Strong arguments are made on both sides of gun control debate
@Baccus0902"There is some controversy in the way we interpret
this amendment. Historically the word "people" has been interpreted as
meaning individual citizens. If that was the original intent, perhaps is time to
Amend or eliminate the second amendment. 1791 and 2012 are quite different
times, wouldn't you agree?"Those ten amendments that are
commonly considered the Bill of Rights are different then the rest of the
amendments in the constitution they cannot be repealed or amended. The
government cannot touch them. "A bill of rights is what the
people are entitled to against every government on earth." Thomas
atl134,"A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, being necessary to the
security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall
not be infringed."I appreciate you putting the first phrase into
all caps, even though gun rights advocates' eyes will glaze over anyway.
I've never heard the NRA explain how 300 million guns in this country in
the hands of people whose use of those guns is determined by their own personal
judgment constitutes a well-regulated militia.It's historical
roots are in America's colonial militias when able-bodied men required to
serve were often required to provide their own firearms. So military defense of
the 13 colonies was literally dependent on an armed populace. That was
reaffirmed when Washington as President signed into law an act requiring men to
own firearms. Today, of course, that need is met by the most powerful military
in the world.But don't tell that to good old Rufus and Bubba
sitting on their front porch oiling their shooting irnos. They might be drinking
Armed Citizen,"How does my faith intersect with my gun
ownership?"Matthew 26:52 - "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up
again your sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish
with the sword."
Before guns there were murders. Should the time ever come when there are no more
guns. There will still be mass murders. A person with a sword or gasoline bombs
can kill a lot of people in a crowded place before they are stopped.
It doesn't take faith to believe that an off duty policeman with a
concealed weapon saved lives at Trolley Square when a gun man took it upon
himself to fire at bystanders, this is a factual matter. When the off duty
police officer began firing at the gunman, the gunman retreated to a place where
the off duty police officer couldn't hurt him, and from this location,
neither could the gunman hurt others.The person with the conceiled
weapon could have just as easily have been a citizen with a carry permit. If you
don't think an offense is justified as a defence, don't take
antibiotics and curse the fact that you have an immune system that works whether
you want it to or not.
Sometimes there are horrible things that just happen. This was just a crazy
person who went nuts. We think we can stop all bad things from happening but we
can't. We try to find reasons why something like this happened when
sometimes it was just a crazy person who went nuts. As far as
creating more gun laws. Read about New Orleans and the aftermath of Hurricane
Katrina. There were no police, women were being raped, and gangs were roaming
the street killing people. I'm sure those victims wished they had a gun.
There is a thin line in society between order and chaos and when it breaks there
will be no one there to help your family except you.
God helps those who help themselves. Arming one's self for self-defense or
taking a life in self-defense is something that occurs thoughout the Bible and
the Book of Mormon. David slew Goliath in defense of self and his country. He
led armies in defense of country. Some of the most spiritual men in the Book of
Mormon were forced to use deadly force to defend themselves, others and their
country. Examples: Nephi, Captain Moroni, 2000 Stripling Warriors, Mormon,
Moroni. God does not expect us to be shot and die like fish in a barrel. Be
prepared by arming yourself. He who is prepared shall not fear.
In our present society, the need to have a gun to protect your home is pretty
remote. However, there may be a day when there are riots and civil disorders in
our cities and owning a gun might be a good thing in order to protect yourself
and your family. People should have the right to own guns for their own self
protection if not now, then at some future date.
Apparently 30,000 people a year are killed by firearm in the States. WOW I am
glad I live in Australia where we have one tenth of that. The reason being No
assult rifles No Automatic weapons and regulated gun license. If you think it
is OK to be 10 times more likely to have your child shot so you have the
"Right to carry an Assult Rifle" then please don't come to
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, being necessary to the security of a free State, the
right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.Two things from that... 1. reasonable gun regulations are not unconstitutional
so things like closing gun show loopholes or limiting high capacity
clips/magazines is not a violation of your rights. 2. militia... there should be
a rule that says gun owners are first in line to be drafted, I'd be totally
willing to let the NRA have a ton of things it wants in exchange for that
provision to be added.
Sanpaco,I didn't tell you how to protect your family, now did I? I
wrote nothing promoting the banning of firearms. I pointed out some risks that
often get overlooked.
@Sanpaco 1:32 pmI found your entry quite interesting. Not the part
using the scriptures,I don't think that would stand scrutiny. However, the
second part it was human and reasonable (according to me). I am
strong believer in Gun Control yet I make the difference between Gun Control and
abolishing gun ownership.Personally, I have never and hope never
will allow a gun in my house. However, I can understand that some people may
feel a gun can be a good defense.I think most people in the U.S.
would agree that allowing a registered revolver or rifle for hunting, would be
O.K.However, can you explain to me why a household may need
automatic weapons?I don't think we have more crazy people in
the U.S. than other countries. I think the difference is that crazy people in
this country have more access to arms than other societies.@ DonnI have other anecdotes that have a very sad and chilling end.
@ Baccus0902, If you buy a gun to protect yourself. You are making the
conscientious decision that you are going to use the weapon and kill if
necessary. True,Several years ago while visiting California, I read in a
local paper where a dog got loose and attached some children in a home
pre-school the neighbor tried to chase it away with some garden tools but it
attached a 4 year old girl, while it was chewing on the girl the pre-school
lady went into the house came back and shot and killed the pit bull with a 9mm
pistol at point blank range. The cops did not press charges and California has
very tough gun controls versus Utah. The little girl recoverd.
In regards to the whole religious view of gun control, seems like the only
scriptures gun control advocates can ever remember are "Thou shalt not
kill" and "Love your enemy". Well here are just a few scriptures
that are pro 2nd amendment. "Whoso sheddeth man’s blood,
by man shall his blood be shed""If the thief is found
breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his
bloodshed.""...and he who has no sword, let him sell his
garment and buy one."The scriptures plainly state that we ought
to be able to protect ourselves. By no means however is it stated that we ought
to run around looking for opportunities to use our weapons. That seems to be
the factor that divides us. Gun control advocates think we just want to buy
weapons and run around shooting each other. Not the case at all. Believe me,
shooting someone is my LAST resort and I hope I never have to. But, I have made
the personal decision that saving innocent life and having that choice is better
than sitting there helplessly watching.
This biased 'article' (seems more like an editorial) has not truly
presented both sides of the issue. The reporter has presented this
"religious" issue as if it's a choice between gun control on the
one hand, or surrendering to gun violence on the other. In reality both of
these options encourage more gun violence.The true other side of the
issue is encouraging gun ownership and training for responsible, law-abiding
adults. This helps to deter gun violence or cut it short, which saves lives.
And if you want to put this in a religious context, how about the Declaration of
Independence, which says that our Creator has endowed us with the right to
EMajor,Your point about there being more family deaths than intruder
deaths in homes with guns is a valid one, however, the solution to this problem
is not to ban all guns but to educate gun owners about gun safety in the home.
That said, if you decide that you do not want guns in your home, well
that's fine with me and everyone else here, but its frankly none of your or
anyone else's business how I decide to protect my own family. If I decide
that I am willing to deal with that risk then that is my decision. Gun control
limits the rights of good people to make the choice of how they wish to protect
themselves. Make no mistake, no matter how many laws you make, criminals are
going to find guns.
@ Zoar 63Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. NoteA well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.There is some controversy in the way we interpret this amendment.
Historically the word "people" has been interpreted as meaning
individual citizens. If that was the original intent, perhaps is time to Amend
or eliminate the second amendment. 1791 and 2012 are quite different times,
wouldn't you agree?
" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
What does the word infringed mean generally speaking?
How does my faith intersect with my gun ownership?I believe that I
have right, granted by God and not by government, to protect my family.Much has been made of the argument that carrying a concealed handgun would not
have helped much in the Aurora theater shooting. That may be so.However, the point of carrying a concealed handgun is not to eliminate every
possibility of bodily harm. It is to lower that risk as much as possible. Not
every who dies by violent crime dies in a mass shooting.There are
thousands of actual and attempted carjackings, rapes, robberies, muggings, and
kidnappings every year in the United States. No one has a right to deny me a
chance to protect myself and my family from those things, unless I myself
squander that right through crime or irresponsibility.
“We don’t have a crime problem, or a gun problem, or even a violence
problem. What we have is a sin problem,” Huckabee said.The
ignorance and superstition of the Christian right is insufferable. The devil
made me do it! What about your free agency and free will. We are not slaves of
God or the Devil.If you buy a gun to protect yourself. You are
making the conscientious decision that you are going to use the weapon and kill
if necessary.What follows after that decision sometimes is very
different to what you had initially in mind.Our country may easily
be the most violent society in the western world. The NRA and its mindless
followers should consider gun control not as limitation of their freedom. But as
a compromise within the social contract of a modern and civilized society.
"Get a clue. . . guns do kill people. As for TJ's argument that the
cities and states with the strictest gun controls have the highest # of deaths,
this is twisted logic. The reason certain cities and states have gun controls is
because there are millions of unlicensed unregistered guns in the hands of
criminals in their city/state. All they criminals have to do is cross over to
states where there are little or no controls or just steal guns that are legally
owned."Perhaps you should sit down and read the firearms laws
that we already have. To make the statement some cities/states have "little
or no" controls shows you do not have a clear picture of the facts to say
the least! And yes, criminals are by definition those who don't obey laws,
no matter how many are written. It really has worked so well with other things
which have been made illegal to own/use. No, it's not so much a gun culture
as it is a sick society which most liberals refuse to address. Most
"good" citizens are raised in good homes. Most "bad" people come
from broken homes.
This really ISN'T a faith issue!THINGS are NEVER birthrights!And freedoms always come with responsibilities.
Thomas Jefferson,About your automobile analogy; that's a really
bad one too. The intent and purpose of the car is so different from hand guns
and assault rifles that you are not comparing apples and oranges. And no, you don't want to start an anecdotal evidence war about gun
control. For every example of a pistol-wielding hero who stops a bank robber
that may not have even harmed anyone in the first place, you can come up with an
example of the toddler who finds the family handgun, the drunken older brother
who forgot to clear the chamber before casually pointing it at his younger
brother's head (this was recently in the news), the case of domestic
homicide that would have turned out very differently if a lethal weapon
hadn't been within reach during the argument. I'd cite the Colorado
shooting, but like your examples above, that didn't occur to family members
within the home by the gun they assumed would be protecting them. I
don't want to take away your right to own handguns, but the gun rights
enthusiasts tend to overplay the benefits and downplay the risks.
Thomas Jefferson,You're using bad stats and anecdotal evidence.
Sorry, I don't have the citation in front of me, this is from a personal
acquaintance in the public health field. I have no reason to make it up though,
I'm not a gung-ho gun control kind of person. "The cities
and states with the strictest gun control laws have the highest # of death by
guns" Bad stats, bad reasoning. Correlation does not equal
causation; you are not taking a myriad of other factors into account to isolate
the effect of gun control. And what if these numbers are high because of
criminals shooting criminals? That wouldn't fit in with your thesis at
all."Read about the elderly gentleman that recently prevented a
hold up and hostage taking situation by firing on two thugs"Anecdotal and not relevant to the research I was referencing, which looked at
incidents within the home. i.e. the risk of stopping a home invasion vs.
accidentally/intentionally shooting a member of your own family. Context is
everything, and one example does not a pattern make!
Get a clue. . . guns do kill people. As for TJ's argument that the cities
and states with the strictest gun controls have the highest # of deaths, this is
twisted logic. The reason certain cities and states have gun controls is because
there are millions of unlicensed unregistered guns in the hands of criminals in
their city/state. All they criminals have to do is cross over to states where
there are little or no controls or just steal guns that are legally owned. Gun
control must be national and it must include a ban on assault weapons. It's
the gun culture pure and simple. Makes no difference if you're a gangsta
drug lord, a simple gang member or a god fearing member of the NRA. . .
it's still the gun culture.
One post says why is there a need for a civilian to have large capacity and
calibur weapons.Lets ask this another way,why does a non-military agency (law
enforcement)have the need of full automatic weapons with large capacity and
calibur ammo? Now I'm a gun owner and collector,I alos have large capacity
magazines.It's a pain to reload a mag with 5 rounds every couple of
minutes.It seves no purpose that put you at a disadvantage in a situation when
you're to far away from ammo in an emergency situation. Whether it be from
man or wild animal. I confine my shooting to targets and I don't hunt
animals unless there is a bonafide need.I have a healthy working knowledge of
all my weapons and they stay locked up but one for home protection.
Weird article. God and guns as a faith issue? A question of limited relevance
that is ancillary to the real issue: do guns keep you safer? What I've
heard second hand from public health experts is that the data shows a gun is far
more likely to be used against someone in the household than it is to be used
against an intruder. You've essentially increased your risk of injury by
violence. My neighborhood isn't anywhere near bad enough to take that risk.
No guns for me, then.
The real issue is why people need assault weapons with military firepower. Hard
to conceal and carry. Should everyone walk around with a weapon excessive
firepower? Ban assault weapons again. The right to keep and bear arms doe not
extend to nuclear arms.