If the wolverines are coming to Salt Lake in 2015 that gives Utah enough time to
expand RES by rebuilding the south end zone and adding 11,000 seats as is the
plan anyway. So let's get it done and those seats will be gone in a heart
The first of many marquee nonconference games on Utah's schedule.Boom.
Nice, there's not many cup cakes in the Big 10; or PAC 12 for that matter.
Nice job Utah!
hmmm, living in Ann Arbor and listing to local sports radio....it's a done
deal. Although it's funny how Michigan is talking about it more than
Utah.The "rumor" has been floating around A2 for over a
year. The offical anouncement is sometime this week or next.The UofM
is very selective when it extends home and homes - infact only 2 PAC12 teams in
the past 15 years have recieved a home and home with UofM.
@ Tomahawk Red,"The first of many marquee nonconference games on
Utah's schedule."Haha...what you said means two things:1. Since it is the "first" I guess that means no one outside of
consequence, outside a required conference opponent, has ever played at RES. I
would agree with you.2. Since the "first" won't happen for
three more years, I guess that you can count on one possible visitor every four
seasons or so? I would agree with that as well.This doesn't
mean that there are programs just waiting to come and play is minuature 44k seat
stadium...it just means that is was convenient for Michigan's scheduling
..."it just means that is was convenient for Michigan's scheduling
needs" - Just wonderingCouple thoughts:1) Did Holmoe
try to get a 1for1 with Michigan and got shot down? I would guess yes.2)
Would Holmoe do just about anything to get Michigan on it's schedule even
in September - the answer is yes.So Why did UofM pass on bYu and
instead select (as poster say) a much smaller fanbase/stadium/program in Utah?
Remember this has nothing to do with the PAC12/BIG10 agreement.Questions...so many questions.
Just Stumbling...Yeah pretty much.We don't need
that many nonconference marquee games on the schedule since our conference gives
us plenty of marquee conference opponents.Nice try though.PS- When was the last time the Kitties have had a marquee home nonconference
foe? 1990? Sounda about right.
Nothing brings me more joy. I hope the Utes keep getting teams like UM, because
Utah is no UM. You need to beat Colorado before you hope to beat UM. I love it
when Utah is 4-7, 5-6. However, the PAC10.2 does have dogs, Arizona, Wash St,
OST, Colorado and UCLA most of the time. USC does have it easy. Ute fans
actually think they are somebody. Not yet, win a Rose bowl first. Dont say BCS,
your schedule was too easy to be respected outside SLC.
What I love is that Utah thinks they can even beet MU. When we beat a very under
rated MU it was for the indisputed National Title.They also couldn't
even beet Colorado even thought it was a total fluke they beat us by 44.
Black Shirts- It's fun to dream ain't it? As if Utah was going
"4-7, 5-6" with regularity. Haha. When was the last time Utah went
5-7? I guess you can't blame a guy for dreaming. Sounds kind of like sour
BS's mood will be black after the y gets thrashed by Wazzou to open the
season. Keep dreaming there BS, but I'm afraid your coach is going to get
schooled by another alum.
@Just Wondering..."it just means that is was convenient for
Michigan's scheduling needs"--------Unlike
Notre Dame, Notre Dame of the West (aka BYU) has 6 open slots in 2013, 7 in
2014, and 8 in 2015, wouldn't BYU be "more convenient" for MI
scheduling needs?If we do land the MI game lets hope we play MI @RES
in 2013 since our Pac-12 road games in 2013 are: @Arizona, @Oregon, @Stanford,
@USC. NOT even a SEC team plays that kind of road schedule.
@ Black Shirts"Nothing brings me more joy. I hope the Utes keep
getting teams like UM, because Utah is no UM".and BYU is no
Notre Dame! "You need to beat Colorado before you hope to beat
UM". You need to beat Utah before you hope to join a big boy
conference and play the likes of Michigan home and home, like Utah has done. Oh
by the way, Utah beat Michigan in the Big House in 2008 on our way to a perfect
season. "Ute fans actually think they are somebody. Not yet, win
a Rose bowl first. Dont say BCS, your schedule was too easy to be respected
outside SLC".So we need to win 3 BCS bowls now to become
somebody? Utah is tied with Oregon for second in the Pac-12 with BCS bowl
victories. USC is in first! If our schedule was so weak in 04' and 08'
to be respected, what does that say about 1984 BYU's schedule? Utah is
somebody because they were invited to join a big boy conference, in other words
they were wanted! BYU feels entitled to everything in college football, but
really are nothing more than mid-major nobodys.
Dr. Chris Hill needs to give Holmoe a few tips on how to get 1for1's from
elite programs. I guess an HD truck, billions of fans and a national brand
known if ever corner of the galaxy just doesn't stack up to.......PAC12 memberTwo time BCS winner
Amid all of the self congradulaitons for this maybe series with mich, no elmer
utah hasn't "play the likes of Michigan home and home, like Utah has
done", I'd like to know when those games occured, I see no utah
"fans" want to mention Athlon's 4-5 conference and 7-5 overall
prediction for the ute's.Now I don't put any more stock in
Athlon's predictions than I do anyone elses but it is interesting how
little respect utah is getting from them. Especially when you consider utah
still doesn't have to play Oregon or Stanford yet still can't seem to
convince anyone they are any more than a sub .500 pac team.
Open with a win at the Big House, and close the season with a SUGAR BOWL vicory
against one loss Alabama. Along the way knock off final BCS top 25 teams TCU,
BYU and Oregon State. BYU doesn't have a season even remotely close to
that. Not to mention Utah's 2004-5 season. It was like a Fiesta!Time to play the lottery...........hmmm.............I like number 5-4-1-0
@hedgeI don't recall mentioning bYu in my post? I'm still
waiting to have someone point out the long list of illustrious NON conference
teams that have agreed to come and play in RES? If Michigan comes through, then
great, they will be the first, but I doubt they will be the "first of
Ah, what would an article on Utah be without the comments of
"duckhunter"? Rather than be obsessed with when Utah will play Oregon
and Stanford (Don't panic. It will happen starting 2013), I think you
should be more concerned about byu's trying to fill up a meaningful
schedule, especially in November.Any comment, "duckhunter"?
"Any comment, "duckhunter"?"Trolls like ducky and
the others are really struggggling right about now. We've heard that the
Utes could never get an elite 1for1 to come to the RES....and boom goes the
dynamite.What drives the trolls crazy is the knowledge that without
doubt Holmoe tried to get this game at LES. Michigan had the option of chosing
bYu but instead selected the Utes....kinda like the PAC12.When oh
when will the cougars catch a break.
There should be something coming, Michigan or not, seeing as the Big10-Pac12
intend to make an annual matchup between the two conferences for each of the 12
teams in both of them.
Duckhunter lamented that he "sees no utah "fans" want to mention
Athlon's 4-5 conference and 7-5 overall prediction for the
ute's."Its just a prediction -- bulletin board material
that the Utes can use for motivation. But even if that prediction came true, I
take great satisfaction in knowing that the Utes are doing better in the PAC 12
than BYU would have done. Clearly, the PAC 12 chose the right team.
Duckhunter,Every Utah article torments you to the point that you
have to comment on it.... even if the best argument you can muster is Athlon
prediction smack. Give it up and face the fact that Utah will be adding a Big
10 element to their PAC 12 schedule.... it's no more complicated than that.
@goredWhat comment do you want? That even if this home and home with
michiigan happens that it somehow means something? What does it mean? The fact
is utah still doesn't have to play the two best teams in the pac12 this
year and the prognosticators are still only thinking they'll win 4 pac
games. What happens when they actually have to play the good teams?Scheduling a team like michigan is nice, BYU should know since we've seen
Texas, Penn St, Notre Dame, Miami, USC, Florida St, and many others come through
LES, but I hardly see why it is some kind of in your face to BYU or its fans
considering BYU has had plenty of those types of teams come to town for a long
time. Congrats I guess, you guys might have gotten one? I wouldn't
celebrate to much until the ink is dry since these things have a way of not
happening sometimes but if it comes about it will be a nice game for the fans
right up until utah more than likely loses and they all go home disappointed.
The Y really is getting some nice opponents lined. Some nice 2 for 1s. Huh...
Mid Major much?
@duckyNow to respond to your last comment.1: Since when
was Stanford predicted to be one of the two best teams in the 2012 season?
You're one year off. Luck has graduated, moved on. National sports
writers, including Ted Miller of ESPN, has the top 3 teams in the PAC 12 in this
order: USC, Oregon, and Utah.2: You say "What happens when they
have to play good teams? So, you don't consider USC, a preseason top 3
team, to be "good". What about with Washington? But, by your own
admission, other teams such as byu are not considered a "good team"?
Humorous.3: I've looked at byu's schedule this year, and I
don't see any Texas, Penn State, Notre Dame, Miami, or USC. Stay relevant
with your argument. For that matter, Utah can boast the same, having played
USC, Alabama, Michigan, Pitt, Oregon, etc. in the past.4:
You're always ending with a "prediction" for a Utah loss. How did
that work out for you with the Utah-Alabama game? Or the Utah-Georgia Tech bowl
game last year? Or last year's Utah-byu game?Your
DuckhunterYour starting to sound like one of these other cougar
fans. The fact that 10-15 years ago the y could get those bigs teams to come
in. It's all over for you now, there is no reason for a top 25 program
come in to Provo and possibly loose to the y. This is where your independence
kills you, pay days are not that big a deal to those big programs. You guys are
pay to play from now on, Idaho will always take that $250 grand where a school
like Michigan doesn't really need it. The main reason why the U will start
getting days like this with Michigan is that we are in the PAC-12 and in an
ellite conference, with ellite schools that matter. You had your ride and it
was brilliant but as of now it's over.
Since 2002, Michigan has played an OOC game in exactly TWO opposing stadiums;
Oregon and Notre Dame.Add Utah to that list. Utah goes
legit home/home with Michigan, BYU gets Georgia Tech. Just the direction these
programs are headed.
@DuckyBe patient Utah is the only PAC-12 team playing with mid-major
talent. It takes time to build PAC-12 depth. For example, we just
had our best recruiting class, top 30. Last year we had a D2 QB go 6-3 now that
QB is 4th string. Chill-out and enjoy Utah play some real football on the
PAC-12 Network.Go UTES!!
Let's relive the past for a moment can we? Utah holds the overall wins
vs.losses. From 1979 to 2000 or so, BYU simply had the better program. BYU was
able to bring in big teams to Provo on a consistent basis because they were good
and had a big stadium. Everything good about BYU happened in the past. 1984,
string of great qb's, Heisman, Outland. It all happened in that period of
of 22 years. Outside of the time, BYU has been pathetic to OK. Their program
currently is simply OK. Those big teams are not coming to Provo as often and
usually it is a 2 for 1 as Utah and 80% of the programs had to do. Utah no
longer has to put up with a 2 for 1. It's has to do with being in the big
conference. One program continues to rise and the other is currently
stagnant. It will continue until BYU is in a big conference. Until then, take
Uteology"Utah is the only PAC-12 team playing with mid-major
talent."And not much is going to change.The Utes
have had two full recruiting classes since they were invited to join the PAC 12
two years ago, but after all of the chest-beating about being one of the big
boys, reality is starting to settle in on the hill; the Utes are still going to
lose most of the recruiting battles to their PAC 12 opponents.Predictions for 2012NorthOre 8-1, 11-2Stan 6-3, 8-4Wash 6-3, 8-4Cal 5-4, 7-5WSU 3-6, 6-6OSU 2-7, 3-9SouthUSC 9-0, 13-0Utah 4-5, 7-5UCLA 4-5, 6-6Ariz 4-5,
6-6ASU 3-6, 5-7Col 0-9, 3-9Utah blew its only decent
chance to win the PAC 12 South last season, and now, as most
non-crimson-glasses-wearing fans predicted, Utah is settling into its
middle-of-the-PAC role.Just imagine, though, the season-long buildup
to that exciting "rivalry" game in November -- Utah 6-5 at Colorado 3-8.
When that shiny PAC 12 newness loses its shine, will Utah fans remain excited
about a perennial conference bottom dweller?How long can the Utes
finish 7-6, 4-5 in conference, before RES starts to look like the HC, a vast sea
of empty red chairs.It happened in basketball; it can easily happen
B C, kitten fans like you can always dream. Too bad for you and your dreams of
your band of questers turns in to a nightmare where your team isn't wanted
by any of the big boy conferences (Big Least doesn't count). Keep striving
though against the dregs of the WAC while the BCS schools (i.e. Utah) lay a
beating on your over matched mid major team (i.e. 54-10 until Whit called them
off could have been 70 plus to 10). The truth is a wonderful thing.
KamUteWhat you conveniently left out of your little diatribe is that
BYU accomplished FAR MORE in 12 short years, from 1979 to 1991, than Utah has
accomplished in its entire football history.U still haven't had
a single national individual award winner.BYU even managed to
produce a national individual award winner during a rather "quiet"
decade for BYU; something Utah was unable to do in its best decade ever.BYU's 2000's "decline" still produced more Top 25
Finishes than Utah.And, during the Bronco/Kyle era,Bronco has FIVE Top 25 FinishesKyle only THREEBronco has
THREE Top 15 FinishesKyle only ONEBronco has TWO conference
championshipsKyle only ONEBronco is 66-24 with ZERO losses to
10-loss teamsKyle is 65-25 with TWO losses to 10-loss teamsThe
declining-BYU, rising-Utah myth, is just that, a myth with no factual basis,
simply the wishful thinking of the kids on the hill.
"I take great satisfaction in knowing that the Utes are doing better in the
PAC 12 than BYU would have done."U guys are pretty desperate
these days for any kind of 'satisfaction'. Amazing that you feel so
good about 4-5 and losing to Colorado. Nothing wrong with optimism but
let's face the truth, you have one stellar program, gymnastics. Football,
an occassional break out year and it won't be this year, or the next.I take great satisfaction in knowing that BYU is doing much better than
the prognosticators said they would. Having a Top 25 football program, an NCAA
Tourney appearance, a Rugby NC, Volleyball, Soccer, Track and so forth...
ain't too shabby for a real sports program.Enjoy mediocrity as
pebblesBeing invited to be a punching bag for the big boys of the
PAC 12 to pad their conference records doesn't prove anything.Regardless of your status as an Independent or your membership in a
"power" conference, the mark of excellence is, and always will be, final
national rankings.How many Top 25 rankings do you think your mighty
weak Utes are going to pile up with 4-5 losing conference records?The truth is Utah was simply lucky to enjoy one of those
everything-went-right-for-Utah and everything-went-wrong-for-BYU games.BYU finishing the season 8-1, with its only loss on the road to TCU, and
ranked in the Top 25andUtah finishing the season 6-4,
with losses to Washington(7-6), Arizona State(6-7), California(7-6), and
Colorado(3-10), and UNRANKEDis proof that BYU was much better than
10-54and Utah was even close to as good as 54-10.BYU
fans would have welcomed a November rematch, especially after seeing the
pathetic team the Utes put on the field against their new "rival".
@ DuckhunterCouple of comments and this isn't about red vs.
blue.First if you look at the Athlon projects at 4-5 in conference but 7-5
overall that means they are projected to win all three out of conference games.
Second, your later posts uses the word prognosticators. The 's'
on the end indicates plural and yet there is no other prediction for a 4-5
finish. This is one source and even you question their accuracy.
CO Ute"if you look at the Athlon projects at 4-5 in conference
but 7-5 overall that means they are projected to win all three out of conference
games"Your arguement reveals more about you than you realize.Bottom line, it once again proves that, despite their claims of BYU
irrelevancy, Utah fans are far more focused on beating BYU, than they are with
having a winning conference record.
@duckhunter (AKA sammy, bluto, and now B C and Uteanymous)First
off, why bother with all the different pseudonyms? It is very apparent that you
are all one and the same. The bottom line is, you are on an article about the
Utes. Your attempt at trash talk is lame and ineffective. The Utes have moved
on to a prestigious conference, something your team can only dream about doing.
And the only thing that has any relevance to you is head-to-head competition.
It stands thus: Utah 3 out of the last 4 over BYU.
Utah 7 out of the last 10 over BYU. Utah 55-34-4
all-time over BYU. And most recently, Utah 54 BYU 10.Take a look at your own short end of the rivalry before trying to dish
@ Black Shirts 12:59 p.m. June 13, 2012Did you not pay attention to
the lead photo accompanying the article?
@ B C 5:45 p.m. June 14, 2012"It happened in basketball; it can
easily happen in football. It happened in basketball; it can easily happen in
football."I recall the BYU hoops program was in the dumps a few
seasons prior to Jimmer.Takeaway, the Lavell era and then look at
the head-to-head in pigskin before trying to be clever... and not succeeding
goredHate to burst your bubble but Ducky and I are two different
guys. Though I take it as compliment to be confused with Duck, I'm just the
little guy. I have my moments but Duck is here for your tormented pleasure.I'd suggest you get with Naval Vet, motorbike, hedgehog and pebbles
and hone those deductive reasoning skills a little by playing some Clue. Your
conspiracy theory is a little off.Glad you shared it though. If it
bugs you enough to post then its validation that 'we're winning'.
LOLColonel Mustard in the Conservatory with a CandlestickBy the way how does if feel to lose to BYU in overall athletic competition?
Though many of you would dismiss the Deseret Duel, it obviously is showing an
alarming downward trend in overall quality athletics in Uteville. It
sure is easy to throw every Ute athlete under the bus if they do not play
football. (and maybe gymnastics?)Maybe I am wrong... but I seriously
doubt. I predicted mediocrity for the Utes last year... I think I'm
sticking with it this year.If Michigan comes they will annihilate
the Utes. I'll enjoy the game.
sammyg exclaimed "I take great satisfaction in knowing that BYU is doing
much better than the prognosticators said they would."Excellent.
I'll mark you down as one of the fans that is excited about independence.
There should be more like you!Those that yearn for conference
affiliation make fun of Utah and their first year challenges while secretly
realizing that would have been BYU's fate too. Those that wonder how BYU
would do in the Big 12 know that they'd fare no better than TCU this year.
Those that wonder if BYU was right to reject the Big East will keep an eye on
Boise State (if they actually join). True, those schools each broke the BCS
barrier twice, but BYU was somewhat close, so its a good comparison.Independence is definitely the route for BYU. They can craft a season against
a handful of BCS schools (but not too many!!), deliver 10-2 or 9-3 seasons, and
hopefully end up in the AP top 25 at the end of each year (the poll not
associated with the BCS). Glad that you're on board.
goredYes, the Utes have moved on to being a punching bag for a
prestigious conference - average finish across the board in all Utah men's
sports, 2nd to LAST; 8th in the conference and unranked in football, as
usual.Whatever made U think the Utes would be competitive, let alone
championship contenders, in the PAC 12, when the Utes have only won 6 conference
championships in the last 60 years?Your perfect storm seasons of
2004 and 2008 are history, and the Utes are now back to losing to conference
bottom-dwellers like NM, CSU, Wyo, and UNLV, only now it'll be Colorado,
WSU, Arizona and OSU.------------wall-eTake
away the entire LaVell era, and the Cougars still have more national individual
award winners and just as many Top 25 Finishes (both polls), as the Utes have in
their entire history."I recall the BYU hoops program was in the
dumps a few seasons prior to Jimmer"I'm not sure what you
"recall", but BYU's basketball program has had exactly ONE losing
season, THIS CENTURY, versus eleven 20-win seasons and nine NCAA tournaments.
@gored"3: I've looked at byu's schedule this year, and
I don't see any Texas, Penn State, Notre Dame, Miami, or USC. Stay relevant
with your argument. For that matter, Utah can boast the same, having played USC,
Alabama, Michigan, Pitt, Oregon, etc. in the past."None of those
schools has ever set foot in res, I'm talking about home games. You knew
that, you were just trying to distort it to make a non point. Plenty of bad
teams have played those teams just like u have, on the road, at their place. All
of the teams I mentioned have played at LES, I know, I went to those games.
Gonna go see GT, Texas and ND over the next few years as well since they'll
all be at LES. I'm sure there will be others as well as the schedules get
SoonerUteUtah's first year struggles were against the weakest
division of any major conference. Utah played 5 of 9 games at home,
got a free pass on the two best teams in the conference, didn't beat a
single PAC 12 team with a winning record, yet, with USC ineligible and a
gift-wrapped division there for the taking, U couldn't beat one of the
worst teams in the country, at home, to win the division. BYU
wouldn't have lost to lowly 10-loss Colorado, yet wunderkind Whit has
managed to lose to 10-loss teams twice in his brief 7-year stint as Utah's
HC.Don't forget, your QB struggles were self-inflicted; caused
by K-Whit coverting all of his QB recruits to other positions and leaving his QB
phoenixGilbert, AZBYU wouldn't have lost to lowly 10-loss
Colorado"-------------Yet you lost by 44 points on
your own field to the team that lost to Colorado.THAT's bad
son. Forget Big XII. You people should be hoping for a Sun Belt invite.Boom.
hedgy"We've heard that the Utes could never get an elite
1for1 to come to the RES"Nothing had changed - the ONLY reason
teams like USC and Michigan would even consider coming to RES is because the PAC
12 / Big Ten are arranging it for U. Michigan is simply picking from a list of
teams mandated by the Big Ten.Elite teams like Miami, Florida State,
Texas, Penn State, Notre Dame, and USC have been visiting LES for decades and
every single game was arranged by BYU independent of any conference help.Call us when Utah schedules its first elite team to come to RES without
any help from your conference.BYU = independent and relevantUtah = dependent and irrelevant
phoenix claims "BYU wouldn't have lost to lowly 10-loss
Colorado"I understand your answer because your perspective is
"after scrimmaging San Jose State, Idaho, and Idaho State, BYU would be well
rested for their game with Colorado."But the scenario was
"how would BYU have done in the PAC 12". Utah and BYU were fresh out of
the MWC where there is a sharp drop off between the starters and backups.
Quarterback was the notable injury for Utah, but there were others -- just as
BYU would have suffered injuries too.You consider the PAC12 a weak
major conference, but the players are still bigger, stronger, faster than what
the MWC has. You may doubt that because "Um, this one time we beat... "
Sure. You beat a team one time, but not after playing 8 teams just like them.
It takes a toll. It makes a difference. 4-5 is a good guess for how BYU would
RockwellWHAT!!!!The reason that these other teams are
considering coming to Utah is that we are in an elite conference that plays
elite teams. The y has had it's day and I will say it again a very
impressive one but until you guys get into a conference with big, fast, stronger
players you will not understand the difference. It is so much fun to watch, and
I could care less what you cougar fans think there is a great big difference in
playing Colorado and playing Idaho. BYU would have lost to Colorado, no
question. Until you play and see the better players you will never know, never.
@UteanymousNoting is going to change? Really? Again in Season II
we now have PAC-12 depth at QB and RB, something we lacked last year (see Ted
Miller comment below). In Season II, Utah's 6 toughest games we
should be favorites to win 4: @USU, @ASU, CAL, @UCLA. In the other two games,
USC and @WU, we'll be the underdogs but I still think we'll be able to
compete in those games.Is #3 a "middle-of-the-PAC role"?
Again like someone already pointed out Ted Miller of ESPN has his own
predictions and he has Utah at #3 in the PAC-12:1. USC2.
Oregon3. UtahThe Utes welcome back 18 starters, though
replacing both offensive tackles will be a huge task this spring. The defense
has a chance to be beastly. The key? Utah proved it can win eight games with
poor-to-middling quarterback play. But does a healthy Jordan Wynn -- back to
late 2009, early 2010 form -- mean 10 wins? Go UTES!!
@RockwellCall us when Utah schedules its first elite team to come to
RES without any help from your conference.---------Utah
had Texas @RES "scheduled" for 2008 but Urban Meyer canceled the
home-and-home series. Correct me if I am wrong but BYU has 2-for-1 with Texas.
SoonerUte"You consider the PAC12 a weak major
conference..."NO!We consider the 2011 PAC 12 South
to be the weakest division of any major conference, and BYU would have handled
Colorado at home, just as easily as they handled Oregon State on the road. BYU has been playing these supposedly bigger, faster, more athletic PAC
12 teams for years, and here are some recent examples of how BYU has handled
those opponents:BYU 59 UCLA 0BYU 38 Oregon 8BYU 44 OSU
20BYU 38 OSU 28BYU 23 Wash 17Utah was simply a
7-turnover plagued anomaly; one of those games where everything went right for
Utah.BYU would have beaten Washington, ASU, and Colorado at home,
something U couldn't do, as well as UCLA, Arizona, WSU, and OSU. BYU would
have had a decent chance of beating Cal, with losses to Utah and probably USC,
to finish, at worst, 6-3 in conference.Bottom line:Bronco wins conference games and seldom loses to bad teams.Kyle is
capable of losing to anybody, especially conference opponents.
Riddles in the DarkWe consider the 2011 PAC 12 South to be the
weakest division of any major conference, and BYU would have handled Colorado at
home, just as easily as they handled Oregon State on the road. ----------1. 2011 winning percentages show that the "weakest
division of any major conference" was the ACC Atlantic. Thanks for
playing.2. You mean like how you handled 2-10 Ole Miss 14-13? The
OSU game was 21-24 in the 4th, you did NOT "easily" handle OSU.
OK BYU people. Your team lost to Utah by 44 points! 44 points, 7+ touchdowns!
No excuses, no ifs, ands, buts... the scoreboard still says 54-10, that's
it - the bottom line. When you lose to a team by 44 points you lose all ability
to talk smack with them or their fans. Go talk about your history,
your awards, your relavency to Southwest New Mexico State Tech or whatever
school your team beat by 7+ touchdowns sometime last November. If they start
talking back at you about how amazing they are compared to you just a few months
after you thrashed them, then you will see how rediculous you sound to Utah fans
(and probably to a lot of your own fans).
Ok Ducky. I'll bite this time. "For that matter, Utah can
boast the same, having played USC, Alabama, Michigan, Pitt, Oregon, etc. in the
past.""None of those schools has ever set foot in res,
I'm talking about home games." I know you read every
article about Utah, because you comment on them all. So did you did you forget
tht Oregon came to RES in 2003? Did you forget that Pitt came to Utah in 2010?
Or are you being deceitful? Come on now son.
Ducky-"Gonna go see GT, Texas and ND." Those are some
pretty sweet TWO FOR ONES you got there mid major.Rockwell-
"Michigan is simply picking from a list of teams mandated by the Big
Ten." That deal doesn't start until 2017. They aren't mandated
to play the U before that. Nice try.
UteologyIn case you missed the memo, Ole Miss is in the SEC.Besides that early season meltdown against the #39 Utes (Sagarin
Rating), the only games #35 BYU lost were at #17 Texas and at #20 TCU.#38 Cal, #41 ASU, #44 Wash, #64 Ariz, #66 UCLA, #83 WSU, #87 OSU, and #107
Colo, were all ranked BELOW the #35 Tulsa team BYU beat in the Armed Forces
Bowl.And let’s not forget, Riley Nelson led the Cougars to
that dramatic win over the Aggies and became BYU’s starting QB two games
after the Utah debacle.Yes, BYU finishing 6-3 in conference and
winning the PAC 12 South with Utah’s schedule is a very reasonable
prediction.Even Utah, with the way Utah was playing in November,
would have been a very likely win for BYU, assuming BYU and Utah played during
PAC 12 rivalry week.
Uteology"weakest division of any major conference was the ACC
Atlantic"Factor out ineligible USC and recalculate:PAC 12 South#39 Utah(8-5)#41 ASU(6-7)#64 Ariz(4-8)#66
UCLA(6-8)#107 Colo(3-10)Average ranking #63, Of the 5
eligible PAC 12 South teams, ONLY Utah finished with a winning recordACC Atlantic#23 Florida St(9-4)#32 Clemson(10-4)#37 NC
State(8-5)#73 Wake Forest(6-7)#90 Boston Col(4-8)#104
Maryland(2-10)Average ranking #60,Half the teams in the ACC
Atlantic were ranked HIGHER than Utah, and four of the six finished with winning
recordsOh, and one other small detailClemson #22/#22Florida St #23/#23in the final AP/Coaches PollsThanks
Snack PAC-"BYU finishing 6-3 in conference and winning the PAC
12 South with Utah’s schedule is a very reasonable prediction." That
is an extremely reasonable prediction. If you're wearing blue goggles.
Just remember your cougars played New Mexico State sagarin 133, Idaho sagarin
141, AND Idaho State sagarin 205! Those are like scrimmages. Those are easier
than BYEs. Happy day in Provo! SInging primary songs and watching the mighty
cougars beat up on the sweet sisters of the poor. Let the chest thumping begin.
@ Juggy,You are spot on Guy:The article discusses Utah
probably scheuling Michigan in the near future. What a great match up. However,
it seems that some have gotten off on a tangent, and for whatever the reason,
brougt BYU into the discussion. You can spin it any way you want. Bring up
obscure stats and facts. But the bottom line is that Utah absolutely waxed BYU,
on their home field, the last time they played. 54-10 is the statistic that
matters most, everthing else is just drivel, Thank You for playing;........Check
Magna"Just remember your Cougars played New Mexico State sagarin
133, Idaho sagarin 141, AND Idaho State sagarin 205!"Sorry, but
there's absolutely ZERO correlation between who BYU played and who BYU
could have beaten if they had played.Nobody said that BYU beating NM
St, Idaho, and Idaho St proved that BYU could have won the PAC 12 South, but BYU
beating a bowl opponent that was ranked higher than 8 of Utah's 9 PAC 12
opponents, does show that BYU winning the PAC 12 South is not an unreasonable
@Snack: Factor out ineligible USC and recalculate:---------Umm, what??? If you factor out USC then shouldn't you be
factoring out the loses in the division? For example, Utah went 8-5
with USC lose factored in. Now if you factor USC out then Utah goes 8-4. Same
for the other teams in the division. Also, Sagarin did NOT factor out the USC
loses in its rankings only you did to make a bogus claim.You
welcome!BYU would have gone 3-6 at best playing Utah's PAC-12
schedule, and here's why:The current talent at BYU, over the
last 2 years, is 4-8 vs. teams with winning records:Utah State (7-6)
27-24, Tulsa (8-5) 24-21, Washington (7-6) 23-17, San Diego State (9-4) 24-21Your 5 best wins have an average margin of 4.5 points at HOME.
Uteology"BYU would have gone 3-6 at best playing Utah's
PAC-12 schedule, and here's why:The current talent at BYU, over
the last 2 years, is 4-8 vs. teams with winning records:"Your
myopic analysis is hillarious.Utah didn't beat a single PAC 12
team with a winning record and the Utes LOST to TWO PAC 12 teams with LOSING
records.Simply beating all of the PAC 12 teams with LOSING records
that Utah played would have given BYU SIX wins. Even with LOSSES
(not loses) to Utah, California and USC, BYU still would have finished 6-3,
easily winning the PAC 12 South, even with that September meltdown against the
"Nothing had changed - the ONLY reason teams like USC and Michigan would
even consider coming to RES is because the PAC 12 / Big Ten are arranging it for
U. Michigan is simply picking from a list of teams mandated by the Big Ten."
Rockwellhmmmm, the PAC12/Big10 agrement doesn't start until
2017...four years LATER than when this game of the 1for1 begins.The
real question is Y not the Y? As we know holmoe is strrruuugling to capture an
elite 1for1. Y do you think Michigan pushed aside the holmoe to get to Dr.
Booooooom! Great news for Utah's flagship university. The U is the real
deal........glad I went to that great school.
Just like USC, Michigan will be another guaranteed loss for the Utes. Can't wait to see Utah trying to beat USC, Oregon, Stanford, AND
Michigan, along with Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and UCLA, all in the same
season.The Utes are biting off far more than they can chew and 4-8
seasons are going to become common-place on the hill.At least
they'll be a well-paid punching bag.Fortunately, Utah will
still have a perennial Top 25 team to represent the state - BYU, THE University
Anti BCS - you don't see the forest for the trees! Other posters(Ducky
included) talk about how little Athlon thinks about the Utes projecting them at
4-5 in conference. The point of my post is that Athlon must think even less
about the Utes non conference opponents because they have Utah winning all three
games to finish at 7-5. If the prediction shows that Utah is not very good,
what does that say about the teams they are projected to beat?
@snack PAC - Really? You compare two conference divisions but randomly factor
out USC because they were on probation. Sorry but it doesn't work that
way. Probation means they can't go to bowl games and aren't ranked in
some polls but you don't arbitrarily factor them out to do a comparison
unless you are trying to distort the real picture. Add USC into the comparison
and the PAC 12 South becomes stronger the the ACC Atlantic but to use your quote
"thanks for playing'.
"Can't wait to see Utah trying to beat USC, Oregon, Stanford, AND
Michigan, along with Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and UCLA, all in the same
season." Y's little brotherAnd you ask Y Dr. Chris Hill
wants to kick the cougars to the curb?
@mlhGood grief. We all watch tv buddy, every week we watch college
football. We've all seen plenty of pac10, big 12, acc, and other teams play
weak after weak and year after year. Of course we've all seen BYU play
these teams pretty much every season for decades as well. Just because utah has
played one season in the weakest part of the pac12 you haven't all suddenly
gained some super understanding and insight into the quality of players the rest
of us don't have.That might have been the most condesending,
while alternately clueless, comment in the history of these boards.LOL!
@uteologyOk I will "correct" you because you are
"wrong".BYU previously had a one and done scheduled with
Texas. They then later sceduled a 1 for 1 with Texas that is seperated from the
1 and done by 2 years.So by your logic utah previously had a 1 and
done with michigan. Now that they MIGHT have scheduled a 1 for 1 with them after
a multi season break we can all consider it a 2 for 1 in michigans favor since
they will have played 3 games, 2 in michigan and 1 in utah, over multiple
seasons. See how that sort of tortured "logic" works? Only
from a utah "fan" would we get that.LOL!
CO Ute"you don't arbitrarily factor them [USC] out to do a
comparison unless you are trying to distort the real picture"Nothing arbitrary about it; you can factor USC out of the picture, because the
Trojans were ineligible, and therefore, not a team that Utah had to finish ahead
of in order to win the division.The only teams Utah had to finish
ahead to win the PAC 12 South were four LOSING teams#66 UCLA (5-4,
6-8)#41 ASU (4-5, 6-7)#107 Colo (2-7, 3-10)#64 Ariz (2-7,
4-8)and U lost to two of them, both AT HOME, including lowly 10-loss
Colorado.As far as the competition that Utah had to beat to win the
division goes, the PAC 12 South was by far the weakest division of any major
Sorry hedgehog you can't have it both ways.Either BYU is a
pushover, an easy win, in which case, Utah has absolutely no reason for not
continuing to schedule BYU.Or BYU is just as formidable as all but
the top two or three teams in the PAC 12, and therefore, too much for the Utes
to handle, despite all of the arrogant chest-beating of the kids on the hill.
Y's little brother..this is silly... The only way to truly compare byu to
utah is by head to head match ups In the last decade Utah has beat BYU 7 out of
10 games and humiliated them to no end their last meeting... So you come up with
all this other crazy stuff that means nothing to anyone but you... But the stats
don't lie 7 out of 10 - last 10 years & & BYU
loss in 2011 54 - 10 Go ahead and twist things however you want.
Sorry Jenny,The only way to truly compare BYU to Utah is overall
accomplishments during each season over the last decade.NOBODY
believes that Colorado was better than Utah last season, simply because Colorado
won the head-to-head matchup.NOBODY believes that UNLV was better
than Utah in 2007, simply because UNLV destroyed Utah head-to-head 0-27.and,only crimson-colored-glasses-wearing fans and BYU haters
belief that 8-5, unranked Utah with losses to TWO teams with losing records and
a near loss to 4-8 WSU was better than 10-3, 25th and 26th ranked BYU simply
because the Cougars had an early season meltdown against the Utes.One game does not a season make; seasons are judged on overall performance.Final Top 25 Rankings this centuryBYU 6Utah 5Final Top 25 Rankings during the Bronco/Kyle eraBronco 5Kyle 3Final Top 15 Rankings during the Bronco/Kyle eraBronco 3Kyle
1You can twist things however you like, but the final rankings are
the final word.No crazy stuff, just FACTS.
"Or BYU is just as formidable as all but the top two or three teams in the
PAC 12, and therefore, too much for the Utes to handle, despite all of the
arrogant chest-beating of the kids on the hill" little brotherI
beleive most Ute fans view the Y games as a no win situation. The polls
don't look favorable to losing to a non BCS team....and beating a non BCS
is expected.Another factor is currently the Utes are the biggest
game on the Y's schedule....it's you're bowl game.Why
should utah waste emotion on this game? Why risk injury from planned cheap
shots? Again, a no win situation.
CO Ute says "The point of my post is that Athlon must think even less about
the Utes non conference opponents ".That's reflected in
Athlon's pre-season rankings where the "terrible" Utes are ranked
33rd and the Cougars are ranked 39th.Athlon's marketing gimmick
is their magazine with a custom cover. Look! There's a cover with Utah
Ute John White! Let's see what the Cougar fans can buy. Oh. They can
only buy the generic "Oregon/USC/Notre Dame" cover.
@UteanymousAgain, I said Utah had lack of PAC-12 (BCS talent) for
the weekly grind of BCS football. I don't expect you to understand this
concept but this is the same point ESPN noted for Season I, do some research.
In September not only did BYU get dragged to the woodshed by Utah
but you struggled at HOME against:9/23 vs. Central Florida (5-7) W
24-179/30 vs. Utah State (7-6) W 27-2410/8 vs. San Jose State (5-7)
W29-16That's NOT BCS talent, yet you struggled? FYI Utah had
no problem beating mid-major BYU and D2 MS... actually MS put up more of a
fight. We struggled in PAC-12 play, you struggled against WAC and CUSA teams...
MAJOR difference.FYI ASU was playing great ball when they beat Utah,
even beat #5 USC 43-22, in September so I seriously doubt BYU would have beat
ASU since you clearly struggled against mid-major teams. So I would say 3-6
sounds about right 4-5 if you got lucky.Again, this is all
hypothetical. What isn't hypothetical is that fact that BYU went 2-3 vs.
BCS quality teams (including TCU).
hedgy"The polls don't look favorable to losing to a non BCS
team....and beating a non BCS is expected."Your BCS snobbery is
laughable - the polls couldn't care less whether a team is Independent or
in a power conference, the ONLY thing that matters is whether they're a
good team or not.Independent BYU - RANKEDPower Conference Utah
- UNRANKEDis proof of that.Of course your justification
for dropping BYU from the schedule falls completely apart when you're
looking to replace BYU with Northern Colorado - that's certainly going to
impress the pollsters.---------------------SoonerUtePre-season polls are a dime a dozen; the only polls that matter are the
final polls.It's hillarious that Utah fans get all pumped up
about pre-season polls that rank Utah higher, but totally dismiss final polls
that rank BYU higher.
"Of course your justification for dropping BYU from the schedule falls
completely apart when you're looking to replace BYU with Northern Colorado
- that's certainly going to impress the pollsters" SportsfanLet me try to explain this another way. the bYu game is exactly NOT the type
of game Utah needs on their schedule. There are only 3 positive OC games that
make sense1) A sure win ( hey, I giving the Y some credit here. A
rivalry game is never a sure thing.2) An elite team (i.e Michigan). A win
will create national buzz, a close lose would still be viewed as a positive in
regards to media and recruiting. 3) A team from TX or CA. Again, all in
the name of recruiting.Currently, bYu holds no value to Utah.
Infact, it only holds negatives.1)A non BCS team with a huge chip on
their shoulder. having lost 54-10 and 7 of the last 102) A team that will
view this game as their national championship game3) Little to no
recognition by the polls/media by beating bYu
@SportsFanIn conclusion, what you are saying is that...A) BYU cannot beat Utah on the field (7 of last 10, including 3 spankings) B) BYU can beat Utah in the polls by beating enough Bo Diddly Techs (BYU
has 2 wins over final ranked teams since 1996 and a losing record vs BCS teams)
hedgeyFor a team with a huge chip on their shoulder that thinks of
this game as their national championship and provides little to no recognition
in the polls...see mirrrorHow many times has BYU lost to
Utah, yet still finished in the Top 25?converselyHow
many time has Utah lost to BYU, yet still managed to finish in the Top 25? BYU doesn't need a win over Utah to have a great season.Utah fans desperately cling to their 2011 win over BYU as the ONLY highlight
of their first year in a big boy conference.Pathetic!
UteologyThe 7-of-the-last-10 is an aberration; 3 of Utah's 7
wins came during the Crowton era.Bronco is 3-4 versus Kyle and has
held the lead or been tied with Kyle for most of the past 7 years.The biggest difference between Bronco and Kyle, is Bronco doesn't LOSE to
Bo Diddly Techs like CSU, Wyo, NM, UNLV, and Colorad, while Kyle loses to them
regularly.Who you don't lose to is just as important as who you
beat. BYU figured that out decades ago. Someday, maybe, Utah will
figure that out.
@uteologyI see you have no response to utah's 1 for 2 with
SportsFan lectured "Pre-season polls are a dime a dozen; the only polls that
matter are the final polls."I very much agree with you
SportsFan, but this Athlon thingy seemed quite important to a Cougar fan named
@DuckhunterOn what planet do you spend most of your time? My bad, I was wrong on the BYU-Texas series, it seems they did schedule a
home-home series. I didn't know the 2011 game was one-for.However, my original post was to Rockwell who asked:"Call us
when Utah schedules its first elite team to come to RES without any help from
your conference." And I said that that it was done already,
Utah had scheduled Texas home-home series in 2008 that was canceled.@antiBCSKyle lost to UNLV (2-10) in 2007 and then lost to Colorado
in 2011 (3-9). That's what BYU fans define regularly?Bronco of
the same period lost to Utah State (4-8) 2009.The difference...Kyle accomplished Broncos Quest by beating more than just Bo Diddly
Techs.Kyle has a better winning percentage vs BCS teamsA) 7 of
10 is a trend. B) 2 smack downs of Bronco's team in 4 years
suggests a trend. C) NFL not drafting Bronco's talent also
seems like a trend... you can only get so far with Walk-ons!
Ernest T --- It is never a fluke if your football team loses by 44 -- and
especially when you get beat that bad at home!
@sooneruteNot "important", just comical.@uteology"It was cancelled". Why? Perhaps Texas expects a
little more in revenue when it goes on the road?
UteologyYour use of selective time periods is laughable.The ONLY applicable "trends" are the overall accomplishments of the
current head coaches.Bronco/Kyle Era (2005 to present)Bronco is UNDEFEATED against conference bottom-dwellers NM, CSU, Wyo, and
NMKyle lost to all of them at least once and to NM TWICE, and he's
continued the "trend" in the PAC 12, losing to Colorado and barely
beating WSUBronco has NEVER lost to a 10-loss teamKyle has
lost to TWO of them (as many as BYU has lost to in BYU's ENTIRE history)Bronco has only lost to THREE teams that didn't finish with winning
recordsKyle has lost to SEVEN teams that didn't finish with winning
recordsWhich explains why Bronco has had more success overall than
KyleTop 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3Top 15
FinishesBronco 3Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Head-to-HeadBronco 3Kyle 4But
here's the year by year2005 - Kyle (1-0)2006 - Bronco (1-1)2007 - Bronco (2-1)2008 - Kyle (2-2)2009 - Bronco (3-2)2010
- Kyle (3-3)2011 - Kyle (4-3)
JennyThe Utah win in September may not have been a fluke, but BYU
committing SEVEN turnovers to basically give the game away was definitely a
fluke.And, any objective fan who watched the two teams as the season
progressed knows that the #39 Utah(8-5) team that lost at home to #41 ASU(6-7)
14-35, to #44 Washington(7-6) 14-31, and to #107 Colorado(3-10) 14-17, in a game
that Utah was totally dominated in the first half, and barely beat #83 WSU(4-8)
30-27 in overtime, that Utah team would have been lucky to beat the #34
BYU(10-3) team that only lost at #20 TCU(11-2) 28-38 and beat #35 Tulsa(8-5)
24-21 in the Armed Forces Bowl. BYU led 10-7 with 7 minutes left in
the first half, with Utah's only score coming on Jake Heaps clueless fumble
into his own end zone on a play that started on BYU's 18-yard line. Utah
only lead 14-10 at the half.Total YardsBYU 354Utah
481First DownsBYU 20Utah 20TurnoversBYU 7Utah 2
Uteology"Utah had scheduled Texas home-home series in 2008 that
was canceled."BYU had scheduled home-and-home with Alabama, but
Alabama cancelled their return visit to Provo after BYU nearly beat the Crimson
Tide in Tuscaloosa in 1998.The point is, Utah has never played an
elite team in RES, and without help from the PAC 12, that likely never would
have changed.This century, BYU has already played USC, Notre Dame
and Florida State in LES, and, as an Independent, BYU already has home games
scheduled against Texas and Notre Dame.
Jenny83Utah's "dominating offense" was held scoreless
until the final minute of the 1st half when Utah scored to take a narrow 14-10
lead at halftime.BYU's fumble at their own goal line resulting
in back-to-back quick early scores in the 2nd half, changed the momentum of what
had been a very close game.It was BYU's 7 turnovers, most of
them unforced, that was the difference in the game, not the disparity of talent.
Any objective fan who watched the BYU-Utah game in September and the
Utah-Colorado game in November knows that the BYU-Utah game could have turned
out very differently if it had been played in late November.
@ TrueBlue"The Utah win in September may not have been a fluke,
but BYU committing SEVEN turnovers to basically give the game away was
definitely a fluke".Turnovers are part of football! You Y fans
need to quit using it as an excuse. Better teams cause and capitalize on
turnovers and Utah did just that. There is no fluke in that game, but there was
a complete domination by the Utes.Utah is better than BYU in 2011
and 54-10 is proof of it!
@TrueAgain, while you make excuses for losing at HOME by 44 points
the fact still remains:Utah Defense 14BYU 10@SportsFanThat wasn't the original point, it was about
"scheduled" not "played". You just changed it to another
hypothetical subject. Utah "played" Oregon in 2003 and
"beat" them. Or do you guys don't want to consider
Oregon elite? Just like you guys don't want to...A) Include
Crowten era in your losses to Utah even though 2 of your wins came with Crowten
playersB) Exclude USC from your "weak division" claims even
though the South division still had to play the AP #6 team in the nationHere let me change it to another hypothetical subject:BYU
has never played in an elite conference without the help from ESPN they likely
never will. Go UTES!
@TheSportsAuthorityYes I agree that if and only if...A)
Wynn was out injured ALL gameB) White was also out injured for the 2nd
halfC) Peterson would need to miss 3 FGS (42, 26, and 48 yards)Then and ONLY then would BYU have any chance for another "miracle win"
over Utah in November. Unfortunately for BYU "magic" doesn't
happen every year.Here's how the two talents performed that
day...Associated Press:PROVO, Utah -- John White scored
three touchdowns, Jordan Wynn passed for two scores and Utah forced seven BYU
turnovers to cruise to a 54-10 victory...Utah trailed 10-7 late in
the second quarter until Wynn beat a blitz and found tight end Jake Murphy open
for a 30-yard touchdown pass. Wynn tossed a 59-yard scoring pass to Dres
Anderson on the opening possession of the second half, and the Utes never looked
back.White scored on runs of 1, 62 and 35 yards.The
game's scoring started and ended with touchdowns by Utah's
defense...BYU's run game was non-existent as the Cougars
carried 22 times for just 11 yards.
The Sports authority........ all i can say is byu fans are full of soooo many
EXCUSES..It's always the refs fault or someone ele's So what you are
saying is that byu got spanked but it really wans't their fault?
To all delusional BYU fans ~~~~~~~~~~ Hello I'm EARTH, have we met!?
It's interesting how Utah fans whine about excuses for ONE game, while Utah
fans are soooooo full of excuses for their ENTIRE SEASON.After the
Utah game, BYU went 8-1 and finished the season ranked #25/#26 in the final
polls.After the BYU game, Utah went 6-4 and finishe the season
UNRANKED, not receiving a single vote in either poll. U didn't
beat a single PAC 12 team with a winning record and U LOST to two teams with
losing records, both at home. So much for "elite" competition.Bottom-line: BYU finished the season as the better team.
I think most Utah fans were fine how the entire season went, after all we did it
with a d-2 quaterback and we did beat a decent Georgia Tech team in our bowl
game - I'm just glad we waxed the cougers! 54-10 = Now
that's what you call a beat down
earth to jenny"I think most Utah fans were fine how the entire
season went, after all we did it with a d-2 quaterback"Sounds
suspiciously like excuse-making.btw, I think most BYU fans are with
finishing in the Top 25 with a 2nd string QB and beating a much better team than
Georgia Tech in their bowl game.
I think most BYU fans would agree that they would have much rather won their
game against the Utes than getting totally humiliated on their home turf.
BYu played mostly WAC teams the last half of the season....and the worst team in
the big sky.....and your beating your chests because you won 10 games.....so
would of most any other teams with a schedule like that....
Utah played 6 teams with LOSING records, including one of the worst teams in the
country...and U lost to two of them...any decent team would have easily won 10
games with Utah's schedule...You're just jealous that the
Utes can't even beat their chests about not losing to any bad teams.
PhoenixThe playing teams with a losing record argument is a poor one
because those losses came to other PAC-12 teams. A team might have a losing
record in the PAC but that same team would probably be a contender in the WAC or
Sun Belt. Look to strength of schedule rankings if you want a barometer for the
overall quality of teams played in a season.
Two for FlinchingLook to the Coaches Poll and AP if you want a
barometer for the overall quality of your team.jenny6th
to 8th place in your conference and this makes you happy or is it the pictures
twoferYour SOS argument is meaningless when you consider how awful
#107 Colorado(3-10) was and how lousy ASU was playing the last half of the
season - and you lost to both of them, AT HOME.I look to the
individual team rankings and EVERY single Utah opponent after mid-September was
ranked below BYU and below Tulsa, the team that BYU beat in the Armed Forces
"Look to the Coaches Poll and AP if you want a barometer for the overall
quality of your team."Sammy gOle Miss didn't win a
SEC game last year and fired their coach. They finished the season ranked 76
in the nation.Ole Miss was head and shoulders the worst SEC to run
onto the fieled last year.And Yet the only lost to bYu by one point.
on a freak play.The question to be asked is if bYu played the Ole
Miss Schedule would they still win 10 games? would they even win 3 games?
hedgyYour analysis is like a blind man touching an elephant's
tail and forming his opinion of elephants based on one elephant's tail.Objective fans evaluate seasons based on the entire season, not on one
or two games.A week after Ole Miss, BYU played at #17 Texas(8-5),
and only lost 16-17. In late October, BYU played at #20 TCU(11-2), and only lost
28-38. And in their bowl game, #34 BYU beat #35 Tulsa(8-5) 24-21.All
three of BYU's losses were to Top 40 teams.Four of Utah's
five losses were to teams not even ranked in the Top 40.btw, Texas
beat California 21-10. Utah lost to California 10-34. Based on BYU's narrow
1-point loss to Texas, BYU would have easily handled the Bears, a team that
dominated the Utes. Bottom-line:As confirmed by the
polls, overall, BYU was a better team than Utah in 2011.BYU
hedgehogBased on beating #34 BYU, Utah would have won 10 or 11 games
playing BYU's schedule.Based on losing to #107 Colorado, Utah
would have lost 8 or 9 games playing BYU's schedule.That's
the problem with using individual games to judge or predict an entire season.
Teams change and different conditions apply week to week.BYU was a
much better team by the end of the season than they were when they played
Utah.Utah was a much worse team by the end of the season than they
were when they played BYU.Despite the jealous spin from our friends
on the hill, those changes had little to do with improved or weaker competition.
Sports"Fan" and TruelyBlue hilariously attempt to contort facts in a
failed effort to claim the y is the better program over the past decade
("flukes" and "Quests" notwithstanding). Here are the real
facts:Since January 2002:Utah: 8-1 bowl record
[BYU: 5-2]Utah: 2 undefeated seasons (incl. ‘05 Fiesta and
‘09 Sugar Bowl victories) [BYU: 0]Utah: 2 final Top 5
rankings [BYU: 0]Utah: 2008 AFCA Coach of the Year award
[BYU: 0]Utah: the 2005 No. 1 NFL draft pick [BYU: 0]Utah: 1 consensus All-American (at two positions): Louie Sakoda
[BYU: 0]Utah: Overall record 92-33 [BYU 80-45]Head-to-Head: Utah 7 (avg. margin of victory 16.7 pts) [BYU 3 (avg.
margin of victory 4 pts.)]Spin it however they want with their Idaho
State/USC assisted top 26 ranking last year, Utah is clearly the premier program
of the two over the last 10 seasons.
JohnInSLCThere's no question that Utah had two great seasons
and its best decade ever in the 2000's, but the overall results don't
lie:Top 25 FinishesBYU 5Utah 4National
Individual Award WinnersBYU 1 (Luke Staley - Doak Walker Award for
Nation's Best Runningback)Utah 0 (Louie Sakoda was a great player,
but he didn't win a single national award)Head-to-head5-5Conference ChampionshipsBYU 4Utah 4Spin
it however helps you sleep at night, but a Top 25 finish is a Top 25 finishYou're just jealous that Bronco has almost as many Top 25 finishes
in 7 years as the Utes have in their entire history
Snack Pacusing your logic: Utah beat BYU by 44 at home, which means
Utah would have easily handled Texas and TCU. Which means Utah would have been
undefeated (again).The fact is rankings are very subjective and are
based on a small sample due to the fact that most teams only play 10-11 of the
120 FBS teams. This obviously creates flaws. Just because a team is ranked
higher does not necessarily mean they are better than every single team ranked
Sorry, the "Truth" part of the Machine is broken.Luke Staley
played 11 years ago, outside the past decade that Sports"Fan"
examined.5-5 head to head? Is that in women's soccer, or were
you hiding with ducky in Tulsa the last couple of years and just watched the
wrong BYUtv football replays?I'll admit, byu has more suspect
Top 25 rankings in history than Utah.
twoferSorry, but you need a course in "logic", because the
entire point of Snack PAC's post was you can't use "individual
games to judge or predict an entire season".The fact is a
national panel of poll voters is much more objective than the jealous kids on
the hill who only whine about the rankings when they favor BYU.Single head-to-head matchups aren't even the final determination of which
team is better, otherwise, how do you explain:Alabama 6LSU
9Alabama 21LSU 0We don't see it as much in
college football, because teams usually only play each other once, but in
basketball it happens all the time, where a team that lost by 20 points in the
first meeting, wins by 20 points in the second meeting.We've
even seen teams that lost twice, sometime soundly, to the same team during the
regular season, beat their opponent, sometimes soundly, in the third meeting.One game does not a season make, even though Utah fans want to pretend
that it does.
JohnInSLCThe past "decade" is 2000 to 2009, it isn't
some arbitrary 10-year period.Granted, Utah was the premier program
in the state from 2003 to 2008, but your program is fading, and during the
current coaching era (Bronco and Kyle), BYU is back on track and Utah's
best years are behind them.Top 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle
3Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference
Championship SeasonsBronco 2Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Overall RecordBronco 66-24Kyle
65-25Head-to-headBronco 3Kyle 4but,
let's not forget, Bronco held a 3-2 advantage just two years ago, and
Bronco and Kyle were tied at 3 apiece just a year ago.Kyle does hold
a big advantage in one category, however.Losses to 10-loss teamsBronco ZEROKyle TWOKyle had a great year in 2008, but
overall, Bronco has out-performed Kyle.
LonestarOf course a panel of voters is more objective than a single
team's fanbase. The system is still very subjective and flawed.I also agree that one game doesn't make a season. However, it's
silly to pretend that a great season is defined by losing to every decent team
you while beating a bunch of mediocre to bad teams. The BYU fans here often
tout their #25/26 finish but at some level the accomplishment must ring hallow
based on the body of work.
"The past "decade" is 2000 to 2009, it isn't some arbitrary
10-year period."LoneStar:You are both wrong and all
over the road. First, the most-used definition of decade at the most
popular online dictionary is:"1. a period of ten years: the three
decades from 1776 to 1806."Second, unlike your rambling on about
'00 to '09, then '03 to '08, then Kyle-Bronco era, I stuck
to the last decade as described by Sports"Fan". Finally, in
your effort to look pump up Bronco over Kyle, did you compare victories over
ranked teams? I didn't think so. Kyle 5-4, Bronco 3-4. Now if
you're comparing empty slogan-eering Bronco wins, hands down!
JohnInSLCIn your effort to pump up Kyle over Bronco, did you compare
LOSSES to conference bottom-dwellers and 10-loss teams.Bronco is
undefeated against NM, CSU, Wyo, and UNLV.Kyle lost to all of
them.It's not just about who you beat, but also who you
don't lose to.Bronco has never lost to a 10-loss team.Kyle has lost to 10-loss teams TWICE, including just two games ago.BEING a Top 25 team is a greater accomplishment than beating a Top 25 team.One is a single game accomplishment.One is a season long
Sorry twofer, but only a jealous Utah fan would try to trivialize a Top 25
finish.BYU fans were very pleased with finishing in the Top 25 for
the 5th time in the last 6th years, especially after getting off to such a rocky
start.It is interesting, however, that Utah fans are trying so hard
to discredit BYU's Top 25 finish, when it was BYU's final Top 25
ranking that gave the Utes their ONLY notable win in 2011.
Look at all these bitter "Cougar fans." Oh the pain of the 54-10.Love it.
Snack WAC:"Objective fans evaluate seasons based on the entire
season, not on one or two games...As confirmed by the polls, overall, BYU was a
better team than Utah in 2011."Actually, objective fans
confirmed that Utah was the better team than the Indy-WACers in 2011 after that
54-10 live vivisection on your Home field. But here's what "Two for
Flinching" was getting at with SOS. Teams with a higher SOS would naturally
have a less glossy record than teams with lower rated SOS. According to Phil Steele, the Indy-WACers 2011 SOS was #102 [out of 120]. So
with the nation's 19th EASIEST schedule, the Y won 10-games [losing to the
good ones of course], and backed into the Top-25 poll tha USC was ineligible
for.By way of comparison, here are the Pac-12 SOS rankings: Ariz.
[#6], Colo. [#12], OSU [#13], UCLA [#14], Wash. [#21], USC [#22], Cal [#35], ASU
[#45], Utah [#48], and WSU [#58] ( w/ Pitt [#50] and Ga. Tech [#80] both rated
higher than the Y).Those were some pretty tough schedules. And
THAT's why most had more losses than 3. Get it now?
Truth Machine:"BYU was a much better team by the end of the
season than they were when they played Utah."No, by the end of
the season, the Indy-WACers were playing much easier teams than they faced in
Sept. With the exception of TCU....which of course, BEAT you.Had
you played against stronger competition, you wouldn't have won 10 games.
You struggled against USU, UCF, and OSU, and didn't exactly dominate SJSU.
So imagine how well you would have measured up amid the week-to-week grind of
Pac-12 [or Big 12] caliber opponents with their Pac-12/Big 12 caliber recruits
and deeper benches. Don't forget...you guys flopped in your final season
in the MWC. 7-6? And only because you packed your alumni into the Replay Booth
vs. SDSU. If you're 7-6 vs. MWC opposition, you really think you'd be
in the upper tier of the Pac-12 or Big 12? Please. You played your '11
season in the WAC, and THAT is how you got 10-wins. End of story.
Marked it Down:"It is interesting, however, that Utah fans are
trying so hard to discredit BYU's Top 25 finish, when it was BYU's
final Top 25 ranking that gave the Utes their ONLY notable win in 2011."That's because Utah fans aren't all that impressed by beating
some WAC-ish and mid-majorey team that schedules just barely weak enough to back
into one of the polls.Utah fans are more impressed by beating Ga.
Tech in the Sun Bowl. Beating an ACC team in the postseason > beating a WAC
team in early September.
I'll I can do is laugh at cougie fans. They blast up stats that favor the Y
yet leave off stats that favor the U. I have seen at least 50 posts in the last
month listing top 25 finishes, top 15 finishes but fail to list top 5 finishes
in bronco/kyle era. So let me ask those of you that have posted this several
times now why do you not go all the way down to top 5 finishes?Several times also listed by cougie fans that bronco has not lost to a 10 loss
team kyle has. So what? How many 10 win teams has Kyle beat and how many as
Bronco beat? Exactly why no cougie fan lists that information on their list of
stats. IMO in the Kyle vs. Bronco debate Kyle having two undefeated
seasons and two BCS bowl wins. Is alot more then anything you can say about
Bronco. Along with having more top 5 finishes and a better head to head
record....but hey bronco does have more top 25 finishes and no losses to a 10
loss team. IMO however Kyle has definitley done more for his team.
122 comments on a Utah story and at least half of them from cougars frantically
trying to prove their not swirling the bowl of mediocrity and irrelevancy. Good times...... thanks for theentertainmentt leading up to the Sept
thrashing. Just one request, please don't quit this time, it will be fun to
watch you all make that walk of shame out of RES together instead of filtering
out through the 3rd and 4th qtrs.
navel vetlol at your SOS comparisonsUsing your logic,
Kansas, with the #1 SOS, should have been the national champions.Unfortunately for U, seasons aren't judged by who played the toughest
schedule, but by who had the best overall results.As hard as it is
for jealous Utah fans like you and 2B to accept, BYU finished
#25/#26 in the final national polls, while the "mighty" Utes
didn't receive a single vote in either poll.Stop whining and
just accept it;BYU finished the season as the better team.
@uteologyNo oregon is not "elite". They need to get it done
for a lot longer than they have to achieve that distinction. That said they do
appear to be on their way, we'll see if they can get there.But
of course oregon was FAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR from "elite" in 2003. They had
barely started to put together a respectable program at that point after having
long been a complete dog. Scheduling a home and home with them at that point was
no more an accomplishment thatn scehduling one with arizona, washington st, or
oregon st. is now. It was a nice game but nothing "elite" about it.
@NV"Utah fans are more impressed by beating Ga. Tech in the Sun
Bowl."Sure they are.Afterall,beating
UNRANKED #56 Georgia Tech(8-5) by a FG in overtimeis "much more
impressive" thanbeating 25th ranked BYU(10-3) by 40 points in
regulation.It's hillarious how far Utah fans will go to distort
reality just to poke weak jabs at BYU.
@ Duckhunter"But of course oregon was FAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR from
"elite" in 2003. They had barely started to put together a respectable
program at that point after having long been a complete dog".Two
years before Oregon lost to Utah in 2003. Oregon went 11-1 and were Pac-10
champions in 2001. They went on to beat Colorado in the Fiesta Bowl. Oregon got
snubbed for a National Championship berth for Nebraska that year. Two years
later, Oregon was ranked #22 when they lost to Utah in Salt Lake City. Oregon
has been a solid program for years. Chip Kelly took them over the hump!
UteologyIt's ludicrous to even think of calling any program
"elite", unless it has won at least one CONCENSUS National Championship
(#1 in both the AP and Coaches Polls) and been a perennial Top 25 team for at
least a couple of decades.
Elmer"Oregon was ranked #22 when they lost to Utah in Salt Lake
City [in 2003]. Oregon has been a solid program for years. Chip Kelly took them
over the hump!And three years later, the Ducks were DESTROYED by BYU
38-8 in the Las Vegas Bowl!The Oregon team that Utah beat at home in
2003, finished the season 8-5.The Oregon team that BYU beat in the
2006 Las Vegas Bowl, finished the season 7-6.btw, Oregon State was
ranked #16 in both polls when BYU beat the Beavers 44-20 in the 2009 Las Vegas
@ Marked it downI don't understand what I would be jealous of.
Utah has clearly taken control of the rivalry and has moved on to greener
pastures. I think most would agree that being in the PAC-12 is a better option
than independence and the WCC. I think BYU deserves better and it's a shame
that the rest of athletics had to take a step down for football to make a mostly
lateral move.As for the top 25 finishes: I, personally, would be
dissatisfied if Utah's and BYU's seasons were reversed. If my team
finished ranked I would prefer it was due to the fact that they earned the
ranking on the field by beating solid teams and not benefiting from a soft
schedule. However, if you want to celebrate ten wins and a #25/26 finish with a
SOS in the high 90s, so be it. I guess we'll just have to chalk it up to
the fact that we have different standards for our respective teams.
@two for flinching"I, personally, would be dissatisfied if
Utah's and BYU's seasons were reversed. If my team finished ranked I
would prefer it was due to the fact that they earned the ranking on the field by
beating solid teams and not benefiting from a soft schedule."That is the current utah "fan" mantra. It is how you try to justify a
losing conference record. That claim by utah "fans" will not last. Once
a few of those losing conference seasons have set in we won't be hearing
that dubious claim any longer. The fact is we won't be hearing from any of
you any longer.
@elmo fudd"solid" is not "elite". Were they
"elite" a couple of years after that when BYU smoked them by 30 points
in a bowl game? Or were they only "elite" when they made that pity trip
to res? LOL!
DuckhunterI'm not trying to justify anything. Utah's
first season in the Pac-12 was "okay" but I expect Utah to raise the bar
and be a regular contender for the division title. Either way, it's been a
joy to watch Utah compete at the highest level CFB has to offer, especially
after watching the program grow through the 90's and new millennium.Further, that claim will last, as it has for the entire time I've
been a fan of the Utes. For example, 2009 was an un-fulfilling year in my book,
despite the fact that Utah finished ranked. Beating Pitt, ISU and AFA was
alright, but Utah missed a couple a huge opportunities that left a mark on the
Look at all these "Ute fans". Oh the pain of 17-14, and losing to
Colorado.You can still hear the moaning and groaning over the
loss."We lost to Colorado, oh the humiliation.""That was embarrassing.""We lost the South Division.""We lost the conference championship.""We lost the Rose
Bowl.""We blew it""We lost the parade""We lost Pasadena"And my favorite..."Does
this mean we're not going to Disneyland this year, dad?"LOL