers here in this paper don't care that lives are at stake? Most are not worth exchanging views with.

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Sept. 25, 2012 10:36 p.m.

    Herbie,
    Hold off on doing what's right until after the election.
    It's the repub thing to do.

  • Blue Bolshevik Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2012 10:36 p.m.

    Tell the moochers to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and get a job. Why should my taxes go to pay for freeloaders. The health insurance industry is entitled to their profits and bonuses!

  • Well Read SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 25, 2012 9:07 p.m.

    It's a no brainer! Gov. Herbert do what is best for the citizens of the state of Utah. Do not opt out just because the program is a democrat backed program. The federal government is kicking in the funds to help Utah afford the medicare add on. Why should health insurance companies be allowed to opt out of carrying someone who has a pre-existing condition. That is criminal! They only want to carry the healthy individual. If one gets sick or has a pre-existing condition the want to kick them out! That is not the Urtah way. we are a caring state. We are better than that!!

    The program enacted by President Obama is not perfect, but could have been much better IF the republicans had not been so intent on making sure that Obama was one term president. They did not even try to negotiate in good faith! Do not go along with the DO NOTHING republican congress and keep Utah citizens who need health care out of the system just to spite the president!!!