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Published: Wednesday, Aug. 15 2012 9:20 a.m. MDT

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pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Phoenix,

You don't get it do you. The coach's poll and AP poll are based on OPINION, not fact. Therefore, it is not a conclusion based on objective data like a 54-10 beat down is.

The Sagarin rankings based on trends and and predictors, run through a computer. And if a computer says its correct, wow, it must be so.

Therefore, you didn't burst my bubble, you just demonstrated you lack of understanding

motorbike
Cottonwood Heights, UT

There's only one reason an article about the Utes would elicit this much of a response from BYU fans (almost ever single comment on this thread). That reason is JEALOUSY.
Laugh all you want Cougies ... this is only the beginning of the Pac-12 Network and you all know it's only going to grow and get better. So yeah, get your jabs in while you can ... it's oh so very pathetic and obvious, but get them in nonetheless.
It's great to be a Ute!

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

pocyUte

You continue to demonstrate your lack of understanding. One game does not a season make.

Case in point:

October 20, 2001
Colorado is DOMINATED at Texas 7-41

5 weeks later

December 1, 2001
Colorado BEATS Texas 39-37 in the Big 12 Championship game to earn a spot in the Fiesta Bowl

Based on your short-sighted "one head-to-head matchup PROVES which team is better" OPINION, Texas was clearly the better team and the Big 12 shouldn't have even bothered playing the rematch in December.

Continuing the story:

Colorado loses to Oregon 16-38 in the Fiesta Bowl
Texas beats Washington 47-43 in the Holiday Bowl

Final Polls
Texas #5 AP, #5 Coaches
Colorado #9 AP, #9 Coaches

Objective fans/coaches/sportswriters consider the ENTIRE season when rating teams.

It's laughable how much stock Utah fans put in the OPINIONS of the pollsters when Utah is ranked ahead of BYU, and how much they whine about the poll only being biased opinions, when BYU is ranked ahead of Utah.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@pocyute

So you must believe colorado was a better team than utah. It is inarguable.

midpacmajor
Salt Lake City, Utah

motorbike

"There's only one reason an article about the Utes would elicit this much of a response from BYU fans..."

The first half of your statement is correct. but let me help with your jealous, misguided conclusion.

The one reason BYU fans would comment on this subject is...

to punch a giant hole in that bag of PAC Net hot air that's been blowing off the hill for over a year.

You can whine all you want, but that's not going to change the reality that the PAC Net is falling far short of expectations.

Why would BYU fans be jealous of Utah being a minor partner of an inferior network?

pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Duck

Reasonable question. The fact is they beat Utah, so, on that day they certainly were. Overall Utah had a better season, but Colorado bet them, a fact that cannot be disputed

Motor

Those are all fine examples. And if BYU had played Utah at the end of the season they MAY have won. But they didn't play. If opinion matters that much, then why even play the game. Why don't we just have people debate on who should win, then vote on it.?There you have, the best team.

You say that Utah fans only care about rankings when it benefits them, well what are you doing right now? You are trying to play off a 44 point beat down as if it was a fluke, and basing that on the fact that you beat a bunch of weak teams down the stretch to finish with 10 wins and got ranked.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

pocyUte

The final rankings are the final word on the ENTIRE season.

Colorado BEAT Texas in the Big 12 Championship game 2001 and played in a BCS game; Texas was relegated to the Holiday Bowl

yet, Texas finished the season ranked higher than Colorado.

Bottom line:

Despite all of the hyperbole, BYU finished the 2011-12 season ranked #25 Coaches, #26 AP, while Utah didn't get a single vote in either poll.

According to the opinions of the national media and coaches, BYU had a better overall season.

Another Top 25 finish for BYU (BYU's 18th such finish since 1977)
Another unranked finish for Utah (as usual)

U can whine about it if it helps you sleep better at night, but that won't change the final outcome.

anti BCS
Anaheim, CA

"You say that Utah fans only care about rankings when it benefits them, well what are you doing right now?"

You're right. BYU fans love to play the rankings game with Utah fans because BYU OWNS U when it comes to final rankings, which, unfortunately for U are the ONLY thing that matters on a national basis.

In the end, college football teams are judged by where they finish in the final polls.

Even jealous Utah fans acknowledge this EVERY time they spout off about the Utes beating a "ranked" team.

pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Anonymous

That is incorrect. According to opinion, BYU was better than Utah at the end of the season (subjective)

According to the results on the field, Utah was 44 points better than BYU at that point of the season. Until they play again, that Fact cannot be refuted, and any other conclusion is merely based on opinion.

If, however, putting more stock in theoretical outcomes helps the wound of that 44 point beat down heal, and helps you sleep at night then by all means, but it won't change the final outcome. The only outcome based on data that was 54-10, everything else was opinion.

pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Antibcs

A classic response, and right in line with the BYU spin. You want so desperately to say that BYU was better than Utah last year, but you can't rely on the actual facts, so you create surrogate arguments to justify you position. It's like you took a page out of the Obama campaign.

The fact is Utah beat BYU by 44 points in Provo. But those BYU fans arguing here would have us ignore that fact. They argue that despite the head to head results we should look at the polls, or that BYU had 10 wins, or that they won 9 of their last 10 games. Those things are supposed to prove that BYU was better than Utah last year, but, they can't erase the reality of 54-10.

anti BCS
Anaheim, CA

pocyUte

EVERY poll is based on OPINION, but that doesn't change the fact the Utah fans constantly beat their chests every time Utah beats a "ranked" team. Who's to say that a ranked team is better than an unranked team? Try showing just a smidgeon of consistency in your arguments. Either being ranked means something or it doesn't. Either being ranked higher than another team means something or it doesn't.

BYU lost to Utah in mid-September.

Utah lost to 10-loss Colorado in lste November.

Can you prove that Utah was a better team than BYU by season's end or that BYU wouldn't have beaten Utah if they'd played a rematch the Saturady after Thanksgiving?

Bottom line:

BYU finished the season ranked, ergo, BYU was considered a better team nationally, than unranked Utah.

pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Anti

You're off point here. It's a classic misdirection move, change the argument. How Utah fans address the rankings has nothing to do with this discussion

You're also wrong. I'm quite consistent in my argument. I'm not arguing that ranking mean nothing. In cases without a head to head matchup, it is all we have. I'm arguing that you can't say BYU was better than Utah last year. My argument is that objective facts (Utah beating BYU by 44 indicate that Utah was better than BYU last year). Everything else is based on opinion of what people think would happen.

If rankings mean so much, then obviously Utah is again better than BYU this year because most polls have them receiving more votes than BYU. Which way would you like it to be, because you cant have it both ways?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@pocyute

"If rankings mean so much, then obviously Utah is again better than BYU this year because most polls have them receiving more votes than BYU."

That does not make your case because utah would not be better than BYU "again" based on the polls because based on the polls last year they were not better than BYU. You want to say head to head matters when utah wins that and the polls matter when utah wins that.

Now my personal opinion on this is that utah was not better than BYU last year, I think they were pretty similar as to what level of teams they were. I think that whe they played utah outplayed BYU, that is inarguable, and with quite a bit of help from BYU it became a beatdown in the second half. That stuff happens and anyone that looks at it honestly knows that what occured there was not all utah, BYU just plain didn't show up to play.

But it balanced out as the season progressed. BYU improved and utah lost at home to an absolutely horrible team and took several other beatdowns along the way. They were pretty even in the end.

Truth Machine
Salt Lake City, UT

pocyUte

"How Utah fans address the rankings has nothing to do with this discussion..."

Don't kid yourself.

How Utah fans address rankings is absolutely germane to this discussion.

Everytime a Utah fan brags about the Utes beating a ranked team, they're claiming that it's more prestigious to beat a ranked team because ranked teams are BETTER than unranked teams.

Everytime a Utah fan brags about Utah being ranked higher than another team, they're using rankings as proof that Utah is a better team.

The real issue is U live with this delusion that BEATING a ranked team is more important than BEING a ranked team.

Why?

Because a program that has only managed to finish in the Top 25 in both polls FIVE times in their ENTIRE history, doesn't have much to brag about when it comes to Top 25 finishes.

WACPaddingOurSchedule
pocatello, ID

An yet after all those top 25 finishes, BTU is STILL on the outside looking in!
No official conference invite after 40+ years.

UoU 1991
Park City, UT

Truth Machine

Cummulatively, it does sound more impressive to say that Utah beat four ranked teams in 2008, but that's still only one season. It's much harder to finish in the Top 25 in four different seasons.

As Duckhunter said, except for BYU's meltdown against Utah and Utah's meltdown against Colorado, the two teams were quite similar in 2011. The biggest difference was BYU only lost to good teams. Utah lost to several bad teams.

pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Duck

You're absolutely correct, and I put that in there as an aside that if BYU fans are going to cling to rankings as the be all end all over head to head, then they need to recognize that Utah is at this point of the season (TIC) better than BYU.

Now, I know Utah wasn't 44 point better than BYU last year, but in my opinion they were better. Obviously teams stub a toe, and I think the fractures that Heaps caused were a big factor in BYU's lack of heart in that game.

nosaerfoecioveht
NSL, UT

@Duck

"Now my personal opinion is that Utah was not better than BYU last year..."

LOL, classic.

pocyUte
Pocatello, ID

Truth

I respectfully disagree.

How a fan base interprets rankings does not alter facts. Rankings are opinions, scoreboard is a fact.

I'm not saying that Utah is better than BYU because of rank, I'm saying they are better because they beat them head to head.

I also never said it was better to beat a ranked team than be a ranked team.

You did, however, do a great job of illustrating a point which seems to be common among some BYU fans on this board. It appears some BYU fans on here would rather end up being ranked higher than Utah, than beat Utah. Which is very closely related to the mentality which you accuse Utah fans of entertaining.

Y's little brother
Sandy, UT

pocyUte

You're right; beating Utah is fun, but BYU fans would rather have a great season and finish in the Top 25, than put all their effort into winning one game while stinking it up the rest of the season.

Utah fans are still stuck in the 80's and 90's when beating BYU was the ONLY thing that mattered to the Utes.

Once a little brother, always a little brother, even if you think you're a big boy now.

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