Comments about ‘Utah's new online gun permit renewal attacked, defended’

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Published: Sunday, Sept. 16 2012 5:05 p.m. MDT

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Flying Finn
Murray, UT

@ Beverly

There is no linkage between CCW (concealed carry) permits and deaths by firearms in any home, by anyone, at any age. So what is your point in mentioning two recent deaths of children, one whose father is a police officer?

The homeowner in Springville who shot and killed the robber in his bedroom didn't need a CCW permit either. If you want to hear fear go online to youtube and listen to the woman begging the police to hurry because a man was kicking down her bedroom door.

suzyk#1
Mount Pleasant, UT

I am a woman and I have a concealed weapon carry permit I got in Arizona. My husband encouraged it because he felt I should be more knowledgeable and capable of protecting myself if the occasion arose. He takes me target shooting, teaches me about safety and helps me feel more comfortable about the whole thing. The most important thing about being a gun owner is being a responsible one, knowing all about that gun and how and when to use it. I am working on overcoming my fear of what it can do but best of all I am learning the importance of being prepared and will know how to protect my loved ones, friends or neighbors if the situation should arise. The world we live in now, requires us to be prepared, to be wise with our knowledge and to use common sense.

  • 8:26 a.m. Sept. 17, 2012
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snowman
Provo, UT

Aggielove

"Utah.
The last place the Feds want to go, to take away the guns."

They won't take them away because they can't.

Dave Duncan
Orem, UT

Yes, public safety should trump saving a few bucks. But the evidence shows, overwhelmingly, that easy access to concealed carry permits reduces violent crime.

Thus this should actually save a few bucks AND increase the public safety, by more easily keeping permits up to date for law-abiding citizens.

The notion that this is somehow "unsafe" for the public is ludicrous. That's simply a knee-jerk reaction by those who only want the government and criminals to have guns.

Flying Finn
Murray, UT

@ snowman

Since the Feds can take away our firearms the anti-gun crowd needs to learn to deal with their unreasonable hysteria on the subject.

When you drive a vehicle in Nevada they honor your Utah driver's license. Are you suggesting that we get a driver's license in each separate state we plan to cross through?

Reciprocity is a big word that makes a lot of sense for those who understand it.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

The Obama Administration demonstrated it's mentality with regard to private ownership of firearms with something called "Operation Fast and Furious". It resulted in the arming of Mexican drug cartels and the murder of an US border patrol agent. Everyone involved in that botched plan has since developed amnesia.

Fred44
Salt Lake City, Utah

Rifleman,

Actually no you cannot renew your drivers license online or over the internet any more.

OHBU
Columbus, OH

"e. Fundamental human rights like self defense must not be subject to arbitrary restrictions. Would you support grammar and spelling tests for a "journalist" license, or some sort of Bible quiz before someone can be a Rabbi, Bishop or Pastor?"

In short...yes. I do think journalists should be able to spell, Pastors should know the Bible they preach, and gun-owners should know how to shoot. Why is this a hard concept? While journalists don't have "licenses" they do have to have a degree. Likewise, most churches require their leaders to attend a seminary and graduate.

Can you imagine if Driver's licenses didn't require actually driving?

EndOfAnError-01/20/2013
Atlanta, GA

I have a CCP issued in Georgia. There was no test of any kind other than a background check. I did not have to take a class. I did not have to demonstrate proficiency with a gun. I just paid my fees, gave some finger prints and received the permit about three weeks later.

I am sure the lefties think I am a ticking time bomb and will just start shooting people at any minute. No, but I am ready should someone else attempt to do such.

I have always found it interesting that the extremists on the left are so opposed to any individual having the right to carry a gun. Yet every time a criminal uses a gun to wreak violence upon society, the lefties immediate action is to call 911 and ask that someone with a gun come and save them.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
"Rifleman, Actually no you cannot renew your drivers license online or over the internet any more."

From the Utah DMV web site updated Fri. 5/18/2012: "A Utah Driver's License can be renewed online, by mail or in person at any driver license office in the State. Every alternate renewal has to be made in person." If they've got it wrong someone should let them know.

Those who don't like Utah's concealed carry laws really only have one option: They can complain about it while praying that the anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment crowd gain a majority in the Utah legislature.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

MajMarine said:
"Beverly--the most recent incident involved the child of a police officer. How would you address that?"

It wasn't his service revolver, it was another gun just lying about and was eye level to a two year old.
How would you address that? Jail Time?

Yes, why can't I buy alcohol thru the mail? I can get a permit that allows me to carry a weapon, made to kill, hidden from view, without showing the least amount of ability to use it.
Why not offer driving licenses to out of state drivers who have never driven, At least they aren't in are state, right?

Liberty or Death
Taylorsville, UT

The 2nd amendment guarantees our right to bear arms. It is my opinion that there is no need to even have concealed carry permits, the 2nd amendment already provides for the right to carry. There are state and federal laws that prohibit the possession of firearms by those who have lost that right due to violating the law. Law abiding citizens should be able to carry without the need for a state or federal CCW.

Flashback
Kearns, UT

A drivers license without practice? Really. I guess Joe Blow has never seen a teenager drive. OR an elderly person with lots of experience but slow reaction time.

Bottom line, the on-line thing is faster, better, cheaper and they still have your finger prints on file if they need to compare you to the lastes serial criminal.

Killing License? Get real. The only people that have those are the 00 agents.

Seriously, the term Killing License is just a really dumb term. I don't feel that I have the right to kill anyone just because I have a Concealed Firearm Permit.

I would consider, under the same logic, a Drivers License would definately be Killing License since here in Utah, way more people are killed by cars every year than are killed by Concealed Firearm Permit holders. Like say many to none?

Flying Finn
Murray, UT

@ Happy Valley Heretic

When we start jailing people for allowing their children to falling out of windows to their deaths then, perhaps, we may consider putting people in jail for accidents involving firearms.

After you are elected to the Utah legislature perhaps you can work to get our firearms laws changed. Doubtful, but always worth a try.

Tequila
Salt Lake City, UT

Cars kill a lot more people than guns so lets take away your rights to buy automobils or your right to drive in other states on state licenses. The reason we have the right to keep and bear arms is that the framers of our constitution wanted to ensure our ability to overthrow the kinds of governments that we are getting dangerously close to having right now. I have serious worries about a government that would find Obamacare constitutional as it denies us what our constitution guarantees us, basically the right to choose.

Tequila
Salt Lake City, UT

Cars kill more people than guns in this country. Imagine how many people we could save by not allowing Utah drivers to drive in other states or not allowing cars to be sold in Utah. The reason that the right to keep and bear arms is constitutionally guaranteed is that the framers wanted the people to always have the means to over-throw their government if and when it failed
to provide what we are guaranteed by the constitution. Obamacare is unconstitutional because it
violates our right to choose. It doesn't matter how Roberts bends interpretation to arrive at the wrong conclusions to cram down our throats. We are getting dangerously close to the reason for the right to keep and bear arms.

Flying Finn
Murray, UT

@ Happy Valley Heretic

How much time should a smoker serve in jail when he falls asleep on the couch and his cigarette causes a fire that kills his children? Accidents happen and people die as a result. It is no more or less tragic when a child dies in a car accident as in a gun accident. Thank goodness this isn't Chicago where only criminals carry handguns.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Are cars or windows specifically designed to kill?
Is the only purpose for windows to kill?

Unforeseen accidents happen, but leaving a gun loaded on a coffee table when children are about, is really not an accident is it?

Gun safety by mail is no more sufficient than teaching someone to drive by mail with no car.

as soon as you can compare Apples to Apples we'll talk.

Flying Finn said:Thank goodness this isn't Chicago where only criminals carry handguns.
No, it's Utah where firearms are left laying around for anyone who would like shoot them.
How many fires were started in Chicago this year by 2nd amendment Enthusiast?

The worship of firearms wrapped in the 2 amendment is not an admirable quality.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Happy Valley Heretic" guns are not designed to kill either. They are designed to fire bullets. I could shoot blanks in my back yard all day long and never harm a thing.

Bullets are designed to kill, not guns.

If you are talking about buying permits to kill over the internet, take a look at the Fish and Game division. I can buy fishing licenses and hunting licenses without ever stepping inside of a government office. Those are licenses to kill various animals. I can even take a hunter's safety class online. That is equal to the course required to get the conceal carry permit.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

Tis whole crock about people needing "training" is just that, a crock. The truth is a person needs very little "training" all they need is common sense and no amopunt of "training" will instill that in a person.

All a person needs to be taught to do is how to handle the gun safely in the presence of other people. You know, don't point it at them, pay attention to where it is pointed, always treat it as if it is loaded, etc. From there just don't be stupid.

As far as any sort of intensive training in marksmanship or any practice is concerned those are entirely unnecessary to simply own or handle a gun. Sure practice will make you a better marksman and more proficient, but thsoe are irrelevent to simply not being an idiot with your gun.

Claiming those should be requirments for a permit are just more lame excuses to try and keep people from getting a permit or else make it much more difficult to get one. in otherwords it comes from people with an anti gun, anti concealed, agenda.

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