Herbert waiting to see who takes White House before deciding on Medicaid expansion


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  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 9, 2012 5:55 a.m.

    Re: one old man Ogden, UT

    The Democrats had a chance to replace Gov. Herbert with one of their own in the last election. Fortunately Peter Corroon lost that election 31.8% to 64.2%. Unless and until the Democrats can come up with a candidate that shares our values the results in the future are very likely to stay that way.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 6:44 p.m.

    I see you didn't bother looking at what I said, only that I contradicted you. I repeat what I said, with a little added to help clarify for you.

    The GAO assumptions included reductions to medicare spending, which, as I said before, will not happen as congress fears too much the senior vote. I admonish YOU to look at the GAO's assumptions rather than just its conclusions and tuning in to MSNBC.

    Also, know that the GAO, as stated by the former HEAD of the GAO (not by some nameless wonk on the radio, as you implied), designs its studies to arrive at the conclusions congress desires.

    As I said before, depending on what assumptions you make, you can arrive at any conclusion you want. Obamacare will reduce deficits IF those assumptions are all realized, just like you will stay dry in a monsoon, IF it doesn't rain. Neither set of assumptions resemble reality in the least.

    You say the costs have been absorbed by current policy holders - you are correct, my premiums HAVE gone UP! So much for BO's lie that his plan would REDUCE costs by $2500 per family.

  • Makid Kearns, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 4:06 p.m.

    lost in DC:

    The GAO is a non-partisan accounting group that reports on the financial value of all bills in congress. They have reported that Obamacare/ACA will reduce the deficit by nearly $1 Trillion in 10 years.

    They have also stated that repealing Obamacare/ACA will increase the deficit by up to $250 Billion a year. That is $2.5 Trillion increase to the deficit in 10 years.

    I do recommend that you research Obamacare on your own and not listen to the talking heads on the radio. That way you get the whole truth and not just the truth that they state.

    Obamacare has already increased medical access for millions of people who wouldn't have access. The costs have been absorbed by current policy holders as their children have been able to be covered on their plans longer.

    Also, Utah has seen the number of medicaid users increase but the costs go down. This is due to the larger pool allowing better control over the rates.

    General Welfare is being promoted and provided for. Access to medical care is increasing without increasing costs to the general public and the deficit is decreasing.

  • UtahBlitzz West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 3:39 p.m.

    What an unbelievable lack of leadership from Herbert. Can't say I'm surprised in the least.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 1:02 p.m.

    Red Shirt, may we see some documentation -- factual documentation -- of the truthfulness of your assertion about 2400 mandates?

    We need to know if that is true or some more right wing propaganda.


  • RunAmuckMom Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 12:19 p.m.

    2001 I was forced into bankruptcy due to illness and what the self-insured corporate insurance peeps called "pre-existing" conditions, which lead to job loss because it's a right to work state and I was missing work due to illness. Please do not think these things do not happen to everyday people. We as Americans should help each other in times of need. What I have extra of, I share. I have been through homelesses because landlords wanted to charge more rent and used a 15-day vacate notice with no other prior warnings. I have been through more unpleasant experiences due to "political" games than anyone should be put through right down to being over the income limit by $7.00 and being told I'd be better off quiting my job and going full blown on welfare (years ago). This whole thing is a double edged sword that cuts in all directions. You just need to decide what type of person you are...loving others or only yourself.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    What we need is to get cut the amount of intrusion by the government on health insurance. As many of the liberals have pointed out, the cost of insurance is high, and is unaffordable. The problem isn't that the insurance companies are greedy, it is a simple fact that the government (state and federal) have imposed 2400 mandates on insurance companies. Those mandates account for 30% to 50% of the cost of insurance.

    If government wanted to make it cheaper, here is how you do it. Cut the mandates back to at least 1980's levels. Enact tort reform, this helps in 2 ways, first it makes office visits cheaper plus it encourages more doctors to go into fields like OB/GYN and other fields where malpractice insurance is over $200,000/yr, and allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.

    If somebody does have to file for bankruptcy, so what? Typically they file chapter 11, which means they lose nothing and have their debts restructured into a payment scheme that works with their income.

    To problem isn't too little government involvement, but too much involvement.

  • Bill Tibbitts Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    Expanding Medicaid is a decision for the legislative branch. Herbert can advise the Legislature about what he thinks is best and negotiate with the people in DC for the flexibility he wants but he does not get to vote on this issue.

    I suppose that, whatever legislators decide, there could be an ballot initiative or referndum vote on this issue in 2014 .

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 10:25 a.m.

    Smart living decisions begin with planning and preparation. This is what I told at a dinner sales pitch for the elderly. While taking care of my elderly parents, several individuals clued me in that I should check into an annuity to hide my parents savings. Then, I could help my parents apply for elderly medicaid. I did some research and found out at the time the law had recently changed to a five year previous purchase of an annuity was required to receive medicaid, so I could not apply and immediately receive medicaid. We had not planned on using it, but those who know how to use the system are taking full advantage of it. It is not just in elderly care, it is also in other types of welfare.
    Another example. Years ago, while unemployed, I was advised by a religious leader to apply for food stamps to feed our family. I filled out a form only to find out our car was too new, almost paid off, so we did not qualify. The lady at the desk, who I knew said, "Too bad you didn't change the title of your car to another relative before applying."

  • Bill McGee Alpine, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    redstatepride: So you really prefer anecdotal information over empirical data? Not understanding the difference is a big problem among conservatives, IME. Even though you have your requirements for evidence backwards, I will say that I personally know a couple of families who have declared bankruptcy due to medical bills. Naming them in a public forum, however, would simply be inappropriate.

    Medical expenses are the number one cause of bankruptcy in America. That fact is indisputable. The idea that hospitals just bankroll those who don't pay is simply conservative propaganda. Hospitals and Doctors sue people who don't pay. Try getting treatment for cancer, like I have, and in the flurry of billing overlook one bill. I promise you that they come after you for their money with a vengeance.

    Also contrary to your beliefs, doctors and hospitals do not provide any free preventative care. Sure, they will set your broken leg, but try walking into an ER without insurance and asking for a mammogram or colonoscopy - two important procedures that allow for the early detection and treatment of cancer - and you will be shown the door. As a result, uninsured Americans disproportionately die of treatable diseases like colon cancer.

  • Springvillepoet Springville, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 8:33 a.m.


    "Most of the relatives and friends I know just use medical as an excuse to file the bankruptcy."

    So you are telling us you have friends and family who are illegally filing for bankruptcy? Isn't part of the problem with all of this how casually you let that roll off the tongue, that these people abusing the laws of our nation to simply avoid facing their responsibilities? Sounds like the conservative equivalent of welfare fraud, except those who cheat the welfare system fall on both sides of the political spectrum.

    Oh, and aren't you at least morally (if not legally) obligated to report this fraud?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 7:45 a.m.

    the claim that Obamacare will reduce the deficit is predicated on fantasy. Obamacare's method to reduce the deficit, is to cut payments to medicare. Valuing the senior vote, congress has time and again rejected reductions to medicare payments. It will not happen.

    Saying Obamcare will reduce the deficit is like saying you won't get wet if you are outside in a monsoon - so long as it doesn't rain.

    As for medicaid - do not expend it, it is abused. My sister had a friend on medicaid who sprained her knee. Rather than have a friend take her to get care, she called an ambulance. From her point of view, why not? she wasn't paying for it. There was no structural damage to the knee, she left with it wrapped, but an ABMULANCE? c'mon! aside from the waste of money, what if the ambulance had been needed for an actual emergency?

    Too many people on medicaid (not all, but too many), take no thought for their health care because someone else is paying for it. They have no co-pays, no premiums, they just mooch off the system.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 7:11 a.m.

    Red state -- two of my children. A daughter who was a police officer injured on the job while trying unsuccessfully to save a drowning child. She nearly drowned herself and damage to her lungs forced her into early retirement. The pension was very small and she lost her medical coverage. She found some reasonably priced coverage, but after Senators Hatch and Kyl slipped their "Healthcare Equalization Amendment" into a U.S. Navy appropriations bill, her premiums more than tripled. She had opened a small business and so did not qualify for assistance in Arizona. Only after she lost the business because of her health problems did she qualify for a very minimal state program. Bankruptcy was the result.

    My son had a pre-existing condition.

    Then there is my neighbor. An older lady not quite old enough for medicare. Another person I know personally was a co-worker. She finally died -- sort of the ultimate bankruptcy, wouldn't you say?

    Red State -- your fantasy world is simply appalling.

  • Makid Kearns, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 6:52 a.m.

    Red State Pride:

    I can name 5 people that I know who declared bankruptcy due to medical costs alone. 3 are friends and 2 are family members. No, I will not state their names.

    I am currently subsidizing those without insurance with my medical plan. ACA will reduce the amount I am paying to cover those others because most of them will have to buy insurance or pay a fine.

    The ACA actually reduces subsidies for the uninsured, that is why the ACA reduces the deficit, coverage is paid for by a larger pool and the fines will encourage more to buy.

    So, even with expanding medicare/medicaid the deficit goes down. Sounds like something people should be happy about, not want to repeal. The republicans new plan would just repeal the ACA, they don't have a replacement yet. That is because the ACA is their first option and Obama beat them to it.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 6:50 a.m.

    @red state pride
    Do a little research on your own. You need only to google "medical debt and bankruptcy". There are scores of articles about the problem and no such articless which deny it. To bury ones head in the sand can only cloud ones vision.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Aug. 8, 2012 6:48 a.m.

    Mcdugall--Most of the relatives and friends I know just use medical as an excuse to file the bankruptcy. Oh, I also have done property management--same excuse. I find it interesting how many of them regularly go on cruises, Disneyland, house full of new furniture and decorating, new wardrobes every season, children in many activities, and eating out every night. Also, anyone who has worked in a bank call center will tell you the same thing.

  • Archer Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 8, 2012 4:58 a.m.

    Red State Pride, so health care is free? You just show up and the doctor writes it off if you say you can't afford it? Wow, that IS a great system. Can I come and live in your great state? That sounds right in line with the principles of free enterprise and personal responsibility. Excellent.

    Aug. 8, 2012 4:47 a.m.

    RE: red state pride

    Do you really believe that no one has gone bankrupt because of medical bills? I guess that's just an example of your red state pride.

  • Afterglow Fanissimo Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 8, 2012 4:44 a.m.

    He's obviously going to accept the expansion. He just wants to wait until after the election like a coward.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 7, 2012 10:43 p.m.

    @mcdugall : as I said before ..name names.. not studies- specific examples.

  • mcdugall Layton, UT
    Aug. 7, 2012 10:12 p.m.

    @red state pride Are you serious? A research study done by Harvard Medical school in 2009 found that over 60% of all Bankruptcies in America are medically related. Also, people who have private health insurance plans are already paying subsidizing people who choose not to purchase or cannot afford health insurance. The new health care law will increase the coverage and liability pool, so the long-term insurance pool is made stronger and more sustainable.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 7, 2012 10:02 p.m.

    @ one old man- please give us one example of an American who was forced into bankruptcy because of an illness. Just one. You know Doctors and hospitals will finance the cost of their treatment right? They will set you up on a payment plan that you can afford- and if you can't pay it they write it off. So you just give us an example - not like Harry Reid's imaginary friends- a real person who was bankrupted by our medical system. No one has ever died from a lack of health insurance- maybe from a lack of healthcare but once the rationing starts we'll have lots of stories to tell..

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Aug. 7, 2012 9:37 p.m.

    So we need to keep the political wrangling going as long as it's possible to use it against Obama?

    Yeah, it's okay to force Americans into bankruptcy when they become ill or have pre-existing conditions. Anything to get Mitt elected, huh?


  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 7, 2012 9:18 p.m.

    So if the Country chooses Socialism you'll just tip your hat to the voters of the other States who re-elected President Obama Mr Governor?
    Why he can't he just be a stand up guy and say: " No- we're not going to expand Medicaid to middle class families". A number of other Governors already have. I don't want to pay taxes to pay for the healthcare of people who can afford to pay for their own healthcare. I'm not talking about extremely impoverished families- I don't have a problem with that. Are we going to be like New York where 1 in 4 people are on Medicaid (with family incomes in some cases over 100,000 dollars) and the state is cruising steadily towards bankruptcy?
    Come on Gary- I know Utah is essentially a Rino state but you have to know that welfare creates moral rot and you won't be helping people- you'll be hurting them if you expand Medicaid.