I'm not LDS or gay but as a teacher I have worked with Mormon teens who are
gay. I know it is very difficult for them, and more than one has told me that
suicide seemed the only option. I believe the actions of these 350 Latter-day
Saints to extend a loving hand toward the LGBT community will literally save
lives. Thank you so much for treating people in this community with
understanding and respect. I can't begin to tell you how much good this
will do in the world.
Beautiful people, every single one of them. Again, thank you!
Awesome to see those in the church who are concerned enough and open-minded
enough to show their love and support to those in this unique group within the
I attended the Utah Pride Celebration. It was a mixed crowd where I was viewing
the parade and witnessed an important event and statement. The LDS contingent
did buoy spirits and a large applause as they appeared. I quickly surveyed the
people watching and was impressed with very universal approval and acceptance.
These proud, stong LDS members are allies and the LGBT community welcomes them.
So many, so many of the LGBT community come from this culture and find this
display meaningful. Let the LDS community support continue to flurish. Thank you
for being there for us today.
This is an amazingly beautiful story. Let's work together to nurture this
spirit to continue to grow and spread. Thanks to all those who participated.
Yah! Everybody ought to be proud of themselves.
I think it was great...and lightening didn't strike once! We need to
continue to embrace differences and support each other. Some day everyone will
know someone that is gay. And it doesn't change them. They are still the
great friend, relative or co-worker.
I wasn't there but am glad that the 300 or so church members were brave
enough to participate. The Church does say to love everyone. I've never
met a more caring group of people. We just have the certain segment of society
who are part of such harsh statements and feelings. It's one thing to
believe in heterosexual behaviors but another thing to totally dislike a group
of people so much. You'd be surprised at how many you know who are those
you dislike so much. And I'm a very active Mormon as well....
I am Lds and would be proud to call these marchers friends and ward members.
Jesus said love everyone.
So does this mean that I will be treated better at restaurants and businesses in
downtown SLC? Or does my individuality and pride not merit approval?On a theoretical level, I wholly support gay rights (including marriage). But
when my family and I are mistreated because we are obviously LDS or overhear
incredibly rude comments about our religion I do have to pause and reassess my
position. Tolerance begets tolerance!
Just recently, another poster on the DN site accused me of thinking gay people
were "icky" simply because I am LDS. I'm so glad the people in this
article showed those present (and I hope he was among them) that his assumption
has absolutely no merit. Love, empathy and support for our brothers and sisters
doesn't require us to agree on everything - not even on major issues. We
just need to see each other as family!
How encouraging can it possibly be to see "members" being socially
responsible and doing the right thing.I fear the backlash that any of them
might receive for their participation but applaud their efforts and expressions
of love and support to those that deserve it.
Re: CVgal Smithfield, UT"You'd be surprised at how many you know
who are those you dislike so much."It is one thing to accept
people as children of God, and it is another thing altogether to accept their
behavior. Jesus taught that we should love all people but He never suggested
that we should embrace immoral behavior.Frequently those with a same
sex attraction assume that just because we disagree with their behavior we must
therefore dislike them. Your own statement proves that idea wrong.
Thank you, Mormons Building Bridges.
If we heterosexuals organize a march to proclaim our "pride" in
heterosexual unions and lifestyle, will the gays and their supporters support
and march with us?
Observenator, let's not pretend that the "persecution" you
experience as a mormon in UTAH is anything close to that of a gay person's
experience living here. That's laughable at best.
I would definitely support "heterosexual pride" if there were such a
thing organized. All people's love is beautiful!
It's great to see so many different people coming together for a common
cause--to show pride in life and love! Congratulations to the active LDS folks
who had the courage to show their support for their families and friends!
There is so much need for healing and reconciliation between the Mormon and gay
subcultures in America, both of which represent a small percentage of the
population and have been historically persecuted. It's especially
meaningful that this gesture of love from Latter-day Saints would take place
right in downtown Salt Lake City.
ObservenatorSalt Lake City, UTSo does this mean that I will be
treated better at restaurants and businesses in downtown SLC? Or does my
individuality and pride not merit approval? But when my family and I are
mistreated because we are obviously LDS or overhear incredibly rude comments
about our religion I do have to pause and reassess my position. To
Observenator, please share how it is so "obvious" you are LDS when you
enter restaurants and businesses in downtown SLC? Do you walk around with the
BOM glued to your hip? Or are you walking around with a chip on your shoulder
and looking for reasons to be offended? I don't spend a lot of time on SLC
because I try to do business in my own community, but when I do go to SLD
I've never felt mistreated or had anyone be rude to me. You might want to
re-read the talk about how its oud choice to take offense that was given in GC a
couple of years ago -- it was a very good talk and obviously there was a reason
for giving that message to the entire church membership.
@meemaabThank you for so wonderfully illustrating my point.
Perceived prejudice against LGBT individuals does not make irresponsible,
intolerant and insensitive comments and behavior by members of that community
against others right. After all, does the LGBT community really want to pursue
an "eye for an eye" approach?You may scoff at the idea of
being mistreated as a Mormon in downtown SLC, but I am certainly not alone in
this sentiment. Plus, isn't the express purpose of these marches to
overcome indifference or hostility of individuals' right to exist and live
as they choose? I guess in your world that's true for everyone
The crowd was destroying their throats and people were wiping tears on both
sides. Watching a Sunday's best clad LDS man hug a crying lady of the LGBT
community across the way from me was an incredible moment. I grew up LDS and
havnt been active in years but seeing all those beautifully brave Mormons
reminded me of just how truly strong and kind LDS members can be. I will never
make the silly mistake of Typecasting the LDS community ever again.
To BCA - you are making a big mistake when you assume the Church leadership
would not express support...no, they would not endorse the behavior but in turn
would not belittle an individual who chooses to be Gay.
@ Observenator,So does this mean that I will be treated better at restaurants
and businesses in downtown SLC? Or does my individuality and pride not merit
approval? Tolerance begets tolerance!Right on, right on , The next step
should be for the LDS church to open the priesthood to females(Bishops).
I can't help but think of seeing a group from the Mid-West in the Days of
'47 parade, holding signs reading:"Missourians
Building Bridges."If there were ever a people who should be able
to sympathize and understand intolerance because of who we are, it should be
us.I'm to have missed this [I hadn't heard of it
before].I will be participating in next year's event.
Curious as to when the "gay" community will rally during General
Conference to support the LDS Church and its members right to religious freedom
and show love and support for their LDS family members and friends. Love and
support and "building bridges" is a two-way street.
This made national headlines and yet KSL didn't even mention it in their 10
o'clok newscast. Hmmmm.
It says a lot that it is "news" when LDS members actually live the ideas
they talk about every week in Church.Hopefully, times are a
@Rifleman, I appreciate your comments, but please think about how it feels to be
constantly reminded of your "sin." Even if a homosexual is abstaining
from sexual relationships, they are often grouped into a category of
"sinner" because of who they are. I am sure it would get rather tiring
and depressing to be reminded of that all the time.@MAYHEM MIKE, I
would dare say the Days of '47 Parade is exactly one of those parades that
you are talking about. Do you think, perhaps, that a homosexual group would be
allowed to participate in that one? I am sure there would be a group like
Affirmation that would be willing to give it a shot.
I am encouraged by the LDS participation but how many Catholics, Jews,
Methodists, Presbyterian, Unitarians, etc... marched. Why count one religion
and no others.
As a mother of a adult lesbian daughter, I was so happy to see this display
showing the world all Mormons aren't homophobic and those who really follow
Christ's teaching know he loves all of his children.
I'm so glad to see this. AS an LDS person, I do not hate those who are
homosexual. It is not church doctrine to hate anyone (different political
viewpoints does not equal hate). I hope that as a community we can do more to
show our love for our fellow men.
JMHProvo, UTI am encouraged by the LDS participation but how many
Catholics, Jews, Methodists, Presbyterian, Unitarians, etc... marched. Why count
one religion and no others.----------------There were
many churches that marched this year and in years pass. This is the FIRST time
that Mormons marched and showed their love.
Proud of my fellow LDS and a neighbor who participated yesterday. Truly touched
by some of the reactions to their love and support.In spite of all
the hate-bigotry labels thrown around so carelessly, I feel very certain that
what happened yesterday was a pretty true indication of the feelings of a great
majority of Utahns-LDS and non-LDS. In all my years in the church and in
countless leadership meetings over the years, I have never heard a disparaging
word (and certainly never a feeling or word of hatred) against LGBT from an
active member of the church. Only love and compassion. If there is hatred, I
feel that much of it is imaginary. Personally tired of being called a
hater-when there is none.Sure, we (LDS) support marriage only
between "man and woman" but still want to insure that all have the same
rights of civil unions et al. It's all only semantics at the end of the
day. What does it matter-whether legally married or in a loving civil union-if
all have the same exact rights. We are all Children of the same
God. And He loves us all equally!
Re: Really??? Kearns, UT"@Rifleman, I appreciate your comments, but
please think about how it feels to be constantly reminded of your "sin."
"When Jesus saw the money changers in the Temple he made a whip,
drove the "sinners" out and overturned their tables. Being a perfect
man did Jesus hate these sinners or did he just disapprove of their behavior?I suspect that God finds it "rather tiring and depressing to have to
remind His children to repent.
@Alpine Blue"Sure, we (LDS) support marriage only between "man and
woman" but still want to insure that all have the same rights of civil
unions et al."If that were true then why did the state
overwhelmingly vote to ban civil unions when it banned same-sex marriage? Why
does the legislature oppose housing and job anti-discrimination measures? "In all my years in the church and in countless leadership meetings
over the years, I have never heard a disparaging word (and certainly never a
feeling or word of hatred) against LGBT from an active member of the church.
"I've heard a ton of it, even in more liberal areas like
college student wards and my old home ward in Maryland. Even had an Institute
instructor rail against homosexuality and say that if we didn't write
letters to our senators urging them to pass the marriage amendment we'd be
doing satan's will.
@spacecowboy actually this has already happened a couple of times when
members of the gay community have shown up to offer support and encouragement
for conference goers when the westboro church has shown up to harass conference
goers. Maybe its time for you to get off the sidelines and be an active part of
Speaking as someone who has had my own share of challenges and struggles: Here's the problem: it's an important distinction between
loving someone who has a real challenge, and supporting and/or promoting it
(e.g., "pride").We should not "show our support" for
the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.We should show
our love for everyone, and we *support* those who are striving to overcome
life's challenges in their struggle to do so.Those who embrace
sin and deviance, we should love but not support them in their fall.Beware those who call evil good, and good evil.
re:Alpine BlueWell, as a life-long LDS member, having lived on both
coasts and in CA during Prop 8 I can attest to the fact that LDS bigotry against
homosexuals does exist. Just reading the comments on the Deseret News site can
illustrate that, but also comments, sometimes subtle, made by members when/if
the issue comes up. The Prop 8 campaign literature, ads etc. were negative, and
demonized homosexuals. I think bigotry has been the way of the world forever.
Wherever there is an out group it is easy to place blame, sow fear etc. It
happened with slavery, women's rights and is happening today with issues
such as same-sex marriage and immigration.
The ironic thing here is that Utah is known for its tolarance of gays. The LDS
people in Utah, while not approving of homosexual acts, have shown for decades
that they can accept a gay person. According to the Gay Travel website, Salt
Lake City ranks #5 in most friendly towards gays.So, since the LDS
people live what they believe and tolerance (while not accepting) the gay
lifestyle, why do we need a group to promote what the church already does and
@RiflemanSalt Lake City, UtahWhen Jesus saw the money changers
in the Temple he made a whip, drove the "sinners" out and overturned
their tables. Being a perfect man did Jesus hate these sinners or did he just
disapprove of their behavior?I suspect that God finds it "rather
tiring and depressing to have to remind His children to repent.•10:50 a.m. June 4, 2012============== The
“Money Changers” Jesus drove out were equivocal to today’s
WallStreet “Money Changers”.Jesus hung out with all those YOU
call “sinners”. They loved him because He loved them
first. BTW – The “Temple worthy Members”
[Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes] rejected him and his message. For no other
reason than He hung out with the “Liberals” of Society, those who
were shunned, considered sinners and low-lifes. Ironically, He
also forgave and accepted the sinners, and condemned the “Members”
as hypocrites.You are right about one thing, -- God is getting tired
reminding of his “members” to repeat. As I posted
earlier - We, of all people, should show empathy for those ill treated by
Good for them. What an unexpected turn of events.
Mayhem Mike:We already have "Pride" celebrations for
heterosexual unions: they are called wedding receptions.
@ atl134I do not disagree with you that there are exceptions to the
rule and that there are some LDS who may hate LGBT. But, as I have discussed
this with many many of my LDS friends around the US and some overseas, there is
very, very little hatred. Sure, there are those like your "friend" at
Penn State who are open in their bigotry-but he/they are a tiny minority. And I
can almost imagine that he had issues of his own-since most stone thrower seems
to be those who are the most likely to lash out at others. And, as I read your
responses, I wonder about what axes you may have to grind against the church.And you are totally wrong about the state of Utah who passed some of the
most comprehensive recognition of LGBT civil unions and civil rights under
former governor Jon Huntsman. And, the LDS church has gone on record of
supporting this far-reaching legislation.Again, while we do not
condone the homosexual lifestyle, we do not hate those who choose this
lifestyle, but reach out to them in love and compassion as brothers and sisters.
This group of Mormons marching in the parade made such a strong impact on us.
This is because so many gay people in our group of friends, who grew up LDS,
don't have support from their families or communities anymore. Watching you
and your children touched us. We could see our families in your faces, our old
ward members, our neighbors, our missed loved ones.Even though our
families are not there yet, we can see them in you and we have hope that they
will be with you one day.Thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Your
marching is a start to help bridge us and our Mormon families. We
connected so deeply with you because we connect with them.
@ TruthseekerSuppose it could have been different there in San Luis
Obispo where you live, but I just phoned my daughter in Irvine area and asked
her to pull out some of the old e-mails and correspondance.As she
read it all to me, I found no evidence of any hatred or demonization of the gay
community, only a very firm request to stand up for Prop 8 and the ideal of
standing up for the concept of marriage being between "One Man and One
Woman". Just encouraged to stand for the principle. If you saw something
much different I would be surprised. The Church (and most of its adherents) do
not act mean-spiritedly.Suppose you can call standing for the right
bigotry. But, it was certainly not mean-spirited or hateful or demonizing.
Whether married or in a civil union, LGBT have the same rights as my wife of 35
years plus and I.God loves each of us equally and is no respecter of
@Alpine Blue"And, as I read your responses, I wonder about what axes
you may have to grind against the church."Don't really have
any, the reason I was frustrated was because I spent years as a liberal in the
church being constantly told by members that I needed to repent for my political
views including my support for gay marriage and I felt like you were suggesting
things don't exist that do. Our disconnect between my "many" and
your "some" is most likely differences in definition of what hatred for
homosexuals is. For instance, I'd classify sending them to Evergreen
International to be hate (likewise I'd classify evangelicals sending their
kids considering the LDS to camps to "protect from cults" to be hatred
against mormons)."And you are totally wrong about the state of
Utah who passed some of the most comprehensive recognition of LGBT civil unions
and civil rights under former governor Jon Huntsman. "Utah
passed a constitutional ban on civil unions simultaneously with its ban on gay
marriage. Huntsman is a civil union supporter but he never really did anything
for gay rights in this state because it's politically impossible.
You people believe this was just a nice family gathering? Check out the
Facebook page of the parade. The Deseret News will not print those photos. No
news outlet will show those photos. Men dressed in top hats wearing only
Speedos. Signs stating that God has gay relations. And these people want to be
treated as "normal." This has nothing to do bigotry, and everything to
do with decency. Until those who want to viewed as "normal" separate
themselves from those who want their lifestyle choice "loud and proud,"
I and many others stand against this lifestyle (while all the day loving those
in need of repentance, myself included).
I appreciate the fact that members of the LDS Church had the courage to show
love and concern for people who really are being treated unfairly in many ways.
We are all sinners! No one has the right to judge condemnation on anyone.
Kindness, showing empathy, and relieving one another's burdens is the basic
tenets of Jesus Christ's gospel. Illustrative of this point is
Christ's interaction with the harlot. He obviously unconditionally loved
her and made those 'accusers' to feel shame for wanting her to be
punished. 'He who is without sin cast the first stone'. This has as
much meaning today as it did back then.But what He said after was
just as important. 'Go, and sin no more'. Did He say this to punish
her? No! He knew exactly what was best for her! This is what's being lost
in the current conversation. Sexual immorality is eroding our country's
very foundation. Out of wedlock heterosexual sex and the act of homosexual sex
is against God's law. Man cannot change or alter God's laws.
Unconditionally love the sinner, but abhor the sin should be the prevailing
Love people, but not the behavior. We'll still be responsible for our
@Alpine Blue"Sure, we (LDS) support marriage only between
"man and woman" but still want to insure that all have the same rights
of civil unions et al. It's all only semantics at the end of the day. What
does it matter-whether legally married or in a loving civil union-if all have
the same exact rights."What about gay LDS members would they
have the right to marry in the Church?
@Charles"Why would anyone feel the need to run around proclaiming that
they choose to engage in the behavior of homosexuality?"You
think this is about sex? It's not about sex, it's about love and the
fact that for this subset of people their attractions are to those of the same
gender. Seems like you're the one who can't separate individuals from
"homosexual behavior". I guess you're someone who'd see two
guys holding hands and think "they're doing it aren't they?".
If you see a couple and your immediate thought is that they're doing it,
you probably lost track of what actually is the foundation of relationships. I hear/read all the time that merely being gay isn't sinful. If
that were true then wouldn't homosexual relationships that remain chaste be
okay? Fact is an unmarried straight couple can hold hands in church services and
there'd be no judgment on them at all. But if two guys were to do that,
well that can't be allowed can it? It's not JUST about the sex now, is
While the support from a few hundred members of the LDS church makes me think
there is hope for the hundred, maybe thousands, of young men and women within
the church who are struggling with their sexual identity and their faith, many
of the comments on here make me sad. I hope many of you do not lose a child to
suicide because you just can't bring yourself to show unconditional love
"Why would anyone feel the need to run around proclaiming that they choose
to engage in the behavior of homosexuality?"I feel sorry for
you, because you obviously have never had the blessing of loving someone so much
that you wanted to shout it from the rooftops and let the whole world know how
much you love them. Straight or Gay, friends or enemies, I hope everyone has
the pleasure to experience such love.THAT is why someone would
"feel the need" to feel Pride in their relationships and their
You know, too many of you are acting like some of the southern preachers on TV
that we have seen in the past weeks -- and their homophobia. Haveing a
six-year-old boy sing a song as shown on TV today and the parish cheering. That
is sad! We are not condoning the actions of the people we know in the parade.
We are saying these people are children of God too, and they don't need to
be ostracized. Their life is hard enough (would you change places?), and many
of you have no idea what a day is like for them. I.e., if someone finds out,
will they lose their job? Will they lose their apartment? Will their family
love them or shun them? Will they be beat up? I don't like the
"parading" and I think they would promote their "cause" more if
they didn't get so outlandish sometimes. Just because you or I have an
opinion doesn't make us right or wrong. Just be understanding and do what
Christ would do. He wouldn't toss them under the bus......and neither
“Americans have no idea how FEW gay people there are” (see Garance
Franke-Ruta’s May 31, 2012, article in The Atlantic). When polled in
2002, a quarter of those polled guessed upwards of 25% of their fellow Americans
were homosexual. By 2011 that misperception had only grown, with more than a
third of those surveyed now guessing that more than 25% of Americans are gay.
Young adults were most likely to provide high estimates. Ask yourself whether
one-quarter of YOUR friends, family, work associates etc. are gay.The actual number of homosexuals is under 5%, with some stating the number is
closer to 2.8% of the total population. Now THAT percentage lines up much
more accurately with MY acquaintances. You?How is it that in one
decade, people can embrace such utterly wrong perceptions? If you said
“Media”, you get a star. And who, today, is MOST influenced by
media? Teens and young adults. Bigotry, hate, who thinks what
about whom, who’s saying what by their marching -- all of these things
pale in comparison to the misperceptions hammered into our kids by media.
Being gay or hetero has it's challenges. Both are charged with following
the guidance of the Prophets. Yes, it is God who will judge all so please
don't post here what God will and won't do. Just live your life with
your free agency and realize that decisions have consequences. It was noted
that one post said a gay person chose to be gay while others say we were borned
gay. We all have our weaknesses to overcome and work through. So I say to you
I hope you are honest with the person in the mirror and making the best
decisions you can make and living forward to a better day when we all we have a
better understanding of our human condition.
@Alpine Blue;You are incorrect. Utah does not recognize glbt Civil
Unions, nor anything that represents the privileges/protections of
"marriage". Check out Amendment 3. Sure, the LDS church endorsed
anti-discrimination in work/housing. They still ENDORSED discrimination in our
relationships.You are welcome to have a different opinion and be
against "homosexual lifestyle" (homosexuality is an orientation, btw,
not a "lifestyle", religion is a "lifestyle"). You have no
business telling others who they may or may not marry; even when you disapprove.
Your "firm request" to stand up for Prop-8, was a "firm
request" to support bigotry and discrimination. If you believe
that marriage is between one-man/one-woman, by all means, practice that belief
yourself. You don't get to define any marriages other than your own.@jasonlivy;It is NOT sin to live the way you were born. If
you, a heterosexual, were to have homosexual relations, it would be
"sin". For a homosexual to have heterosexual relations would be
"sin". It is NOT sexual immorality to live as we were born. @@Charles;You're the one who can't stop thinking about
Re: RanchHand Huntsville, UT"You have no business telling others who
they may or may not marry; even when you disapprove."Try getting
a marriage license to marry your sister in any of our 50 states or territories.
To: zoar63,What about gay LDS members would they have the right to marry in the
Church? Yes, Same -sex couples, should have all the right to be
temple worthy as well as the Celestial Kingdom
To: donnRespectfully I disagree. I think the homosexual behavior is
diametrically opposed to church teachnings. How can someone living a
*lifestyle* so opposed to gospel teachings expect the church to condone and
celebrate their behavior.As far as getting into the celestial
kingdom, only God is the judge.
I understand some of the sympathy some members of churches have for gay family
members. The issues surrounding the gospel and GLBT behavior can tear a family
apart, and love for a family member may make it very difficult to decide what is
appropriate in showing love to (and for) that person. But it's
one thing to love a person and another to endorse his/her behavior. To me, and
I'm only speaking for myself, marching in the gay parade would be an
inappriate way to support a gay family member. That's just my opinion.
Trying not to judge.
donn@layton, UT Yes, Same -sex couples, should have all
the right to be temple worthy as well as the Celestial Kingdom
marriage Doctrinally impossible, research new and everlasting covenant
Continued...We choose our master, our moral center. We are consigned
to consequences ONLY because of and according to our own choices. I am reminded
of my sins just as much a good friend of mine who is gay, but I control
who's doctrine's I subscribe to and how I feel about my choices. So
does my friend.In the end, the choice to live one way or another is
up to us. Accept that you were 'born with attraction' all you want. It
doesn't matter at all. What matters is what you believe and what you have
chosen to do about it.God and Satan sit at a table offering you a
job. God says "My payment is love and happiness, but I require you to not
give in to your impulses (which ALL of us have in some form or another) and do
these certain things." Satan says "Ignore him. His job isn't even
real. You have those feelings and you don't have a choice but to act on
them. For working here, I will pay you with happiness. His job is hard, that
can't be happy."I will continue again...
Continued...If we choose to be employed by God, we get paid by him
in the happiness he offered. It is hard and we will struggle, but the struggle
is only because Satan will constantly try to get us to do his work instead of
God's. Sometimes we fail and we fail big, even huge. But God's hand is
still extended to us to continue that employment and receive the gifts of
happiness He has promised us. That is a wonderful thing. It is forgiving and
charitable to us. It literally defines the meaning of the word
'mercy'. For that extended hand, we should be grateful.In
the end though, whatever choices we make- we all know what is offered from both
employers and when we receive payment we need only look to ourselves to see who
made the choices that lead there.Like the rest of us, I am reminded
every day where I have employed myself at one time or another. But depression
isn't the way God pays us. So if we are depressed because of our choices or
struggles to make them- we need only look to God to obtain that happiness.Continued...
To conclude,Satan lies, telling us we're at the bottom of the
totem pole and have no way up. What a terrible employer! Not only does he lie
about what his method of payment is, he manages to lie about everything God is
extending to us at the same time.The truth has never changed. The
table is still there and God and Satan are both still calling our names and
offering us work. All of us at some point or another have chosen the wrong line
of work, but as depressing and guilty as we feel- it is not God but Satan who
has deceived us and we have just as much power to choose God's employment
as we did when we chose Satan's. If we look at the top of a totem pole it
can seem impossible, but one decision at a time- we can choose God's
employment and be happy again.Guilt isn't bad, but simply
acknowledging our choices. I struggle to choose God's employment at length
and with great force. But without feeling guilt I will never learn to overcome
and rely on God for that payment of happiness.
donn writes: Yes, Same -sex couples, should have all the right to be temple
worthy as well as the Celestial KingdomAre you aware of the
requirements to get an LDS temple recommend?
@very concerned;You seem so sure that our lives are diametrically
'opposed' to the "gospel teachings". Are you sure? You
really don't know that, nor do you know the mind of god. FYI, sexual
orientation is not a "behavior" (but religion is).@VoR;Thanks for the sermon. Are you really, really sure that you're not
the one listening to Satan? He's the one who wants to force everyone to
live righteously and keep them from living their lives freely. He's also
the one who promotes bigotry and discrmination; I very much doubt that god
approves of that.
I love my gay family members, and am thankful for any love and compassion
extended to anyone(including drug users, who also suffer high rates of
depression). As I've studied these issues and worked with gays as a
Therapist, I've learned that caution is crucial. I do not attend pride
parades for several reasons (listed below). I've read about gay LDS
congregations, and have noted that the LDS Church policy and leadership are
already very compassionate and supportive of gay persons. These congregations
and other support groups may be the best venue to show love for gays. Reasons I personally don't attend pride parades: 1 They have
traditionally been political parades, not support parades (if you've
changed that I loudly support you). It feel it is crucial to distinguish between
supporting homosexuality and supporting gays. We must also distinguish between
supporting pregnant teens and supporting teen pregnancy; supporting polygamists
and supporting polygamy; etc. My actions will affect your children for
generations to come. Continued- Hopefully the Deseret News will let me
tell the truth about the agenda, the SL Tribune will not, and has blocked me
from civil honest comments.
@firstamendment "as a therapist/" what exactly would your license
be because there is no mental health profession that supports your line of
reasoning. Further, if you are attempting to cure homosexuality you are
violating every mental health professions code of ethics and practicing outside
your license (if you are a licensed professional).
And here we go -- chipping away a little at a time until we embrace it fully.
to: RanchHandI think my words are that *I think the homosexual behavior
is diametrically opposed to church teachings.* I think that is well-enough
documented (that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints disapproves of
homosexual behavior) that there is no need to dispute it. I think perhaps less
known is that the church says that thoughts about(or propensity toward)
homosexuality is not the sin, but acting on them is. People have
their struggles, whether it be with homosexuality, adultery, pornography, etc.
In other words, we sin differently. That is true.I will disagree
that homosexuality is not a behavior. It is a defining behavior. But I will
agree that religion, in some ways, is also a behavior. This country and the
Church was - and is - built on the premise that some behaviors are desirable and
some aren't. I applaud those who are struggling successfully to avoid (or
overcome) homosexuality. I too believe God loves ALL His children. But
personally, I don't see the doctrine changing.
Please let me qualify, whether your struggle against homosexuality is successful
at the moment or not, I still admire you for the struggle. I support and
encourage your continued struggle. The Lord loves you and will answer your
prayers. Strength will be yours if you ask for it. There are great blessings
for those who overcome their weaknesses (or the natural man). To
those who are not struggling, but who have succumbed hook, line, and sinker, and
are actively promoting the homosexual lifestyle, I would say, yes, it depends on
whether you believe in revelation as to whether you struggle or not. If there
is no God, nor God's prophet, then anything goes, and relativism reigns.
But if there is a God, and I know there is, and there is a prophet, and I know
there is, then it is necessary to follow their teachings to enjoy the
accompanying reward and avoid the negative consequences.
@very concerned;Would you agree that freedom is a desirable behavior
and discrimination is an undesirable behavior?I really don't
care what your church approves of or disapproves of; it really only applies to
members who want to keep their memberships. Nobody else is obliged in any way
to adhere to your church's rules. Sorry, but that's just the way it
is. I also don't expect your church to change it's
policy; and that is fine with me. I do expect them to butt out of other peoples
lives and bedrooms - places where they have no business being in the first
place.You might be surprised to hear about our experiences with god.
Our prayers. The answers we've gotten. You don't have all the
answers, neither does your leadership. If you believe that homosexuality is a
sin, don't do it.Homosexuality isn't a trial; dealing with
the intolerant and the self-righteous is though. Living a life of solitude,
when that is not your choice is also a trial; an unnecessary one. Why
don't you give it a shot for a few decades and see how you like it?
When I first became a flight attendant 25 years ago I had never met anyone who
was gay. I didn't even know what being gay meant. It was eye-opening to say
the least. As the years went by I realized that gay people are just like me--a
single person trying to make it in a married world or how about just trying to
make it in the world. We all laugh, cry, excell and fail. Gay people aren't
bad people. However, as a single person God holds me to the same standard that
He holds a gay person. No matter what our minds may tell us we are to live
morally clean lives. We are to practice self control in all areas of our lives
and do our best to live as God would want us to live. I now have many gay
friends but being a friend doesnt mean that I have to agree with everything my
friends do and they do not have to agree with everything I do. We respect each
other for our sameness as well as our differences. God loves us equally--He does
not, however love sin from anyone.
@Ranchhand.....it is not intolerant or self righteous to have a different
opinion than someone else....that would also extend to voting on any subject.
Sometimes people in the same household cancel each other out at the voting booth
during election time--doing so doesn't mean they are intolerant or self
righteous of the other family member. I have lived for several decades in that
so called solitude you speak of. While it is not always fun or easy, it keeps me
happy with a clear conscience. My conscience is my responsibility. If someone
else choses to live differently and give up on self control or just have
different beliefs then they are responsible for their own conscience. It is not
a tragedy to be gay or to be single our whole life. What is a tragedy is to make
covenants to God and then to willingly break them.....those who have not made
the same covenants will not judged like someone who has.....But, eventually
every knee will bow to the Savior one way or another. Before we bow, I imagine
no matter who we are or what we have done we will be lovingly embraced.
@ LDS Liberal...You're pretty gutsy with this comparison.
"The “Temple worthy Members” [Pharisees, Sadducees,
Scribes]" This judgemental attitude actually makes me feel sick.
I approve of parents supporting and loving their children with same gender
attraction. I approve of LDS members putting their arm around a person who is
open about that attraction and embracing them with full friendship and love
within the ward family and the Church. I think there is danger though in these
LDS marchers being perceived as embracing the whole LGBT agenda which
doesn't distinguish between the attraction and following through and acting
on that attraction. They definitely support gay marriage, which the LDS Church
is strictly against. While the support of these people is sweet, I believe the
whole public march thing is an unneccessary, confusing display of loyalty. LDS church leaders have discouraged those with same gender attraction
from paying too much attention to that inclination. They have discouraged them
from labeling themselves "Gay" of "Lesbian". So I think,
unfortunately, these LDS members who marched are only encouraging and
highlighting that focus on the personal struggle of these people and in a
roundabout way, making it harder on their kids and friends to put that
inclination in the background of their lives rather than the forefront. Didn't Jesus say, "Go and sin no more."
Ranchhand, the first of my comments was denied. In it I expressed that I was
addressing my comment to "Really???". I'm not saying you have no
place in the conversation, but that the point I was making would have been more
clear.I essentially argued this-We feel guilt knowing
that we've done something morally wrong. I feel guilty for my sins as do
others. But I do not blame God or the Church for that feeling, but my choices
and the man tempting me to make them. To blame people calling something a sin
for making people feel guilty neglects the possibility that 1) they are a
legitimate moral authority 2) that the question in fact is a sin and 3) that
feeling guilt may not be a bad thing.I wasn't preaching a
sermon of 'this is right' as much argue the plausibility of the LDS
Church not being wrong for calling something a sin. None of us are born with sin
but perfect in Christ. The entire point was that we're consigned only
because of the actions that we chose.Your argument is a red herring.
I haven't argued for discrimination.
I have gay family members, I love them very much, and I show my love far away
from Pride Parades. I have researched homosexual issues thoroughly and have
discovered that powerful people have been misinforming us about homosexual
issues. Pride parades are not the best way to show love for gay persons.3
reasons- 1 Check narth (including articles on gay marriage, causes of
homosexuality, activists hiding information, the gay former APA President being
threatened for telling the truth, etc) to see why I feel that those
mainstreaming homosexuality and encouraging the breakup of families (including
comment activists here, employed to "destroy" people of faith) have, in
part, led my family away from the joys of heterosexuality. 2 They
are offensive to certain religious groups- Google this article and read Jersey
Girl comments (very important history supressed by activists/liberal media):Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish IdentitySupreme Court rejects appeal
to stop offensive gay parade3 They are traditionally not supportive
of gay persons, but of a political agenda, you can show love to gay persons on a
personal level, in religious congregations, at work, in support groups
(Evergreen, narth, etc-which political pride activists try to shut down).
Years ago I knew people who would spend their Friday evenings going to parts of
town to "beat up" gay guys.I never approved of that and
still don't. I believe "marriage" should be between a man and a
woman only. I also support the church's position that partner rights and
benefits, fair housing, etc., should be had by one and all that we should be
followers of Christ.Any time anyone sees fit to demean someone else
for what ever reason, they are out of line. I don't care for orange and
will not wear it or purchase anything that is orange if I can possibly avoid it,
but I'm certainly not going to abuse someone who likes it.
Greg Iverson ought to take his family to San Francisco and watch the gay pride
parade there. A word of warning - this is usually an XXX rated event. Yes go to
the source of so-called "gay pride" and find out what the main stream
gay pride community really looks and acts like. Just remember to leave your kids
in the hotel. I think Greg would "adjust" his thinking a bit after
returning from San Fran. I have had the unfortunate luck of experiencing first
hand San Francisco gay pride. Yes God loves all his children but he does NOT
love or condone their sinful debauchery!! God does say - "if ye love me keep
my commandments". Sexual debauchery is NOT in keeping with God's
commandments (read the New Testament).
So, if I go to the Mardi Gras parade, I will be able to find out what the main
stream straight community really looks and acts like?Do not think
that parades - especially ones like Mardi Gras and SF Gay Pride symbolize
anything but a parade and sometimes brings out the wildest of characters!I think you have painted with a very broad brush all gays to equal
exactly what you saw in SF. Would you want everyone to believe that Mardi Gras
symbolizes what heterosexuals act and look like? Didn't think so.Be careful in your judging.
Why should anyone be obligated to "Love" these folks? I don't hate
them. I am polite and genuine to those I work with or, serve as customers. I
don't mock them publically or privately. But, why should I accept and or
support their actions? Homosexuality is simply wrong. Having marches, rainbow
bumperstickers, and media-driven programming isn't going to drive them to
mainstream status. If they want to act in a devient manner in the privacy of
their own residences, fine. But, don't expect that the majority of
Americans to roll out the red carpet.
@RanchHandI know this won't make any difference.But
I can't stand idly by and let your statement stand.You can
believe whatever you want. If you want to make up your own rules, because they
make sense to you, then you are free to do so. Fortunately, there are eternal
truths that can't be altered or changed no matter what you believe. Imagine for a moment if we all wanted to change the physical laws around
us? I decided one day that I don't like gravity. Or that I'm tired of
getting old and I don't want to die. Or I'm tired of rain. There would
be serious chaos, right? These laws cannot be altered or changed.God
has also determined that there needs to be laws and rules concerning our
behavior. There is such thing as right and wrong. Man cannot alter these or
change them, no matter how he feels at that time in history. If not, chaos will
result. Nobody would dispute that our world is in serious chaos. There is no sin in having homosexual tendencies, but to ACT out those
tendencies is what's wrong.
So will the hate speech from the LGBT community stop about LDS people? Or are
they going to continue to try and stir the pot (like the two men that went on
temple square drunk, and when asked to leave they refused and then claimed it
was discrimination rather than their inappropriate behavior)?Does
this mean that comments such as all LDS people are closed minded, intolerant,
racists etc end?I hear alot from the LGBT community demanding
tolerance and acceptance, but, you hear very little from the LGBT community
talking about how they need to improve their attitude and accept that people are
different than them.It's not just one side that needs to be
tolerant, it needs to come from all sides.
I am glad that active LDS are showing their love for LGBT people. Why was this
ever in question? I have been an active LDS for nearly 12 years now, and all I
have ever heard from the pulpit (in my ward, at GC, etc.) has been a message of
love for those with same gender attraction. It is the sinful acts that are
committed that the Church takes issue with. These are two separate issues.
Just in case anyone was wondering, the Church also takes issue with
heterosexuals who are not legally and lawfully married to each other engaging in
sexual activity; pornography; polygamy; pedophilia; beastiality; lying,
cheating, stealing, jealousy/envy, etc. The Church takes a stand against all of
these sins, not just homosexual acts.Also, the Church stands for marriage
between one man and one woman. This is seen as essential for entering the
Kingdom of God, and to hold and defend this view is our right. We should not be
persecuted when we, as fellow citizens of this country, express our beliefs and
act politically to defend them.