Comments about ‘Dick Harmon: Penn State, BYU were once brothers in respectability’

Penn State is a good example to BYU and every other school that tries to run a clean program that one rogue individual, left unchecked, can destroy the reputation of an entire institution.

I feel sad that it is the players who get the raw end of that deal. Stripping them of their wins, reputation of the school they play for and pride. They didn't deserve it anymore than those that were abused. Sad all the way around! I hope those responsible are happy. You choose your actions, you don't get to choose the consequences and who they hurt.

I love the coaches we have at every school in Utah, Kyle, bronco and Gary are all exceptional men. A few years ago when bronco made public his list of priorities I was extremely impressed with his candor and his dedication to the young men he coached. Watching my Utes and how coach whittingham runs his program I am sure he has much the same priorities, he just doesn't feel the need to make it public. For that reason I am proud to wear my drum and feather and throw up my "U"

Wow! My respect for Bronco just grew more.

I'm going to give an opinion that may not be very popular: the NCAA had not business doing what they did.

Unless I missed something, the "infractions" don't have anything to do with the NCAA rule book. Don't get me wrong, what Sandusky did is absolutely deplorable. And I do believe the University and Paterno know stuff was going on and covered it up. But NCAA sanctions are not the way to address those problems. Criminal prosecution is.

Again, I might be missing something here as far as NCAA rules go. But punishing the current (and future) players and coaches is NOT the way to handle this.

Now vacating his wins record? That I can handle because it directly punishes Paterno's legacy.

The article mentioned NC....A note on this: byu's SOS ranked #96 out of 98 total teams ranked in 1984.

Re: AZUTE1

So what is your point? BYU DID win the National Championship in 1984. It is an historical fact. How does SOS change that?

@Keisels Beard

Yep. You are definitely missing something. The University profits from its football program, apparently to the tune of $60 million per year. The University was complicit in a coverup for the purpose of protecting its brand and image and its revenue stream. Yeah, it stinks for the players who played in those games that were vacated and for those who won't be able to play in any bowl games. But that is the consequence. Part of the purpose of the punishment was to send a clear message to other Universities NOT to break the law in the pursuit of money for its athletic program. In the age of BCS dollars, it is nice to see some priorities being put in line.

Joe Paterno allowed Sandusky to get a retirement package, maintain an office on-camous and visit team practices after he was knew about the child sex abuse allegations. This is deplorable. Penn State was rightly punished, but received the wrong punishment.

Stripping the wins and Joe Pa's place in the record books was petty. There is no reason to disqualify the wins since there was no cheating.

The postseason bowl ban was appropriate, but the loss of reputation and recruiting ability is what will kill the football program. Bowl games are essentially meaningless and except for a handful of bowls, don't make the program any money. The only reason to play in a bowl game is to get the extra practices and for recruiting.

The $60 million fine should have Penn State evaluating whether to maintain an athletic program. As it is the athletic program will be losing millions of dollars a year, and unlikely to break even for probably 10 years.

Re: A1994

I definitely understand the point. But my questions is: what NCAA rules did they violate?

@AZUTE1,

Interestingly, BYU's SOS of 96 was two places higher than Utah's 2004 SOS of 98.

Your point?

I fail to see how Jerry Sandusky's criminal acts gave Penn State a competitive advantage in any way. If anything, they lost much of that when Sandusky was fired/retired because he was an excellent defensive coordinator. Remember how his defense stifled the mighty Miami Hurricanes in an NC game at the Orange Bowl? Everybody expected a blowout by Miami.

If Joe Paterno, PSU, et al, had stepped up in 1998 and called the cops, their image would have been greatly enhanced as would have recruiting and their competitive edge. There is no getting around the fact that PSU managers made a large, large error in judgment when they tried to cover up what was happening. Cover ups usually work against you, no matter who or what you are. Do the names Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton ring any bells? History repeats itself when it is ignored.

I think if Penn State appeals and any of this ends up in a court room, the NCAA will lose badly.

NevadaCoug

"What NCAA rules did they violate?"

Penn State accepted the findings of the Criminal Jury and the Freeh Report as the factual basis,... and acknowledged that those facts constitute violations of the Constitutional and Bylaw principles described in a November 17, 2011 letter from NCAA President Mark Emmert to Penn State President Rodney Erickson.

1. A failure to value and uphold institutional integrity demonstrated by inadequate, and in some instances non-existent, controls and oversight surrounding the athletics program of the University...

2. A failure to maintain minimal standards of appropriate and responsible conduct... to foster an environment and culture of honesty, as exemplified by NCAA Bylaws 10.01.1 and 11.1.1, and by Bylaw 10.1 on ethical conduct... Article 2.4 of the NCAA Constitution requires athletic programs to adhere to fundamental values of respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility.

3. A lack of adherence to fundamental notions of individual integrity... to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and promote civility in society.

Source:
Binding Consent Decree Imposed by the NCAA and Accepted by the Pennnsylvania State University

Penn State football has already agreed NOT to appeal.

I think the $60 million was the total revenue from the football program,. The total profit will be a lot less since the football program is incredibly expensive and subsidizes the rest of the athletic program. With the loss of scholarships, the football program won't be competitive for 10 years or more.

Basically the NCAA is saying it will cost you $60 million to continue your membership, oh and by the way your athletic program will be losing millions for the next 10 years. There's no way it makes financial sense to keep playing sports at Penn State unless the fine is reduced or linked to a percentage of profits.

CA. reader

"I think if Penn State appeals and any of this ends up in a court room, the NCAA will lose badly."

Not a chance!

By signing the decree, Penn State expressly agreed NOT to challenge the Consent Decree and waived ANY claim to further process, including, without limitation, any right to a determination of violations by the NCAA Committe on Infractions, an appeal under NCAA rules, and any judicial process related to the subject matter of the Consent Decree.

Any attempt by Penn State to circumvent the Sanctions imposed by the Consent Decree would lead to an extension of the term of the sanctions and the imposition of addtional sanctions, up to and including, a temporary ban on participation in certain intercollegiate athletic competition and additional fines.

In other words, Penn State football could get the death penalty if Penn State tried to breach the Consent Decree.

Like it or not it's a done deal.

Penn State's only course of action is to put this behind them and forge ahead to fundamentally change the culture that allowed this to happen in the first place.

"UTAH wasn't crowned NC, as byu erroneously was."

You say erroneously, implying that BYU was not the true national champion that year. You say it as if another team deserved it more, or that another team was better than BYU in 1984. Well, guess what? There wasn't. That's why BYU got the national championship. They were the best team that year. All other possibilities are suspect because they chose NOT to play BYU, knowing full well that if BYU won they would be champions. They chose not to try to prove that they were the best. Besides, BYU beat Washington the next year anyway, removing that doubt.

AZUTE1

You must be very proud of those SOS trophies sitting in Utah's trophy case.

Envious *snicker* BYU fans will just have settle for those Crystal Football National Championship and Stiff Arm trophies sitting in BYU's trophy case.

Sorry to burst your BYU-hating bubble, but no amount of whining from the jealous kids on the hill will ever change the FACT, that BYU was the CONCENSUS 1984 Major College Football National Champion!

AZUTE1

As BYU fans, we're pleased that you're so proud of those prestigious SOS trophies in Utah's trophy case.

We're even more proud of the Crystal Football National Championship and Heisman Trophies we see in BYU's trophy case everytime we visit BYU's Sports Hall of Fame.

Bottom line, no matter how much our jealous little friends on the hill whine, BYU was and will always be the CONCENSUS 1984 Major College Football National Champions!

Utah has never even come close to accomplishing what BYU did from 1979 to 1984 to ultimately win the national championship.

Both Army and Navy have won national championships without NCAA violations.

Sorry Dick.

Supercool11:

Your observation that..."There is no reason to disqualify the wins since there was no cheating". "Are you kidding me"? Joe Pa cheated when he failed to report child abuse from Sandusky fearing NCAA sanctions.