"With only four scholarships available, BYU won’t be competing for a
lot of the top national talent this coming January and will likely receive one
of its lowest cumulative rankings for a recruiting class." -- Brandon
GurneyEven lower than LAST season's recruiting class? Wow!
Tough break cougs."Mendenhall surely doesn’t care how
national pundits will rank his class, but should fans?"Not
necessarily. Sure, the Y hasn't been bringing in stellar recruiting
classes ever since they announced their intentions to play their football in the
WAC, but then again, you don't NEED top talent to play WAC football. And
if there's one thing that has been made abundantly clear from the
cougars' fanbase, it's that it doesn't matter who they play. All
that matters is Ws. And how could you not get a lot of wins playing in the
WAC?If the cougars continue to beat Idaho, NMSU, SJSU, et al, the
fans will be appeased, and Holmoe gets to keep his job. It's a
win-win....well, at least it is for those in cougar nation who aren't
paying very close attention to their football program.
@ Spokane Ute,The kids that go to BYu have dreamt of that fate since
they were 4-5 years old. BYu has such a narrow pool of prospects. They always
A top recruiting class and $1.00 will get you a bottled water. However, I would
rather have a highly rated class, than one that is not. I'm surprised BYU
has a number of players who didn't even have another offer. I'm also
surprised at how early they have basically wrapped up their class. Then again,
all of these comittments are verbal; some will change. @ just the
FaxSomething wrong with Utah fans commenting on a BYU article? Like that
never happens on a Ute article. The pointed, obnoxious comments flow both ways;
don't kid your self.
The bottom line is this.......Utah is in the big time, and BYU is NOT! The TRUTH
is what it is.
2fer"In my opinion the difference is coaching..."hedgy claims it's all about recruitingSo, if Whittingham is
such a genius...Why did he lose to two 10-loss teams?Why did
he lose to every bottom-dweller in the MWC?Why didn't Utah win the
pathetically weak PAC 12 South?Why has Whittingham only finished in the
Top 25 three times, while Bronco has cracked the Top 25 FIVE times, with
supposedly inferior talent?More puzzling, Why are so
many Utah trolls hanging out on a BYU recruiting blog discussing a recruiting
class that Utah has no interest in ever competing against on the playing field -
at least according to the trolls?
There is a big difference between not being able to sign 4 star players and not
wanting to recruit 4 star players. I think the question on the table is
really the latter.
I don't believe Bronco will ever be able to recruit more than a few non LDS
players to his program and those players will not be of the same quality as his
LDS players. As for LDS players, with Utah now in the PAC12 and USU
in the Mountain West, LDS kids will have other choices and both schools
understand how the mission process works, so the Y has a lot of competition from
better or rising programs.
Sometimes the debate and analysis is just too much! Too many all-knowing fanboys
both for and against BYU who choose whatever stats support their position.Proof is always on the field, on the field, on the field! Excited for
the games to begin!
That would be the same UCLA that went to the first ever conference championship
game instead of U?
SportsFan:UCLA can't compete with Utah either. In my opinion
the difference is coaching....
@serenity now:I think most comments are in agreement with you
timeframe of comparative recruit ranking between the Y and the U. Could
"independence" and PAC-12 status be a factor? I think recruiting and
season ticket renewals are two measureable standards upon which to evaluate
Independence. The quality of teams the Y is able to schedule is a third
measureable standard. (I know they have some twenty games scheduled against
good teams; but that is out of some 120 games in a ten year span. The Y has had
close to two years since they declared independence to schedule future
opponents. 2014 has some good home games but beyond that lettle is known. Just
like Utah's 2012 recruiting I home good news is soon on the horizon for
hedgehog"So it sounds we're in agreement that star ranking
does matter."We're in agreement that according to your
"star theory," Utah will never have a chance of winning the PAC 12
South, so Utah fans can lay off all of the talk about ever having a chance to
play in a Rose Bowl, much less, ever be selected to play in the 4-team
playoff.The Utes will be a perennial middle of the PAC team, with a
high water mark of 2nd in the division.============ESPN
Recruiting Class Rankings for the Last 8 Years2013#6 USC#21 Wash#24 Stan#25 Ore2012#12 Stan#13
USC#18 Ore#19 UCLA#22 Cal#23 Wash2011#4 USC#14 Ore#18 Cal#21 Stan#24 Wash2010#7 USC#10 UCLA#15 Cal#18 Stan#20 Wash#22 Ore2009#4 USC#17 UCLA 2008#7
USC#14 UCLA#17 ASU#24 Colo2007#1 USC#23 Ore2006#2 USC#19 UCLAIf UCLA
can't even compete with USC, what makes you think Utah can?
Beyond that, this class has done an alright job at addressing the needs of the
team. It looks like BYU has recruited the D-line position well, but BYU could
probably use another offensive or defensive lineman for this class. I think that
the greatest 2013 need by far is the secondary, again, particularly the corner
position. I hope that Tre Flowers and Jarveon Williams, as well as Carroll
Washington get a strong look since all of those guys are needed to contribute at
corner right away. Other than that, BYU has filled in at depth pretty well.
There are quite a few layers to the recruiting science. For the
believers in the star system, a lot of people have said that BYU's "all
time best" recruiting class was only ranked so high because of Mr. 5 star
himself Jake Heaps. I did the math and even with Jake Heaps out of the equation,
BYU's 2010 class still had enough star power to be ranked at 33rd in 2010
instead of 22nd, which is right around what Utah's first "mighty
Pac-12" class was ranked this year. So make no mistake, BYU has star power
waiting in the wings. That's the other thing to remember,
because of so many missions and redshirt years we have to basically wait 3-4
YEARS before we can see these players significantly contribute. There are still
recruits on the roster from 2006, Bronco's first recruiting class! While
there isn't loads of star power in this class, there seems to be more speed
and athletic ability. Utah has thrived off diamond in the rough athletes for
years. As long as BYU keeps winning and stays relevant, BYU will have a chance
at better recruits in the future.
BYu is on a roll.......another top notch WAC class. Gooooooooo big blue!
Bronco has earned my respect by producing winning teams over the last 7 years,
but the last two years of recruiting have been a bit disappointing when going
solely by the rankings--which is the only objective criteria to go by until
several years into their college careers when they start performing or flaking
out. 3 years ago BYU had that great recruiting class that Jake Heaps helped put
together, getting Apo, Stout, Quesada, Jordan Johnson, Fua, Van Noy (who came a
year earlier but delayed enrollment a year), and several others. At the time
and for the 3 years prior, BYU had out-recruited Utah for the top players in the
state, as Utah focused on recruits in Texas and California. During the last 2
years (since the PAC 12 announcement), however, Utah has re-focused in the state
and is probably level with or slightly ahead of BYU, with Utah
recruits---Hopefully BYU can pull ahead again with in-state kids (Utah HS
football gets better each year) because there aren't enough talented,
out-of-state LDS players to make up for a shortfall with in-state recruiting.
We shall see. The 'star' ranking do make a difference based on the
higher percentage of 4 and 5 stars that end up as pros but the quality of a
recruiting class won't be known for 2-4 years. The Y got a bunch of
quality kids but they may or may not be able to compete at a high level down the
road. Not knocking these recruits but Stanford has some similar standards and
year in and year out has a better recruiting class.
Sportfan,So it sounds we're in agreement that star ranking does
hedgehog"getting into the top 10 is the big hurdle. No question
about it, it's going to take winning and winning games that count. USC at
the RES is the first step"You just blew your entire theory
completely out of the water suggesting that Utah, without a single Top 25
recruiting class, could beat USC at RES.Utah hasn't had a
single Top 25 recruiting class in the past EIGHT years (per ESPN).USC has
averaged Top 5.5 recruiting classes the past EIGHT years!According
to your own recruiting class ranking theory, Utah has an insurmountable hurdle
to even challenge USC, let alone beat the Trojans.We'll check
back as often as you'd like.Only in your wildest dreams will
the Utes ever surpass the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, USC,
Alabama, LSU, Florida, Clemson, Auburn, Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami, Texas,
Oklahoma, and Texas A&M to finish in the Top 10 even once.
"Even with Utah's supposed improvement in recruiting, the Utes will be
lucky to have a Top 25 recruiting class once every 10 years"
MussingUtah was a top 25 class
just last year (per rivals). Getting into the top 25 isn't the
challenge....getting into the top 10 is the big hurdle. No question about it,
it's going to take winning and winning games that count. USC at the RES is
the first step.Bascially the next generation of athletes from Cali
will need to view Utah as a PAC12 power instead of just the new guys. Check back
in 5 years.
For decades the BYU fawning media has extolled the stars in BYU's
recruiting classes...The media nearly exploded over the stars of one
Jake Heaps... Now Gurney is selling the spin that stars don't
matter?The apocalypse is surely upon us.
Alot of early comits does not mean much. You can sign all you want but without
elite athletes it means nothing, it is just a numbers game.
hedgehog"Hate to break it to you but...stars matter...a lot.
Every National Champion in the BCS era has had consistent top recruiting
classes."Then you can forget Utah ever competing for a national
championship, because the Utes will NEVER have consistent top recruiting
classes. Even with Utah's supposed improvement in recruiting, the Utes will
be lucky to have a Top 25 recruiting class once every 10 years.
Well, let the season begin! Utah up, BYU down. Looks great to me!
@ Winglish 3:55pmcorrection - Boise State had SIX players taken in
this years NFL draft (two in the first round), plus several undrafted FAs. NONE
of these players would have been considered NFL prospects when they were
recruited by the Broncos.
hedgehog - I'm surprised at how normal you are being in this comment board.
You're usually not as objective as you have been. I actually agree with
most of what you have said. BYU has a decent recruiting class but not near what
it will take to win a national championship. Sad thing is, Utah will never get
the type of recruits they need to win a NC either. Being in Utah, the Utes are
at a disadvantage compared to all the other PAC teams. Top recruits will always
choose the So. Cal schools, Oregon, and other warmer weather schools before even
considering the Utes. The Utes are still regarded as a bottom tier MWC school
that got an invite. I'm not trying to rip the Utes, I'm simply
pointing out fact. Utah will practically have to go undefeated in the PAC
before they will earn any sort of respect and recruits will continue to flow to
other teams until that happens.
Wow, Bronco admits openly that he doesn't care about the quality of his
recruits and you people fall all over yourselves trying to say why he's
right to aim so low. Why can't you have kids that live good standards, are
academic all-stars as well as top athletes? What kind of kids are we raising in
the Church? I'm not saying we have to be "Tiger Parents" but the
day we accept mediocrity, we lose it as a culture. Too many of you are just
happy we show up and field a team. What about Stanford? They
don't give up anything to recruit the smartest and best athletes. They were
in the BCS last year and have been contenders for some time. I frankly
don't want the "exposure" we will get with so-so players on ESPN
vs. the Notre Dames and Georgia Techs of the world.
Our defense will be stellar in 2012, maybe the best front seven in school
history. But I'm very worried about the defense in 2013. We will lose our
entire two deep defensive line, and we'll likely lose 3 of our 4 starting
LBs - Uona and Ogletree to graduation and Van Noy will likely be a first round
NFL pick if he leaves early. Hopefully, we can fill these gaps. Overall, the
recruiting class looks solid.
So, let's summarize:1) every year there are teams that are
under-achievers, based on their talent.2) every year there are teams that
are over-achievers, based on their talent.3) BYU is challenged by the
Honor Code. Most fans are very pleased with that.4) BYU recruiting is
challenged by the ebb and flow of missionaries. So is Utah, but BYU much more
so. Most fans are very pleased with that.5) Bronco prefers 40% talent and
60% hard work to the other way around. Some fans are not happy with that.6) Bronco has priorities that are perfect for the eternal perspective, not so
much if your obsession is a New Year's day or better bowl.7) For BYU
fans, hope springs eternal. For many Utah fans, this is a constant source of
delight and derision.If those are my choices, color me Cougar Blue.
Chicken McNuggetville UT - anyone from there probably knows what he is talking
DuckhunterHighland, UTThe true definition of a nerd is someone
who acts like they know everyone and has all sorts of insight into athletics and
athletes because they state that they live by them or went to school with them.
In reality, they know very little as is evidenced by their posts. They also end
many of their posts with LOL.
Two of Utah's most prominent NFL players right now - Alex Smith and Eric
Weddle - weren't top rated recruits. The recruiting service rankings are
interesting, but not the end all be all. I'm no Bronco lover,
but he has done a really nice job of recruiting "BYU players" to BYU. He
is largely recruiting mostly LDS kids and his recruiting success year after year
will be a how good that pool is. Some years, there are a lot of great Mormon
kids, the next year, the talent may be sparse. All in all Bronco does a pretty
good job putting a decent team on the field. I really appreciate that he has
priorities when it comes to recruiting that he won't compromise.
Brandon Gurney's writing is much improved since his early days writing for
the DN. Keep workin, buddy, you're getting better. It would be
"number" and quality of offers...not "amount" and quality of
'My guess is that there is very little correlation between high school
ranking and college success"Blue Husky,Actually
Rivals had a great article last year showing the correlation between star
rankings and players drafted into the NFL. Really no suprises.A
higher % of 4 andr 5 stars are drafted into the NFL than any other group.There are more 2 and 3 star players in the NFL simply because the 2/3
star universe is four times the size of the 4/5 star universe.
Recruiting is not a science, it is an art. Sometimes four star players
don't pan out. Nevertheless, the idea that "star" players are not
wanted does not seem to be good logic. In all organizations, better talent
provides better results. It makes me wonder why someone would want to focus
recruiting on walk-ons, "no stars", and left-over JC's. I
don't think one can point to a place where this strategy has been
effective. I'm disapppointed that BYU does not seem to want to be the
best. (The basketball programs, men and women's, seem to be going in the
opposite direction by trying to get the best talent they can sign.)
I think the recruiting sites probably get the very top recruits identified
correctly, but there are not very many of those and anyone that can see can do
that. Were they fail is in the vast middle, the kids they rank 2 to 4 stars.
We've all seen far to many 2 stars become stars and 4 stars not become much
of anything to not realize it is all conjecture and opinion.For
instance what is the difference between a kid with 3 stars and a kid with 4?
Probably not much, just the opinion of the site doing the rankings.I
have to laugh at the hedgies of the world that somehow think they know stuff
simply because they see it online on some recruiting site. Those kinds of people
are the same sort of nerds that read comic books and play video games and for
some reason think it is important. They are the types that cheered loudly at the
spiderman movie the other night that I took my 11 year old to see. It's
just a MOVIE, it isn't real. In otherwords things that aren't real are
the things they consider important.LOL!
@robinDo you always just make stuff up and hope no one will call you
on it? They didn't even have recruit rankings like this back in the
80's. In otherwords not one word of your post was true or accurate but it
was hilarious to read. I actually spit root beer onto my keyboard when I read it
and saw the ridiculous falsehood you were tryingto claim as truth.LOL!
@hedgehog- Boise State had 5 players drafted into the NFL this year. I would
say their success came from having NFL level talent combined with great
coaching. Other than that, I agree with your post. BYU has not been successful
in recruiting many NFL caliber players lately. That 1984 team had 12 players
get drafted. That's half of the starters! I don't believe we'll
ever see those kinds of numbers at BYU again. I am a BYU fan and I think
we need to realize who we are: a top level WAC or MWC team. That's good
enough for me. I simply love watching football. I can enjoy a 9-3 record just
fine. It's enough to know that the Utes are too scared to play the Cougars
Oneil Chambers in the Defensive Backfield? When did he rejoin the team? That
is Great news. I have always hoped Oneil would come back. The kid is a pure
Having the entire defensive front two deep all be seniors doesn't look good
for the next couple of years. That group needs to be spread out in future
Funny how Texas with all their star recruits,could only beat BYU by one point on
their home field.Alabama wouldn't recruit the utes best
players--Barry Switzer.Recruiting is not an exact science with alot
High School rankings are just fan boy concerns. Yes, there are a few standouts
who go to the big schools. If I cared enough, I could probably put together a
dataset for statistical analysis. I don't, but if one of you guys want to
do it, here's what I would need:HS Position.Year
ranked.Number of Stars.Year graduated.College offers.College chosen.College position.Scholarship/walkon?Years
started.Years played.Year graduated.College honors? What?Pro drafted?Pro walkon?Pro team.Pro position.Years
played.Allstar team?Probably some site out there with these
data. Download and send them to me. Geatumspraec@yahoo.comI'll
let you know what's what. My guess is that there is very little correlation
between high school ranking and college success.
BYU is the destination for Kids and their families that want an LDS lifestyle.
They never have and ever will get the best of the best. Thats what makes it
great because we win with those just like us. It's us against the world.
It's awesome to have the hedgehogs of he world denegrate us, then crawl in
a hole when we win. BYU is one of 11 schools that have finished the season
ranked in the top 25 five of the last six years. The Ute's are not on that
list. Go bronco! Go BYU!
@BYU_Aggie"Recruiting rankings are almost utter
nonsense."That's not what we were hearing out of you guys
in the 80's when BYU's recruiting classes were ranked so much higher
than Utah's. Where do you think the term "February championship"
came from? It came from the haughty laughter of BYU fans after LOI day and
another great recruit class was in the bag.So in summary, when BYU
was raking in highly-regarded recruits, rankings meant everything. But now that
BYU's recruiting has tanked, rankings are "utter nonsense." Does
everyone understand now?
BYU aggie,Hate to break it to you but...stars matter...a lot. Every
National Champion in the BCS era has had consistent top recruiting classes.
Although I love BSU, their success comesform great coaching in their one or two
big games per year. The jury is still out on wether they could do what they do
on a weekly basis.The reality is bYu never has had (and never will)
the talent to win a BCS era national championship. What happen in '84
could never happen today. It's time to just be happy you have games on TV.
Probably one of the best ever. For sure.We don't ever loose recruits.
Recruiting rankings are almost utter nonsense. Like 3grandslams mentions,
Mangum wasn't even in ESPN's maxpreps' top 150 (or whatever)
until he came out as the #1 overall MVP in the Elite 11 (he had already
committed to BYU). Jake Heaps rings a bell (top overall QB recruit that year),
and he couldn't even hold his starting spot, despite multiple chances.Notre Dame has, year in and year out, one of the highest overall
recruiting rankings, and where have they been the last few years? What about
all those stellar Boise State years? Did they have all the five-star ranked
talent back then? Of course not.Point is, recruiting rankings are
As much of a fan as I am of BYU, it will be very difficult for them to get to
the bcs or the coming playoff with the players they recruit. It's just not
a priority to get the best players in the country because they can't get
them. Like the article said, they have very different parameters to recruit by
and those requirements take top talent out of the mix. After Scary Crowton, the
church won't tolerate bad media coming from fools on the football team, and
his teams were awful anyway. So Bronco is meeting that expectation first, to
recruit dudes that will live by the honor code, and if they can play football,
great. Somehow Cougar fans need to get comfortable with the past 7 seasons
ending win totals, because that's as good as it will get. That's no
disrespect, because the team as performed well when compared nationally, as far
as win totals. With better teams on the schedule after this last year of the
weak sauce wac, ten wins going forward should be celebrated. If they make it to
the playoffs, I'll be happy to eat my words.
Gurney's just throwing a bone to ute fans and giving them a chance to take
cheap shots...which they will. Plenty of excellent talent coming
into BYU and no, it's not going down in quality, only committing earlier.
National rankings don't consider that, there best guess is who is getting
the calls. They have nothing to go on, case in point, Tanner Mangum. BYU found
him and committed him way before "recruiting services" did. Now that
he's shown his stuff he's a hot commodity.
Wow! I've got to give Gurney credit for being objective and honest. I
agree that bYu fans are now left with only prayer in hoping bronko knows what
he's doing.Gurney is smart enough to know where this class will
end up being ranked on signing day. Stratigically it was a smart move to soften
the crushing failure by informing bYu fans early in the year that this class
will be one of the worst in the past 10 years.
If you look at the recruiting services, BYU's recruiting class has gone
down in quality each year recently. Hopefully, Bronco is able to turn this
around. Despite Gurney's rallying the troops, this is trouble if it