The sad thing about all of this, not necessarily Lyman just the whole
"teacher/student and adult youth" relationship thing is that it is very
hard for an adult to have a close relationship with a student or young person
any longer. When I was a young teenager there was a lady that lived near us that
kinda took me under her wing and cared for me. She didn't replace my
parents or anything like that she was simply kind to me and mentored me, she
took an interest in me for whatever reason and just showed me that she actually
cared about me. No one thought anything of it either because there was no reason
to think there was anything wrong or strange about it. She was just a kind lady
that cared.But that is a hard thing to do now days and it is because
there have been so many instances of inappropriate behavior by so many adults.
Maybe it was always there? I don't know I never experienced anything like
that, but I still find it sad that an adult can't put their arm around a
kid they care about without risk.
Bottom line, teachers need to keep students at arms length. Age does not
matter. Sex of the student does not matter. Lyman appears to have forgotten
that. Yes, he's not being procecuted. So what? Teachers have
relationships with students. Their behavior should be professional at all times
and those relationships shouldn't extend outside of the classroom/athletic
field. Being friendly with students is ok, but the appropriateness of the
friendship should be paramount to the teacher. Lyman is a handsome dude. The
chicks will dig him. He has to take greater pains to keep it at arms length than
others. That's his cross to bear. When in doubt, stay away.
While I hope Coach Lyman is completely innocent why is it that so many of you
just assume that is the case? It is pretty obvious that something occured and
just because it didn't rise to the level of criminal doesn't mean it
wasn't inappropriate. And if it wasn't inappropriate then why would at
least 2 different girls claim it was? Why do you simply assume they are the ones
lying? Why would they lie about it? Even if they were willing participants it
still doesn't make it appropriate.Teachers absolutely should be
held to a higher standard when it comes to relationships with their students, or
students at their schools. We have had far to many of them over the last several
years caught having very seriously wrong relationships with students to simply
dismiss the idea and proclaim that there is nothing to it. For coach
Lyman's part the resignation does not look good and his attorney's
comments were very cryptic and not at all exonerating. Once again just because
something isn't "illegal" doesn't make it appropriate.
I wish Coach Lyman good luck, and I hope he can successfully rid himself of this
cloud of suspicion. Why do some always "believe" the worst before the
evidence is ALL in? Utah young, male teachers need to be on guard at ALL times!
They have NO idea what may be going on in the minds of some of their adolescent
female students. Keep your classroom doors open at ALL times. Never be alone
with ANY students. And NEVER think that your students are your friends. A wise
principal once told me concerning students, "You can be with them, but You
cannot be one of them!"Coach Lyman, hold your head up high and
move on. I wish you success in your future!
Re: Midwest MomCouldn't agree more. Don't know why anyone
would want to go into teaching in Utah.Not to rehash the Wong case
from Timpview....but not only did he get rail roaded, it was done to him by
jealous adults on the school board that resigned right after. Adults are a
problem too, not just18 years old girls. The Utah Education System needs a
major overhaul from the top down. Many great teachers in a bad system.Both cases are a shame.
@Springville Poet..."One other small thing: The girl being 18
has nothing to do with anything. A teacher is in a position of authority, and
high school students cannot legally consent to a sexual relationship while
students."Being 18 has everything to do with it. Legally the
girl can consent to have sexual relationships with whomever she wants, as long
as the other person is over 18 also. This is why there was no legal case against
Josh. I am also not sure if the district really had any case for
dismissal either. When I was in high school I had two different teachers who
were over 30 and married girls that were still in high school. One married his
own daughters best friend. We all talked about it and thought it was wierd, but
there was never any questioning by the district, or anyone else. And yes, it was
here is good ol Salt Lake. If they are both legal consenting adults,
there is really nothing the district can do either unless the activity was on
I don't know why anyone would want to go into education in Utah. The
community wants to much, for so little compensation. Heaven help you, if
you're a young, male teacher. In my experience, inappropriate contact is a
two-way street and tough to prove who initiated the encounter. There are a lot
of predatory young girls who like a challenge. I wish this young man well and
hope that he can put his unfortunate experience in education behind him.
So, where does he go to get his reputation back, and who will pay all the money
that his lawyer is charging to defend him?It is far too easy to make
accusations, and far too few consequences for false accusations.
What surprises me is how many people are rushing to the side of the coach here,
talking about the fine line between innocence or guilt. This forum is usually
pretty tough on teachers. Where are those who regularly smear the teaching
profession? Why are there no voices pointing to the low standards of people who
teach and the sub-standard educational system in the state? Could this sudden
swing in attitude and support have anything to do with Josh Lyman being a
football coach---a sport revered in Utah almost as much as it is in Texas? You
know, if it was a history or math teacher accused of this behavior, there would
not be this level of support on the DN forum.That's some double
standard. For the record, I am in favor of innocent until proven
guilty, but it seems obvious the resignation was timed to eliminate the
investigation, regardless of the legalities of the situation. One
other small thing: The girl being 18 has nothing to do with anything. A
teacher is in a position of authority, and high school students cannot legally
consent to a sexual relationship while students.
Duckunter, you are really bad at witch hunting, better stick to ducks.
I can understand why he resigned from the school district and why he
wouldn't want to go into teaching. Best of luck to you coach. I hope you
can find some peace.
Cottonwood Administration, I think there is a coach available from Utah County
who won a bunch of state titles, I think he could bring several to Salt Lake
County if one can look past a few things.
@fenderYou are correct, after reading it again the girl claimed it
was inapproriate and the D.A. simply said there was contact although not
criminal. But if there was "contact" then what was it? Coach Lyman at
1st claimed there wasn't any contact at all but there are actually 2 girls
that claim he had "inappropriate contact" with both of them. I have
stated before it the contact was simply a reassuring arm around the shoulder or
something on that level then this entire thing is a farce but the fact the D.A.
didn't claim it was "innocent", the district has certainly never
said it was that simple level of contact, and the girls are definately claiming
it was greater than that, tells me there is more to it.Now
considering these girls were both "of age" it would not be criminal for
coach Lyman to have "inappropriate contact" with either of them, hence
the D.A. declining to press charges. But that doesn't make what he did
right or proper. I do not believe that the school or district would allow this
to go this far if there was nothing to it.
To me, a young woman makes fake allegations to a man with no record and flips
his world upside down should be a crime. Good luck to Coach. I hope he lands on
his feet and moves forward.
Duckhunter, please find the quote where the DA said it was
"inappropriate". That quote does not exist. The DA simply said evidence
of contact, no where did he say it was inappropriate.The district
had previously stated they wanted clear resolution either way. That is probably
impossible for him to do. If they fired him, they would have had to prove
misconduct. If they had kept it on, the community would have demanded they found
him "innocent". (Tho everyone agrees no crime was committed.)I imagine this is the best compromise for him and the district. It does not
imply he is guilty of anything. He wasn't even charged with a crime.
@Duckhunter - If the D.A. made the statement that the contact was inappropriate
and if that is correct I agree with you. However we frequently hear district
attorney's make claims that are not proven in court. Also the DA's
comment may simply be based on the girl's story and not on the
investigation of the case.This one has been strange from start to finish
and only the parties involved know what, if anything, really happened.
DuckMight want to re-read this article and the prior one having to
do with the DA's statement.The female student said there was
"inappropriate" contact, not the DA. Here's what the DA said:
"The information presented in the investigation provided evidence of contact
between the student and Lyman. However, the evidence did not support the
conclusion that a crime was committed by Lyman against the student."The DA's job, as I told you once before, is simply to ascertain if
a crime has been committed, not pass a moral judgment.
The D.A. said the contact between the coach and the girl was
"inappropriate". It doesn't really matter at that point if it was
"illegal" because the standard for being a teacher and coach is higher
than just legality. Lotsa things are inappropriate that are not illegal so while
a person may not be prosecuted for them he can, and should, lose his job over
them. I don't think it is illegal to show up at your job intoxicated, but
it is inappropriate and it will probably get you fired. It also isn't
illegal to use profanity at work but it is inappropriate and can get you
fired.Since he has resigned it is over but it certainly makes it
appear that the D.A. was correct and what he did was wrong. He probably should
have resigned when it all came to light.
AZ BlueRather naive really for you to assume that it's so
simple. It may well be impossible to determine what really happened in this
case. Are you advocating that officials flip a coin to decide the matter? The
DA has not been able to find evidence to substantiate the allegations against
the coach, so at this point basic fairness says Coach Lyman gets benefit of all
doubt. The man should be allowed to move on without a cloud over his head.On the other hand, the decision not to take action against the coach
doesn't necessarily mean the young woman involved is lying. Without
evidence one way or the other, what exactly are the officials supposed to do?
Had the media not smeared names all over the community, and allowed a quiet
investigation to move forward, if the coach was innocent, the event
wouldn't have destroyed his teaching career, and if guilty, it would have
destroyed him in the end, anyway. But because of the Media's hunt for a
"story", it destroyed him even if innocent.Why does the
media have to destroy lives before guilt or innocence is proven, or even
investigated, just to get a "scoop?"
Good Luck Coach,Seems things were already in place for the program
to go in another direction anyhow. Glad the case is done with and coach can find
a team, recruit his own players and test himself!
AZ Blue, please reread the article. The DA, Sim Gill, said there was no
criminal conduct. The only other thing could be rescinding his teaching
credential if there was conduct which violated state education codes. IF it
were a kiss, pure stupidity. She is an adult and this creates the gray area.
Had an administrator a neighboring school district accuses of sexual
advances towards two girls he was planning on removing from the cheer leading
squad for drinking at a school sponsored activity. He was placed on
administrative leave and not until the day before the trial (when they would
have to testify under oath) did the two girls finally confess that he had done
nothing wrong. They didn't want to be kicked off the cheer leading team,
so they went home and concocted the story. Ruined his career in the state. He
did get a nice settlement from the district and the parents. District failed to
do their due diligence.
To AZ Blue & Red: maybe it was just a kiss. Certainly inappropriate
contact, but not worthy of prosecution. It is possible that the girl is telling
the truth, but that the inappropriate contact would not qualify as criminal.
Why does it have to be all or nothing? And what discipline would you suggest if
they just held hands under a table (which would also be considered inappropriate
contact)? He has resigned, without any of us knowing all, or any of the facts,
except those given to us by the media. And how are you so sure there is an
innocent person? If she was a willing participant (she was 18) she is not
innocent. Save your righteous indignation for another topic.
Am I the only one that feels that this still needs to be resolved? Something is
not right here. As I stated before if he acted inappropriately then disciplinary
action and or criminal action needs to be applied. HOWEVER on the other hand if
the girl is making up stories very quick and stern punishment needs to be
applied to her. She needs to be dismissed from school and as far as I am
concerned criminal charges need to be applied here as well. I am
not sure who is at fault here but either way swift and harsh action needs to be
taken. This must be stopped on both sides. Per this article now that he has
resigned it looks like all is well in Zion and we all move on. Sorry but this
is not done and needs to be resolved. Discipline the guilty party to the
fullest extent based on the inappropriate action whoever is at blame. Do not
sweep it under the carpet. It will only come back and haunt you again. Not
fair to the innocent person here.