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Comments about ‘Do Mormons really want recognition as a 'mainstream' religion?’

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Published: Wednesday, May 23 2012 9:36 a.m. MDT

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antodav
TAMPA, FL

Nothing about me throughout the entire course of my life has ever been what others would call "common", "ordinary", or "mainstream". I am happy that my religion is not so either, and I would not want it any other way.

SparkyVA
Winchester, VA

The words of the Prophets are third level scriptures if you will. First level are the accepted scriptures, second level are those books published by the quorum of the 12 (i.e. Jesus the Christ). These have been vetted (knowing that there are a few issues with translation). The words of the prophets are below that until they are elevated to scripture as we have seen in the last few sections of the D&C. It is a process of seeing how they hold up with time. The Proclamation on Marriage is one such document that may, over time, be elevated to scripture.
That said, the teachings of the Prophets is replete with their wisdom which is generally much better than our own and should be respected. And there are times when what they say is due to a plain and direct revelation. During the invasion of Buchanan's Army Pres. Young gave a fiery speech about fighting. In the afternoon he got up and said "This morning you heard Brigham Young, Thus saith the Lord" and completely reversed himself. If you have ever received personal revelation, you will understand the difference between your best solution, and the Lord's.

sigmund5
Salt Lake City, UT

Will Mormonism give up the insistence that people say that the myth stuff about Laminites etc. has no historical or scientific basis? This is the 21st Century will the 19th Century elements of the religion going to be given up? Will the church stop creating propaganda and complicated apologia that any reasonable person knows is a sham and can't muster the mental gymnastic ability to hold onto? Will the church be able to move onto a mytho-poetic notion of religion and not the bury your rational mind in the sand and listen to the old white men?

RAB
Bountiful, UT

The problem with going mainstream is that the mainstream always gets it wrong.

@ Thinkman

Wrong.

1.Priesthood for blacks was not about pleasing the world. God waited to give black men the priesthood until black men began demanding their civil rights.

2.Temple ordinances are not supposed to be known outside the most worthy membership. The changes were made only to eliminate misunderstandings among members.

3.Lorenzo Snow’s expression about man’s godhood is thoroughly embraced by the church. Unfortunately, the church is forced underemphasize all things that are grossly overemphasized and publicly misrepresented by the opponents of the church.

4 and 5 The church is forced overemphasize all things that are underemphasized and publicly misrepresented by opponents of the church.

@ Brahmabull and LValfre

You are right that people maybe are just thinking God told them to do things. However, I love my kids and therefore I make sure to guide them from harm and towards wisdom. A loving God would do no less for us. Regardless of our imperfections, He would STILL select the wisest and most receptive of us and provide guidance for us through them.

sigmund5
Salt Lake City, UT

@RAB "God waited to give black men the priesthood until black men began demanding their civil rights. " is an interesting explanation. Even tho justifying racism in this way is interesting in terms of logic I guess it is better than the complete silence from the church on why racism was such an essential part of church history.

sigmund5
Salt Lake City, UT

@Moonton "Let them have their prosperity theology, scandals, private jets and lavish lifestyle" Have you been to the new 2 BILLION dollar church mall in SLC? Mormonism in Utah is VErY much into the prosperity gospel. It is all about money as a sign of grace and the importance of making money and buying and consuming to keep up with the Joneses. No other mainstream church would dare use 2 Billion dollars to build an alter to upper middle class conspicuous consumption.

Kazbert
VAIL, AZ

Quote from the article: "If Mormons think of themselves as another Christian denomination, the risk of defection rises."

The real fear amongst our fellow Christian sects is just the opposite, namely that if they endorse the perception that Mormons are just "another Christian denomination," then there could be many more "defections" to Mormonism.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

@ Demiurge

Wrong. From the earthly mortal perspective in which the Bible was written (the only perspective that matters in this life), LDS church members believe the same as all Christians do--that to mankind, God is both omnipotent and omnipresent. We worship no God except Him. LDS beliefs about God’s actual form and nature are quite irrelevant with respect to this life, which is why such beliefs are rarely emphasized. The only people who find such doctrines meaningful are people who use them as a weapon for devaluing Mormon Christianity.

@ sigmund5

Somehow I doubt that the arrival of the 21st century automatically erased the ample evidence that the Book of Mormon events could have taken place.

Grossly overstated blanket accusations with regards to racism among Mormons are just vindictive and meaningless. Though I’m sure they must exist, I never knew a Mormon who wantonly mistreated blacks. You seem to conveniently forget that the deadly persecution of the Mormons in Missouri was almost entirely in response to their lack of support for slavery. And City Creek Cneter--an investment in improving downtown Salt Lake. Not about money.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@RAB
"God waited to give black men the priesthood until black men began demanding their civil rights. "

1978 was over a decade after the civil rights act was passed.

"You seem to conveniently forget that the deadly persecution of the Mormons in Missouri was almost entirely in response to their lack of support for slavery. "

Even if that were accurate for Missouri (I'm skeptical that it was "almost entirely" the reason, I believe it was a minor reason) it wouldn't explain their issues in free states like Illinois or the fact that the RLDS church which stayed behind didn't seem to have the same level of problems which suggests to me that polygamy was the largest cause of problems.

sigmund5
Salt Lake City, UT

@RAB What do you consider ample evidence? I know of no historical, anthropological or scientific evidence for any such civilizations. No artifacts certainly have not been found.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

@RAB: You seem to find a way to rationalize most everything. If someone in the church were to say the moon is a cube you would find a way to belive it. It is easy to understand how one can find many wonderful things to love and enjoy in the Mormon church, but get real.

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

@sigmund5 ... No, never been to Utah. Mall sounds nice, though. I suspect its put a lot of people to work. And of course mainline churches would do the same, only they'd do it with money tithed to God. Jim Bakker went to prison for that very reason. Look at some of the mansions owned by the television preachers. Again, money tithed to God.

But look now. To an anti-Mormon, any argument however strained will do, and there isn't any reasoning with them. The people here who criticize the Church because of polygamy 100+ (!) years ago would have NO problem if their non-Mormon neighbor had 4 or 5 live-ins. "To each their own ... unless you're Mormon." Those would decry a history of alleged racism wouldn't dream of living in a minority neighborhood, or of sending their kids to their schools.

And how many critics of the Church and that mall shop there?

Forget what a person says about his/her beliefs, and watch how they live. That's where the anti's fall short.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

RE: Moontan: You state: Forget what a person says about his/her beliefs, and watch how they live. That's where the anti's fall short. Your thinking is extremlly superficial if not insane. Do you realize from your Mormon point of veiw the anti's are over 99.9% of the world population. And there is no information or prove that Mormons are better behaved than the rest of the world. We all need to try harder. I hope you are a good example.

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

Skeptic ... anti = 'against; hostile to.' That's not 99.9% of the world. Its probably not even .9%. Try again.

Demiurge
San Diego, CA

You use the same words, RAB, but they don't mean the same thing at all. What you worship is not what the Jews worship, nor is what the Christians worship. The Islamic and Jewish gods are close. Not a weapon, but a fundamental truth and I'm an atheist. Mealy mouthed phrases with qualifications you could drive a truck through - "that to mankind, God is both omnipotent and omnipresent" - merely show that in fact you don't believe what they do.

Semper Fi
Bakersfield, CA

When pigs fly... When hell freezes over...

Wait? Is there a nicer way to say it? Well, if the site monitors are off today, this explains all the off-topic, personal attacks going on here.

I hope these ideas are not from mainstream Mormons, because these are just bizarre. But if you want a bizarre theology, it's all yours. And it has been since 1830. Polygamy, polytheism, pagan/Masonic oaths...

You want mainstream, get mainstreamed. You want excluded, stay exclusive. Just stop showing up on my doorstep with free books that my church uses, reads from weekly, believes in, and will die for. Smiley boys on bikes who can't explain their way out of the OT temple worship being about sacrifices and NOT marriage ceremonies, will never be mainstreamed.

You tossed polygamy, exclusive all-white priesthood, and Masonic rituals. Just go all the way and come into the Tent of Christianity....

or not. But you're not coming in with your own definitions, your new revelations, and your total revision of God's Word. Call it anything you want. But you're not redefining our God, our Book, our Gospel.

Joggle
Clearfield, UT

@Moontan

ANTI also means....one that is opposed or a person who is opposed to a particular practice, party, policy, action, etc. . People of different beliefs and religions would be opposed to Mormonism because they don't believe the same thus that high percentage can apply. You are wrong! Try again!

With that being said....I've come to believe that Mormons use the term "Anti-Mormon" way too liberally. It seems to me that it's sometimes so overused that it's lost it's real meaning. In some cases, I think it's used to dismiss sincere and legitimate concerns that members and non-members have about Mormonism. I think that often the use of the term "anti-Mormon" reflects more upon the user than it does upon the person or statement being described. All too often, people within the Church exhibit a persecution complex in labeling anything other than effusive praise as "anti-Mormon." For me, the only thing which would qualify as anti-Mormon are malicious mischaracterization of Church doctrine or history in an attempt to discredit the Church, however, often simply disagreeing with many aspects of the Church is falsely interpreted as anti-Morman!

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

Joggle .... Re "People of different beliefs and religions would be opposed to Mormonism because they don't believe the same thus that high percentage can apply."

Not true at all. There is a difference between opposition and disagreement. I'd agree that probably 99.9% of folks disagree with LDS doctrine, but only a small and insignificant percentage classify as "anti-Mormon." One can disagree without being offensive or insulting about it. I've never been to a Muslim website and criticized believers or the Koran, for example. I respect Muslims. I have no need to attack their faith, as you see several anti-Mormons doing here.

When I use the word 'anti' I mean exactly that. Hostile to. Those who have a need to insult Mormons here ... with harsh comments about Joseph, the Book of Mormon, the Church, etc. There are perfectly acceptable ways to voice disagreement with each of those; and there are perfectly offensive and cruel ways to do so, too. If those who disagree with Mormonism absolutely MUST visit here to comment, at least they could be polite about it.

An added treat would be if they could offer a new argument.

A Scientist
Provo, UT

Moontan,

LDS Doctrine teaches that the Church will roll forth and consume the whole earth; that the church is currently just ecclesiastical, but will someday (soon?) be "both political and ecclesiastical, and will have worldwide jurisdiction in political realms" (Bible Dictionary); and that "they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people".

Does the fact that I refuse to bow to your Church's god, and your Church's leaders and your Church's authority, even and especially when it is political, make me "anti-Mormon"?

If so, I accept the title proudly.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

RE: Moontan:
Try and be fair about others interest in the Mormon people and their history. Read the Mormon doctrine and you will learn that for the most part it is not non-Mormons (or as you refer to as antis) that shut out or oppose Mormons. It is the Mormon doctrine that shouts the alarm and challenge that; you are with us or you are against us, you can not be elevated to the celestial kingdom if you are not Mormon and one of us. This is a source of the problem. Mormons think they are superior to everyone else, naturally this going to cause some push back.

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