Re: atl134 Salt Lake City, UT"This entire discussion is moot
because Gays do not qualify to be boy scout leaders. Parents want their young
boys to be able to follow the examples set by their leaders and that decision
has already been made.
NeilT,People abuse labels and so I can very easily see why you
don't want 'gays labeled as sexual deviants'. But it is only
logical to attribute the label when in order to reproduce, the Homosapien must
engage in heterosexual intercourse- that those who choose to abdicate from the
human course of reproduction and strictly engage in an arbitrary and
'pleasure-only' engagement- that the very act that defines
'gays' is very literally an act of deviation from the human design.Some of us say "deviant" and don't automatically assign a
biased opinion of them as a sexual predator. However, it is only rational,
instinctive, and appropriate that in order to protect children- parents choose
not to allow an adult who deviates from the human telos to raise children.Abusing the label would be inappropriately assigning it or
inappropriately treating someone because of it. I have neither suggested nor
promoted either. Choosing to participate in heterosexual engagements is an act
of consigning the label to one's self, not the other way around.We all have a right to choose for ourselves. The problem is that gays are
interfering with the organizations of other men (government, society, etc).
"The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's
sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really
have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for
mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead,
their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of
both sexes."--UC Davis, Facts About Homosexuality and Child
@worf"Sorry you can't find a difference."I did
find one, only one of those two (Bishop or Scoutmaster) are in a position where
people who have committed sexual sin are expected to confess such sins to
them."Maybe we should ban mid-east oil, because they execute
gays."That has nothing to do with people supervising children...
what'd you do, go to a Chick-fil-A thread and get lost?
atl134,Sorry you can't find a difference.Maybe we
should ban mid-east oil, because they execute gays.
ADULT Americans have the right to be and do anything they please so long as they
do not infringe on the rights and freedoms of others. CHILDREN are
slaves to their adult masters. The children’s masters have the right to
teach and control their children in the manner of their beliefs. The underlying purpose of the Boy Scouts is the teach, influence, instill and
indoctrinate children in the belief system of the religious beliefs about
morality and character. When a person places his/her child in to an
organization like the Boy Scouts, the person assumes the leaders will carry out
the underlying purpose. If the leader is someone who does not subscribe to the
religious belief, that leader should be excluded from contact with the child.
Because of the malleable condition of children’s minds and the
disapproval of the Gay lifestyle by most of society, Gay leaders, teacher,
parents should be prohibited from contact with children
to all the posters that purposely post known false claim that gay people are
more likely to victimize children and youth, you do realize that using well
known lies do nothing to make your position stronger.
DanOSince when do Den Mothers take cubs on campouts?
Hmmmm.. so I guess there shouldn't be Den Mothers in Cub Scouts anymore
according to Cinci Man.
I would not want straight men taking my daughter on a campout and I
wouldn't want gay men taking my son on one. I also would not want straight
women taking my son on a campout nor gay women taking my daughter on one.
Avoiding the temptations is a good thing. The opportunities for our children to
be unprotected are increased in these scenarios. It doesn't mean it WILL
happen. It is just more likely that it CAN happen.
Re: xscribe Colorado Springs, CO"Oh, and straight males are not in the
least sexually deviant."Men who do not live the Boy Scout oath
which includes being "morally straight" aren't permitted in that
organization. And that, be definition in the eyes of the BSA, excludes any man
that is living with someone who isn't his wife.The fact that
some straight males stray from the norm is moot as it applies to the BSA. Those
who do not comply with their standards need not apply.
This article is a double edged sword. One side states that these leaders support
and encourage not holding true to the values of the Boy Scouts. The other side I
see is men who are put into leadership positions think they have it in their job
description to tell us how to live our lives, what is best for us, what is right
and what is wrong. How can we let these people dictate how this organization
should run. If we let them tell this organization how to run, where will it
end.... We are losing control of our own lives each day.
@Duckhunter: Oh, and straight males are not in the least sexually deviant.
Climb out from under that rock!
If the rules of Youth Protection are followed, and there is always two deep
leadership and parental involvement, I can't think of a scenario that would
put a scout at risk - regardless of a leader's sexual orientation. That is
why those safety measures are put in place to begin with, to protect the scouts.
It would be highly inappropriate for scout leaders of any inkling to talk about
their romantic lives, so again with multiple leaders present I really doubt that
scouts would be negatively affected by having a gay scout leader.
According to Father Benedict Broeschel of Westchester, New York, 90 percent of
the abuse of children by Catholic priests was done by homosexual priests.
Homosexual priests represent 10 percent of Catholic priests. This means that
homosexual priests abused children 81 times as frequently as heterosexual
priests.Must we repeat the tragedy of the Catholic priest scandal
with the Boy Scouts? In doing so, we'll decimate the Boy Scouts of America
which has stood alone in inculcating good character traits in our young men.
Being gay doesn't automatically equate to being a pedophile. I don't
believe there is a connection between sexual orientation and being a danger to
minor children. I don't believe it is fair to label all gay people as
sexual deviants. One can be marrried with children and be a sexual deviant.
Whch is more unacceptable, being gay or being straight and unfaithful to a
spouse, viewing child pornography, and molesting children. There is a real
double standard here.
guswetrust,"Some gays"? Like who? Larry Brinkin? The
question isn't if "they all are" but tendencies.Gay
does not equal 'sexual predator'. I agree with that. One can indeed
give in to certain temptations and not intend or choose to hurt others the way
predators do. However, when someone chooses to reject the very fundamental
things that define who they are, such as their anatomical identity and function-
then it is only expected when such persons also choose to reject the fundamental
morals that are inherent to our existence. It would have to be easier to
convince yourself that it is 'okay' to harm another person when you
have convinced yourself that your own body was meant to do something that it
clearly wasn't designed for.If I started pretending I was a
dinosaur, nearly every psychologist in the world would be willing to recognize
that doing something else incongruous with 'being human' would only be
expected.When people are willing to give in to temptation, it
doesn't foster happiness and doesn't promote other moral choices. That
is something that disqualifies someone from being appropriate to guide youth.
Political correctness doesn't justify risking youth safety.
If its ok for gays to be leaders in the boy scouts, then why do gay people call
non gay people straight?Doesn't the term straight mean accurate, and
by the rules? I choose my leaders to be rule followers.
Let's be clear - of course not all gays are sexual predators; most
aren't. That was clearly not the point of my post. The point is, they are
statistically more LIKELY to victimize minors, which is strongly supported
empirical fact. That obviously doesn't mean that ALL are, or even a
majority are. But we need to put to bed once and for all the gay activist myth
that the minute a gay victimizes a minor, then presto-chango...they're no
longer gay, they're a pedophile. They say that, BS meters throughout
America are going off like sirens. I guess that means no straights can
victimize children either...
El Chango Supremo,The headline didn't mislead. It didn't
even imply anything, you simply inferred it (I did too) and falsely. Romney
supports it, but doesn't support forcing BSoA against their free right to
choose for themselves.I support gays having the right to choose for
themselves to believe and live according to the dictates of their own
conscience. If they want to go to the 'church of the gays', believe
what they will, and even hold private ceremonies and rituals and call themselves
'married' then I have no problem with it. But I choose not to support
or endorse those actions and I especially do not support extending state
recognition to their union or other such moral choices. Their union is immoral
and does not align with principles of happiness that are fundamental to human
existence. Most people are so focused on their own opinions that they ignore an
important distinction. I am not forcing my beliefs on others. If I were, I would
be forcing all men to marry a woman, etc. While I disagree, one CAN support
BSoA's right to choose while disagreeing with the choices they make.
It is interesting that on Thursday, Aug. 2, 2012, in the Chicago suburb of
Oakbrook Terrace, Ill., 5-year-old Dr. Robert Wise stood in front of M. Spencer
Green, an Associated Press photographer, and, holding his Eagle Scout medal,
announced to all the world, "I am interested in removing all evidence that I
was ever a Scout."I cannot think of a better way to remove all
evidence that he was even a Scout than to hold the medal in front of a newspaper
photographer and make such a statement. I personally had not previously known he
was a Scout. His very public act made it clear he once was. But, of course, he
had a much different point he wanted to make. And he made it.Suppose
the Roman Catholic Church were to announce that it did not want gay men to serve
as priests (who interact with alter boys). Would President Obama decry the
announcement? Would Mitt Romney? Or would it be relegated to the background and
would the press remind everyone, "It's the economy, stupid"?
I am not sure of the significance of knowing what either candidate thinks. BSA
is a private organization. Thank heavens!!
worf,Sandusky was married to a woman and had several children, he
probably would have been more than eligible to take a group of young boy scouts
on camping trips.Being openly gay does not have anything to do with
pedophilia. Serial pedophiles often attempt hide their actions by being
"Family Men".I've known many gay men throughout my life
and would not only trust them with children, but would prefer them over many of
the straight, married men and women I have also known.
Lets remember, if you are gay that does not mean you are a sexual predator. If
you are a gay adult, you prefer same sex relationships. Sexual predators are
adults looking for children to be with. Some gays are fine around the youth,
can be examples in other good ways and can even adopt children. Don't lump
the two together.
I just took a survey for a graduate student at the University of Phoenix in
conjunction with the Deseret News involving non-professional journalists and
professional journalists. This title and article just do not agree.
Who cares? Let him give up his award. It is up to him, he earned it. There is so
much dissent and objection on everything by everyone that it all really
doesn't matter. I hope some organizations in this country will stand up for
their beliefs and choose to exclude members who do not carry forth their ideals.
Otherwise we should just make one big club and give everybody a membership card
and an award that has no meaning or significance at all because everybody will
@worfYour logic would be like banning straight men from serving as LDS
Bishops because they'd have one on one interviews with women for things
like temple recommends.
Romney's quoted comments from 1994 still don't fully answer his full
position. Most people don't differentiate between gays who act on their
tendency by being immoral, and gays who keep themselves "morally
straight", and Romney's comments, unfortunately, are very ambiguous in
this regard. Just as the LDS Church allows people who struggle with same-gender
attraction to be full members of the church if they follow and obey the
commandments, I'm also sure that Romney in this same way supports the idea
of having gays who do the same to be active participants in the Boy Scouts of
America. But Romney's comment hasn't differentiated that nuance -- so
we are left to speculate. This article is making it sound like Romney supports
gays who are living immoral lifestyles to be a part of the Boy Scouts of
America, but I highly doubt that is his actual position.
Romney & Obama's positions are NOT the same. Obama thinks that gays
should be able to be Boy Scout leaders. Romney believes that gays should be
able to PARTICIPATE in Boy Scouts...those are NOT the same thing. So until
somebody asks Romney point-blank if gays should be leaders, not just
participants, in BSA, we really don't know his position. I'm willing to bet Romney would side with mainstream America and say
that, maybe, it's not a good idea having adults who are sexually attracted
to males supervising minor males on overnight campouts. Just a thought.And before we get to some extreme gay activist trying to shut me up by
calling that observation of reality somehow "hateful", remember that
I'd have just as big a problem with adult straight males supervising minor
females alone on a campout. And in view of the fact that promiscuity is
absolutely enormously higher among gays than straights, and that gays are more
likely statistically to victimize minors, I'd be that much more worried
about gays in that situation than even straight males. That's not based on
"bigotry"...that's based on love of my children.
>He also opposes discrimination in all formsUnless it benefits
whatever minority group that is going to get him the most votes, of course.When BO comes out and denounces racist programs and organizations such
as Affirmative Action, La Raza, the NAACP, and such, then maybe I'll give
him the benefit of the doubt on such statements.
The comments quoted from both Mitt Romney's and President Obama's
campains were very vague!and the head line for the article was very miss
leading. The comments and quotes in the article do not support the title to the
articles implacations. I do not support openly gay as leaders or members of any
youth group just as I would not support anyone overly outspoken about sex and or
any pornography addict.
Mitt Romney's "long-standing support"?
After the Penn State incident, I don't understand Obama.
Gays will never be allowed as adult leaders in Boy Scouts of America. The moment
that happens the LDS church will drop the Boy Scouts. The Scouts recently upheld
their moral code and banned gays from BSA. There is no way any parent is going
to send their son on a camp out with a Gay man. This isn't about equal
rights - this is about protecting young boys from men who happen to be
"turned on" by other boys and men. This is simply unacceptable and
frightening. I can understand Romney if he defers to the judgement of BSA on
this issue and doesn't attempt to sue them as Obama usually does in an
attempt to force his will upon them.
Thanks DNEWS for a misleading headline. Participating in the boy
scouts and being a leader in the bow scouts are two different things. Mitt also
said he thinks the Boy scouts should be able to decide how they want to handle
The Boy Scouts of America refused to buckle under politically correct pressure
and allow leaders who are Gay. Parents want their young men to be able to
follow the examples set by their leaders. No need to confuse young men about
the Boy Scout Oath where they pledge to keep themselves morally straight.