@the waccerutah finished with a losing conference record in every
single sport but women's soccer last season.utah's
"fan" base consists of people like you.utah lost AT HOME to
one of the worst teams in college football last year.utah's
mens basketball team is widely considered to be the worst team in the nation
from any so called "major conference".utah couldn't
even acheive a winning pac12 record last season with a stacked schedule that
didn't include the 2 best teams in the conference.utah
currently resides in a trailer park.utah is currently 0-7 all time
against the SLC WMCASure we can "play this game" all you
BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado.BYU is 6-9 all time against San
Jose St.BYU lost 54-10 at home on national TV to Utah.BYU got
schedule hoodwinked by Wisconsin. When is the game at LES?BYU fans like to
talk about how great independence is, yet that's all you have.BYU
masquerades as a legacy program but plays WAC teams on the road, just to fill
it's schedule!Are you sure you want to keep playing this game
Duckhunter? Your team is on the losing end.
@pocyuteAnd utah was 20 points worse than Hawaii based on Hawaii
beating colorado by 17 and utah losing to colorado by 3 which puts utah squarely
at the bottom of the wac about where you belong.See how we can keep
playing this game?
ChristyThus making BYU 44 points worse than that, putting your
square in the middle of the big sky, about where you belong.
pocyUteSo it is inarguable that 3-10 Colorado was a better team than
8-5 Utah, making Utah the worst team in the PAC 12.Thanks for
clearing that up.
Deductive?You don't get it. Polls are based on
opinion. It's completely debatable if BYU had a better season. Did they
win more games? Absolutely. Does that mean they were better. No. If that
were so, then Montana who went 11-3 would be better, cause they won more
games.Some BYU fans on here want to gloss over a complete whipping
that their team took by 44 points and say that 10 wins a and 23rd ranking means
they were better than Utah.Some here pound their chest saying we
were ranked, we one 10 games and in the same breath denigrate Utah's
schedule without acknowledging the FACT that BYU's 10 wins were over teams
with a combined record of 44-79, not one of them from a major conference, and
only 2 of them were even bowl eligible, including Tulsa who you played in that
bowl.So yes, who had the better season is arguable. Who had the
better team, after 44 points in their own house, is not.
pocyUteGet real!The debate is about who had the better
overall season, ergo, the better overall team.Obviously the logic of
"one game does not a season make" is lost on you.
Cougs for life and My little brotherYou guys still don't get
it. The debate isn't who had a better season, the debate is who was better.
I'm arguing that a 44 point beat down is more indicative of who
was better because it is based on a head to head objective results than an
opinion poll done at the end of the season.Who had a better season
is a completely different argument. I'm not sure how much more clear I can
be. To your point little bro, there are Utah fans that still think
like that, and I think that mindset is ridiculous. Personally, I would much
rather win the pac12 than beat BYU, but beating BYU, is like a cherry on top.
But you know as well as I do, there are BYU fans who's season is made or
broken with how thy fare against Utah, especially with Utah''s move to
the PAC and BYU's move to Indy.
@pocyuteCome on man?How can you credibly argue that the
only fact that matters in the "who had a better season" argument between
BYU and Utah is who won in September, but then turn around and say that Colorado
was better on one Saturday, but Utah had a better season than the Buffs? You
can't see that it is just as logical that Utah was better than BYU on one
given Saturday, but that BYU had a better season?
pocyUteYou're right; beating Utah is fun, but BYU fans would
rather have a great season and finish in the Top 25, than put all their effort
into winning one game while stinking it up the rest of the season.Utah fans are still stuck in the 80's and 90's when beating BYU was
the ONLY thing that mattered to the Utes.Once a little brother,
always a little brother, even if you think you're a big boy now.
TruthI respectfully disagree.How a fan base interprets
rankings does not alter facts. Rankings are opinions, scoreboard is a fact.I'm not saying that Utah is better than BYU because of rank,
I'm saying they are better because they beat them head to head.I also never said it was better to beat a ranked team than be a ranked
team.You did, however, do a great job of illustrating a point which
seems to be common among some BYU fans on this board. It appears some BYU fans
on here would rather end up being ranked higher than Utah, than beat Utah.
Which is very closely related to the mentality which you accuse Utah fans of
@Duck"Now my personal opinion is that Utah was not better than
BYU last year..."LOL, classic.
DuckYou're absolutely correct, and I put that in there as an
aside that if BYU fans are going to cling to rankings as the be all end all over
head to head, then they need to recognize that Utah is at this point of the
season (TIC) better than BYU.Now, I know Utah wasn't 44 point
better than BYU last year, but in my opinion they were better. Obviously teams
stub a toe, and I think the fractures that Heaps caused were a big factor in
BYU's lack of heart in that game.
Truth MachineCummulatively, it does sound more impressive to say
that Utah beat four ranked teams in 2008, but that's still only one season.
It's much harder to finish in the Top 25 in four different seasons.As Duckhunter said, except for BYU's meltdown against Utah and
Utah's meltdown against Colorado, the two teams were quite similar in 2011.
The biggest difference was BYU only lost to good teams. Utah lost to several bad
An yet after all those top 25 finishes, BTU is STILL on the outside looking
in!No official conference invite after 40+ years.
pocyUte"How Utah fans address the rankings has nothing to do
with this discussion..."Don't kid yourself. How
Utah fans address rankings is absolutely germane to this discussion.Everytime a Utah fan brags about the Utes beating a ranked team, they're
claiming that it's more prestigious to beat a ranked team because ranked
teams are BETTER than unranked teams. Everytime a Utah fan brags
about Utah being ranked higher than another team, they're using rankings as
proof that Utah is a better team.The real issue is U live with this
delusion that BEATING a ranked team is more important than BEING a ranked
team.Why?Because a program that has only managed to
finish in the Top 25 in both polls FIVE times in their ENTIRE history,
doesn't have much to brag about when it comes to Top 25 finishes.
@pocyute"If rankings mean so much, then obviously Utah is again
better than BYU this year because most polls have them receiving more votes than
BYU."That does not make your case because utah would not be
better than BYU "again" based on the polls because based on the polls
last year they were not better than BYU. You want to say head to head matters
when utah wins that and the polls matter when utah wins that.Now my
personal opinion on this is that utah was not better than BYU last year, I think
they were pretty similar as to what level of teams they were. I think that whe
they played utah outplayed BYU, that is inarguable, and with quite a bit of help
from BYU it became a beatdown in the second half. That stuff happens and anyone
that looks at it honestly knows that what occured there was not all utah, BYU
just plain didn't show up to play.But it balanced out as the
season progressed. BYU improved and utah lost at home to an absolutely horrible
team and took several other beatdowns along the way. They were pretty even in
AntiYou're off point here. It's a classic misdirection
move, change the argument. How Utah fans address the rankings has nothing to do
with this discussionYou're also wrong. I'm quite
consistent in my argument. I'm not arguing that ranking mean nothing. In
cases without a head to head matchup, it is all we have. I'm arguing that
you can't say BYU was better than Utah last year. My argument is that
objective facts (Utah beating BYU by 44 indicate that Utah was better than BYU
last year). Everything else is based on opinion of what people think would
happen. If rankings mean so much, then obviously Utah is again
better than BYU this year because most polls have them receiving more votes
than BYU. Which way would you like it to be, because you cant have it both
pocyUteEVERY poll is based on OPINION, but that doesn't change
the fact the Utah fans constantly beat their chests every time Utah beats a
"ranked" team. Who's to say that a ranked team is better than an
unranked team? Try showing just a smidgeon of consistency in your arguments.
Either being ranked means something or it doesn't. Either being ranked
higher than another team means something or it doesn't.BYU lost
to Utah in mid-September.Utah lost to 10-loss Colorado in lste
November.Can you prove that Utah was a better team than BYU by
season's end or that BYU wouldn't have beaten Utah if they'd
played a rematch the Saturady after Thanksgiving?Bottom line:BYU finished the season ranked, ergo, BYU was considered a better team
nationally, than unranked Utah.
AntibcsA classic response, and right in line with the BYU spin. You
want so desperately to say that BYU was better than Utah last year, but you
can't rely on the actual facts, so you create surrogate arguments to
justify you position. It's like you took a page out of the Obama campaign.
The fact is Utah beat BYU by 44 points in Provo. But those BYU fans
arguing here would have us ignore that fact. They argue that despite the head
to head results we should look at the polls, or that BYU had 10 wins, or that
they won 9 of their last 10 games. Those things are supposed to prove that BYU
was better than Utah last year, but, they can't erase the reality of 54-10.
AnonymousThat is incorrect. According to opinion, BYU was better
than Utah at the end of the season (subjective)According to the
results on the field, Utah was 44 points better than BYU at that point of the
season. Until they play again, that Fact cannot be refuted, and any other
conclusion is merely based on opinion. If, however, putting more
stock in theoretical outcomes helps the wound of that 44 point beat down heal,
and helps you sleep at night then by all means, but it won't change the
final outcome. The only outcome based on data that was 54-10, everything else
"You say that Utah fans only care about rankings when it benefits them, well
what are you doing right now?"You're right. BYU fans love
to play the rankings game with Utah fans because BYU OWNS U when it comes to
final rankings, which, unfortunately for U are the ONLY thing that matters on a
national basis.In the end, college football teams are judged by
where they finish in the final polls.Even jealous Utah fans
acknowledge this EVERY time they spout off about the Utes beating a
pocyUteThe final rankings are the final word on the ENTIRE
season.Colorado BEAT Texas in the Big 12 Championship game 2001 and
played in a BCS game; Texas was relegated to the Holiday Bowlyet,
Texas finished the season ranked higher than Colorado.Bottom
line:Despite all of the hyperbole, BYU finished the 2011-12 season
ranked #25 Coaches, #26 AP, while Utah didn't get a single vote in either
poll.According to the opinions of the national media and coaches,
BYU had a better overall season.Another Top 25 finish for BYU
(BYU's 18th such finish since 1977)Another unranked finish for Utah
(as usual)U can whine about it if it helps you sleep better at
night, but that won't change the final outcome.
DuckReasonable question. The fact is they beat Utah, so, on that day
they certainly were. Overall Utah had a better season, but Colorado bet them, a
fact that cannot be disputedMotorThose are all fine
examples. And if BYU had played Utah at the end of the season they MAY have won.
But they didn't play. If opinion matters that much, then why even play the
game. Why don't we just have people debate on who should win, then vote on
it.?There you have, the best team.You say that Utah fans only care
about rankings when it benefits them, well what are you doing right now? You
are trying to play off a 44 point beat down as if it was a fluke, and basing
that on the fact that you beat a bunch of weak teams down the stretch to finish
with 10 wins and got ranked.
motorbike"There's only one reason an article about the Utes
would elicit this much of a response from BYU fans..."The first
half of your statement is correct. but let me help with your jealous, misguided
conclusion.The one reason BYU fans would comment on this subject
is...to punch a giant hole in that bag of PAC Net hot air
that's been blowing off the hill for over a year.You can whine
all you want, but that's not going to change the reality that the PAC Net
is falling far short of expectations.Why would BYU fans be jealous
of Utah being a minor partner of an inferior network?
@pocyuteSo you must believe colorado was a better team than utah. It
pocyUteYou continue to demonstrate your lack of understanding. One
game does not a season make.Case in point:October 20,
2001Colorado is DOMINATED at Texas 7-415 weeks laterDecember 1, 2001Colorado BEATS Texas 39-37 in the Big 12 Championship
game to earn a spot in the Fiesta BowlBased on your short-sighted
"one head-to-head matchup PROVES which team is better" OPINION, Texas
was clearly the better team and the Big 12 shouldn't have even bothered
playing the rematch in December.Continuing the story:Colorado loses to Oregon 16-38 in the Fiesta BowlTexas beats Washington
47-43 in the Holiday BowlFinal PollsTexas #5 AP, #5 CoachesColorado #9 AP, #9 CoachesObjective fans/coaches/sportswriters
consider the ENTIRE season when rating teams.It's laughable how
much stock Utah fans put in the OPINIONS of the pollsters when Utah is ranked
ahead of BYU, and how much they whine about the poll only being biased opinions,
when BYU is ranked ahead of Utah.
There's only one reason an article about the Utes would elicit this much of
a response from BYU fans (almost ever single comment on this thread). That
reason is JEALOUSY.Laugh all you want Cougies ... this is only the
beginning of the Pac-12 Network and you all know it's only going to grow
and get better. So yeah, get your jabs in while you can ... it's oh so very
pathetic and obvious, but get them in nonetheless.It's great to be a
Phoenix, You don't get it do you. The coach's poll and AP
poll are based on OPINION, not fact. Therefore, it is not a conclusion based on
objective data like a 54-10 beat down is.The Sagarin rankings based
on trends and and predictors, run through a computer. And if a computer says
its correct, wow, it must be so.Therefore, you didn't burst my
bubble, you just demonstrated you lack of understanding
pocyUte"Your argument is based on speculation and opinion, mine,
Utah was better than BYU by beating them head to head 54-10, is based on
fact."Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but the glaring FACT
that you've so carefully chosen to ignore is:BYU #25 Coaches,
#26 AP, #34 SagarinUtah not a single vote in either poll, #39 SagarinClearly, the national media and coaches agreed that the team that
finished the season winning 9 of their last 10 games, including a bowl win over
#35 Tulsa, was better than the team that LOST 4 of their last 10 games,
including a home loss to the 107th worst team in the country.
DuckI get your point, but I think it would be better phrased
"not yet what was promised"Admittedly I haven't read
everything about it, but I do think it will end up pretty close to how Scott
presented it in the fisrt place. It's very early in he process. If we are in the same spot in 2 months, it will be a disappointment, 1 year a
flop, 2 years a disaster.
@nightowlThis is not what was promised.
Nice to see Duckhunter carry on the tradition of twisting words, and PAC man try
very hard to be a troll.At least you have a new independent buddy now. Go
Idaho!And BYUs season ending schedule sure looks great! A national
audience is waiting to see Idaho, New Mexico St and San Jose St!Yay!
Can't wait for the replay of those games on BYU TV.
JealousYour argument is based on speculation and opinion, mine, Utah
was better than BYU by beating them head to head 54-10, is based on fact.And your last statement is just ridiculous.
pocyUteTop 25 > unrankedNo matter how you spin
it.The Utah team that was dominated by Colorado would have lost by
much more than 3 points to BYU in late November.Utah's position
is playing 2nd fiddle to USC in really good years, PAC 12 South doormat in bad
Jealous,You want an honest answer, I will happy to give one.First of all, why did you chose a 6 year window? Because it was
convenient for your argument?We all know that head to head, Utah has
a large lead in football, and basketball is close. We also all know
that any team with a pulse could have finished your schedule last year at 10-3.
You effectively established yourself as the 2nd best team in Utah and Idaho.
CongratulationsIf you are insinuating that BYU was better than Utah
last year, you're up in the night. Yes, Utah lost by 3 to Colorado. You
lost by 44 points. Now if you are honest with yourself, you'll
admit that Utah's position in the PAC-12 is light years ahead of BYU's
position as an independent and in the WCC. And you'd gladly change spots
if you could.Only if we are being "honest" with each other.
Oh sammy, You're schtick is so played.I'm
reporting what a friend of mine saw who gets it. I don't get it yet, but
I'm confident DRTV will get it before the season starts.My
wildest dreams have already come true. I'm a fan of the best football team
in Utah, I have a great job, and a great family, and I don't spend my time
trolling the comment section of articles for a team I obviously can't
stand, just to pick a fight or make myself feel clever.
pocyUte"Do accomplishments of over 25 years count as
nostalgic?"The "ancient history" arguments Utah fans
like use become more and more laughable every year...but just to
placate U, let's just use the last 6 years for comparison.FootballTop 25 FinishesBYU 5Utah 3Top 15
FinishesBYU 3Utah 1Conference ChampionshipsBYU
2Utah 1OverallBYU 60-18Utah 58-20Head-to-headBYU 3Utah 3---------------BasketballNCAA TournamentsBYU 6Utah 125+ Win
SeasonsBYU 6Utah 0Conference ChampionshipsBYU 4Utah 1OverallBYU 165-44 (79%)Utah 86-104 (45%)Head-to-headBYU 10Utah 1It's obvious to any
objective observers which school has the dominant sports program.---------------10-3 Top 25 > 8-5 PAC bottom dwellerWas Utah much better than Colorado last season even though the Buffs dominated
the Utes in the first half and won the head-to-head matchup on Utah's home
field?Answer the question honestly and you'll understand why
one game does not a season make.
pocyUteGot your Pac12 Network in Idaho or are you watching VHS tape
of the Ute wonder years, secretly watching some BYUtv archives, or just
'hearing' stuff and reporting on hearsay???So what does
"I only reported the ones I heard of" mean. ESPN 700 audio
archives???"Looking forward to a repeat this year." Surely you don't mean going 4-5 again. LOLHere's
hoping for your wildest dreams of DirectTV come true!
LoneInteresting arguments. Do accomplishments of over 25 years
count as nostalgic?I didn't say there wasn't a single
highlight, I only reported the ones I heard of.Your math is
interesting. Last time I checked 54>>10. Looking forward
to a repeat this year.
pocyUteVideo montages and replays of MWC games are nice if
you're feeling nostalgic, but after all of the chest-beating about being
one of the "big boys", it's ironic that the Utes don't have a
single highlight to boast about from their first year in the PAC...8th in football with a losing conference record11th in basketball with
only 3 conference winslast or next to last in every other men's
sport10-3 Top 25 > 8-5 conference bottom dweller
HaHa I laughed because they don't have a HD truck and they don't show
on tvs in China like we do.
...how the Pac10 Regional networks couldn't get on Cox in Phoenix, in
addition to not being on satellite? Cox is the major cable network here...I
guess ASU and UA fans don't need to watch their games. And isn't it
ironic that the Pac10 was able to get the Comcast channel vacated by the mtn
when it folded? Welcome back to the mtn Utah!
I think by the time the season rolls around, Dish will be the only one not
carrying the network. Skywalker, you must have missed the replay of
the 2008 Utah/TCU game that Was rebroadcast at 8:30, or the video montage with
Utah raising the Sugar Bowl trophy. I admire your "independent"
and Cox Cable is NOT going to provide the national Pac 12 Network in the region
as originally 'promised' and in only FIVE markets outside of the
region. Las Vegas, Sun Valley, 2 other places and Omaha????????I'm sorry I'm not buying Omaha as a viable Pac 12 market.
There's 3 things in Nebraska... they are corn, cattle and Husker football.
I've worked in Lincoln and have bowed at the altar of Memorial Stadium.
There are no Pac 12 fans in Omaha.Striker can verify that.On a brighter note...I did catch the Pac12Network on channel 37 on Comcast.
Wasn't that the old 'theMtn' channel? I believe it is so Larry
did 'score' the channel for pennies on the dollar from ol'
what's his name from the MWC.Some things never change!
I tuned into the new PAC Net just to see what all the fuss was about, and the
very first thing I saw, no lie, was a replay of USC blocking Utah's FG
attempt and returning it for a touchdown.Utah, the new PAC whipping
boy - a harbinger of things to come!Enjoy!
This is not what was promised.
I just checked the PAC 12 Conference website and my eyes are watering from
laughing so hard about the opening lineup for Thursday, August 30th...UNCO @ Utah4:00 p.m.PAC 12 NetworkUCLA @ Rice4:30 p.m.CBS Sports NetworkWSC @ BYU7:15 p.m.ESPNNAU @ ASU7:30 p.m.PAC 12 Network*bwaahaha*
... and it won't be on satellite.*snicker*