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Comments about ‘Father's Day: Are dads really disposable?’

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Published: Thursday, June 14 2012 2:34 p.m. MDT

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cjb
Bountiful, UT

Another example of social 'science' finally catching up with common sense.

VIDAR
Murray, UT

They should send this study to every divorce court judge in America. Anyone who thinks there is equality between the sexes need only go to a divorce court hearing and see how men are treated vs. women.
Joint custody of children should be the rule instead of the exception. There should not be an economic incentive for women to seek sole custody.
All a woman has to do is say she does not want to cooperate and she is usually given sole custody.
We have an entire government agency that enforces child support; they have to teeth to resolve back support immediately.
There is nothing to ensure children are given the court ordered visitation. The non-custodial parent only has the court to go to; the same court where they were treated like a second class citizen.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

"Disposable" is an interesting word. Hopefully the moderator will allow me to go a bit off-topic in order to make a point that I think resonates with this article.

Michael Sandel argued about "Designer babies" and the moral implications of people genetically engineering their children. He used an real-life example of a lesbian couple that wanted a deaf baby as they were deaf themselves. They found a 'donor' and succeeded in having the child. Sandel argued that commercializing child rearing would have devastating moral consequences on the relationship between children and parents. He argued that children would eventually blame parents for not being attractive enough, having the perfect skin color, or being smart enough- that the 'right' genes weren't chosen.

What I think is interesting is that the problematic growth of relativism in place of moral ideals is fostering a society of 'pick and choose' everything about your life according to convenience instead of living according to any form of moral principles. The whole notion of fathers being disposable is just as irrational.

In another comment I'll make another point relating to the connection of the 'pick and choose' amoral society and 'disposable dads'.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

From the article-

"Boys who are raised in homes with their fathers are more likely to acquire the sense of self-worth and self-control that..."

Our society is increasingly becoming a 'pick and choose' society that rejects the moral values our nation was founded on. The whole notion of self-worth is entirely abused when a parent decides to change the genes of the child instead of accept and praise someone for who they are.

A very different example relating to this self-worth dilemma-

I know people who like gothlic 'styles' and think that 'goody-good Mormons' are hiding their true 'selves'. I've always found this odd as covering your body with things to change yourself is the real abandonment of who we are.

But what's interesting to me here, is that from these rationals we can clearly see that self-worth and self-value is fostered in accepting who we are and where we truly come from, not in arbitrarily rejecting who we are. Fathers are essential to the human picture and when we dispose of that Father & Mother reality, the reality of the human identity... then happiness cannot be realized. Ignorance was never bliss.

Twin Sister
LINDON, UT

Excellent article. My daughter is writing her master's thesis on the essential role of the father in fostering healthy, thriving children. I appreciate the message this article points out about the important impact a married father has on the health and well being of his own children--sons and daughters--and, therefore, society at large. Happy Father's Day to all of the dedicated fathers out there! Your family and society need you!

ClarkKent
Bountiful, Utah

Don't even try to blame this concept on Hollywood. As a man, I have to say that I am more than disgusted with the way my gender tends to disappear out of their children's lives after divorce. They treat their children as though their children are disposable. I've seen this time and time again. When a man doesn't receive custody, he tends to find other things to consume his free time - that would be women, for the most part. Soon, the women become much more important to him than his own children. He thinks if he pays child support he can get away with little to no one-on-one time with his own children, and instead, spends much of his free time dating and perhaps marrying again and starting a new family. Men, in my opinion, have created this notion and they are the ones who need to change it.

Twin Sister
LINDON, UT

@ cjb

Yes, it is common sense. However, what I have learned is that what is "common sense" has to be supported by credible research which can take years to prove by the scientific method in order to create legislation, etc. that supports that common sense which hopefully will eventually make the world a better place. Additionally, and unfortunately, what is common sense to some isn't always common sense to others; therefore, we see the need for credible, reliable scientific research to support "common sense."

Grandma Char
Kaysville, UT

Of course father's are not disposable. I have 3 little grandsons whose father left their family because he didn't want to break away from his pornography addiction. He says he has now, but has married someone else and has left his family living in poverty. His boys are crushed and want his attention. He acts like it is ok to give just what the divorce decree tells him to give. His 13 year old son is so devastated and needs a good male role model! But, rather than waking up and doing that for his son, he is moving to Minnesota! It just makes me so unhappy to see my grandsons suffer. Fathers are needed and should be doing everything they can to live a life that can make their children proud, and then spending as much time with them as possible! Divorce where children are involved leaves behind a sting in children than never goes away. It hangs over them like a cloud the rest of their lives.

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

My father was a psychologist and had over 40 years of experience with this very subject and would confirm the results as briefly described in this article. The effects of children being raised without father's is incredibly complex, and of course their is no single scenario and no simple solutions.

Ideally, husband and wife (both genders are needed for a complete upbringing) marry and remain together always. When that doesn't play out; for what ever reason, if because of divorce, the courts need to do a better job of giving more rights to the fathers. If it was a result of death, then an uncle or grandfather or similar, needs to fill the void.

To simply assume that if we can create life in a test-tube then we have evolved beyond the need for parents is the most non scientific conclusion possible.

To all the fathers and to all those who deserve to be fathers -- Happy Father's Day. May you get the respect and recognition you deserve and may you be even more determined to return the favor next Mother's Day.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Twin Sister,

I mean this kindly and with no ill-intent... but I consider common sense to be the opposite of what you described. lol To me 'common sense' describes what we already know before further observations/reasoning is applied.

As far as the scientific method goes, I'd suggest taking a philosophy course or two. Most philosophers would argue that such methods don't prove anything.

When scientific laws have been disproved, and while mankind is not omniscient, and while man-made methods are as flawed as their creator- such methods have very little value towards actually proving anything. Is science of value? Absolutely! But science isn't a world of "We know this and you're all wrong!" It's a world of "There is always more to discover and as much as I know now... I'll be happy to learn more tomorrow, whether it is congruous with my current observations or not."

The problem with scientists is that the great majority of them today have abandoned that second idea, the core benefit of science- in favor of the first idea I stated where it's more about an agenda and not about anything sensible or rational.

raybies
Layton, UT

To reach a conclusion that fathers don't matter, one must only depend solely upon anecdotal evidence. Take the most wonderful single parent you can think of, then compare that parent with the worst case father you ever knew. See! It's much better to have no father.

And that's about the extent of brainpower most people put into it. And most don't even realize what they're doing. They're just so hurt by some jerk somewhere, that they throw out the whole of society claiming none of it matters.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

raybies,

To argue against the validity or rational use of anecdotal evidence, one ultimately is saying that subjective experiences are invalid or cannot be used to form a rational opinion. This is false reasoning. I'm not saying that 'having dad in the home automatically means happy'. I don't know that anyone really believes that. I didn't get along with a parent at all growing up and still hardly do. I still see the irreplaceable value of children having their mother.

In The Family: A Proclamation to the World, it reads "Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ."

One can live a respectable, moral, and happy life as a divorced person or widower and so on. Children can grow in such circumstances as well. Most 'pro-family commenters' on here don't argue against that- only that having a Father and Mother in the home is part of the proper telos of the home. Clearly, other factors can erode that telos. But that doesn't disprove or say anything contrary to the claim that "Father & Mother" is in fact part of that functional design.

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