Everyone needs a gun?
Why is Utah in the business of giving residents of other states permits to carry
concealed weapons? How does that advance Utah's interests?
one voteSalt Lake City, UTEveryone needs a gun?No. Only
the law-abiding citizens do. Especially since the criminal element couldn't
care less about any laws, permits, registration, etc.
@ hand: Because it is a cash cow, and it is way easyer to get one
in Utah than in any other State.
Whats the big deal about on-line renewal. I fully support it.If one
wants to question something it would be this"just because the
state does not require shooting as part of the concealed carry training
doesn't mean people aren't getting it. Many instructors, he said,
include live shooting in their classes."How is the actual
shooting of a gun not a requirement?That is staggering.
Live fire is not a requirement for several reasons:a. The potential
for bureaucrats to impose ridiculous standards to prevent people from getting a
permit.b. In 90% of cases where a legally possessed firearm is used
to stop a criminal act, NO SHOTS ARE FIRED.c. Most self defense
shootings occur at ranges of 7 yards or less.d. No one would argue
against the desirability for permit holders to practice to gain/maintain
proficiency, but not everyone has access to ranges to do that.e.
Fundamental human rights like self defense must not be subject to arbitrary
restrictions. Would you support grammar and spelling tests for a
"journalist" license, or some sort of Bible quiz before someone can be a
Rabbi, Bishop or Pastor?At least four states currently do NOT
require ANY sort of permit or training for law abiding citizens to legally carry
self defense weapons. There is no evidence that this has created more dangerous
situations than among states which do not have permits at all, or states with
permits and strong or weak qualifications. Quit hassling the law
abiding folks and go prosecute criminals who are illegally carrying guns and
Whats wrong lefties......why are you so up in arms over a few gun permits when
you support Iran nukes?
DNYou make some good points and some not so good ones."No one would argue against the desirability for permit holders to
practice to gain/maintain proficiency"Maintain proficiency is
one thing. Gaining proficiency should be mandatory.You really think
spelling and carrying a gun are in the same league? (and do journalists even
need licenses?)Do you support drivers licenses without hands on
experience? What is the difference?"Fundamental human rights
like self defense must not be subject to arbitrary restrictions."Do you consider a CCP requirement an "arbitrary restriction?Should
a law abiding citizen be allowed to carry into a bar? How about a
courtroom? Should I have the right to ban them from my business? Church?
School?Do you support any restrictions, license or training?
Re: "Do you consider a CCP requirement an "arbitrary
restriction?"Of course it's an arbitrary requirement. It
adds nothing to safety or security. It's designed purely to introduce a
regulatory hassle into the process, in a vain attempt to mollify liberals.Since the system doesn't even pay for itself, and since liberals
refuse to be mollified by anything we do anyway, the requirement should be done
Re: TruthWhy don't you try seeking the truth before spouting off.
You sound just like Willard. I'm a "Lefty", own five handguns and
a shotgun and have a Utah concealed weapon permit and think online registration
is a good idea.
DN Subscriber: There are ranges everywhere where people can go practice. There
are at least 8 in the county where I live
Utah has no business "selling" concealed carry permits in other states.
It's illegal to buy liquor in other states and bring into Utah but
Utah can sell killing licensees through out the United States? In Utah, money
is a priority to safety.Our legislators should wear NASCAR type clothing
so we know what corporations they represent.
"but Utah can sell killing licensees"A bit over the top, ya
think?"why are you so up in arms over a few gun permits when you
support Iran nukes?"Over the top again?How about we stick
to a reasonable and logical discussion of the related issues.On both
sides.Procur - Utah is the reddest of the red states. I highly
doubt that you can pin all of the many gun laws in Utah on "liberals".
Re: one vote Salt Lake City, UT"Everyone needs a gun?"No, and everyone isn't eligible to possess one. For those who currently
posses a concealed carry permit online renewals make perfect sense. For those
who qualify you can renew your driver's license online, and driving
isn't even a right protected by the US Constitution.Thank
heaves for the two recent US Supreme Court rulings that upheld individual
American's right to own and bear firearms. (Note to the anti-gun crowd:
One of those two rulings held that the 2nd Amendment does not apply to states
and their militias.)
On-line Concealed Weapon's permits, full support of the Tea Party, strong
commitment to the death penalty, wanting all immigrants sent home, Utah is
building quite a reputation for decisions based on fear. It was only a few years
ago we gave up the firing squad. Do you think the rest of America thinks like
this? Fear is driving Utah into the dark ages. Most guns are used against
family members. Two small children have accidently shot themselves with the
"readily available" guns in Utah homes in the past month. Our collective
fear is driving decisions based on nonsense.
Would someone show me where the authority comes from "constitutionally"
that gives the stateauthority to control the peoples right to have, carry
and control weapons in the first place.It sure doesn't come from the
constitution which is the law of the land and has never been changed other than
by so called interpretation by by liberal (another word for socialist)judges.
owlmaster2Kaysville, UTUtah has no business "selling"
concealed carry permits in other states. It's illegal to buy liquor
in other states and bring into Utah but Utah can sell killing licensees through
out the United States? In Utah, money is a priority to safety.Our
legislators should wear NASCAR type clothing so we know what corporations they
represent.First--there are many states that "sell"
CCP's in other states (Nevada and Arizona, among others). In fact, you can
get a CCP from Arizona on-line (I'm not talking about a renewal, this is
the initial issue). "Killing Licensees (sp)"?Wow. Hyperbole is the
best thing ever, don't ya think? Any idea what percent of CCP holders
commit "murder" vs non-CCP holders? And Beverly--are talking
about Utah, or Arizona? BTW--"readily available" guns is not really
germane to the subject of CCP issue or renewal. And as far as the rest of
America thinking like this" Yeah, pretty much.
I just mailed my renewal in last Friday. I wish I'd known about the online
option before that.
"Two small children have accidently shot themselves with the "readily
available" guns in Utah homes in the past month."Beverly--the most recent incident involved the child of a police officer. How
would you address that?Owlmaster2--when you refer to "killing
licenses", are you talking about concealed carry permits, or drivers
licenses? More people are killed by licensed drivers than by concealed carry
Utah.The last place the Feds want to go, to take away the guns.
@ BeverlyThere is no linkage between CCW (concealed carry) permits
and deaths by firearms in any home, by anyone, at any age. So what is your
point in mentioning two recent deaths of children, one whose father is a police
officer?The homeowner in Springville who shot and killed the robber
in his bedroom didn't need a CCW permit either. If you want to hear fear
go online to youtube and listen to the woman begging the police to hurry because
a man was kicking down her bedroom door.
I am a woman and I have a concealed weapon carry permit I got in Arizona. My
husband encouraged it because he felt I should be more knowledgeable and capable
of protecting myself if the occasion arose. He takes me target shooting, teaches
me about safety and helps me feel more comfortable about the whole thing. The
most important thing about being a gun owner is being a responsible one, knowing
all about that gun and how and when to use it. I am working on overcoming my
fear of what it can do but best of all I am learning the importance of being
prepared and will know how to protect my loved ones, friends or neighbors if the
situation should arise. The world we live in now, requires us to be prepared, to
be wise with our knowledge and to use common sense.
Aggielove"Utah.The last place the Feds want to go, to take
away the guns."They won't take them away because they
Yes, public safety should trump saving a few bucks. But the evidence shows,
overwhelmingly, that easy access to concealed carry permits reduces violent
crime. Thus this should actually save a few bucks AND increase the
public safety, by more easily keeping permits up to date for law-abiding
citizens. The notion that this is somehow "unsafe" for the
public is ludicrous. That's simply a knee-jerk reaction by those who only
want the government and criminals to have guns.
@ snowmanSince the Feds can take away our firearms the anti-gun
crowd needs to learn to deal with their unreasonable hysteria on the subject.When you drive a vehicle in Nevada they honor your Utah driver's
license. Are you suggesting that we get a driver's license in each
separate state we plan to cross through?Reciprocity is a big word
that makes a lot of sense for those who understand it.
The Obama Administration demonstrated it's mentality with regard to private
ownership of firearms with something called "Operation Fast and
Furious". It resulted in the arming of Mexican drug cartels and the murder
of an US border patrol agent. Everyone involved in that botched plan has since
Rifleman,Actually no you cannot renew your drivers license online or
over the internet any more.
"e. Fundamental human rights like self defense must not be subject to
arbitrary restrictions. Would you support grammar and spelling tests for a
"journalist" license, or some sort of Bible quiz before someone can be a
Rabbi, Bishop or Pastor?"In short...yes. I do think journalists
should be able to spell, Pastors should know the Bible they preach, and
gun-owners should know how to shoot. Why is this a hard concept? While
journalists don't have "licenses" they do have to have a degree.
Likewise, most churches require their leaders to attend a seminary and graduate.
Can you imagine if Driver's licenses didn't require
I have a CCP issued in Georgia. There was no test of any kind other than a
background check. I did not have to take a class. I did not have to demonstrate
proficiency with a gun. I just paid my fees, gave some finger prints and
received the permit about three weeks later.I am sure the lefties
think I am a ticking time bomb and will just start shooting people at any
minute. No, but I am ready should someone else attempt to do such.I
have always found it interesting that the extremists on the left are so opposed
to any individual having the right to carry a gun. Yet every time a criminal
uses a gun to wreak violence upon society, the lefties immediate action is to
call 911 and ask that someone with a gun come and save them.
Re: Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah"Rifleman, Actually no you cannot renew
your drivers license online or over the internet any more."From
the Utah DMV web site updated Fri. 5/18/2012: "A Utah Driver's License
can be renewed online, by mail or in person at any driver license office in the
State. Every alternate renewal has to be made in person." If they've
got it wrong someone should let them know.Those who don't like
Utah's concealed carry laws really only have one option: They can complain
about it while praying that the anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment crowd gain a
majority in the Utah legislature.
MajMarine said:"Beverly--the most recent incident involved the child
of a police officer. How would you address that?"It wasn't
his service revolver, it was another gun just lying about and was eye level to a
two year old. How would you address that? Jail Time?Yes, why
can't I buy alcohol thru the mail? I can get a permit that allows me to
carry a weapon, made to kill, hidden from view, without showing the least amount
of ability to use it. Why not offer driving licenses to out of state
drivers who have never driven, At least they aren't in are state, right?
The 2nd amendment guarantees our right to bear arms. It is my opinion that there
is no need to even have concealed carry permits, the 2nd amendment already
provides for the right to carry. There are state and federal laws that prohibit
the possession of firearms by those who have lost that right due to violating
the law. Law abiding citizens should be able to carry without the need for a
state or federal CCW.
A drivers license without practice? Really. I guess Joe Blow has never seen a
teenager drive. OR an elderly person with lots of experience but slow reaction
time.Bottom line, the on-line thing is faster, better, cheaper and
they still have your finger prints on file if they need to compare you to the
lastes serial criminal.Killing License? Get real. The only people
that have those are the 00 agents.Seriously, the term Killing
License is just a really dumb term. I don't feel that I have the right to
kill anyone just because I have a Concealed Firearm Permit.I would
consider, under the same logic, a Drivers License would definately be Killing
License since here in Utah, way more people are killed by cars every year than
are killed by Concealed Firearm Permit holders. Like say many to none?
@ Happy Valley HereticWhen we start jailing people for allowing
their children to falling out of windows to their deaths then, perhaps, we may
consider putting people in jail for accidents involving firearms. After you are elected to the Utah legislature perhaps you can work to get our
firearms laws changed. Doubtful, but always worth a try.
Cars kill a lot more people than guns so lets take away your rights to buy
automobils or your right to drive in other states on state licenses. The reason
we have the right to keep and bear arms is that the framers of our constitution
wanted to ensure our ability to overthrow the kinds of governments that we are
getting dangerously close to having right now. I have serious worries about a
government that would find Obamacare constitutional as it denies us what our
constitution guarantees us, basically the right to choose.
Cars kill more people than guns in this country. Imagine how many people we
could save by not allowing Utah drivers to drive in other states or not allowing
cars to be sold in Utah. The reason that the right to keep and bear arms is
constitutionally guaranteed is that the framers wanted the people to always have
the means to over-throw their government if and when it failedto provide
what we are guaranteed by the constitution. Obamacare is unconstitutional
because itviolates our right to choose. It doesn't matter how Roberts
bends interpretation to arrive at the wrong conclusions to cram down our
throats. We are getting dangerously close to the reason for the right to keep
and bear arms.
@ Happy Valley HereticHow much time should a smoker serve in jail
when he falls asleep on the couch and his cigarette causes a fire that kills his
children? Accidents happen and people die as a result. It is no more or less
tragic when a child dies in a car accident as in a gun accident. Thank goodness
this isn't Chicago where only criminals carry handguns.
Are cars or windows specifically designed to kill?Is the only purpose for
windows to kill?Unforeseen accidents happen, but leaving a gun
loaded on a coffee table when children are about, is really not an accident is
it?Gun safety by mail is no more sufficient than teaching someone to
drive by mail with no car.as soon as you can compare Apples to
Apples we'll talk.Flying Finn said:Thank goodness this
isn't Chicago where only criminals carry handguns.No, it's Utah
where firearms are left laying around for anyone who would like shoot them.How many fires were started in Chicago this year by 2nd amendment
Enthusiast?The worship of firearms wrapped in the 2 amendment is not
an admirable quality.
To "Happy Valley Heretic" guns are not designed to kill either. They
are designed to fire bullets. I could shoot blanks in my back yard all day long
and never harm a thing.Bullets are designed to kill, not guns.If you are talking about buying permits to kill over the internet, take
a look at the Fish and Game division. I can buy fishing licenses and hunting
licenses without ever stepping inside of a government office. Those are
licenses to kill various animals. I can even take a hunter's safety class
online. That is equal to the course required to get the conceal carry permit.
Tis whole crock about people needing "training" is just that, a crock.
The truth is a person needs very little "training" all they need is
common sense and no amopunt of "training" will instill that in a
person.All a person needs to be taught to do is how to handle the
gun safely in the presence of other people. You know, don't point it at
them, pay attention to where it is pointed, always treat it as if it is loaded,
etc. From there just don't be stupid.As far as any sort of
intensive training in marksmanship or any practice is concerned those are
entirely unnecessary to simply own or handle a gun. Sure practice will make you
a better marksman and more proficient, but thsoe are irrelevent to simply not
being an idiot with your gun. Claiming those should be requirments
for a permit are just more lame excuses to try and keep people from getting a
permit or else make it much more difficult to get one. in otherwords it comes
from people with an anti gun, anti concealed, agenda.
Can't see a problem. Those that have a CFP are actually having a background
check daily (continually). If they are convicted of certain crimes the CFP
becomes invalid instantly. There really is no difference in a paper
application and that done online. The renewal is basically a fee to cover the
costs associated with the administration of the permits and the continual
background checks we as law abiding citizens have agreed to. The online renewal
is efficient and more cost effective for the state.Also the CFP
permit program is self sustaining (actually the state makes a little profit).Law abiding citizens, Pack’em if you got em!
I am for people having their own guns. Guns don't shoot by themselves.
Children should never know where a gun is kept. It's the owners
responsible to make sure that no one else can find the gun, there aren't
any bullets in it or with it and wherever it is, the container is locked and the
owner is the only person who has access to it.
Why should the government require you to have a permit in order to exercise a