There can be religious liberals, but liberalism is opposed to religion.The modern liberalism that developed from the Progressive movement is
Nietzschean, positivist, and pragmatist. We tend to think that word has a more
positive meaning than it does. The philosophical school of Pragmatism holds
that there is no objective, transcendent source of values, truth, or natural
law. Law is what we, the people, choose to call law -- nothing more nor less.
One man's dogma is another man's absurdity. To the extent there
exists anything resembling an objective moral standard, it results from a cold
utilitarian calculus -- the greatest good for the greatest number -- because man
is the measure of all things, and since God is dead, making the lives of as many
people as physically pleasant as we can is all we can hope to manage.Most garden-variety liberals don't necessarily think their beliefs all
the way down to this bleak and Godless foundation, but it *is* the foundation
under all the cliches. I would love to see a reborn liberalism that affirms
natural law, and hope there are enough liberals of good will to bring it about.
In fairness to Cardinal Dolan, there's a bit of a religious culture gap
here. In many Christian churches, a prayer from the pulpit is as much homily as
it is prayer. In Mormon worship, one who offers the invocation or the
benediction prays on behalf of the assembled congregation, with the Amens added
by each individual to signify that the uttered prayer is their prayer as well.
The LDS Churches’ positions on abortion and same-sex marriage
is indistinguishable from those of the Catholic Church. But these issues are
rarely if ever even alluded to in prayer at an LDS meeting.
Hmmmm. Reminds me of an equally challenged comment by another religious leader.
Congratulations to both for having the courage to stand up and be counted for
sallys,".....I agree that prayers should be directed to the
Lord, not the audience, but there's nothing wrong with chastising the
audience, especially when the members thereof so richly deserve it."If his intent is chastising people for not holding the same view he
holds, posting in an Internet discussion site would be a more appropriate venue
for that effort. Cardinal Dolan is intelligent enough to know that.
@ lost in DC 12:16 p.m. Sept. 7, 2012Would that be the letter to the
Danbury Baptists which essentially says there is a wall preventing traffic in
both directions?re: Craig Clark 2:47 p.m. Sept. 7, 2012Agreed. You have hit the nail on the head.
God bless you Cardinal Dolan.
Isn't it interesting how those who disobey the Lord get incensed by someone
who respects Jesus? Yes, it's interesting how they recognized condemnation
of themselves in Cardinal Timothy Dolan's innocuous prayer. "Thus do we
praise you for the gift of life," Dolan said. "Grant us to defend it.
Life, without which no other rights are secure. We ask your benediction on those
waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected." What should
Christians do, defend innocent life, or take it? Timothy Dolan would make a much
better President than Obama. In fact, I'd vote for him if he were running,
because he has the sense to humble himself before God.Responding to
Craig Clark: I agree that prayers should be directed to the Lord, not the
audience, but there's nothing wrong with chastising the audience,
especially when the members thereof so richly deserve it.
I may be a stuffy traditionalist but these 'prayers' that are offered
at such gatherings are more like orations than prayers. If it's a
performance for an audience, it's not really an earnest supplication to
God, now is it?
Rifleman:[Probably why atheists pray vocally and loudly as their airplane
is headed directly into a cliff.]Well, its a good thing you survived
the crash, otherwise you wouldn't be here to relate this, undoubtedly true,
story.[There are, after all, no atheists in fox holes.]Or Christians in Academia...Neither statement is true, of course,
but if you can say your lie, I can say mine.
Rifle, that's one take, another is that they would be cursing the
Re: RanchHand Huntsville, UT"This is why prayers are between you and
god and nobody else."Probably why atheists pray vocally and
loudly as their airplane is headed directly into a cliff. There are, after all,
no atheists in fox holes.
Sorry RanchHand,Jefferson wrote the first statute guaranteeing
religious freedom to prevent religion from being excluded from the public
This is why prayers are between you and god and nobody else.