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Comments about ‘300-plus LDS Church members march in Pride parade’

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Published: Sunday, June 3 2012 5:10 p.m. MDT

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very concerned
Sandy, UT

To: donn

Respectfully I disagree. I think the homosexual behavior is diametrically opposed to church teachnings. How can someone living a *lifestyle* so opposed to gospel teachings expect the church to condone and celebrate their behavior.

As far as getting into the celestial kingdom, only God is the judge.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

I understand some of the sympathy some members of churches have for gay family members. The issues surrounding the gospel and GLBT behavior can tear a family apart, and love for a family member may make it very difficult to decide what is appropriate in showing love to (and for) that person.

But it's one thing to love a person and another to endorse his/her behavior. To me, and I'm only speaking for myself, marching in the gay parade would be an inappriate way to support a gay family member. That's just my opinion. Trying not to judge.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

donn

@layton, UT

Yes, Same -sex couples, should have all the right to be temple worthy as well as the Celestial Kingdom

marriage Doctrinally impossible, research new and everlasting covenant

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Continued...

We choose our master, our moral center. We are consigned to consequences ONLY because of and according to our own choices. I am reminded of my sins just as much a good friend of mine who is gay, but I control who's doctrine's I subscribe to and how I feel about my choices. So does my friend.

In the end, the choice to live one way or another is up to us. Accept that you were 'born with attraction' all you want. It doesn't matter at all. What matters is what you believe and what you have chosen to do about it.

God and Satan sit at a table offering you a job. God says "My payment is love and happiness, but I require you to not give in to your impulses (which ALL of us have in some form or another) and do these certain things." Satan says "Ignore him. His job isn't even real. You have those feelings and you don't have a choice but to act on them. For working here, I will pay you with happiness. His job is hard, that can't be happy."

I will continue again...

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Continued...

If we choose to be employed by God, we get paid by him in the happiness he offered. It is hard and we will struggle, but the struggle is only because Satan will constantly try to get us to do his work instead of God's. Sometimes we fail and we fail big, even huge. But God's hand is still extended to us to continue that employment and receive the gifts of happiness He has promised us. That is a wonderful thing. It is forgiving and charitable to us. It literally defines the meaning of the word 'mercy'. For that extended hand, we should be grateful.

In the end though, whatever choices we make- we all know what is offered from both employers and when we receive payment we need only look to ourselves to see who made the choices that lead there.

Like the rest of us, I am reminded every day where I have employed myself at one time or another. But depression isn't the way God pays us. So if we are depressed because of our choices or struggles to make them- we need only look to God to obtain that happiness.

Continued...

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

To conclude,

Satan lies, telling us we're at the bottom of the totem pole and have no way up. What a terrible employer! Not only does he lie about what his method of payment is, he manages to lie about everything God is extending to us at the same time.

The truth has never changed. The table is still there and God and Satan are both still calling our names and offering us work. All of us at some point or another have chosen the wrong line of work, but as depressing and guilty as we feel- it is not God but Satan who has deceived us and we have just as much power to choose God's employment as we did when we chose Satan's. If we look at the top of a totem pole it can seem impossible, but one decision at a time- we can choose God's employment and be happy again.

Guilt isn't bad, but simply acknowledging our choices. I struggle to choose God's employment at length and with great force. But without feeling guilt I will never learn to overcome and rely on God for that payment of happiness.

Flying Finn
Murray, UT

donn writes: Yes, Same -sex couples, should have all the right to be temple worthy as well as the Celestial Kingdom

Are you aware of the requirements to get an LDS temple recommend?

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@very concerned;

You seem so sure that our lives are diametrically 'opposed' to the "gospel teachings". Are you sure? You really don't know that, nor do you know the mind of god. FYI, sexual orientation is not a "behavior" (but religion is).

@VoR;

Thanks for the sermon. Are you really, really sure that you're not the one listening to Satan? He's the one who wants to force everyone to live righteously and keep them from living their lives freely. He's also the one who promotes bigotry and discrmination; I very much doubt that god approves of that.

firstamendment
Lehi, UT

I love my gay family members, and am thankful for any love and compassion extended to anyone(including drug users, who also suffer high rates of depression). As I've studied these issues and worked with gays as a Therapist, I've learned that caution is crucial. I do not attend pride parades for several reasons (listed below). I've read about gay LDS congregations, and have noted that the LDS Church policy and leadership are already very compassionate and supportive of gay persons. These congregations and other support groups may be the best venue to show love for gays.

Reasons I personally don't attend pride parades:

1 They have traditionally been political parades, not support parades (if you've changed that I loudly support you). It feel it is crucial to distinguish between supporting homosexuality and supporting gays. We must also distinguish between supporting pregnant teens and supporting teen pregnancy; supporting polygamists and supporting polygamy; etc. My actions will affect your children for generations to come.
Continued- Hopefully the Deseret News will let me tell the truth about the agenda, the SL Tribune will not, and has blocked me from civil honest comments.

George
Bronx, NY

@firstamendment
"as a therapist/" what exactly would your license be because there is no mental health profession that supports your line of reasoning. Further, if you are attempting to cure homosexuality you are violating every mental health professions code of ethics and practicing outside your license (if you are a licensed professional).

Southern California
Redondo Beach, CA

And here we go -- chipping away a little at a time until we embrace it fully. Not me.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

to: RanchHand
I think my words are that *I think the homosexual behavior is diametrically opposed to church teachings.* I think that is well-enough documented (that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints disapproves of homosexual behavior) that there is no need to dispute it. I think perhaps less known is that the church says that thoughts about(or propensity toward) homosexuality is not the sin, but acting on them is.

People have their struggles, whether it be with homosexuality, adultery, pornography, etc. In other words, we sin differently. That is true.

I will disagree that homosexuality is not a behavior. It is a defining behavior. But I will agree that religion, in some ways, is also a behavior. This country and the Church was - and is - built on the premise that some behaviors are desirable and some aren't. I applaud those who are struggling successfully to avoid (or overcome) homosexuality. I too believe God loves ALL His children. But personally, I don't see the doctrine changing.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

Please let me qualify, whether your struggle against homosexuality is successful at the moment or not, I still admire you for the struggle. I support and encourage your continued struggle. The Lord loves you and will answer your prayers. Strength will be yours if you ask for it. There are great blessings for those who overcome their weaknesses (or the natural man).

To those who are not struggling, but who have succumbed hook, line, and sinker, and are actively promoting the homosexual lifestyle, I would say, yes, it depends on whether you believe in revelation as to whether you struggle or not. If there is no God, nor God's prophet, then anything goes, and relativism reigns. But if there is a God, and I know there is, and there is a prophet, and I know there is, then it is necessary to follow their teachings to enjoy the accompanying reward and avoid the negative consequences.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@very concerned;

Would you agree that freedom is a desirable behavior and discrimination is an undesirable behavior?

I really don't care what your church approves of or disapproves of; it really only applies to members who want to keep their memberships. Nobody else is obliged in any way to adhere to your church's rules. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

I also don't expect your church to change it's policy; and that is fine with me. I do expect them to butt out of other peoples lives and bedrooms - places where they have no business being in the first place.

You might be surprised to hear about our experiences with god. Our prayers. The answers we've gotten. You don't have all the answers, neither does your leadership. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin, don't do it.

Homosexuality isn't a trial; dealing with the intolerant and the self-righteous is though. Living a life of solitude, when that is not your choice is also a trial; an unnecessary one. Why don't you give it a shot for a few decades and see how you like it?

Skydawn
Detroit,, MI

When I first became a flight attendant 25 years ago I had never met anyone who was gay. I didn't even know what being gay meant. It was eye-opening to say the least. As the years went by I realized that gay people are just like me--a single person trying to make it in a married world or how about just trying to make it in the world. We all laugh, cry, excell and fail. Gay people aren't bad people. However, as a single person God holds me to the same standard that He holds a gay person. No matter what our minds may tell us we are to live morally clean lives. We are to practice self control in all areas of our lives and do our best to live as God would want us to live. I now have many gay friends but being a friend doesnt mean that I have to agree with everything my friends do and they do not have to agree with everything I do. We respect each other for our sameness as well as our differences. God loves us equally--He does not, however love sin from anyone.

Skydawn
Detroit,, MI

@Ranchhand.....it is not intolerant or self righteous to have a different opinion than someone else....that would also extend to voting on any subject. Sometimes people in the same household cancel each other out at the voting booth during election time--doing so doesn't mean they are intolerant or self righteous of the other family member. I have lived for several decades in that so called solitude you speak of. While it is not always fun or easy, it keeps me happy with a clear conscience. My conscience is my responsibility. If someone else choses to live differently and give up on self control or just have different beliefs then they are responsible for their own conscience. It is not a tragedy to be gay or to be single our whole life. What is a tragedy is to make covenants to God and then to willingly break them.....those who have not made the same covenants will not judged like someone who has.....But, eventually every knee will bow to the Savior one way or another. Before we bow, I imagine no matter who we are or what we have done we will be lovingly embraced.

O'really
Idaho Falls, ID

@ LDS Liberal...

You're pretty gutsy with this comparison. "The “Temple worthy Members” [Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes]" This judgemental attitude actually makes me feel sick.

O'really
Idaho Falls, ID

I approve of parents supporting and loving their children with same gender attraction. I approve of LDS members putting their arm around a person who is open about that attraction and embracing them with full friendship and love within the ward family and the Church. I think there is danger though in these LDS marchers being perceived as embracing the whole LGBT agenda which doesn't distinguish between the attraction and following through and acting on that attraction. They definitely support gay marriage, which the LDS Church is strictly against. While the support of these people is sweet, I believe the whole public march thing is an unneccessary, confusing display of loyalty.

LDS church leaders have discouraged those with same gender attraction from paying too much attention to that inclination. They have discouraged them from labeling themselves "Gay" of "Lesbian". So I think, unfortunately, these LDS members who marched are only encouraging and highlighting that focus on the personal struggle of these people and in a roundabout way, making it harder on their kids and friends to put that inclination in the background of their lives rather than the forefront.

Didn't Jesus say, "Go and sin no more."

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Ranchhand, the first of my comments was denied. In it I expressed that I was addressing my comment to "Really???". I'm not saying you have no place in the conversation, but that the point I was making would have been more clear.

I essentially argued this-

We feel guilt knowing that we've done something morally wrong. I feel guilty for my sins as do others. But I do not blame God or the Church for that feeling, but my choices and the man tempting me to make them. To blame people calling something a sin for making people feel guilty neglects the possibility that 1) they are a legitimate moral authority 2) that the question in fact is a sin and 3) that feeling guilt may not be a bad thing.

I wasn't preaching a sermon of 'this is right' as much argue the plausibility of the LDS Church not being wrong for calling something a sin. None of us are born with sin but perfect in Christ. The entire point was that we're consigned only because of the actions that we chose.

Your argument is a red herring. I haven't argued for discrimination.

firstamendment
Lehi, UT

I have gay family members, I love them very much, and I show my love far away from Pride Parades. I have researched homosexual issues thoroughly and have discovered that powerful people have been misinforming us about homosexual issues. Pride parades are not the best way to show love for gay persons.
3 reasons-
1 Check narth (including articles on gay marriage, causes of homosexuality, activists hiding information, the gay former APA President being threatened for telling the truth, etc) to see why I feel that those mainstreaming homosexuality and encouraging the breakup of families (including comment activists here, employed to "destroy" people of faith) have, in part, led my family away from the joys of heterosexuality.

2 They are offensive to certain religious groups- Google this article and read Jersey Girl comments (very important history supressed by activists/liberal media):

Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity
Supreme Court rejects appeal to stop offensive gay parade

3 They are traditionally not supportive of gay persons, but of a political agenda, you can show love to gay persons on a personal level, in religious congregations, at work, in support groups (Evergreen, narth, etc-which political pride activists try to shut down).

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