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Comments about ‘Free speech zones suspended in Brigham City’

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Published: Friday, Sept. 14 2012 8:05 p.m. MDT

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Wonder
Provo, UT

@AZRods -- No, I haven't seen the government putting up blocks around Islamic celebrations. To be truthful, I haven't seen any huge outdoor Islamic celebrations, so perhaps that is why. However, if someone were trying to peacefully protest these celebrations and the government would not allow it, I feel confident that the ACLU would step in.

NedGrimley
Brigham City, UT

Flashback: Really?? You might have had some creedence without that quip. Probably best that you stayed in Kearns...

Obviously very few people read and or understand the actual points of what is going on here. So no further regurgitation of the reality of the situation is warranted.

Main Street Church can now press forward in their efforts to save the Mormons from themselves. Party on!

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

@Wonder

I respectfully disagree with your post
Yes; the ACLU is very active in enforcing the non-Establishment clause of the First Amendment, but often at the expense of the non-interference clause and the free speech clause (regarding religion) by pushing for a hard line suppression of religious speech in most, if not all, public venues.

The ACLU fails to comprehend that mere accommodation of religious expression, is not the same as governmental establishment of religion, but suppression of religious speech is a suppression of free speech (and tacit establishment of atheism as the enforced religion).

mightymite
DRAPER, UT

I love the smell of victory. THe ruling party has kept the 'Gentiles" down to long. I like this pattern of reason.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"Yes; the ACLU is very active in enforcing the non-Establishment clause of the First Amendment, but often at the expense of the non-interference clause and the free speech clause (regarding religion) by pushing for a hard line suppression of religious speech in most, if not all, public venues."

Another ACLU case was in Santa Fe Texas - (June 19, 2000) where the ACLU sided with a Catholic and Mormon family to stop student led prayer before football games.

Seems the heavily Baptist community didn't want to play nice with those religious persuasions.

Wonder
Provo, UT

Regarding Joe Blow's comment -- I'm not familiar with that case, but it doesn't surprise me. It illustrates what I was saying in my earlier posts that the ACLU is not anti-religion or anti-Christian. In the case Joe Blow describes, the Baptist community would think that the ACLU is "against religion" because it represented someone who was fighting the "establishment" of the Baptist religion. However, that wouldn't be the way the Catholic or LDS people in that example saw it. That said, Counter Intelligence, I think you might have a point in your earlier comment about the ACLU not protecting the rights of protestors at abortion clinics. I've seen some articles that claim that they have not protected those protestors to the same extent they have protected other types of speech. I have no reason to believe those articles are wrong, but I still think, in general, the ACLU stands for protecting Constitutional rights regardless of political persuasion.

twinb
Brigham City, UT

The whole thing is rediculous! The extra traffic AND foot traffic here has been amazing, and the city only did this for safety and traffic control. For those many,many thousands who have come here to tour the temple, the crowds (especially in the evenings and on Labor Day) have been amazing, long lines, etc. If we had to deal with protestors getting in the way, it would have been disastrous! It wasn't like the city banned them from handing out their anti pamphlets, they were given ample area to waste their time. The ACLU could have it's place, but more often than not, they're a bunch of misguided liberals and wasting time and money on such cases! Seriously!

Also, you don't see Mormons out picketing or protesting at other church's functions! What happened to being Christ-like?

For those of us who aren't just visiting Brigham City, but live here, it's been nice to have a bit of control and safety concern from the city. They should be applauded, not condemned. No one's freedom of speech was EVER denied!

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Wonder - Google Santa Fe School Prayer. Comes up first.

Twinb

Picketing and passing out literature at a temple open house is certainly in poor taste.
Very few would disagree. Although they probably had intentions of saving some souls.

"Giving them ample area to waste their time" is not really the point. Obviously, all who would be protested would love to get to pick a spot for the protesters to protest. Kinda defeats the purpose.

This is one of those things, just like the guy who made the derogatory film on Islam. We wish they didn't do it, and while we denounce the message,shouldn't we stand up for their right to do it?

That applies even in areas that affect us personally.

Lastly to Cottagecheese who posts "Sarcasm, cynicism and mockery. Did YOU learn that in Church?"

I am sarcastic and a cynic at times. God made me that way.
But, don't you see just the slightest bit of irony when a guy, going to a temple, wants to punch another guy for passing out religious literature.

Cmon, not even a little bit amusing?

indycrimson
Franklin, IN

Nice post AZRods...
I think most civil Americans react inwardly or outwardly like your friend did. Deep in our American souls, lies not only those rights of free speech but the clarity of civility. It bothers some and motivates others.

I wouldn't picket my old girl friends wedding, or enemies funeral...or find respect for a church who does something like this church in Brigham City did. Free speech? Yep! Civil? Nope!

I think to most descent Americans these two principles travel in the same bag.

cambodia girl
Phnom Penh, Cambodia

People complain about not being able to go into the LDS Temples. This is exactly why Temples are not show places. Unity, love and peace abide inside Temples that cannot be felt anywhere else. I'm thankful for that.

CP
Tooele, UT

Looks to me times haven't changed since Jesus, Our Savior, was on the Earth. Whenever he did something good the Pharises and certain lawyers always were there causing problems. Well, now it's the ACLU that have taken the roll of the Pharisee. But, it's a shame that this Main Street Church doesn't want to rejoice in glad tidings with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that their is a beautiful Temple there for all to see. Instead they have chosen to have a not so Christ like attitude about it and act disruptive instead of peaceful.

ute alumni
Tengoku, UT

joe blow
i dealt with your bubbas when there was an open house at the Columbia Temple. I told them then and I'll tell you now, biggoted people will not move the church anywhere. Get use to it. It is not the mid 1800s. BTW, just exactly did you learn from your church?

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"BTW, just exactly did you learn from your church?"

I learned that religion/churches are mostly about money, power and control.

justme001
Salt Lake, UT

Rational

None of the things you listed were don in front of the temple. Now I someone can sit in front of your home (as long as they are on the sidewalk not touching your property, or blocking passage) and distribute flyers of a nature you may not believe in. There would not be anything you could do about it, you can call the police and complain, but as long as they are not on your property or blocking the way they can do this.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

These people really are pathetic and need to get a life. I feel sorry for them.

snowman
Provo, UT

justme001;

"Now I someone can sit in front of your home (as long as they are on the sidewalk not touching your property, or blocking passage) and distribute flyers of a nature you may not believe in. There would not be anything you could do about it, you can call the police and complain, but as long as they are not on your property or blocking the way they can do this."

Actually no they can not. In most cities they need a permit to distribute fliers or even knock on doors.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

the aclu has defended the LDS missionaries right to go door to door postalizing something everyone on this thread likes to pretend never happened.

JWB
Kaysville, UT

When one of their attornies died, that didn't stop this type of action. This is not an issue of free-speech and is of public safety. What was the intent of that man when he filed the law suit. Did the ACLU come to him to push his rights? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has had similar incidents as have parents and families of military personnel when they had funerals. We live in a free country where people can express freedom of speech. There was plenty of space for these people to do what they wanted to do. They could have gone to parking lots at both ends of town, where people who went to the temple boarded buses to hand out their material. The temple parking lots and entrances to and from the parking lot had a lot of activity. This is not a large temple with an expansive parking lot. The other parking lots had people waiting to get on the bus with ample opportunity for people to hand out pamphlets without as much congestion. The temple ground is a place to meditate and think about the beautiful message the work will be.

AZ Blue & Red
Gilbert, AZ

Usually several of those that protest are somewhat curious. I say that we invite them to tour the temple. We could babysit their signs while they go. Maybe they will feel something there. Betting some will become interested.

I have a good friend that has protested the AZ Easter Pageant with his "Christian" church. I told him that we do not protest his church and beliefs. My son did his Eagle project for his church. So this year I asked him to come to the pageant and be on the other side. He was coming but ended up in the Hospital. But he is planning on it this year.
If you have some lemons make lemonade. I do not appreciate people demonstrating but I also understand they have that right. I have the right to knock on their door too and often they do not appreciate it as well. But reading some of the posts it looks like we all need to go back to being a Sunbeam or Sunday School at other churches or just the Golden Rule. If this and any other Temple did not bring some controversy I would be disappointed.

Furry1993
Ogden, UT

to Wonder

The case is Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000).

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